'Black Friday' and associated fallout megathread

[OzExorcist]

If someone got control of FT, what is their first move? IMHO?
Fire all the pros. Especially the ones who took too much money 'on spec' out of the FT coffers.

Worst thing they could do IMO. Granted, Howard Lederer is probably a liability at this stage (and was he ever really a draw in the first place?) but they absolutely want to keep as many of the others as they can, for two reasons.

One, they're one of the biggest assets they've got. Full Tilt's entire brand is built around the learn, chat and play with the pros concept. That requires them to have a whole heap of pros on their roster and they've already got almost all the pros worth having on it.

Two, if they fire all the pros then those pros are going to go elsewhere and promote other sites, which is also very bad for Full Tilt.

Absolutely, restructure how they're paid. But firing them would be a terrible business move.

 

[ALL IN CLUBS]

where you at Howie

 

[ILLuMNaughty]

The Full Tilt Memorial Service is Now In Session ......To Be Continued!

http://youtu.be/TG-0H4jTedg

 

[lilybo]

Checked my e-mail today when I got home, I thought it was odd to be getting an e-mail from the Michigan Attorney General's office.

Citizen Response - Internet Poker

Wednesday, July 6, 2011 2:17 PM

From:
"Michigan Attorney General" <miag@michigan.gov>
Add sender to Contacts



To:
"Michigan Attorney General" <miag@michigan.gov>



July 6, 2011

Good afternoon:

The Attorney General has asked me to respond to your e-mail requesting support from this office on U.S. House Bill H.R. 2267 and U.S. Senate Bill S. 1597, which both propose federal administrative and licensing requirements governing Internet game-of-skill facilities.

Thank you for recognizing that this is federal legislation that neither the Attorney General's office nor the Michigan Legislature has any control over. Moreover, even if the legislation became law and our state had to either opt-out or participate in the program, it would be the Michigan Legislature and not the Office of Attorney General that would make that decision. The Attorney General's primary responsibility is to act as legal counsel for State of Michigan departments, agencies, and employees, as well as to issue opinions to members of the Legislature and department heads concerning legal issues that affect state government.

Therefore, you may wish to contact your congressional representative, and your corresponding state legislative representative, regarding your views and concerns on this matter.

Thank you for sharing your position on this matter.

Sincerely yours,

Donald S. McGehee, Division Chief
Michigan Department of Attorney General
Alcohol & gambling Enforcement Division

 

[Charade You Are]

The Attorney General's primary responsibility is to act as legal counsel for State of Michigan departments, agencies, and employees, as well as to issue opinions to members of the Legislature and department heads concerning legal issues that affect state government.

Well, if he's going to issue opinions, he should know people's views. We know how well letting Holder off his leash works.

 

[lilybo]

I just thought it was odd that the A.G.'s office would e-mail me as I don't believe that it was one of contacts through the PPA's action e-mail list.

I also received this today and thought I'd share.

Dear Ms. Boyea:

Thank you for contacting me regarding online poker. I appreciate hearing your views on this matter.
In 2006, Congress passed and the president signed into law the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA, P.L.109-347). Among other things, this law prevents gambling-related businesses from accepting credit card charges, electronic transfers, checks, and similar payment options for internet gambling that is outlawed by federal or state statutes. Final rules implementing this law went into effect in June 2010.

Some argue that legislation allowing widespread internet gambling would be beneficial to generating revenue from a viable market source. Others argue that allowing and regulating gambling on the internet would make illegal practices, such as fraud and money laundering, more feasible. On March 17, 2011, Representative John Campbell (R-CA) introduced the Internet Gambling Regulation, Consumer Protection, and Enforcement Act (H.R.1174). Among other things, this legislation would grant the Secretary of the Treasury regulatory and enforcement jurisdiction over an internet gambling licensing program that would be established by the bill. The purpose of the licensing program would be to serve as a safeguard for internet betting through background check requirements and suitability standards. This legislation has been referred to the House Judiciary Committee for further consideration.

Should this issue come before the full Senate, I will keep your views in mind. Thank you again for writing.

Sincerely,
Carl Levin

 

[Charade You Are]

In 2006, Congress passed and the president signed into law the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA, P.L.109-347).

That's the boilerplate answer I'm getting from some of my contacts too. It's disengenuous of them to state it that way when, in fact, Congress passed the Safe Port Act and THAT is what the president signed into law. Bill Frist's middle of the night attachment of the UIGEA to that bill was a way to get it into law without seeing the light of day or Congress actually having a discussion on it's merits.

 

[jh1spartanfan]

What are the odds that U.S. players will ever be able to play on FT again?

 

[Mentor]

I'd say, close enough to nil to call it nil. I suppose there's a chance we'll see the software on a site re-branded for legal American play. That's all total speculation, though.

 

[OzExorcist]

What are the odds that U.S. players will ever be able to play on FT again?

Anytime soon? Zero. At some point in the future? It depends.

 

[OziFigJam]

Cake Poker is stalling on payouts.I am in Australia and use neteller.Similar email as Full Tilt use to send.Same parrot different cage.OziRay

 

[pokerman27]

What are the odds that U.S. players will ever be able to play on FT again?

Would you want to?

 

[WVHillbilly]

Last Day to file in federal court:
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/07/online-gambling-bankrolls/

 

[OziFigJam]

Cake poker is also stalling with payouts.Been waiting 6 days.Email from them blame system but for me similar emails to ones Full Tilt where sending me.Same PARROT different CAGE.Remember Holdem is not a drawing game in raised pots.Regards OziFigJam.

 

[ALL IN CLUBS]

Last Day to file in federal court:
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/07/online-gambling-bankrolls/

Did you file???

 

[WVHillbilly]

Nope.

 

[LeanAndMean]

Would I want to play on Full Tilt again? sure. They were the best site IMHO

 

[alaskabill]

Would I want to play on Full Tilt again? sure. They were the best site IMHO

I'm not trying to troll or anything. Serious question. Full Tilt had lousy customer service. They have not paid back US players and there is no indication that they will anytime soon. They have refused to communicate in any meaningful way with players about the crisis. They have their license pulled and aren't paying back the Euros now.

Exactly what would it take for you to say you wouldn't play on a site if that isn't enough?

 

[LeanAndMean]

You are talking about now, I am talking about then. Before black Friday. Full Tilt had excellent service. I could request a check payout and it came with no charge in a week. My email to support were answered in 24 hours. i blame current problems on my government, which has also screwed me on matters like abortion, religion, school funding, social programs. (Actually, it is the christian right which has screwed me on all those, but they have become synonymous with government). Back to Full Tilt, if they get out from under the yoke of the righteousness and go back to the site I knew and loved, of course I would play there again.

 

[xdeucesx]

You are talking about now, I am talking about then. Before black Friday. Full Tilt had excellent service. I could request a check payout and it came with no charge in a week. My email to support were answered in 24 hours. i blame current problems on my government, which has also screwed me on matters like abortion, religion, school funding, social programs. (Actually, it is the christian right which has screwed me on all those, but they have become synonymous with government). Back to Full Tilt, if they get out from under the yoke of the righteousness and go back to the site I knew and loved, of course I would play there again.

1. there customer service was poor at best, ps had the "excellent service, not ftp
2. Blame the DOJ all you want, but the fact still remains FTP was a poorly run company
3. The "Christian Right" did not destroy poker, the UIGEA did. Just because you dislike the "Christian Right" does not mean they are synonymous w/government, holding down ftp, screwed you on poker, etc...

 

[dj11]

1. there customer service was poor at best, ps had the "excellent service, not ftp
2. Blame the DOJ all you want, but the fact still remains FTP was a poorly run company
3. The "Christian Right" did not destroy poker, the UIGEA did. Just because you dislike the "Christian Right" does not mean they are synonymous w/government, holding down ftp, screwed you on poker, etc...

Based on our experiences over the past 2 years or so, the best CS was probably at bodog, if only because they provide an actual phone number to talk to a real live human being.

Stars was next best, and a very close 2nd at that. Considering their size, their total CS'ing power could easily mean they were the best.

Cereus was better that Tilt. Hell, Zen was better than Tilt. Tilt got the job done last year better than at the beginning of this year, and 2 years ago the Tilt CS was pretty decent. At best tho, I would only rate the FullTilt CS before BF, as adequate.

 

[xdeucesx]

Based on our experiences over the past 2 years or so, the best CS was probably at bodog, if only because they provide an actual phone number to talk to a real live human being.

Stars was next best, and a very close 2nd at that. Considering their size, their total CS'ing power could easily mean they were the best.

Cereus was better that Tilt. Hell, Zen was better than Tilt. Tilt got the job done last year better than at the beginning of this year, and 2 years ago the Tilt CS was pretty decent. At best tho, I would only rate the FullTilt CS before BF, as adequate.

+1

 

[OzExorcist]

I always find it interesting reading people's views on Full Tilt's customer service. In the almost four years I've been playing there I've only needed to deal with their support people a handful of times but I've never had a complaint about the service. Sure they've never responded to me in stuffed monkey semaphore or written me haikus like the Stars staff are famous for but every time my e-mails were answered within hours.

I don't have much experience with other poker sites but I've got loads of experience with other businesses and I've gotta say Full Tilt's service has been way, way better than what I get from my phone company, my real estate agent, my bank and any number of other companies I deal with IRL on a regular basis.

I wonder if sometimes they look bad just because Stars is so outstanding and that's who they're always compared to? Or have I just been lucky and had abnormally good experiences with them?

 

[dmorris68]

I wonder if sometimes they look bad just because Stars is so outstanding and that's who they're always compared to? Or have I just been lucky and had abnormally good experiences with them?

Same here, in that the few times I've ever emailed them for support, I got a quick and helpful response. When I requested that my account be retagged for rakeback, despite remembering that I had signed up with an affiliate, they not only explained that by not depositing within 60 days any affiliate association was terminated, but they had me on RB within the week. They could have just blown me off like a lot of people claim happened to them, but they didn't.

I made more money on FT than all other sites combined, and will certainly look back with fondness on my biggest wins, such as the $25K Guaranteed I took down a couple years ago. I also like their software over Stars (and over anyone else by a mile).

All that said, knowing now how they apparently ran their business, I'm glad I had withdrawn all but the $100 or so I have left on there. I would never consider playing there again if any vestige of the prior management were still in control of things. Stars, on the other hand, I would jump back on in a heartbeat if they were allowed to serve US players again.

 

[Pokerstudent]

I think poker players forgive too easily and forget too easily. I'm including myself. After UB had their scandal, players who said they'd "never go back" went back because the only players playing were fish and they wanted their 'edge'. Despite their existing record, they choose to return.

Although FTP's actions have been deplorable, if everyone got their money back tomorrow and some weak-azz apology was given, I believe at least HALF the AMOUNT of players would return. Like I said, perhaps not half of the players that left, but enough new players would return. As a result, Howard would only make like $400K/month instead of $800K.

Unfortunately, the 'degen' aspect of players sometimes does apply.