'Black Friday' and associated fallout megathread

[noname65]

You have to wonder about the people who say that Full Tilt customer disservice would respond to emails within hours. Whom they were fellating at Full Tilt, I have no idea, but in my experience, a response from Full Tilt within two WEEKS was faster than usual. Moreover, their emails were universally _un_ responsive to my initial email, as if some trained chimps were just copying and pasting from a script. To praise Full Tilt's customer disservice department is beyond ridiculous.

And here's a little vignette on Full Tilt's fundamental dishonesty: About 30 seconds before the AGC shut them down, when all games were already paused and Full Tilt _knew_ they were about to be shut down, they were still accepting deposits. And even today their website still shows the same silly advertising with just a little button up top saying "system is down for maintenance, please try again later." That lie has to be as blackhearted as anything.

I feel bad for players who have thousands of dollars or more stuck on Full Tilt, especially if those represent a significant chunk of their business assets. If it weren't for those players, I would fervently wish for Full Tilt and everyone in cahoots with it to be consigned to the deepest pit of hell.

 

[OzExorcist]

How's that lawsuit coming BTW?

 

[noname65]

Just keep mocking us honest people, you sold-out sycopanth. Your tongue is so deep in full tilt's anus that major surgery couldn't extract it.

 

[jh1spartanfan]

If FTP were to reopen to the U.S. and it still said I had a bankroll, I would withdrawl, most of it, leave about $100 and play there. There software, IMO, is hands down the best.

 

[coolnout]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4KV3KMYqAM&feature=player_detailpage#t=336s Eli Elezra asked about why he continues to wear FTP gear at the main event, and if he believes players will be paid.

 

[OzExorcist]

Just keep mocking us honest people, you sold-out sycopanth. Your tongue is so deep in full tilt's anus that major surgery couldn't extract it.

...so the suit isn't going well then?

Everything I said was fact and my questions were genuine, BTW.

 

[the Styb]

You have to wonder about the people who say that Full Tilt customer disservice would respond to emails within hours. Whom they were fellating at Full Tilt, I have no idea, but in my experience, a response from Full Tilt within two WEEKS was faster than usual. Moreover, their emails were universally _un_ responsive to my initial email, as if some trained chimps were just copying and pasting from a script. To praise Full Tilt's customer disservice department is beyond ridiculous.

And here's a little vignette on Full Tilt's fundamental dishonesty: About 30 seconds before the AGC shut them down, when all games were already paused and Full Tilt _knew_ they were about to be shut down, they were still accepting deposits. And even today their website still shows the same silly advertising with just a little button up top saying "system is down for maintenance, please try again later." That lie has to be as blackhearted as anything.

Copying and pasting from scripts? You think? Probably, considering that's how most CS e-mails start. Usually there's a simple solution that the user missed somewhere along the line. I've never had a problem with FT CS. Prompt, helpful and courteous every time. (Three times in about 6 years or so.)

Really? 30 seconds? I'm surprised they didn't re-write their software to block deposits in that 30-seconds. How shameful! No wonder they got shut down! BTW, the badge on the FT website hasn't had the word 'maintenance' on it for a few weeks now. It just says the system is down. Of course, that's the US portal. No idea what message they have on the site in Looneyville…

Just keep mocking us honest people, you sold-out sycopanth. Your tongue is so deep in full tilt's anus that major surgery couldn't extract it.

Hmmm... if that's how your e-mails to Tilt were phrased, you're lucky you got an answer in two weeks. Sycopanth? nice combination of 'sycophant' and 'psychopath'. I think I'll steal it!

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

So, I've been out of the loop for a while - has anything actually happened in the last few weeks? Any word from the DoJ? From Alderney? From FT (lmao)?

 

[dj11]

So, I've been out of the loop for a while - has anything actually happened in the last few weeks? Any word from the DoJ? From Alderney? From FT (lmao)?

In a nutshell? No.

 

[KerouacsDog]

So, I've been out of the loop for a while - has anything actually happened in the last few weeks? Any word from the DoJ? From Alderney? From FT (lmao)?

from my bad memory, hearing was changed to a private hearing, and it's been adjourned until Sept 15th at the latest. Someone correct this if it's wrong, lol.

 

[alaskabill]

Serious article from Subject poker. Ivey Borrowed millions

Subject Poker is reporting that Ivey borrowed millions from full tilt and details how some pros were paid given loans etc.

http://www.subjectpoker.com/2011/07/ivey-benyamine/

Noah is quite reputable and this article has the ring of truth.

Full Tilt was playing fast and loose with your money.

 

[cardriverx]

This may become the most well-known date in online poker history.

Friday, April 15th, 2011

The new "Black Friday."

Alright I should get credit for this term Black Friday. I posted this on April 15th.

lol.

 

[tbdbitl]

Alright I should get credit for this term Black Friday. I posted this on April 15th.

lol.

Good for you! Now what kind of cookie would you like?

 

[CheckraiseLife]

well it looks like the minmum time europeans are gunna get paid out in is two months from what i've read and thats pretty lame, entire BR on thre lol, oh well will have to keep up my staking deal I guess.
*Edited due to responce and stupid posting caps! *
source: http://www.pokernewsreport.com/full...-facing-months-of-uncertainty-over-funds-3890

 

[KerouacsDog]

source Check?

 

[jazzaxe]

Subject Poker is reporting that Ivey borrowed millions from full tilt and details how some pros were paid given loans etc.

http://www.subjectpoker.com/2011/07/ivey-benyamine/

Noah is quite reputable and this article has the ring of truth.

Full Tilt was playing fast and loose with your money.

Is no one concerned with the fact that this group could access a player's account?

 

[KerouacsDog]

well it looks like the minmum time europeans are gunna get paid out in is two months from what i've read and thats pretty lame, entire BR on thre lol, oh well will have to keep up my staking deal I guess.
*Edited due to responce and stupid posting caps! *
source: http://www.pokernewsreport.com/full...-facing-months-of-uncertainty-over-funds-3890

thanks.
minimum of 2 months, wtf?

 

[illium4]

FTP loans to Pros?

I'm very skeptical of the recent reports that Pro players were loaned money by FTP.
Why would this information come out now? and who would be able to access this confidential information legally? Maybe this information was released to embarrass players who have disassociated themselves from FTP. These players were already being paid large salaries to be part of the FTP team and I assume all their buyins were paid for, along with any associated winnings. Perhaps it was just used to inflate the high stakes cash game scene and attract more high rollers. In any case it stinks and only reflects on FTP's highly dubious practices. Remember FTP had a main team of about 12 "celebrity" Pros but they also sponsored about 150 other. If this situation does not get resolved then all of their reputation will be irrevocably tarnished. Better dispose of all that FTP merchandise guys before it lands you in hot water!

 

[coolnout]

I'm very skeptical of the recent reports that Pro players were loaned money by FTP.
Why would this information come out now? and who would be able to access this confidential information legally?

Mike Matusow confirmed this a bit on Quadjacks. He said he knew one of the Benyamine numbers to be legitimate (benyamine asked him for a loan of the same sum). He said someone on the inside had to be leaking this info obv. He wasn't happy about it because it could further hurt the FTP brand which in turn makes it harder for us to get our money back.

 

[WVHillbilly]

Does anyone really think it's possible to "further hurt the FTP brand"?

 

[Poker Orifice]

Does anyone really think it's possible to "further hurt the FTP brand"?

sure...

"Poker After Dark" .. just a big freeroll on the player's funds. sigh

 

[coolnout]

Does anyone really think it's possible to "further hurt the FTP brand"?

he said the timing was horrible because they're at a critical point where they're trying to get investors.

 

[OzExorcist]

These players were already being paid large salaries to be part of the FTP team and I assume all their buyins were paid for, along with any associated winnings. Perhaps it was just used to inflate the high stakes cash game scene and attract more high rollers. In any case it stinks and only reflects on FTP's highly dubious practices. Remember FTP had a main team of about 12 "celebrity" Pros but they also sponsored about 150 other. If this situation does not get resolved then all of their reputation will be irrevocably tarnished.

You've got some bits right and other bits very wrong IMO.

Yes, sponsored pros received salaries and bonuses when they wore the company's logo on televised games etc. The sites will have also fronted them the cash to play in various tournaments and televised games, although I sincerely doubt this was money that was given to them free and clear - company management will have been keeping a tab for all players and they would have had to pay makeup out of any winnings to recover past buy ins. The fact that most of the money paid to Benyamine and Ivey in the article above is referred to as "loans" supports this.

I agree absolutely that one of the reasons loans like this were made would have been to encourage high-stakes cash game action on the site. More high stakes action = more rake for the company, which is a good thing for them financially. It's also a marketing thing though. Given the site's positioning as being a place to learn, chat and play with the pros it's obviously advantageous for them to build up the reputation of their pros as much as possible, demonstrate that they've got the best pros that play and win in the biggest cash games and tournaments in the world, online or live.

Even if this weren't the case though, in theory I don't see anything wrong with the practice of extending credit to players as long as it's done intelligently. It's a standard practice in brick and mortar casinos for high rollers to be extended markers or lines of credit and I don't think the Full Tilt case is much different. Obviously the casino does its due dilligence first and only extends credit to those players who they know will be able to pay if they lose the money. It seems both Ivey and Benyamine were making repayments at various points so it doesn't seem that anybody (even Ivey) was being given money that the site never expected to get back.

Whether or not Full Tilt was doing this with "our" money is neither here nor there IMO. The site's licence required it to maintain financial ratios such that its assets exceeded its player account liabilities and until Black Friday (as far as we know) this was the case. So long as they had somebody's money to give me when I requested a withdrawl then just like my bank I wouldn't have cared if it was "my" money, your money or their own profits that they loaned to high rollers in the meantime - don't forget that Full Tilt would have had millions in its accounts of its own profits that didn't belong to any players and there's no way of knowing whether it was those funds or player funds that were loaned.

Long story short, I don't think this practice of providing loans to sponsored players is / was a problem per se. Their risk management when it came to their US market exposure, on the other hand, was a massive problem...

 

[Mentor]

Whether or not Full Tilt was doing this with "our" money is neither here nor there IMO. The site's licence required it to maintain financial ratios such that its assets exceeded its player account liabilities and until Black Friday (as far as we know) this was the case.

The issue for many is that we do not know if this was in fact the case. "As far as we know" does not mean much if you do not put much faith in the AGCC. We don't know how lax their auditing process was, or how long they let Full Tilt go insolvent -- hell, they are letting another six weeks go by on the chance of a buy, as operating funds (and player funds) continue to dwindle.

 

[Mentor]

The KGC just renewed FTP's secondary license for next 2 years ---

http://www.gamingcommission.ca/news/pr07292011c.pdf

Not entirely sure on the implications of this.......