the Styb
Rock Star
Silver Level
From the new PPA press relea… uh, e-mail…
So, even though FT has been responsible in the past and AP/UB has not, FT is who the PPA contacted first? Talk about hand-picking your victories! Let's go with the guys that are dragging their heels to make a point and we'll get to the cheats later. If we can ever find what country they slipped off to…
I'm not sure what the PPA means by "payment processor defaults" and "prior actions… to seize player funds". FT owns their payment processors, right? And I don't remember any prior fund seizures by the US. Unless I was drunk that day. Anybody else?
So, even though FT has been responsible in the past and AP/UB has not, FT is who the PPA contacted first? Talk about hand-picking your victories! Let's go with the guys that are dragging their heels to make a point and we'll get to the cheats later. If we can ever find what country they slipped off to…
I'm not sure what the PPA means by "payment processor defaults" and "prior actions… to seize player funds". FT owns their payment processors, right? And I don't remember any prior fund seizures by the US. Unless I was drunk that day. Anybody else?
WVHillbilly
Legend
Silver Level
There were seizures of funds all the time in the past 18 months. I've seen estimates that the big 3 sites lost 20+ Mil a month to US government seizures. Every time people started bitching in mass about checks being slow / bouncing / being recalled in the past it was due to some random payment processor being shut down by the feds. The sites have always eaten these losses in the past by putting the $$s back in your account and then redoing cashouts. They never recovered those funds they just ate the cost to keep doing business in the US (lots of rake $$s coming from US players ldo).
As for why the PPA would talk to FTP 1st, it's likely UP/AB never answered the calls. FTP plans to pay their players of that I have no doubt. AP/UB plans on stealing everything they can. Why talk to the PPA when it does nothing to further carry on their lies?
As for why the PPA would talk to FTP 1st, it's likely UP/AB never answered the calls. FTP plans to pay their players of that I have no doubt. AP/UB plans on stealing everything they can. Why talk to the PPA when it does nothing to further carry on their lies?
the Styb
Rock Star
Silver Level
OK, wasn't really aware of those seizures. Amazing what you can ignore when you're tanking at the tables!
The way the e-mail reads, it sounds like the PPA has not yet tried to contact AP/UB, not that I think it will do any good.
N
nightmoves44
Legend
Silver Level
Payment processor defaults*could be accounts like mine that recieved my check on black friday which bounced,and now does not show in my fulltilt account now...nor in my bank account...and I get the same standard email when Ive told fulltilt about it..at leat 6-7 times so far..
tbdbitl
Legend
Silver Level
So what is your opinion about AP/UB based on?
I have NEVER had a problem with receiving a check from them. In fact I received a check from them on Black Friday. UB has ALWAYS replied promptly and handled all of my issues and concerns to my satisfaction. Their customer support was faster than ANY other site I dealt with (i.e., pokerstars, Fulltilt, and Merge).
dmorris68
Legend
Loyaler
Really? Where have you been?
Just off the top of my head, how about the fact that they've:
- Essentially declared bankruptcy
- Fired most of their staff
- Sent internal memos saying they were shutting down the business but opening up another to service non-US players (here's where the part about running off with the US money comes in)
- Had their offices raided in SA for not paying their workers since BF
- Most importantly they have a long and storied history of cheating and lying to their customers and everyone in the industry about it.
- Past and present ownership/management has proven themselves to be shady scumbags
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
IIRC weren't Full Tilt (along with Stars) the biggest contributor to the PPA before Black Friday? If so the e-mail reads more to me like they're still doing their job as the site's mouthpiece rather than anything else.
S
stooopid
Rising Star
Silver Level
Still waiting ... and wondering
This is my one and only (poker related) question:
As I've previously mentioned every single deposit I made on FT, dating to November 2010, has yet to clear my checking account. How long must I wait??
This is my one and only (poker related) question:
As I've previously mentioned every single deposit I made on FT, dating to November 2010, has yet to clear my checking account. How long must I wait??
alaskabill
Legend
Silver Level
Sorry man but no one here has the magic inside connection to give you an exact answer. If I had to guess, I would say that it is probably unlikely that FT will be able to collect the money given their legal situation. The DOJ has okayed them paying money out to Americans not collecting the money.
But that's all it is, a guess. If you decide to use the money, I would close the relevant bank account. Frankly, if you do that what's FTP going to do about it under the circumstances?
As long as they are not paying US players, I'm not losing sleep about you not paying them.
GL
JOEBOB69
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
+1 I'm one of the most honest trust worthy people you will ever meet but...There is a golden rule do unto others,,,,, ya know the rest.They seem to have no problem taking the average working guy\girls money and giving us little to no info.So close the account and send them a auto e-mail message.
tbdbitl
Legend
Silver Level
Recent occurances would be acceptable to me. Recent items that I snipped I would believe could be valid reasons. Everything except the not paying employees could be nothing more than positioning to protect them from the DOJ. We will wait and see!
Past Transgressions--well to a point I understand. Maybe I'm more forgiving than most. Had it been proved that the owners were the ones cheating, I'd probably have the same fry them attitude!
Long and Storied? Really? I know of each site having a case of shadyness. Each time it was dealt with when brought to their attention. Just as Pokerstars took care of their "bot" scandle when it was brought to their attention. FTP has returned money to players whenever cheating was discovered on their site. The only difference I think was that their are some pros that have not been fully reimbursed. I don't know this for a fact, so I probably shouldn't say anything. Personally I think there is a former wsop Main Event Champ that should be watching his back!
The shady scumbags part, I'm not sure I could say. Mainly because I have never personally experienced it. I do know there were a lot of pros that bashed UB on a regular basis. I don't blame them. After all, it was one of their own that cheated them via UB.
I guess I'm also not as harsh on them because I was able to make a 1500x return on initial investment on their site. And, maybe I'm not very concerned with them because after the check I received from them on April 15th I had left only $125 on their site. I have been pulling money off of sites I haven't played on very much. And, UB was one of the sites I was getting away from.
Everyone is all so certain that FTP will pay their players and there will be no issues. If anyone knows where all of the FTP Pros are hiding, ask them where our money is? I wonder if we will see any of them in Vegas in June and July?
Until my money that is on FTP is securely in my personal bank account, they are no different than UB/AP!
Stars has showed that they were and still are the best run operation out there! We will have to wait to see who comes in 2nd. And, when that 3rd is still sitting out there by themselves, let the beating commence!
the Styb
Rock Star
Silver Level
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Juanda, Lindgren, Matusow and Seidel turned up to the WPT Championship - though I suspect when you say "FTP pros" you really mean Howard Lederer, right?
tbdbitl
Legend
Silver Level
Matusow is the only one who has really spoken.
The Professor and Jesus are the two I main ones I was speaking of!
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Fair enough. I suspect Lederer might not show for the WSOP (has he played many events in recent years anyway?) but I'd be surprised if Ferguson didn't come. I think most of the anger, misdirected though it might be, has been for Lederer and I can imagine people giving him a hard time. Dunno why but I honestly can't imagine people doing the same thing to Chris Ferguson.
No way Ivey misses the WSOP, he's got too much riding on bracelet bets not to turn up. Same goes for Dwan.
FWIW I gather all the sponsored pros have been instructed by the lawyers not to speak publicly about the issue so in a lot of cases that's why you haven't heard anything from them - same goes for Stars pros like Negreanu and Greenstein too.
pokerman27
Visionary
Silver Level
Finally someone has learned how to shut Negreanu up.
The Dark Side
Visionary
Silver Level
lots of rumors about ftp to finally begin payouts to us player this week. hopefully they turn out to be true.
6 minutes ago I recieved another Rakeback payment,.
JOEBOB69
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Hi all,
Here is a brief official update from Full Tilt.
Doug
Quote:
To our customers:
We acknowledge that our lack of communication reflects poorly on us, and rightfully so. We have been too optimistic in estimating how long it would take to sort through the issues we have faced since Black Friday. And as frustrating as the delays have been for us, we recognize that it cannot compare to the frustration you have been feeling.
We further recognize that our lack of communication has led to much speculation and many unsubstantiated rumors, which have often been contradictory. With this message, we hope to clear up as much confusion as we can, while at the same time keeping in mind the constraints imposed on us as a result of the cases brought in the Southern District of New York.
The most pressing questions:
1. When will the US players be paid?
We still do not have a specific timeframe for this. There has been, and remains, no bigger priority than getting US players paid as soon as possible, and we have been working around the clock to get this done.
2. Is FTP bankrupt?
No. FTP's worldwide business is healthy and, although we've had some short-term challenges, it is operating as normal.
From: http://www.gamblingcontrol.org/userf...2020110516.pdf
"The AGCC’s investigation into the affairs of it licensee Vantage Limited, trading as Full Tilt.com, is ongoing; initial investigations indicate no reason to believe that player fund transactions are fundamentally threatened by any consequence of the US authorities' actions. Delays caused by these actions are in the process of resolution, with normal service now being restored for non-US players. We understand that progress in respect of US player fund repatriation is anticipated and will be the subject of a separate statement from Full Tilt in due course. The Commission will remain engaged in this process."
3. What is the company doing to speed up payouts to the US players?
We are raising capital to ensure that the US players are paid out in full as quickly as possible.
It is important to remember that full tilt poker has always paid out our players, even in the face of previous legal obstacles or factors not in our control, such as payment processor defaults and prior actions by the US government which resulted in US player funds being seized.
In all of these previous instances, Full Tilt Poker has covered these losses and intends to do the same again.
4. Why are the Full Tilt Pros remaining silent?
It is not their choice. But they are constrained by the pending legal actions.
As a final note, we understand -- and have always understood -- the effect that our brief statements have had not only on our customers, but also on our reputation. It has not been easy to stay silent and watch the damage being done to our company brand and personal reputations, but we need to be mindful of the complicated and serious legal issues raised in the pending cases.
I mean number 3 is what i thought all along,but you would have to be crazy to put money on there now.Which country is going to be the last one walking in the circle an has no chair to sit in when the music stops.
Here is a brief official update from Full Tilt.
Doug
Quote:
To our customers:
We acknowledge that our lack of communication reflects poorly on us, and rightfully so. We have been too optimistic in estimating how long it would take to sort through the issues we have faced since Black Friday. And as frustrating as the delays have been for us, we recognize that it cannot compare to the frustration you have been feeling.
We further recognize that our lack of communication has led to much speculation and many unsubstantiated rumors, which have often been contradictory. With this message, we hope to clear up as much confusion as we can, while at the same time keeping in mind the constraints imposed on us as a result of the cases brought in the Southern District of New York.
The most pressing questions:
1. When will the US players be paid?
We still do not have a specific timeframe for this. There has been, and remains, no bigger priority than getting US players paid as soon as possible, and we have been working around the clock to get this done.
2. Is FTP bankrupt?
No. FTP's worldwide business is healthy and, although we've had some short-term challenges, it is operating as normal.
From: http://www.gamblingcontrol.org/userf...2020110516.pdf
"The AGCC’s investigation into the affairs of it licensee Vantage Limited, trading as Full Tilt.com, is ongoing; initial investigations indicate no reason to believe that player fund transactions are fundamentally threatened by any consequence of the US authorities' actions. Delays caused by these actions are in the process of resolution, with normal service now being restored for non-US players. We understand that progress in respect of US player fund repatriation is anticipated and will be the subject of a separate statement from Full Tilt in due course. The Commission will remain engaged in this process."
3. What is the company doing to speed up payouts to the US players?
We are raising capital to ensure that the US players are paid out in full as quickly as possible.
It is important to remember that full tilt poker has always paid out our players, even in the face of previous legal obstacles or factors not in our control, such as payment processor defaults and prior actions by the US government which resulted in US player funds being seized.
In all of these previous instances, Full Tilt Poker has covered these losses and intends to do the same again.
4. Why are the Full Tilt Pros remaining silent?
It is not their choice. But they are constrained by the pending legal actions.
As a final note, we understand -- and have always understood -- the effect that our brief statements have had not only on our customers, but also on our reputation. It has not been easy to stay silent and watch the damage being done to our company brand and personal reputations, but we need to be mindful of the complicated and serious legal issues raised in the pending cases.
I mean number 3 is what i thought all along,but you would have to be crazy to put money on there now.Which country is going to be the last one walking in the circle an has no chair to sit in when the music stops.