LarkMarlow
Legend
Silver Level
^ Remember, we are an international forum so this offer can still benefit many members. I am sure the american flag will eventually be removed--the CC staff is swamped these days with all the changes BF entailed so we need to be patient as well as appreciative for all the great work they do. 
coolnout
Legend
Silver Level
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Tom Dwan and Erik Seidel apparently both played the first event of the wsop without their Full Tilt patches on and there are reports that John Juanda had a loud and nasty argument with a British player during the $25K heads up event:
http://taopoker.blogspot.com/2011/06/2011-wsop-day-1-welcome-to-jungle-and.html
I guess I take back what I said earlier, it really seems people are willing to make this personal with members of Team Full Tilt other than Lederer - I mean John Juanda, really?!? I don't think I've seen his name come up anywhere before now on this issue and he'd have to be one of the most unassuming and unthreatening guys on their roster...
http://taopoker.blogspot.com/2011/06/2011-wsop-day-1-welcome-to-jungle-and.html
I guess I take back what I said earlier, it really seems people are willing to make this personal with members of Team Full Tilt other than Lederer - I mean John Juanda, really?!? I don't think I've seen his name come up anywhere before now on this issue and he'd have to be one of the most unassuming and unthreatening guys on their roster...
ALL IN CLUBS
Legend
Silver Level
If Full Tilt wants to keep its existing customers , you would think they would give them some type of incentive to stay on their site. Instead every statement they have sent out is as good as reading a blank piece of paper.
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
You're forgetting that none of their existing customers outside the US are directly affected by this and anyone who is affected is no longer a customer: US players are now just liabilities.
Obviously this is doing damage to their global brand and that's bad for them but the lack of action doesn't directly affect their remaining customer base.
On the Juanda situation a few sources are now suggesting it was the continuation of a previous argument and might not be related to Black Friday / the payouts situation.
pokerchris
Legend
Silver Level
What is your qualification for a bodyguard?
Worak
Legend
Bronze Level
He is scary.
pokerman27
Visionary
Silver Level
The argument had nothing to do with Black Friday and was a continuation of a dispute from Macau.
R
Rhodan
Rising Star
Bronze Level
I withdrew a few hundred dollars past Sunday and it was deposited on my bank account on Tuesday. So yes, for people outside the US it's business as usual on Full Tilt. This makes sense, because FTP can't afford to lose their non-US player base as well. As long as FTP manages to run their business, I'm fairly certain US players will eventually get their money back.
Makwa
Undesirable Predator
Silver Level
I got my payout also, I tend to think Rhodan is right...
Poker Orifice
And Still...
Platinum Level
This ^ ,.... & I think it'd be fun!
Actually I'm a washed up, older fart but have worked as a bodyguard in the past (Bryan Adams, Tina Turner, & the likes of Steve Petrov (< & others related to O.C.)
ALL IN CLUBS
Legend
Silver Level
No Oz i am not forgetting , they are affected by this, alot of players from other Countries are sitting on the sidelines wondering should i pull my money out of Fulltilt and Play on pokerstars since they did start paying back US customers. Im saying if it was my Company i would dam well try to make the customers i still have playing confident that they should stay and keep playing on Full Tilt. I dont see them doing that at all . If i was still playing in another Country i sure would be very tempted to lighten my bankroll untill some sort of outcome happens. Just sayin...:tee:
R
Rhodan
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Not at any time was I tempted to do this. Do you have any proof that non-US players are "sitting on the sidelines"? Because I have no problem finding action on FTP so far. What do you base the idea on that FT is not doing their best to keep their non-US player base confident? Like I said in my previous post, I was paid out 2 days after withdrawal. It was supposed to take between 5 and 8 days.
Except for not being able to play against Americans, which is a large chunk of the player base, non-US players are not affected by this. I hope all this gets sorted out quickly for the US players, but if it's not, I'll just as happily play Russians and such.
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
*shrugs*
As we've seen they're still processing payments to other countries in a timely manner (there are stories that there have been a delay in payments to Brazilian players, don't know if that's related or some separate issue though), I believe they've adjusted their tournament schedule to be more European-friendly and it's pretty much business as normal. Payments are being processed, games are running, bonuses are being paid, what more do you think they can do?
Remember too that there will be a whole load of casual players who don't frequent forums or poker news sites and probably don't even know that this is an issue. People like us who stay informed are actually a minority - another easy thing to forget.
As Belgo noted above player numbers are declining there and obviously this is doing damage to their brand in the eyes of people that are paying attention but I still think you're overestimating how much the rest of the world cares whether Americans get paid or not. IMO the departure of Phil Ivey will do a lot more damage.
R
Rhodan
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Rhodan ? Why did you withdrawl a few hundred??
Why wouldn't I? I needed the cash. What other reason is there to withdraw from your bankroll? I left plenty to play with.
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Long story short they're a toxic risk right now.
The DoJ hasn't even started with prosecuting them yet so they've got potentially huge fines and legal action hanging over their heads, the figurehead of their branding campaign is publicly suing them to be let out of his contract, several of their other pros are turning up to events not wearing their patches and it seems the company has been pretty poorly managed for some time now.
IMO the absolute best thing they could do right now to restore confidence is fire all the management and replace them with people who know what the hell they're doing. I can't imagine who would want to take that job on though...
dj11
Legend
Silver Level
Just a thought...
Inspired by the simple fact that the Stars check I received had PokerStars written on its face. Add in the nagging suspicion that the only thing the sites ever had to do was just that, put their own names on the checks.
Since this whole case involves the movement of money, and some questionable practices, and NOT about the legality of online poker, I think FullTilt should re-open gaming to US players who already have an account. They can prevent new deposits from US players until something comes along to clarify things, and they can pursue helping along things that will help clarify things.
For FT it would mean a large consolidation of the US players money. Many will go belly up, and be unable to continue. A choice that only affects whether they can deposit means they can still play.
For simplicities sake let me use a number of 100 players with limited bankrolls. Also for simplicities sake lets assume they each have the same bankroll. Very shortly after they resume playing, there would be only 50 bankrolled players, shortly after that 25, then 10, etc. In the end there might only be one. FT would have reduced the volume of complaints, without reducing its financial liability, so things could be much simpler.
In the meantime, FT has collected rake or fees, hopefully regained some lost reputation, and until that one remaining player wants his money (a fairly substantial sum by that point) FT has no payout issues at all.
Since the player experience is extremely important, like how many of us like the bodog experience, or the Zen experience or the Merge experience compared to the Stars or Tilt, or even Cereus experience we know we prefer the software of the sites that have abandoned us. And because of this, US players will flock to Tilt. Might be the nittiest play ever, but we would return, full force.
Also in the meantime, all the gears and fallout over the BF disaster can be sorted out.
Inspired by the simple fact that the Stars check I received had PokerStars written on its face. Add in the nagging suspicion that the only thing the sites ever had to do was just that, put their own names on the checks.
Since this whole case involves the movement of money, and some questionable practices, and NOT about the legality of online poker, I think FullTilt should re-open gaming to US players who already have an account. They can prevent new deposits from US players until something comes along to clarify things, and they can pursue helping along things that will help clarify things.
For FT it would mean a large consolidation of the US players money. Many will go belly up, and be unable to continue. A choice that only affects whether they can deposit means they can still play.
For simplicities sake let me use a number of 100 players with limited bankrolls. Also for simplicities sake lets assume they each have the same bankroll. Very shortly after they resume playing, there would be only 50 bankrolled players, shortly after that 25, then 10, etc. In the end there might only be one. FT would have reduced the volume of complaints, without reducing its financial liability, so things could be much simpler.
In the meantime, FT has collected rake or fees, hopefully regained some lost reputation, and until that one remaining player wants his money (a fairly substantial sum by that point) FT has no payout issues at all.
Since the player experience is extremely important, like how many of us like the bodog experience, or the Zen experience or the Merge experience compared to the Stars or Tilt, or even Cereus experience we know we prefer the software of the sites that have abandoned us. And because of this, US players will flock to Tilt. Might be the nittiest play ever, but we would return, full force.
Also in the meantime, all the gears and fallout over the BF disaster can be sorted out.
Charade You Are
you can call me Frost
Silver Level
Maybe some of this 470 Grand is mine and why FTP can't pay us our money. Total BS that the feds can give out OUR money before everything is settled. Isn't that stealing?
The memo on the check: "Operation Texas Holdem". So brazen to opening admit it's a war against poker not gambling or money laundering. fckrs.
"Federal investigators shared the money after county detectives helped in an investigation that seized more than $33 million from gambling organizations using banks in Guam and Charlotte, NC."
http://odenton.patch.com/articles/county-police-net-470000-in-online-gambling-seizure#photo-6373325
The memo on the check: "Operation Texas Holdem". So brazen to opening admit it's a war against poker not gambling or money laundering. fckrs.
"Federal investigators shared the money after county detectives helped in an investigation that seized more than $33 million from gambling organizations using banks in Guam and Charlotte, NC."
http://odenton.patch.com/articles/county-police-net-470000-in-online-gambling-seizure#photo-6373325
Last edited:
TheKAAHK
Bubble Punter
Loyaler
Maybe some of this 470 Grand is mine and why FTP can't pay us our money. Total BS that the feds can give out OUR money before everything is settled. Isn't that stealing?
The memo on the check: "Operation Texas Holdem". So brazen to opening admit it's a war against poker not gambling or money laundering. fckrs.
"Federal investigators shared the money after county detectives helped in an investigation that seized more than $33 million from gambling organizations using banks in Guam and Charlotte, NC."
http://odenton.patch.com/articles/county-police-net-470000-in-online-gambling-seizure#photo-6373325
Does the brazenness of that picture and the message it sends actually surprise any of you? I'd expect nothing less of the american Government.