Egon Towst
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
The linked piece appears to be a perfectly accurate account of the way the court system works in the UK, and therefore presumably in Alderney. There is, however, one critical flaw in this plan. As the piece rightly says:
"If Filco do not turn up and defend your claim, the court will grant judgment in default and order Filco to pay you your money back."
However, if they turn up to offer a defence and you are not present to state your arguments the reverse is likely to happen, and the court will rule against you. Therefore, you should budget for flights to Alderney, hotels etc, which rather alters the financial attractiveness of this course of action.
You could possibly brief an Alderney lawyer to represent you at court rather than appearing personally, but that would also eat away any money you might win.
There is a further problem also. Even if you do win, it does not mean that you will receive immediate payment. The losing party can plead that his financial circumstances make it difficult for him to pay at once and he can offer a "Proposal for Payment". This would usually consist of a promise to pay by a specified future date, or a plan to pay by small instalments over an extended period. It is normal for the court to approve such proposals unless they are seen to be an obvious attempt to unreasonably delay payment. Therefore, you may win and finish up only with a promise of payment within the next (say) two years, which is not very different from the position you are in currently.
"If Filco do not turn up and defend your claim, the court will grant judgment in default and order Filco to pay you your money back."
However, if they turn up to offer a defence and you are not present to state your arguments the reverse is likely to happen, and the court will rule against you. Therefore, you should budget for flights to Alderney, hotels etc, which rather alters the financial attractiveness of this course of action.
You could possibly brief an Alderney lawyer to represent you at court rather than appearing personally, but that would also eat away any money you might win.
There is a further problem also. Even if you do win, it does not mean that you will receive immediate payment. The losing party can plead that his financial circumstances make it difficult for him to pay at once and he can offer a "Proposal for Payment". This would usually consist of a promise to pay by a specified future date, or a plan to pay by small instalments over an extended period. It is normal for the court to approve such proposals unless they are seen to be an obvious attempt to unreasonably delay payment. Therefore, you may win and finish up only with a promise of payment within the next (say) two years, which is not very different from the position you are in currently.
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OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Pretty sure there was something further down the thread that said you could choose to be represented by someone else at the hearing or present your case in writing only so it wasn't like you had to present yourself in person in Alderney in order to be paid.
That is, of course, all a moot point though since their licence has now been suspended and the same jurisdiction has made a ruling that they're not allowed to let anyone withdraw.
That is, of course, all a moot point though since their licence has now been suspended and the same jurisdiction has made a ruling that they're not allowed to let anyone withdraw.
arahel_jazz
Unbalanced and Committed
Silver Level
In the U.S. this would be a classic "Class Action" lawsuit. A group of plaintiffs get together and commonly bring suit against the company.
What I wonder is if FT would have enough assets to go into a Chapter 13 bankruptcy liquidation? Maybe then folks could get a percentage (probably 10%) of their money.
O
Oil_Fan
Rock Star
Silver Level
Full Tilt looks to be in serious trouble now:
http://www.pokernewsdaily.com/full-...44/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
They just had their gaming license suspended and they've stopped all operations, including withdrawals even for non US residents.
http://www.pokernewsdaily.com/full-...44/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
They just had their gaming license suspended and they've stopped all operations, including withdrawals even for non US residents.
absoluthamm
<==Poker Face
Silver Level
Read about 2 pages back, you're late to the party
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Nope, it was a small claims process, not a class action. Each claim against the company would be assessed individually though it would have to be under the threshold amount (4000 pounds IIRC) in order to be eligible. Though again, it's a moot point now that the same jurisdiction that the case would be heard in has ruled that they're not allowed to pay anybody until their licensing investigation is completed.
As for their assets I think the problem is that much of the company's worth is tied up in assets that are largely intangible (the brand name and software) as well as the player base itself. Those are things that are worth much more while the business is a going concern though. So the best hope players the world over have now I think is still for the company to find a new investor that will provide them with the cash injection they need to pay out US players and keep the business running in the rest of the world, and then install some competent management.
O
Oil_Fan
Rock Star
Silver Level
Nothing in this thread about this. Now I did see that thread in the Poker Room section after I posted the link here.
absoluthamm
<==Poker Face
Silver Level
My bad, I got confused about which thread I was in as I've been bouncing back and forth all morning. Thought I was in this thread: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok...suspends-full-tilts-operating-licence-199025/ .
absoluthamm
<==Poker Face
Silver Level
Yea, Phil I'veys training site is going to be packed with people looking for live coaching just over the internet.
What happened to the other posts in this thread? Could have sworn I saw a response to AllInClubs post by WV earlier. I'm losing my mind.
What happened to the other posts in this thread? Could have sworn I saw a response to AllInClubs post by WV earlier. I'm losing my mind.
WVHillbilly
Legend
Silver Level
You're confusing the threads imo.
absoluthamm
<==Poker Face
Silver Level
That's all I use, but once you get into the thread, they still look the same are are hard to differentiate unless I go back and read the whole page, and who really has the time for rereading again, lol
okeedokalee
Glory To Ukraine
Loyaler
this from subjectpoker.com
full tilt poker is considering reopening its operations with a permit from the Kahnawake Gaming Commission. Earlier today, the Alderney gambling Control Commission suspended Full Tilt Poker's licenses. Afterwards, players were unable to connect to the client software, and Full Tilt's website reported that its system was "down for maintenance." Now, multiple sources at Pocket Kings Ltd have told Subject: Poker that Full Tilt may use a permit from the Kahnawake Gaming Commission to continue allowing non-US players to play and possibly to resume processing deposits and withdrawals. The KGC regulations require a permit holder to operate its business from the Kahnawake Mohawk Territory, so...
My other site with money on high5action.com also closed, volutarily, trying to withdraw my bank...
full tilt poker is considering reopening its operations with a permit from the Kahnawake Gaming Commission. Earlier today, the Alderney gambling Control Commission suspended Full Tilt Poker's licenses. Afterwards, players were unable to connect to the client software, and Full Tilt's website reported that its system was "down for maintenance." Now, multiple sources at Pocket Kings Ltd have told Subject: Poker that Full Tilt may use a permit from the Kahnawake Gaming Commission to continue allowing non-US players to play and possibly to resume processing deposits and withdrawals. The KGC regulations require a permit holder to operate its business from the Kahnawake Mohawk Territory, so...
My other site with money on high5action.com also closed, volutarily, trying to withdraw my bank...
the Styb
Rock Star
Silver Level
Ummm... but who will still trust them?
I don't doubt KGC is willing to take FT's money for a new license. I don't doubt some casual players who don't keep up with the real world will continue to play. But after watching FT's Ponzi scheme blow up, who will still be willing to put money into their coffers?
$200-million for a 50% stake in a poorly run company sounds like a middle pair. Would that come with board voting power, or would it be a silent partnership? I wonder if Jack Binion's real interest might be getting ahold of FT's client software, which is still the best out there, bar none.
Bad management + dragging feet after BF x Alderney shutdown = Caveat Emptor.
I don't doubt KGC is willing to take FT's money for a new license. I don't doubt some casual players who don't keep up with the real world will continue to play. But after watching FT's Ponzi scheme blow up, who will still be willing to put money into their coffers?
$200-million for a 50% stake in a poorly run company sounds like a middle pair. Would that come with board voting power, or would it be a silent partnership? I wonder if Jack Binion's real interest might be getting ahold of FT's client software, which is still the best out there, bar none.
Bad management + dragging feet after BF x Alderney shutdown = Caveat Emptor.
Egon Towst
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
That`s not necessarily good for players. It means, in effect, that they want to move from a jurisdiction where the regulatory body is diligent about legality and due process to one where lower standards are acceptable.
dj11
Legend
Silver Level
Agree that it is top 3 or 4 from a players POV, which is what really matters (Stars, Cereus, and soon Yatahay also are great software packages). But I think any patents, trademarks, or copywrites on RUSH poker are the most valuable thing FT owns, and could be licensed in a heartbeat to multiple other sites with probably enough down payment income to have covered this before this tragedy.
Thing is, at this point, we have heard so many alternate company names involved in FT, that its possible that a non-responsible company (shell entity) owns those rights and the responsible Company at FT can not even benefit from its own creation!
Because the business was generating income other than by merely selling management positions, I don't think PONZI scheme is a correct description of what went down. Ponzi's, typically, sell the rights to sell rights to sell rights to sell.... = Pyramid schemes.
Gross mismanagement, and greed, along with an overly ambitious ROI expectation, are what are at the core here, IMHO.
the Styb
Rock Star
Silver Level
I was aiming at their using US dollars to continue to pay out to non-US players. Robbing Peter to pay Paolo isn't exactly a Ponzi, it's close enough!
