Ongoing Soccer Thread

[SPCotter]

Sounds a bit doom and gloom, but I genuinely think - especially as it's probable Liverpool will lose Gerrard and Torres, + others that they will struggle to finish in the top half next season, and may even find themselves in a relegation battle, become the next Leeds Utd. The club looks in freefall.

 

[Gesshoo]

Sounds a bit doom and gloom, but I genuinely think - especially as it's probable Liverpool will lose Gerrard and Torres, + others that they will struggle to finish in the top half next season, and may even find themselves in a relegation battle, become the next Leeds Utd. The club looks in freefall.

Errr - just a tad! I have seen the team rise and fall over 40+ years with various managers, players, etc. etc.

I remember back to a football show on Granada playing "The Party's Over" in the late 70's as we were slumping.....when we won the league 5 months later the Kop's anthem was "How's the party going now?"

As Ian will testify, the club is always bigger than a manager, player or owner.

I do not see Gerrard or Torres leaving this year. Whoever owns or manages the club is still, ultimately, responsible to the fans. I'll be interested to see what the likes of Rogan Taylor makes of all this. I like many thousands of others have provisionally signed on to the scheme to eventually buy the club out, a la Barca.

One day.....hopefully soon.

 

[SPCotter]

Dunno, the bookies must have some good tips with the odds they're giving particularly for Gerrard, Torres and Benayoun to follow Rafa out the door. If the club doesn't get sold sharpish, I can't see how they're not going to freefall.

Last summer was the optimum time to either strengthen or sell up, 2nd in the league, ran Utd close, backbone of Gerrard, Torres, Alonso and Mascherano, players would have been falling over themselves to join Liverpool if only Rafa had been given a decent sum of money to play with - whether he would have spent it wisely is another matter.

I just can't see with the state of the ownership why top players or a top manager for that matter would want to join Liverpool this summer. I don't think Liverpool will actually get relegated, but I think 250/1 is a bit generous!

 

[Gesshoo]

I'll take some of that 250:1.

I was thinking about this last night. With the right manager to give the team confidence and not make odd-ball decisions about selection and substitutions, this is a pretty solid looking team.

Reina
Johnson
Agger
Carragher
Insua
Mascherano
Benayoun
Aquilani
Kuyt
Gerrard
Torres

4-1-4-1 formation.

Basically, back 4 with Mascerano in front, playing strictly defensively and breaking down attacks, winning the ball back. This also frees up the central defenders to cover the full backs knowing Mascherano is in front of them.

Midfield 4, all with licence to attack and roam in support of Torres - especially Gerrard and Kuyt.

Johnson, Insua and Agger can also support the attack, but Carragher and Mascherano are strictly defensive - neither of them could hit a barn door from 5 feet anyway.

Lucas subs for Mascherano. Rodriguez subs for Benayoun. Skrtel/Kyriagos for the central defenders. We still need a GOOD 2nd striker to support and/or sub for Torres.

Otherwise it is a pretty good team IMO. Certainly not 250:1 when basically the same team finished a close 2nd a year ago.

 

[SPCotter]

Just shows what a few injuries and Alonso leaving can do.

Sure that's a good team you've listed, I just can't see Gerrard, Torres and Mascherano staying, with maybe a few more following, and then it will be left to a new manager with little money available struggling to build a team around Aquilani. The Leeds, West Ham and Newcastle teams that went down in the past 10 years or so were not lacking in quality respective to the other teams in the bottom half of the table, but were seriously lacking in togetherness and organisation.

I got my fiver on at 250/1 today at Ladbrokes

 

[S93]

I'll take some of that 250:1.

I was thinking about this last night. With the right manager to give the team confidence and not make odd-ball decisions about selection and substitutions, this is a pretty solid looking team.

Reina
Johnson
Agger
Carragher
Insua
Mascherano
Benayoun
Aquilani
Kuyt
Gerrard
Torres

4-1-4-1 formation.

Basically, back 4 with Mascerano in front, playing strictly defensively and breaking down attacks, winning the ball back. This also frees up the central defenders to cover the full backs knowing Mascherano is in front of them.

Midfield 4, all with licence to attack and roam in support of Torres - especially Gerrard and Kuyt.

Johnson, Insua and Agger can also support the attack, but Carragher and Mascherano are strictly defensive - neither of them could hit a barn door from 5 feet anyway.

Lucas subs for Mascherano. Rodriguez subs for Benayoun. Skrtel/Kyriagos for the central defenders. We still need a GOOD 2nd striker to support and/or sub for Torres.

Otherwise it is a pretty good team IMO. Certainly not 250:1 when basically the same team finished a close 2nd a year ago.

Agreed. This team is capable with the right man in charge and the wright motivation.

No1 priority in transfers this summer is a leftback(doesnt matter if its a back up or a starter. Having just Insua isnt enough now that Aurelio has left) and a back up/suport striker.
I would also like to see Pacheco,Nemeth,Kelly,Spearing,Ecelstone and the other promising youngsters geting a bigger role.
Like last season when Degan and Voronin where starting/on the bench, why not have a talented youngster there instead?
Gives them experience and hopefully improves there game and its not like Degan is world class or anything....

 

[Gesshoo]

Yeah, I agree 100% about the youngsters. Carragher, Gerrard, Fowler, Owen all came through the ranks. I saw Nemeth play last pre-season and he scored a couple of really nice goals then went out on loan for the season when we really needed some choices up front.

 

[blacksun]

Agreed. This team is capable with the right man in charge and the wright motivation.

No1 priority in transfers this summer is a leftback(doesnt matter if its a back up or a starter. Having just Insua isnt enough now that Aurelio has left) and a back up/suport striker.
I would also like to see Pacheco,Nemeth,Kelly,Spearing,Ecelstone and the other promising youngsters geting a bigger role.
Like last season when Degan and Voronin where starting/on the bench, why not have a talented youngster there instead?
Gives them experience and hopefully improves there game and its not like Degan is world class or anything....

Whilst I concur with the philosophy of using the youth more, there were numerous reasons Rafa didnt. Firstly he had just gone very close to winning the title and was expected to run close again, using youngsters early on would have been a foolish risk at that point. Once it was obvious we werent gonna compete for the title, finishing 4th and getting into the CL was the priority so again not the time to be taking chances with the kids.
Once it became clear that 4th was not gonna happen there was good reasons Rafa didnt play the kids, Pacheco was away with the Spanish youth teams as much as he was at Anfield, Kelly was injured on and off ever since his impressive game V Lyon, Nemeth had been sent out on loan to get 1st team experience at the start of the season and was injured almost much as Torres this year so he wouldnt have got much game time even had he stayed, Spearing just isnt good enough, found his level at Leicester and I wish him well as he has only ever been a good servant/fan of the club, Ecclestone went to Huddersfield for last 3 months of the season to get game time but despite a decent couple of games at the start couldnt get back into a decent form side in Div 1 is that really suggesting hes good enough yet for a top 4 team in the PL?

For all the critics of Rafa, and yes I have had my complaints about him at certain times for certain things, it seems to be often ignored hes had to do a hard job in terrible circumstances with the current owners. I have just one question tho, if hes such a poor manager why are the current CL champions, Italian champions and cup holders about to sign him when they could have any manager in the world right now?

 

[S93]

I have just one question tho, if hes such a poor manager why are the current CL champions, Italian champions and cup holders about to sign him when they could have any manager in the world right now?

Any one that calls Rafa a bad manager has obvs never seen a football.
His acomplishments at Valencia and the CL and FA cup wins with Liverpool speak for them selfs, as does the fact that he managed 2nd last season with a much smaller budget and squad then Chelsea and Man Utd.

If Liverpool would have have had non-scumbag owners and Gerrard and Torres wouldnt have had major injury issues he might have achived good things this season, we will never now.

I hope Rafa succedes at Inter(if that where he ends up) because despite the fact that he maked mind boggling disucsions(imo) at times he was still great manager for Liverpool that allways seem to do his best for the club and brought the club some great moments,players and the CL!

 

[Gesshoo]

He is obviously not a bad manager, nor was Gerard Houllier. Rafa was unlucky with the owners, but he didn't do himself or the club any favours by having an on-off running battle with the owners for 3 years. he may not have got the funds he wanted but he did get a lot of money to spend. he just didn't always spend it very well.

I know everyone makes bad decisions, but he always seemed to be complaining that he didn't have enough to spend, when in truth I think they gave him a reasonable amount of money on a few occasions.

There are only 2 players left from when he took over - Carragher & Gerrard. So this team is undoubtedly of his making. But the likes of Dossena, Babel, Keane, Crouch, Bellamy, Pennant, Voronin, Arbeloa, Aurelio, El Zhar, Ngog, Riera, etc. represent money poorly spent in most cases. But the 100 million or so he has spent on the current first 11 isn't a bad deal at all.

For me one of the biggest frustrations was his obstinacy - playing Gerrard out of position for his first 2 seasons, his endless patience with Babel and Lucas, then his total lack of patience with the likes of Benayoun, who plays his heart out, and Crouch and Keane, when we were crying out for someone to play with Torres. I firmly believe we would have won the league last year had we kept Keane....but we'll never know.

 

[S93]

There are only 2 players left from when he took over - Carragher & Gerrard. So this team is undoubtedly of his making. But the likes of Dossena, Babel, Keane, Crouch, Bellamy, Pennant, Voronin, Arbeloa, Aurelio, El Zhar, Ngog, Riera, etc. represent money poorly spent in most cases. But the 100 million or so he has spent on the current first 11 isn't a bad deal at all.

Not really disagreing with u, mostly just thinking out load.
Dossena-Yeah he was rubbish,but goals against RM and United will be remembered. So I agree, bad buy.

Babel-Came highly rated, has the skilz but seems like his focus/comitment is off. Expensive and hasnt proven worthy (yet). We wont know if he was a bad purchase until 1-2 years from now, but boy is he frustrating.

Keane-Couldnt score to save his life, plays every week.
Scores in back to back games and is looking fresh, better ship him back to London.
Bizzaro transfer if I ever saw one. Bad transfer but probably not because of the player but because of Rafa.

Crouch- Slow start but scored goals and I would have liked keeping him.
Rafa said the only way he could have keeped him is giving him a pay raise which the owners refused. Good buisness imo, sold for a profit.

Bellamy- Sold to raise money for Torres. Cant argue with that.
Mad as hell but did play well at times.

Pennant and Voroninn- Rubbish the pair of them.

Arbeloa- Great purchase and never should have sold him. Is playing great at left back for RM and that was a trouble postion for Liverpool this season.
Even if Glen was coming in keeping Arbeloa and playing him left back/back up at right back would have been great imo.

Aurellio-Came for free and has performed great imo. To bad he is made of glass.

El-Zhar- Signed for cheap as a teenager but hasnt developed enough.

N´Gog- I still think he has potential.

Rierra- Decent player but goes missing from time to time. To bad he cant keep his mouth shut.


Not all bad transfers imo. Couple of great and some big flops aswell.

 

[blacksun]

Not really disagreing with u, mostly just thinking out load.
Dossena-Yeah he was rubbish,but goals against RM and United will be remembered. So I agree, bad buy.

Babel-Came highly rated, has the skilz but seems like his focus/comitment is off. Expensive and hasnt proven worthy (yet). We wont know if he was a bad purchase until 1-2 years from now, but boy is he frustrating.

Keane-Couldnt score to save his life, plays every week.
Scores in back to back games and is looking fresh, better ship him back to London.
Bizzaro transfer if I ever saw one. Bad transfer but probably not because of the player but because of Rafa.

Crouch- Slow start but scored goals and I would have liked keeping him.
Rafa said the only way he could have keeped him is giving him a pay raise which the owners refused. Good buisness imo, sold for a profit.

Bellamy- Sold to raise money for Torres. Cant argue with that.
Mad as hell but did play well at times.

Pennant and Voroninn- Rubbish the pair of them.

Arbeloa- Great purchase and never should have sold him. Is playing great at left back for RM and that was a trouble postion for Liverpool this season.
Even if Glen was coming in keeping Arbeloa and playing him left back/back up at right back would have been great imo.

Aurellio-Came for free and has performed great imo. To bad he is made of glass.

El-Zhar- Signed for cheap as a teenager but hasnt developed enough.

N´Gog- I still think he has potential.

Rierra- Decent player but goes missing from time to time. To bad he cant keep his mouth shut.


Not all bad transfers imo. Couple of great and some big flops aswell.

Agree with most of those comments, will also add both Crouch and Arbeloa wanted to go so Rafa had a choice sell them when he did or lose them for nothing a year later.
Add to that Keane and Dossena didnt cost as much as people seem to think, both scored goals and contributed to our best season since 1990 and ended up costing us about 3m each. Keane cost Harry Redknapp 15m and has spent the last 3-4 months of the season on loan at Celtic and Spuds will be lucky to get 8m for him now.
Babel/El Zhar/Riera/Ngog would all make the money back or a small profit on what Rafa spent on them so hardly awful signings.
Pennant is the only real massive flop in terms of money at 7.5m and its well known he was the last resort when the board put the block on Rafa trying to sign Alves/Simao etc.
What I love when Rafa's transfer activity is questioned, is how Ferguson has made miles worse signings during the same time, Hargreaves 18m, Anderson 16m, Nani 16m, Toksic 8m to name just a few.

 

[S93]

Agree with most of those comments, will also add both Crouch and Arbeloa wanted to go so Rafa had a choice sell them when he did or lose them for nothing a year later.
Add to that Keane and Dossena didnt cost as much as people seem to think, both scored goals and contributed to our best season since 1990 and ended up costing us about 3m each. Keane cost Harry Redknapp 15m and has spent the last 3-4 months of the season on loan at Celtic and Spuds will be lucky to get 8m for him now.
Babel/El Zhar/Riera/Ngog would all make the money back or a small profit on what Rafa spent on them so hardly awful signings.
Pennant is the only real massive flop in terms of money at 7.5m and its well known he was the last resort when the board put the block on Rafa trying to sign Alves/Simao etc.
What I love when Rafa's transfer activity is questioned, is how Ferguson has made miles worse signings during the same time, Hargreaves 18m, Anderson 16m, Nani 16m, Toksic 8m to name just a few.

Djembe Djembe(sp?) also makes voronin and Degan look like superstars.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

Eric Djemba-Djemba, so crap they named him twice.

Anyway, a lot of Liverpool's problems could be solved by the simple step of getting a competent second striker. Why Rafa bought Aquilani (injured, not a position that really needed to be filled, not very good based on his handful of appearances) instead of said striker is pretty baffling.

Also Nani has looked pretty good since he threw his toys out of the pram back in January. Hargreaves and Anderson are of course mega-lols, but Tosic is young and not expected to break into the first team for a year or two yet so it seems premature to judge him.

Anyway, I'm not one who generally cares much about international football but I can't help but get psyched for the world cup.

(Also, Pennant was pretty damn good for Blues, but then again so was Bendtner )

 

[blacksun]

Eric Djemba-Djemba, so crap they named him twice.

Anyway, a lot of Liverpool's problems could be solved by the simple step of getting a competent second striker. Why Rafa bought Aquilani (injured, not a position that really needed to be filled, not very good based on his handful of appearances) instead of said striker is pretty baffling.

Also Nani has looked pretty good since he threw his toys out of the pram back in January. Hargreaves and Anderson are of course mega-lols, but Tosic is young and not expected to break into the first team for a year or two yet so it seems premature to judge him.

Anyway, I'm not one who generally cares much about international football but I can't help but get psyched for the world cup.

(Also, Pennant was pretty damn good for Blues, but then again so was Bendtner )

Actually the Aquilani signing isnt as baffling as some suggest, he was bought as a direct replacement for Alonso and Rafa believed he had more funds to buy the backup striker you mention that we needed, unfortunately the Scumbag owners then pulled the plug, telling him he had only a couple of million to buy the CB and CF that we needed hence the Kyriakos signing instead of Shawcross/Turner/Cahill who Rafa really wanted.
As for Nani, yes he had a good spell of 4-5 games but thats hardly showing value after 3 years, hell even Babel has looked good in 4-5 games in 3 years. As for Tosic, he was meant to be on the fringes of the 1st team, hes not that young, 22 now so you are probably thinking of his compatriot Ljalic(18) who was also signed for about 8m in the same deal who is back on loan in his homeland, but after very average performances for the reserves it was obvious he was nowhere near ready, hence my comment about a waste of 8m. You are also correct about Djemba Djemba but I was only going on the last few years that Rafa was at Liverpool as a direct comparison, hell there are plenty more down the years for Fergie but thats another discussion.
Pennant was good for your Blues hence why he got noticed by Rafa but as a last resort for the position Rafa had decided was in need of strengthening. I dont think even the most Avid Brum fan could argue he was in Dani Alves or Simao's league tho.

 

[beardyian]

Is anyone else getting a little tired of all the world cup adverts, any thing in existence seems to be linked with it and riding the band wagon.

Buy a new extra big telly for the games (even if it was ok for the other matches),
buy the world cup sponsers chocolate to eat while drinking your world cup beer that you bought with your special world cup grocery shop.

Having driven to the shops in your new world cup cars you can then get your new sofa to sit and watch the games on.

All this with your world cup credit cards right?

 

[Worak]

Is anyone else getting a little tired of all the world cup adverts, any thing in existence seems to be linked with it and riding the band wagon.

Buy a new extra big telly for the games (even if it was ok for the other matches),
buy the world cup sponsers chocolate to eat while drinking your world cup beer that you bought with your special world cup grocery shop.

Having driven to the shops in your new world cup cars you can then get your new sofa to sit and watch the games on.

All this with your world cup credit cards right?

I try to evade ANY commercial but even I realize that there are too many WC-spots.

Usually I set off a WC-fart ~ sounds like a vuvuzela and smells like turf.

 

[Kebo11K]

FIFA in t minus 1 week!
I see US taking the division and stealing the game from a very overrated England team that didn't even make the Euro tourny recently

 

[S93]

meh. US will probably get 2nd in the group since its the weekest of all the groups but aiming higher then the first KO is probably pushing it imo.

Only spot where the US is better then England is there goal keepers.
Only outfield players in the squad that would make England are probably Donovan and Dempsey and they would both by fringe players.

Looking at the US squad there are no real "winners" in the squad.
Biggest team any one in the squad plays for is Ac Millan and he is a reserve player that has played 1game for the club, then u got a Villareal reserve striker that floped on loan at Hull, 3players from struggling German sides, defender from a relagation thretent Norwegian side and then players from pretty average european sides.


Not alot of them have won any big trophys or have experience from big matches.

Where as the England squad has been on fire since Capello took over and have match winners in almost every position
And more importantly, there players have experience from playing in the biggest games with there clubs and are proven at the highest level.

Now dont get me wrong I dont think England is gonna win since there are a few teams looking alot stronger and England are probably gonna go out on Penaltys in the KO stage but I seriously doubt the US is gonna be the team to knock em down.

 

[workinonit]

I see US taking the division and stealing the game from a very overrated England team that didn't even make the Euro tourny recently

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[workinonit]

World Cup Thread

 

[blacksun]

Tosic is young and not expected to break into the first team for a year or two yet so it seems premature to judge him.

Guess we can now as Fergie has apparantly offloaded him to CSKA for a couple of million, showing another decent loss on a player, which will be completely ignored by the media again.

 

[workinonit]

Lol was just having a quick look at the Marca website and there was a story that Real were going to offer a total of 132 million euros for Gerrard and Rooney, its source? 'El periódico británico 'Daily Star'' Made me chuckle

 

[blott]

we have seen them all now...germany and brazil against the field for me....

 

[Gesshoo]

Well, it never rains but it pours!

With all the disarray LFC are in, no manager, no idea who the new manager will be, owners who want to sell but no apparent buyers, Mascherano off to Inter, Benayoun off to Chelsea, Torres & Gerrard both watching and waiting - and now we get the 2010-2011 fixtures, and we have Arsenal, Man City & ManU all in our first 5 games!

Nice test for the new boss - if we have one by then!