pokerchris
Legend
Silver Level
If the DOJ can not prove that pokerstars is running illegal gambling, then the laundering money they were laundering are clean money. It's not against law to laundry clean money.
If the DOJ can not prove that pokerstars is running illegal gambling, then the laundering money they were laundering are clean money. It's not against law to laundry clean money.
tpb221
Chasing Gutshots
Silver Level
Yes, it is.
pokerchris
Legend
Silver Level
Originally Posted by pokerchris
If the DOJ can not prove that PokerStars is running illegal gambling, then the laundering money they were laundering are clean money. It's not against law to laundry clean money.
http://www.relentlessdefense.com/ou...-profile-cases/u-s-attorney-s-office-on-tilt/
It's Not Against the Law to Launder Clean Money
Undaunted by the lack of criminal statutes prohibiting online poker, the U.S. Attorney’s Office has indicted the defendants for money laundering in violation of 18 U.S.C. 1956. However, even these indictments are seriously flawed, for 18 U.S.C. 1956 applies only to proceeds of unlawful activity. The statute reads in pertinent part:
(1) Whoever, knowing that the property involved in a financial transaction represents the proceeds of some form of unlawful activity, conducts or attempts to conduct such a financial transaction which in fact involves the proceeds of specified unlawful activity—
(i) with the intent to promote the carrying on of specified unlawful activity; or
(ii) with intent to engage in conduct constituting a violation of section 7201 or 7206 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986; or
(B) knowing that the transaction is designed in whole or in part—
(i) to conceal or disguise the nature, the location, the source, the ownership, or the control of the proceeds of specified unlawful activity; or
(ii) to avoid a transaction reporting requirement under State or Federal law. . . .
Since there is no Federal statute prohibiting online poker, the U.S. Attorney’s pursuit of these defendants is, at best, misplaced and, again, unethical. After all, prosecutors cannot charge a person with laundering clean money.
If the DOJ can not prove that PokerStars is running illegal gambling, then the laundering money they were laundering are clean money. It's not against law to laundry clean money.
http://www.relentlessdefense.com/ou...-profile-cases/u-s-attorney-s-office-on-tilt/
It's Not Against the Law to Launder Clean Money
Undaunted by the lack of criminal statutes prohibiting online poker, the U.S. Attorney’s Office has indicted the defendants for money laundering in violation of 18 U.S.C. 1956. However, even these indictments are seriously flawed, for 18 U.S.C. 1956 applies only to proceeds of unlawful activity. The statute reads in pertinent part:
(1) Whoever, knowing that the property involved in a financial transaction represents the proceeds of some form of unlawful activity, conducts or attempts to conduct such a financial transaction which in fact involves the proceeds of specified unlawful activity—
(i) with the intent to promote the carrying on of specified unlawful activity; or
(ii) with intent to engage in conduct constituting a violation of section 7201 or 7206 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986; or
(B) knowing that the transaction is designed in whole or in part—
(i) to conceal or disguise the nature, the location, the source, the ownership, or the control of the proceeds of specified unlawful activity; or
(ii) to avoid a transaction reporting requirement under State or Federal law. . . .
Since there is no Federal statute prohibiting online poker, the U.S. Attorney’s pursuit of these defendants is, at best, misplaced and, again, unethical. After all, prosecutors cannot charge a person with laundering clean money.
tpb221
Chasing Gutshots
Silver Level
This
Let me put it this way, it's bank fraud. Don't miss understand me, I think poker stars might be able to beat this though if given a chance they will settle.
It's against the law to hide or decieve banks from where money is comming/going to.
Let me put it this way, it's bank fraud. Don't miss understand me, I think poker stars might be able to beat this though if given a chance they will settle.
pokerchris
Legend
Silver Level
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering
Money laundering is the practice of disguising the origins of illegally-obtained money. Ultimately, it is the process by which the proceeds of crime are made to appear legitimate. The money involved can be generated by any number of criminal acts, including drug dealing, corruption, accounting and other types of fraud, and tax evasion.[1] The methods by which money may be laundered are varied and can range in sophistication from simple to complex
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/moneylaundering.asp
What Does Money Laundering Mean?
The process of creating the appearance that large amounts of money obtained from serious crimes, such as drug trafficking or terrorist activity, originated from a legitimate source.
The money has to be obtained from crime(s) i.e. dirty money. Even the bank fraud stands it's still clean money.
rowhousepd
Rock Star
Silver Level
Actually, the May bluff magazine issue was printed literally a day or two before black Friday. Terrible timing, but at least for them they just happened to miss the story. Did Card Player really not cover this at all?!? WTF?! I mean this basically has been THE only story in the poker world, and probably will be until the wsop, regardless of what country you're in. Weird.
dmorris68
Legend
Loyaler
As someone else mentioned, hardcopy magazines are layed out and printed well in advance of when they hit the newstands and mailboxes. With some it happens (or at least used to) 2-3 months before release, but even now the most nimble publishers probably need a couple weeks at least.
dj11
Legend
Silver Level
These mags are not your typical mags in that traditional sense. These are the weeklies u find at the front door of every casino. While much of the content can be generic and available with long lead times, the majority of the stuff is relatively timely, and ads can be pulled in hours.
These fall in the category of those weekly ad mags that come in the mail, or get thrown on your lawn. So certainly a month out from Black Friday, the effects are being shown.
Now ad in the pending WSOP, which last years (and previous years) was plumping these rags up with hype, much from online sites, and the tacky fingers of the DoJ have shown at least some 'unintended consequences'.
P
PlayedYou73
Visionary
Silver Level
Yes I am "totally" living in another world. The world where the DOJ/FBI "actually did" file dozens of charges against the three major sites, filed arrest warrants against nine people or so, are going after the sites for approximately $3 billion dollars in fines and forfeitures, filed criminal charges, some of which have 25+ year jail terms tied to them.
I guess the prosecutors in the Southern District of New York, which is regarded as the best office for prosecuting financial crimes in the United States is just "making all this up"? Poker players obviously know more about this whole situation then they do....I guess they filed all those charges just for "the hell of it".
Geez...who's the one living in another world???
LarkMarlow
Legend
Silver Level
Now that I think about it, the lead time for magazines is a bare minimum of 6 weeks, so we'll see if the upcoming issues of CP delve into the matter further than the one page article I mentioned.
What CardPlayer did do, which is quite obvious because of the significant reduction in page count, is remove all online site ads except for their own. In addtion, as I said, there are no articles about online poker--no leaderboards, no featured player pieces, no strategy, no tournament reports. Dusty Schmidt's column is also missing.
This is a huge change from their coverage in recent years, which had become increasingly focussed on online play. For instance, the May 10 issue featured a cover photo of Dan Cates with the lead article "King of the Online Jungle", and contained many pieces about online play.
What CardPlayer did do, which is quite obvious because of the significant reduction in page count, is remove all online site ads except for their own. In addtion, as I said, there are no articles about online poker--no leaderboards, no featured player pieces, no strategy, no tournament reports. Dusty Schmidt's column is also missing.
This is a huge change from their coverage in recent years, which had become increasingly focussed on online play. For instance, the May 10 issue featured a cover photo of Dan Cates with the lead article "King of the Online Jungle", and contained many pieces about online play.
Charade You Are
you can call me Frost
Silver Level
Way to get away from your orignal "rake" argument, which is what Styb was addressing.
This is money laundering: March 18 (Bloomberg) -- Wells Fargo & Co.’s Wachovia Bank agreed to pay $160 million to resolve a criminal investigation of how drug cartels used the bank to launder money through Mexican exchange houses.
The government agreed to defer prosecution on a criminal charge that Wachovia admitted failing to monitor $420 billion in transactions through exchange houses, known as casas de cambio.
And btw, having charges files against you is a far cry from being found guilty.
tbdbitl
Legend
Silver Level
Since the UIGEA makes it illegal for banks to transfer money to illegal online gambling sites, where can I find the list of illegal online gambling sites? Or, better yet show me what is, by law, illegal online gambling.
I see the horse, is the cart behind it?
I see the horse, is the cart behind it?
the Styb
Rock Star
Silver Level
Good thing for Spencer Bacchus they still allow four martini lunches on the Hill…
How the hell he manages to add child porn into the poker debate is nothing short of amazing. Pure redneck boogie-man scare tactics. And let's not forget that this pasty twerp helped to nearly destroy the economy a few years ago by helping to repeal Glass-Steagall. Essentially that allowed banks to go nuts in the speculation markets and merge with insurance and securities traders into the "too big to fail" monstrosities that we're still paying for.
And now he's the HFSC chair… time to invest in a shovel and some Mason jars…
How the hell he manages to add child porn into the poker debate is nothing short of amazing. Pure redneck boogie-man scare tactics. And let's not forget that this pasty twerp helped to nearly destroy the economy a few years ago by helping to repeal Glass-Steagall. Essentially that allowed banks to go nuts in the speculation markets and merge with insurance and securities traders into the "too big to fail" monstrosities that we're still paying for.
And now he's the HFSC chair… time to invest in a shovel and some Mason jars…
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tbdbitl
Legend
Silver Level
I think the moron behind door #1 should start taking a look at what is right or wrong with himself and his actions, rather than try to control other people!:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-09-23-1289388547_x.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-09-23-1289388547_x.htm
dj11
Legend
Silver Level
Of the 3 speakers in those UTubes (3 years old BTW) Ron Paul had the sanest position.
However, a pure libertarian regime won't work any better than a pure moral based (can u say Taliban), or Capitalist based (Barbarianism at its most modern) or Socialist based(too lazy for its own good) systems would.
The most important thing Ron Paul said was that the kids issue is the responsibility of the parents. I for one would beef up that idea to the point of advocating parents get nailed when their kids misbehave. So if a kid commits murder, the parents do life in prison along with the kid.
And as you can clearly see I think the kid issue is the bane of individual freedoms.
However, a pure libertarian regime won't work any better than a pure moral based (can u say Taliban), or Capitalist based (Barbarianism at its most modern) or Socialist based(too lazy for its own good) systems would.
The most important thing Ron Paul said was that the kids issue is the responsibility of the parents. I for one would beef up that idea to the point of advocating parents get nailed when their kids misbehave. So if a kid commits murder, the parents do life in prison along with the kid.
And as you can clearly see I think the kid issue is the bane of individual freedoms.
Charade You Are
you can call me Frost
Silver Level
I know they were 3 years old, HR5767 was the bill Barney Frank proposed to which would have prohibited the Treasury Department and Federal Reserve from "proposing, prescribing or implementing" any regulations under the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA). And it is scary that Bachus is the House Financial Services Committee Chairman.
H.R.1174
Latest Title: Internet Gambling Regulation, Consumer Protection, and Enforcement Act
Sponsor: Rep Campbell, John (introduced 3/17/2011) Cosponsors (22)
ALL ACTIONS:
3/17/2011: Referred to the Committee on Financial Services, and in addition to the Committees on the Judiciary, and Energy and Commerce, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned.
3/17/2011: Referred to House Financial Services
3/17/2011: Referred to House Judiciary
3/17/2011: Referred to House Energy and Commerce
3/28/2011: Referred to the Subcommittee on Commerce, Manufacturing, and Trade.
4/4/2011: Referred to the Subcommittee on Financial Institutions and Consumer Credit.
Co-sponsors: (If your guy is on the list-thank him)
COSPONSORS(22), ALPHABETICAL
Rep Ackerman, Gary L. [NY-5] - 5/13/2011
Rep Berkley, Shelley [NV-1] - 5/13/2011
Rep Biggert, Judy [IL-13] - 5/13/2011
Rep Blumenauer, Earl [OR-3] - 5/13/2011
Rep Capuano, Michael E. [MA-8] - 5/13/2011
Rep Cohen, Steve [TN-9] - 5/13/2011
Rep Conyers, John, Jr. [MI-14] - 5/13/2011
Rep Frank, Barney [MA-4] - 3/17/2011
Rep Honda, Michael M. [CA-15] - 5/13/2011
Rep King, Peter T. [NY-3] - 3/17/2011
Rep Larson, John B. [CT-1] - 5/13/2011
Rep McCarthy, Carolyn [NY-4] - 5/13/2011
Rep McGovern, James P. [MA-3] - 5/13/2011
Rep Miller, George [CA-7] - 5/13/2011
Rep Owens, William L. [NY-23] - 5/13/2011
Rep Paul, Ron [TX-14] - 5/13/2011
Rep Perlmutter, Ed [CO-7] - 3/17/2011
Rep Polis, Jared [CO-2] - 5/13/2011
Rep Rangel, Charles B. [NY-15] - 5/13/2011
Rep Scott, Robert C. "Bobby" [VA-3] - 5/13/2011
Rep Woolsey, Lynn C. [CA-6] - 5/13/2011
Rep Young, Don [AK] - 5/13/2011
H.R.1174
Latest Title: Internet Gambling Regulation, Consumer Protection, and Enforcement Act
Sponsor: Rep Campbell, John (introduced 3/17/2011) Cosponsors (22)
ALL ACTIONS:
3/17/2011: Referred to the Committee on Financial Services, and in addition to the Committees on the Judiciary, and Energy and Commerce, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned.
3/17/2011: Referred to House Financial Services
3/17/2011: Referred to House Judiciary
3/17/2011: Referred to House Energy and Commerce
3/28/2011: Referred to the Subcommittee on Commerce, Manufacturing, and Trade.
4/4/2011: Referred to the Subcommittee on Financial Institutions and Consumer Credit.
Co-sponsors: (If your guy is on the list-thank him)
COSPONSORS(22), ALPHABETICAL
Rep Ackerman, Gary L. [NY-5] - 5/13/2011
Rep Berkley, Shelley [NV-1] - 5/13/2011
Rep Biggert, Judy [IL-13] - 5/13/2011
Rep Blumenauer, Earl [OR-3] - 5/13/2011
Rep Capuano, Michael E. [MA-8] - 5/13/2011
Rep Cohen, Steve [TN-9] - 5/13/2011
Rep Conyers, John, Jr. [MI-14] - 5/13/2011
Rep Frank, Barney [MA-4] - 3/17/2011
Rep Honda, Michael M. [CA-15] - 5/13/2011
Rep King, Peter T. [NY-3] - 3/17/2011
Rep Larson, John B. [CT-1] - 5/13/2011
Rep McCarthy, Carolyn [NY-4] - 5/13/2011
Rep McGovern, James P. [MA-3] - 5/13/2011
Rep Miller, George [CA-7] - 5/13/2011
Rep Owens, William L. [NY-23] - 5/13/2011
Rep Paul, Ron [TX-14] - 5/13/2011
Rep Perlmutter, Ed [CO-7] - 3/17/2011
Rep Polis, Jared [CO-2] - 5/13/2011
Rep Rangel, Charles B. [NY-15] - 5/13/2011
Rep Scott, Robert C. "Bobby" [VA-3] - 5/13/2011
Rep Woolsey, Lynn C. [CA-6] - 5/13/2011
Rep Young, Don [AK] - 5/13/2011
Charade You Are
you can call me Frost
Silver Level
Dec 14, 2010 Bauchus said, "In Washington, the view is that the banks are to be regulated, and my view is that Washington and the regulators are there to serve the banks."
Gee, I thought that Congress was there to serve the people? Silly me.
cardriverx
Legend
Silver Level
"UPDATED: When will I be able to withdraw my account balance?
full tilt poker is diligently working on facilitating the withdrawal of funds for US Players - this is our top priority. We are sorry for the delay and will update you with any progress made by Sunday, May 15th" - Full Tilt's FAQ page
Where is the update....?
full tilt poker is diligently working on facilitating the withdrawal of funds for US Players - this is our top priority. We are sorry for the delay and will update you with any progress made by Sunday, May 15th" - Full Tilt's FAQ page
Where is the update....?
cardriverx
Legend
Silver Level
This doesn't sound good...
Here's the official statement about where we currently stand on US withdrawals:
"Since April 15th and the days immediately following, Full Tilt Poker faced numerous challenges and hurdles to ensuring the smooth operation of its international business and the orderly return of US player funds. FTP has worked tirelessly to address these issues and has made significant progress on both fronts. FTP's international business operations are returning to normal while we focus on ensuring the safe and orderly return of US player deposits. We are absolutely committed to making sure that US players are refunded as soon as possible. We apologize for the delay and the fact that we underestimated the time it would take to work through these issues. We will update our US players when we have more specific information to provide." - FullTilt
Seems like we might be waiting for a while.
Here's the official statement about where we currently stand on US withdrawals:
"Since April 15th and the days immediately following, Full Tilt Poker faced numerous challenges and hurdles to ensuring the smooth operation of its international business and the orderly return of US player funds. FTP has worked tirelessly to address these issues and has made significant progress on both fronts. FTP's international business operations are returning to normal while we focus on ensuring the safe and orderly return of US player deposits. We are absolutely committed to making sure that US players are refunded as soon as possible. We apologize for the delay and the fact that we underestimated the time it would take to work through these issues. We will update our US players when we have more specific information to provide." - FullTilt
Seems like we might be waiting for a while.
coolnout
Legend
Silver Level
Ya I'm really bummed. I was hoping this would be worked out by the start of the WSOP.
curly
Rock Star
Silver Level
I didn't want to start a thread just for asking these questions so I'm going to ask it here:
Would it currently be legal for a poker site to offer prizes or seats to other events such as the WPT or WSOP, just for entering and potentially winning play money tournaments?
Is it legal for a gambling site to charge a monthly fee to their members for unlimited play for a set monthly charge, but actually be wagering play money and offering real prizes for winning?
Now by prizes I mean actual items such as Ipads, BluRay players, 3D televisions and stuff like that, the reason I ask these questions is I am seeing a lot of ads online about places like these and just wondered how legit it really is.
I actually know of an online casino that charges a monthly rate were members can subscribe and play as much as they want and have the opportunity to win real prizes without actually wagering real money, and they have everything from blackjack to Keno there, I'm not gonna mention their name but I know for a fact they currently accept U.S. players.
If this kind of stuff is legal I would like to know how they are able to do it.
Thank You in advance for your feedback on this.
Would it currently be legal for a poker site to offer prizes or seats to other events such as the WPT or WSOP, just for entering and potentially winning play money tournaments?
Is it legal for a gambling site to charge a monthly fee to their members for unlimited play for a set monthly charge, but actually be wagering play money and offering real prizes for winning?
Now by prizes I mean actual items such as Ipads, BluRay players, 3D televisions and stuff like that, the reason I ask these questions is I am seeing a lot of ads online about places like these and just wondered how legit it really is.
I actually know of an online casino that charges a monthly rate were members can subscribe and play as much as they want and have the opportunity to win real prizes without actually wagering real money, and they have everything from blackjack to Keno there, I'm not gonna mention their name but I know for a fact they currently accept U.S. players.
If this kind of stuff is legal I would like to know how they are able to do it.
Thank You in advance for your feedback on this.
absoluthamm
<==Poker Face
Silver Level
So like ClubWPT? Those are legal, but technically so are Stars and Tilt, the banks just can't put money on them for you...