Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

Figaroo2

Figaroo2

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Should I be folding on the flop re-raise? I opted to call, but what is my best option after all is said and done?

MP: $21.17 (84.7 bb) vp/pf/ag%/ag/3b : 33/25/36%/1.9/5.0% (81 hands)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J
club4.gif
K
club4.gif

MP raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $2.20, 3 folds, MP calls $1.45

Flop: ($4.75) K
spade4.gif
4
diamond4.gif
6
heart4.gif
(2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $2.25, MP raises to $5.50, Hero calls $3.25

Turn: ($15.75) Q
heart4.gif
(2 players)
MP bets $7

Hero??

FOLD... the main question to ask yourself is what are you actually still beating that raises on this board other than a bluff? Nothing really, most likely you are simply outkicked and its going to cost you to find out.
Second question is,,,,what is this guys normal aggression like......answer= passive anytime anyone with an AF under two (agg% under 40) who throws in a raise you know its got to be strong.
The third question to ask is, how likely am I to improve to a better hand if I do call? Here with no clubs and no flush possibilities you have to hit a J to stand any chance and even then there is a good chance you are still behind. Relying on runner runner for a straight is big time spew. Yes this has to be a fold on the flop against this player type.
 
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ph0n3_j4ck

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Yeah, it was an easy fold. I'm just wondering if I should have folded on the flop re-raise instead. Now that I look back... I think I should have.
 
Figaroo2

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Pacific, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

SB: $16.72 (83.6 bb) Marked as a decent reg 20/18/agg51% in 383 hands. 9.8% 3bet
BB: $20 (100 bb)
UTG+1: $7.88 (39.4 bb)
UTG+2: $18.08 (90.4 bb)
MP1: $24.73 (123.7 bb)
MP2: $30.57 (152.9 bb)
MP3: $23.22 (116.1 bb) FISH
Hero (CO): $23.22 (116.1 bb)
BTN: $40.76 (203.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A T
4 folds, MP3 raises to $0.60, Hero calls $0.60,
(WHY am I not three betting here, after the hand its an obvious spot against a fish and avoids what follows) BTN folds, SB raises to $2.10, 2 folds,
I had a peek at the SB positional stats at this point; He is 17% squeeze.and he was 23% 3 bet from the SB, probably the highest I've ever noted at these stakes, for a reg, over 383 odd hands, i'm not sure he needs much to raise here. I think I'm in front of him even with AT here, I consider 4 betting him straight off but its not going to look strong after the previous call.
Hero calls $1.50

Flop: ($5) 9 7 5 (2 players)
SB bets $2.50, (POT is now $7.50) Hero raises to $6.25, SB calls $3.75
I'm not sure about sizing? This board sits well with my callers range here.

Turn: ($17.50) J (2 players)
SB checks,
Hero bets $14.87 and is all-in
,
Can we peel the river and see if we hit the flush or do we just shove now?
 
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rhombus

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http://acepokersolutions.com/poker-blog/how-to-train-your-game-in-poker/

So this post is my personal poker story. At least, how I got started, and I how studied the game so I could be successful at it. I also intertwine some of my business story, since it goes hand in hand. It's a lot of text, but hopefully some useful info as well. I tried to break down some of the important parts of when I JUST started and what I focused on and how I trained.

Interesting story and a good read :)
 
John A

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Should I be folding on the flop re-raise? I opted to call, but what is my best option after all is said and done?
Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $35.42 (141.7 bb)
BB: $23.96 (95.8 bb)
MP: $21.17 (84.7 bb) vp/pf/ag%/ag/3b : 33/25/36%/1.9/5.0% (81 hands)
Hero (CO): $72.52 (290.1 bb) vp/pf/ag%/ag/3b : 19/16/30%/1.8/6.5% (82 hands)
BTN: $25.98 (103.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J
club4.gif
K
club4.gif

MP raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $2.20, 3 folds, MP calls $1.45

Flop: ($4.75) K
spade4.gif
4
diamond4.gif
6
heart4.gif
(2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $2.25, MP raises to $5.50, Hero calls $3.25

Turn: ($15.75) Q
heart4.gif
(2 players)
MP bets $7

Hero??

NH. These are some tough spots for a couple of reasons. Your opponent is playing too many hands and his aggression isn't quite clear yet. It doesn't look like he's too aggressive, but you don't know for sure yet. I'd classify him as a bad LAG with likely poor post flop skills, since he's also not fully loaded. The AF won't normalize here yet, and the hand count isn't a lot. But he's aggressive enough to make some plays probably.

It's such a dry board, it doesn't make a ton of sense for him to check min raise. A check min raise with pretty much any hand is horrible here. So the decision in these spots really is about the player interpretation. The play he's making here is dumb and bad unless he's looking for a cheap bluff. He looks like he might be bad enough to make this play with a value hand, but it's unclear. He might also be bad enough to make this play with TT-QQ because he doesn't know what to do, or even KT, which I would say is still in his range. He'll also be 4-betting AK x% of the time. So being out kicked really comes mostly down to KQ.

If you just call on the flop, you're going to be stuck on the turn if he bets. You'll pretty much have to fold unless you hit a K or J. So your options are:

A) Fold on the flop to the min raise. Pretty weak considering you have top pair with decent kicker.
B) Call, and see what he does on the turn.
C) Re-raise.

Some people might be surprised but I'm not a fan of A here based on the opponent. I'd lean more towards B or C. And in this case, I'd probably lean towards B since I don't think my opponent is aggro enough to push me off hands. His turn bet is super weak though. You just called a flop check raise. So his hand gets super polarized here imho to near nuts or weak hand that was clicking buttons on the flop and now doesn't know what to do when called.

I also don't mind C with a small re-raise on these kinds of boards against more aggressive opponents. Simply because you're in such a weird spot on the turn with 100BB stacks. I think when it's not in real time, it's very easy to say, call, keep his air in and then shove over on the turn if you think you're ahead. But in real time, when you're multi-tabling and trying to figure out what kind of opponent his is, sometimes a small re-raise in position will let you know 100% where you are. My dreaded info raise. lol It's really for value though and so that you don't get stuck on the turn.

So I think you played it fine if you folded the turn, but I'm super suspicious about that bet sizing. It's really polarized, but for me, just looking at his stats and not seeing his play overall, I wouldn't have enough info to say, yes, we're likely still ahead.
 
John A

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I have trouble playing in the small blind with these type of hands (77 and below) in unopened pots. My thought process was that the villain definitely did not hit the 4, but his range definitely could have hit that 7 as he flatted me on the flop (2 overs is not out of the question too, but I rather him have two overs). It just doesn't make sense why he was betting so aggressively to rep the 7 and the 10 though. How I can improve on playing these type of hands in the SB in unopened pots and what I should be doing in this hand specifically?

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): $26.41 (105.6 bb) VP/Pfr/ag%/AG : 20/18/30%/1.8 (83 hands)
BB: $23.68 (94.7 bb) VP/Pfr/ag%/AG : 32/9/55%/6.0 (80 hands)
MP: $24.65 (98.6 bb)
CO: $19.91 (79.6 bb)
BTN: $31.88 (127.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6
club4.gif
6
spade4.gif

MP folds, CO calls $0.25, BTN folds, Hero raises to $0.75, BB calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.25) 7
diamond4.gif
4
heart4.gif
4
club4.gif
(3 players)
Hero bets $1.25, BB calls $1.25, CO folds

Turn: ($4.75) T
spade4.gif
(2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $2.87, Hero calls $2.87

River: ($10.49) 5
diamond4.gif
(2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $6.49

So first, I'd raise more pre-flop so that you're not inviting the BB to jump in with almost any two. If you're going to raise OOP with these hands, you need to be HU's to play them profitably. I know we're all little Ivey's, but that's the reality. :)

I'd also bet a little more on the flop. I don't mind betting small there, but know why you're doing it. He's an aggro player, so he's going to float you with a lot of hands. If that's the case, then have a play for what you're doing. "I'm betting small to get him to float me with Ax so I can c/c the turn", etc... With small pairs, I wouldn't mess around too much though. So I don't mind the check call on the turn, and with his aggression I'd probably call him down on the river. You're correct. His aggression and bet sizing doesn't make a ton of sense unless he called with 4x and hit bingo, which could be the case since he likes to play a lot of hands and he just needed to call 2 more BB's to be in the pot.
 
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Thanks John and all.

Anyone up for sweating who also plays 10/25nl 6max? Please pm
 
Figaroo2

Figaroo2

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Too nitty? And is raising the flop here the cheapest exit reasonable strategy?

poker stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

SB: $34.29 (137.2 bb) Rock 11/11/ag 25 in 38 hands
BB: $25.10 (100.4 bb)
UTG+1: $15.99 (64 bb)
UTG+2: $7.64 (30.6 bb)
Hero (MP1): $25 (100 bb)
MP2: $10.74 (43 bb)
MP3: $25.10 (100.4 bb)
CO: $32.35 (129.4 bb)
BTN: $25 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q:club: Q:heart:
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 4 folds, SB raises to $2.25, BB folds, Hero calls $1.50

Flop: ($4.75) 2:club: 6:diamond: 5:heart: (2 players)
SB bets $2.76, Hero raises to $5.52, SB raises to $11.25, Hero folds

Results: $15.79 pot ($0.71 rake)
Final Board: 2:club: 6:diamond: 5:heart:
SB mucked and won $15.08 ($7.31 net)
Hero mucked Q:club: Q:heart: and lost (-$7.77 net)
 
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rhombus

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Too nitty? And is raising the flop here the cheapest exit reasonable strategy?

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

SB: $34.29 (137.2 bb) Rock 11/11/ag 25 in 38 hands
BB: $25.10 (100.4 bb)
UTG+1: $15.99 (64 bb)
UTG+2: $7.64 (30.6 bb)
Hero (MP1): $25 (100 bb)
MP2: $10.74 (43 bb)
MP3: $25.10 (100.4 bb)
CO: $32.35 (129.4 bb)
BTN: $25 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q Q
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 4 folds, SB raises to $2.25, BB folds, Hero calls $1.50

Flop: ($4.75) 2 6 5 (2 players)
SB bets $2.76, Hero raises to $5.52, SB raises to $11.25, Hero folds

Results: $15.79 pot ($0.71 rake)
Final Board: 2 6 5
SB mucked and won $15.08 ($7.31 net)
Hero mucked Q Q and lost (-$7.77 net)
Way too Nitty

Tight Stats but you only have 38 hands on him
even if you put him on Sets 22, 55 and 66 and over pairs 77, 88, 99, TT, JJ, QQ, KK, AA you are still 56%
 

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rhombus

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Just plugged an even tighter range and its 50/50
TT, JJ, QQ, KK, AA

unless you are psychic and only See KK and AA or can dodge bullets, otherwise shove it in :)
 

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Figaroo2

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I agree its nitty but how much more evidence do we need before it becomes a fold then?.
His stats although not confirmed by any means are pointing towards a tight player. I have been playing TAG and not getting out of line. He three bets from the SB over MP1 which looks strong so I call. We get a low flop as he has tons of combos of AK JJ TT AQ s I raise his flop 3 bet and he is still willing to gii.
 
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rhombus

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not sure at what point you can solely put him on KK and AA, I suppose when you look at the SPR on the flop which is about 4.5, I'd be inclined to Call, if you was both deep stacked maybe 150 BB before the hands then you can find a fold as you haven't commited too much to the hand and it is a very dryish flop for a 3Bet.

Maybe someone can help more with SPRs at what would be a fair line to be commited, medium SPR or too Deep
 
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rhombus

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Hi all. I was wondering if you could go through my stats and see if they are standard? Im kinda breakeven right now and I feel im playing really well, I dont know whats going wrong though. I play 25nl 6max

(14k hand sample)

VPIP: 17
PFR: 14
3b: 5.1%
WTSD%: 25.4
W$SD%: 55.5
AF: 2.54

PF steal: 30.6
Flop fold vs cbet: 55.7
Flop cbet: 45.8
W$WSF: 42
Fold to 3b pre: 72

Is it aggression? I feel im playing aggressive pre and postflop with draws etc so I dont know why its low.

Thanks

Thanks for posting... I mean, there are several things going on here. We've gone over this quite a bit, does anyone have some summaries of how these stats should start to look for Arran?

Comparing it to the Leakbuster HUD for 6Max
VPIP: 17 On the Tight Side Optimal 19-26
PFR: 14 On the Tight Side Optimal 15-22.2
3b: 5.1% In the Optimal Range although ideally 7-8
WTSD%: 25.4 Bottom end of optimal 25-35
W$SD%: 55.5 Not sure as not in HUD is this a similar stat to WWSF%
AF: 2.54 Not Sure as Not in HUD Agg% about 37%
 
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Thanks rhombus.

Figaroo on that hand why not just call? I don't think raising to get a cheap escape is a reason to raise but I could be wrong
 
Figaroo2

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Thanks rhombus.

Figaroo on that hand why not just call? I don't think raising to get a cheap escape is a reason to raise but I could be wrong

Why not just call? Because we get no information on the strength of his hand and do we keep calling to the end (and likely allin by the end) if undercards keep coming in? What if we call and a K or A comes later then we have to give up.
I think taking a stand on the flop saves us money in the long run here. Yes we might fold out worse but with the pot already bloated by 3 betting I'm happy with that with QQ which is still only a one pair hand here.
In one of John A's recent posts he says "sometimes a small re-raise in position will let you know 100% where you are. My dreaded info raise. lol It's really for value though and so that you don't get stuck on the turn". I think this is valid here.
If we make his 3 bet range JJ+ we beat all the combos of AK (16) and JJ (6)
AK is likely to fold and JJ folds or calls but doesn't reraise.
and we lose to 6 combos of KK and 6 of AA and tie with one combo of QQ so we are ahead here more often than not.
When he raises our flop reraise I almost certain we are toast. I'm actually thinking it was a good fold now.
There may have been a case for 4 betting pre but we can't 4 bet fold QQ so we would have to get it in pre if he shoves which I wouldn't be happy with against a tight player in these circumstances. If he was in anyway loose its a whole different ballgame.
 
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Arran

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I just think in general raising for info is a bad mindset to have
What if he calls flop, turn chk/chk, board bricks out and he bets river are you calling?
+ keeps his occasional bluffs in
I would also fold to the re-raise on flop
 
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rhombus

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Posted in PP2 Thread by mistake

Been reading a few chapters in Volume 1 and noticed a couple of possible errors and wondering if I have the latest version or has it been updated.

Version I have is
Poker by the Book: Polished Poker – Volume I v1.2


Page 25
If you have AdTc on a flop of AsQdTh, you'll know that there are only 5 combinations of sets, 16 combinations of a flopped straight, and 9 combinations of a higher two pair that beat you for a total of 30 combinations. There are only 9 combinations of worse two pairs that you beat, and 4 that you split with.
shouldnt it be

6 higher two pair total 27
6 lower pair combinations


Page 74
Let's contrast this with a hand like JJ that you'd typically 3-bet for value in most spots. Sometimes you might look to flat. The exact opposite becomes true with a hand like JJ. You crush your opponent’s equity pre-flop versus the exact same range as above, but your pre-flop equity decreases versus their calling range, and doesn't increase like in the AQo example.

On the pictures AQ loses equity against a calling range as well

Page 89 4Betting
Not sure if error maybe I dont understand as I'm not sure where the +6.3 BB come from

3. If your opponent is opening 10% of his range, and jamming only 3%, then they'll be folding roughly 70% of the time to a 4-bet.
14.5(.70) - 23(.3) = + 3.3 BBs
4. 4-bet bluffing in this situation has a net profit of +6.3 BBs, since if you fold you're losing 3 BBs 100% of the time.
 
John A

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Posted in PP2 Thread by mistake

Been reading a few chapters in Volume 1 and noticed a couple of possible errors and wondering if I have the latest version or has it been updated.

Version I have is
Poker by the Book: Polished Poker – Volume I v1.2


Page 25
If you have AdTc on a flop of AsQdTh, you'll know that there are only 5 combinations of sets, 16 combinations of a flopped straight, and 9 combinations of a higher two pair that beat you for a total of 30 combinations. There are only 9 combinations of worse two pairs that you beat, and 4 that you split with.
shouldnt it be

6 higher two pair total 27
6 lower pair combinations


Page 74
Let's contrast this with a hand like JJ that you'd typically 3-bet for value in most spots. Sometimes you might look to flat. The exact opposite becomes true with a hand like JJ. You crush your opponent’s equity pre-flop versus the exact same range as above, but your pre-flop equity decreases versus their calling range, and doesn't increase like in the AQo example.

On the pictures AQ loses equity against a calling range as well

Page 89 4Betting
Not sure if error maybe I dont understand as I'm not sure where the +6.3 BB come from

3. If your opponent is opening 10% of his range, and jamming only 3%, then they'll be folding roughly 70% of the time to a 4-bet.
14.5(.70) - 23(.3) = + 3.3 BBs
4. 4-bet bluffing in this situation has a net profit of +6.3 BBs, since if you fold you're losing 3 BBs 100% of the time.

Sorry, I'll go back over this when I have some time, but the answer to your first question is no. How can you have 27 when the only higher two pair is AQ?
 
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rhombus

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Sorry, I'll go back over this when I have some time, but the answer to your first question is no. How can you have 27 when the only higher two pair is AQ?
30 was the total combos in statement below, but if you can only have 6 combos of a higher two pair (AQ) then it will be reduced to 27.

If you have AdTc on a flop of AsQdTh, you'll know that there are only 5 combinations of sets, 16 combinations of a flopped straight, and 9 combinations of a higher two pair that beat you for a total of 30 combinations.
 
John A

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Yes, Ad is removed. Gotcha.... thanks!
 
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OK play?

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

MP2 ($5.41)
MP3 ($2.41)
CO ($5)
Hero (Button) ($5)
SB ($5.09)--Total Fish.. calls down top pair no kicker on a very wet board facing aggression
BB ($6.03)
UTG ($5)
UTG+1 ($6.94)
MP1 ($3.42)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 10
diamond.gif
, K
club.gif

6 folds, Hero raises to $0.11, SB calls $0.09, BB calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.33) 9
diamond.gif
, J
heart.gif
, Q
diamond.gif
(3 players)
SB bets $0.10, BB calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.43, SB calls $0.33, BB calls $0.33

Turn: ($1.62) 7
diamond.gif
(3 players)
SB bets $0.20, BB calls $0.20, Hero folds

River: ($2.02) K
heart.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $0.10, BB raises to $1.49, SB calls $1.39

Total pot: $5 | Rake: $0.21

Results below:
SB didn't show
BB had K
diamond.gif
, 2
diamond.gif
(flush, King high).
Outcome: BB won $4.79
 
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rhombus

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Should Bet Sizing have told me to fold, weak Flop Bet then nearly Pot on Turn and River

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): $11.79 (117.9 bb)
BB: $16.93 (169.3 bb)
UTG: $11.48 (114.8 bb)
MP: $8.79 (87.9 bb)
CO: $11.63 (116.3 bb)
BTN: $10 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J
diamond4.gif
J
spade4.gif

UTG folds, MP raises to $0.30, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.25, BB folds

Flop: ($0.70) 2
spade4.gif
3
spade4.gif
5
heart4.gif
(2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30

Turn: ($1.30) 9
club4.gif
(2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $1.24, Hero calls $1.24

River: ($3.78) 7
diamond4.gif
(2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $3.61, Hero calls $3.61

Results: $11 pot ($0.50 rake)
Final Board: 2
spade4.gif
3
spade4.gif
5
heart4.gif
9
club4.gif
7
diamond4.gif

Hero mucked J
diamond4.gif
J
spade4.gif
and lost (-$5.45 net)
MP showed K
spade4.gif
K
diamond4.gif
and won $10.50 ($5.05 net)
 
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rhombus

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This month alot better start than last few months, not sure reasons, only difference I have deliberately done is reduce PF bet sizing to 0.25 instead of 30c.

Month could have been alot better except for 2 bad hands tonight especially AA when 250 BB deep, they shove $22 on Q93r with KK and hit the K :(
 

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letting our opponents bluff, correct spot?

Pacific, $0.03/$0.06 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

Hero (SB): $8.06 (134.3 bb)
BB: $3.40 (56.7 bb)
UTG: $5.59 (93.2 bb) fish
MP: $3 (50 bb)
CO: $7.40 (123.3 bb)
BTN: $7.38 (123 bb) fish

Preflop: Hero is SB with K:heart: A:diamond:
MP posts BB OOP, UTG calls $0.06, MP checks, CO folds, BTN raises to $0.12, Hero raises to $0.28, BB folds, UTG calls $0.22, MP folds, BTN calls $0.16

Flop: ($0.96) Q:heart: A:heart: 4:diamond: (3 players)
Hero bets $0.72, UTG calls $0.72, BTN folds

Turn: ($2.40) 5:diamond: (2 players)
Hero bets $1.80, UTG calls $1.80

River: ($6) 2:spade: (2 players)

OK TWO BUSTED FLUSHES HERE SHOULD WE GIVE THE VILLAIN A CHANCE TO BLUFF HERE OR JUST BET FOR VALUE?

Hero checks, UTG bets $2.79 and is all-in, Hero calls $2.79

Results: $11.58 pot ($0.68 rake)
Final Board: Q:heart: A:heart: 4:diamond: 5:diamond: 2:spade:
Hero showed K:heart: A:diamond: and won $10.90 ($5.31 net)
UTG showed 6:heart: 5:spade: and lost (-$5.59 net)
 
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