John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
And these aren't strict guidelines. Personally 20 or so is fine. If you start getting creamed when you move up, say drop 10 or so buy-ins, move back down and re-build.
M
mottotom27
Rock Star
Silver Level
So if i have $350 i should only move down when i drop to $250? or is this too large of a hit to my bankroll?
Figaroo2
Legend
Bronze Level
Can we still post hands for feed back here?
Right villain?
poker stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
SB: $20.83 (83.3 bb)
BB: $11.86 (47.4 bb)
UTG+2: $9.78 (39.1 bb)
Hero (MP1): $25 (100 bb)
MP2: $9.90 (39.6 bb)
MP3: $42.48 (169.9 bb)
CO: $28.15 (112.6 bb)
BTN: $24.65 (98.6 bb) 18/13/35, 3bet 12% in 218 hands
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 9♥ 9♦
UTG+2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 3 folds, BTN raises to $3.25, 2 folds,
A check on the stats shows 3betting from the button 21%
so Hero calls $2.50
Flop: ($6.85) 2♠ Q♦ 3♦ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $3.75,
folds to a flop cbet raise 67%...not a big sample but good enough for me, tough to hit this flop.
Hero raises to $8.50, BTN folds
Results: $14.35 pot ($0.65 rake)
Hero mucked 9♥ 9♦ and won $13.70 ($6.70 net)
BTN mucked and lost (-$7 net)
Right villain?
poker stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
SB: $20.83 (83.3 bb)
BB: $11.86 (47.4 bb)
UTG+2: $9.78 (39.1 bb)
Hero (MP1): $25 (100 bb)
MP2: $9.90 (39.6 bb)
MP3: $42.48 (169.9 bb)
CO: $28.15 (112.6 bb)
BTN: $24.65 (98.6 bb) 18/13/35, 3bet 12% in 218 hands
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 9♥ 9♦
UTG+2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 3 folds, BTN raises to $3.25, 2 folds,
A check on the stats shows 3betting from the button 21%
so Hero calls $2.50
Flop: ($6.85) 2♠ Q♦ 3♦ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $3.75,
folds to a flop cbet raise 67%...not a big sample but good enough for me, tough to hit this flop.
Hero raises to $8.50, BTN folds
Results: $14.35 pot ($0.65 rake)
Hero mucked 9♥ 9♦ and won $13.70 ($6.70 net)
BTN mucked and lost (-$7 net)
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Sure... yeah, I'd prefer you post hands in here until after we go through the workbook material in the other thread.
So there is a workbook question that's very similar to this isn't there?
So calling or 4-betting kind of depends on your comfort level playing OOP in a spot like this. I'd prefer calling which is what you did.
On the flop, with that wide of a range, I'd c/c. Not much point in check min raising because he's probably still not folding TT/JJ. So you're just pushing out his air. How you play here should be planned from pre-flop on. How aggressive is he? Right... this is all out of Vol. I. If he's not super aggressive, and opponents tend to slow down after the flop in a 3-bet pot, then c/cing is best. If he's really aggressive post flop, then you need to consider 4-betting to solve your hand pre, or c/c lead. Most opponents will stay honest at that point. It all depends.
So there is a workbook question that's very similar to this isn't there?
So calling or 4-betting kind of depends on your comfort level playing OOP in a spot like this. I'd prefer calling which is what you did. On the flop, with that wide of a range, I'd c/c. Not much point in check min raising because he's probably still not folding TT/JJ. So you're just pushing out his air. How you play here should be planned from pre-flop on. How aggressive is he? Right... this is all out of Vol. I. If he's not super aggressive, and opponents tend to slow down after the flop in a 3-bet pot, then c/cing is best. If he's really aggressive post flop, then you need to consider 4-betting to solve your hand pre, or c/c lead. Most opponents will stay honest at that point. It all depends.
Figaroo2
Legend
Bronze Level
So there is a workbook question that's very similar to this isn't there?
On the flop, with that wide of a range, I'd c/c. Not much point in check min raising because he's probably still not folding TT/JJ. So you're just pushing out his air.
I understand this but what cards am I going to be happy seeing if just calling the flop in this spot, only really a paired board or 789. If an over card falls particularly an A or K i'm in trouble.
The min check raise looks best to me, it doesn't make it look like you want a fold and you aren't bloating it too much if he does call...
So if he calls here and say the board pairs or another low card comes, do we just try to check it down or fire again? TT JJ have to be brave to call another barrel.
Villain's postflop stats attached.
Attachments
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John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Yeah, I just don't want you to get into the habit of clicking buttons for info. What was your plan if he shoved? Fold? My main point here is that if you CR the flop you're just pushing out his air. But if you're not planning on putting anymore money in, that might be fine to do. But I find that c/cing, and then leading out on the turn you can get his better hands to fold out sometimes on that kind of texture (TT/JJ). Those same hands are most likely calling a small CR. Then you're just stuck on the turn with you ... in your hand. If an A or K comes on the turn, then you c/f.
If an A or K comes on the turn, then you c/f.
F
fishinthesea
Rock Star
Silver Level
Awkward spot, villain small river bet
***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 ***** (Poker Stars)
$25.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, January 22, 10:26:57 ET 2015
Table Los Angeles (real money)
Seat 5 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( $18.49 USD ) - VPIP: 36, PFR: 31, 3B: 18, AF: 3.5, Hands: 42
Seat 2: Player2 ( $35.63 USD ) - VPIP: 24, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 0.3, Hands: 21
Seat 3: Player3 ( $13.72 USD ) - VPIP: 42, PFR: 6, 3B: 0, AF: 3.0, Hands: 53
Seat 4: Hero ( $25.89 USD ) - VPIP: 21, PFR: 15, 3B: 7, AF: 2.0, Hands: 6470
Seat 5: Player5 ( $19.74 USD ) - VPIP: 63, PFR: 8, 3B: 0, AF: 1.6, Hands: 104
Seat 6: Player6 ( $15.33 USD ) - VPIP: 32, PFR: 9, 3B: 0, AF: 0.7, Hands: 44
Player6 posts small blind [$0.10 USD].
Player1 posts big blind [$0.25 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Jh Ah ]
Player2 folds
Player3 folds
Hero raises [$0.75 USD]
Player5 calls [$0.75 USD]
Player6 folds
Player1 calls [$0.50 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kc, 4s, 5c ]
Player1 checks
Hero bets [$1.25 USD]
Player5 folds
Player1 calls [$1.25 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qs ]
Player1 checks
Hero bets [$2.75 USD]
Player1 calls [$2.75 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ 3c ]
Player1 bets [$2.25 USD]
Hero??
***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 ***** (Poker Stars)
$25.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, January 22, 10:26:57 ET 2015
Table Los Angeles (real money)
Seat 5 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( $18.49 USD ) - VPIP: 36, PFR: 31, 3B: 18, AF: 3.5, Hands: 42
Seat 2: Player2 ( $35.63 USD ) - VPIP: 24, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 0.3, Hands: 21
Seat 3: Player3 ( $13.72 USD ) - VPIP: 42, PFR: 6, 3B: 0, AF: 3.0, Hands: 53
Seat 4: Hero ( $25.89 USD ) - VPIP: 21, PFR: 15, 3B: 7, AF: 2.0, Hands: 6470
Seat 5: Player5 ( $19.74 USD ) - VPIP: 63, PFR: 8, 3B: 0, AF: 1.6, Hands: 104
Seat 6: Player6 ( $15.33 USD ) - VPIP: 32, PFR: 9, 3B: 0, AF: 0.7, Hands: 44
Player6 posts small blind [$0.10 USD].
Player1 posts big blind [$0.25 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Jh Ah ]
Player2 folds
Player3 folds
Hero raises [$0.75 USD]
Player5 calls [$0.75 USD]
Player6 folds
Player1 calls [$0.50 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kc, 4s, 5c ]
Player1 checks
Hero bets [$1.25 USD]
Player5 folds
Player1 calls [$1.25 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qs ]
Player1 checks
Hero bets [$2.75 USD]
Player1 calls [$2.75 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ 3c ]
Player1 bets [$2.25 USD]
Hero??
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Well played, now fold the river. Your only other option really is to shove, and you could be repping the hand he has very easily here. You'd assume he'd bet bigger if that was the case, but I don't see any info or reads here. I wouldn't consider calling either.
Your only other option really is to shove, and you could be repping the hand he has very easily here. You'd assume he'd bet bigger if that was the case, but I don't see any info or reads here. I wouldn't consider calling either.
Figaroo2
Legend
Bronze Level
Well played, now fold the river.
Agreed I was going to say fold or shove also.
His bet sizing means he doesn't mind a call so we shouldn't. He has at worst a K all day every day.
S
Smpl
Rising Star
Bronze Level
My Poker Goals for 2015 (with some help from BlackRain79)
After doing some reading and putting in some thought to this topic, here's what I've come up with for 2015:
1. Play consistently. Play a minimum of 7 hours per week and hopefully stretch this out to 10 hours per week later on.
2. Study more regularly. Watch at least one video once a week. Do an hour ling review of my sessions once a week and post any interesting hands. Keep studying Polished Poker Vol I and II. Join in the study groups! Do an hour long Leak Buster review/opponent analysis once a week.
3. Play x hands per month. My target is 15,000 hands initially, I'll stretch this out to 25,000 when life permits.
4. Manage my bankroll properly and move up to $50nl (currently playing $25nl). I'm using 30 buy-ins for the level that I want to play at. Once I get to 40 buy-ins for $25nl, I'm going to take a 5 buy-in shot at $50nl, which will leave me with 30 buy-ins at $25nl if it fails. I'll rinse and repeat if necessary until it sticks. I'll do the same for $50nl/$100nl. If I ever drop below 20 buy-ins for any stake (including $25nl) I'll move down and try to build it back up again.
5. Write about it weekly to keep me honest and on track.
Smpl
After doing some reading and putting in some thought to this topic, here's what I've come up with for 2015:
1. Play consistently. Play a minimum of 7 hours per week and hopefully stretch this out to 10 hours per week later on.
2. Study more regularly. Watch at least one video once a week. Do an hour ling review of my sessions once a week and post any interesting hands. Keep studying Polished Poker Vol I and II. Join in the study groups! Do an hour long Leak Buster review/opponent analysis once a week.
3. Play x hands per month. My target is 15,000 hands initially, I'll stretch this out to 25,000 when life permits.
4. Manage my bankroll properly and move up to $50nl (currently playing $25nl). I'm using 30 buy-ins for the level that I want to play at. Once I get to 40 buy-ins for $25nl, I'm going to take a 5 buy-in shot at $50nl, which will leave me with 30 buy-ins at $25nl if it fails. I'll rinse and repeat if necessary until it sticks. I'll do the same for $50nl/$100nl. If I ever drop below 20 buy-ins for any stake (including $25nl) I'll move down and try to build it back up again.
5. Write about it weekly to keep me honest and on track.
Smpl
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Thanks John for inviting me here. I guess the bunch is very advanced or can I also get along being a very beginner
Yeah, of course. Well, it's free material and advice, and the group that participates regularly are great and very helpful. Just follow along and ask questions as they come up. You can post some hands here also, but make your way through the book as you can as well.
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Very good goals... I'd put this in the Vol II thread because we're going to start doing some work about goals and blocks. I think it will be quite useful.
F
fishinthesea
Rock Star
Silver Level
Here's the rest of the hand.
***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 ***** (Poker Stars)
$25.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, January 22, 10:26:57 ET 2015
Table Los Angeles (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( $18.49 USD ) - VPIP: 36, PFR: 31, 3B: 18, AF: 3.5, Hands: 42
Seat 2: Player2 ( $35.63 USD ) - VPIP: 24, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 0.3, Hands: 21
Seat 3: Player3 ( $13.72 USD ) - VPIP: 42, PFR: 6, 3B: 0, AF: 3.0, Hands: 53
Seat 4: Hero ( $25.89 USD ) - VPIP: 21, PFR: 15, 3B: 7, AF: 2.0, Hands: 6470
Seat 5: Player5 ( $19.74 USD ) - VPIP: 63, PFR: 8, 3B: 0, AF: 1.6, Hands: 104
Seat 6: Player6 ( $15.33 USD ) - VPIP: 32, PFR: 9, 3B: 0, AF: 0.7, Hands: 44
Player6 posts small blind [$0.10 USD].
Player1 posts big blind [$0.25 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Jh Ah ]
Player2 folds
Player3 folds
Hero raises [$0.75 USD]
Player5 calls [$0.75 USD]
Player6 folds
Player1 calls [$0.50 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kc, 4s, 5c ]
Player1 checks
Hero bets [$1.25 USD]
Player5 folds
Player1 calls [$1.25 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qs ]
Player1 checks
Hero bets [$2.75 USD]
Player1 calls [$2.75 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ 3c ]
Player1 bets [$2.25 USD]
Hero raises [$21.14 USD]
Player1 folds
Hero shows [Jh, Ah ]
Hero wins $14.11 USD from main pot
Hero wins $18.89 USD
***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 ***** (Poker Stars)
$25.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, January 22, 10:26:57 ET 2015
Table Los Angeles (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( $18.49 USD ) - VPIP: 36, PFR: 31, 3B: 18, AF: 3.5, Hands: 42
Seat 2: Player2 ( $35.63 USD ) - VPIP: 24, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 0.3, Hands: 21
Seat 3: Player3 ( $13.72 USD ) - VPIP: 42, PFR: 6, 3B: 0, AF: 3.0, Hands: 53
Seat 4: Hero ( $25.89 USD ) - VPIP: 21, PFR: 15, 3B: 7, AF: 2.0, Hands: 6470
Seat 5: Player5 ( $19.74 USD ) - VPIP: 63, PFR: 8, 3B: 0, AF: 1.6, Hands: 104
Seat 6: Player6 ( $15.33 USD ) - VPIP: 32, PFR: 9, 3B: 0, AF: 0.7, Hands: 44
Player6 posts small blind [$0.10 USD].
Player1 posts big blind [$0.25 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Jh Ah ]
Player2 folds
Player3 folds
Hero raises [$0.75 USD]
Player5 calls [$0.75 USD]
Player6 folds
Player1 calls [$0.50 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kc, 4s, 5c ]
Player1 checks
Hero bets [$1.25 USD]
Player5 folds
Player1 calls [$1.25 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qs ]
Player1 checks
Hero bets [$2.75 USD]
Player1 calls [$2.75 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ 3c ]
Player1 bets [$2.25 USD]
Hero raises [$21.14 USD]
Player1 folds
Hero shows [Jh, Ah ]
Hero wins $14.11 USD from main pot
Hero wins $18.89 USD
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Good... yes, you must have picked up on something else about him that you didn't put in the hand. But typically if he made a flush on a K high board he'd be betting bigger. You just also have to be concerned it doesn't have 67 also. Your options were shove or fold. I'd probably have folded personally at these stakes, but it's good it worked out.
Figaroo2
Legend
Bronze Level
Tough spot (for me)
Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
SB: $25 (100 bb)
BB: $25.92 (103.7 bb)
UTG+2: $8.15 (32.6 bb)
MP1: $10 (40 bb)
MP2: $49.27 (197.1 bb)
MP3: $42.38 (169.5 bb) 20/17/44 in 172 12% from MP decent stats
CO: $25.95 (103.8 bb) 26/3/47 in 32 hands semi-lag
Hero (BTN): $36.32 (145.3 bb)
Preflop: Hero is BTN with A:spade: A:heart:
3 folds, MP3 raises to $0.75, CO calls $0.75, Hero raises to $2.75, 2 folds, MP3 calls $2, CO calls $2
Flop: ($8.60) 8:diamond: 4:diamond: 7:spade: (3 players)
MP3 checks, CO checks, Hero bets $6.15, MP3 folds, CO calls $6.15
Turn: ($20.90) 2:club: (2 players)
CO bets $17.05,
Hero??
How do we range this fishy player, he called a very big cbet and shoves a blank
I'm thinking sets & monster draws definitely possible. Calling a 3 bet oop with 88 or 77 probably in his range, we don't have the ace diamonds so he could have big diamonds looking at overs plus the flush draw. 56 looks too loose pre even for this guy.
tank calls $17.05
two many draws out there swayed me to call although I expect to lose to a set fairly often as well
Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
SB: $25 (100 bb)
BB: $25.92 (103.7 bb)
UTG+2: $8.15 (32.6 bb)
MP1: $10 (40 bb)
MP2: $49.27 (197.1 bb)
MP3: $42.38 (169.5 bb) 20/17/44 in 172 12% from MP decent stats
CO: $25.95 (103.8 bb) 26/3/47 in 32 hands semi-lag
Hero (BTN): $36.32 (145.3 bb)
Preflop: Hero is BTN with A:spade: A:heart:
3 folds, MP3 raises to $0.75, CO calls $0.75, Hero raises to $2.75, 2 folds, MP3 calls $2, CO calls $2
Flop: ($8.60) 8:diamond: 4:diamond: 7:spade: (3 players)
MP3 checks, CO checks, Hero bets $6.15, MP3 folds, CO calls $6.15
Turn: ($20.90) 2:club: (2 players)
CO bets $17.05,
Hero??
How do we range this fishy player, he called a very big cbet and shoves a blank
I'm thinking sets & monster draws definitely possible. Calling a 3 bet oop with 88 or 77 probably in his range, we don't have the ace diamonds so he could have big diamonds looking at overs plus the flush draw. 56 looks too loose pre even for this guy.
tank calls $17.05
two many draws out there swayed me to call although I expect to lose to a set fairly often as well
Last edited:
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Yeah, that's what I'd expect a lot at these stakes, that's why I'd recommend folding before shoving.
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Yeah this is a pretty easy call. Why are you 3-bet squeezing so small?
F
fishinthesea
Rock Star
Silver Level
Ok i'll keep that in mind. My thought process was that he seemed pretty aggressive to me but was check calling all my bets. Then when he bet weak on the river, none of it made sense. I tanked like 15 seconds before I shoved.
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Yeah, I think that's good reasoning overall. Generally if he had a draw as an aggressive player, then he'd be betting it and not c/cing. So some kind of weak King or high mid pair would make sense. You didn't have many hands on him though, so I'd just be careful trying to get people to fold at these stakes. There are spots to do it, but just don't push too hard.
Figaroo2
Legend
Bronze Level
I had aces, why would I want to go big and fold them out? If they have something they can still reraise.
How would you play this hand preflop please?
fold call or raise
pokerstars Hand #129507898754: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25 USD) - 2015/01/28 17:19:18 ET
Table 'Safara II' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: ($26.42 in chips)
Seat 2: figaroo2 ($47.67 in chips)
Seat 3: ($38.39 in chips)
Seat 4: ($10 in chips)
Seat 5: ($25 in chips)
Seat 6: ($25 in chips)
Seat 7: ($24.46 in chips) 18/10/agg% 53. 56 hands,,, fold to 3 bet= 0,,,, flop/turn/river cbet all 100%,,, 19% from EP
I did notice raiser was a barreller and was a massive 38% went to show down
Seat 8: ($25.35 in chips)
Seat 9: ($25 in chips)
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to figaroo2 in the SB [Kd Qd]
Seat 7 raises $0.50 to $0.75
Hero?
I have posted the whole hand in my own thread if anyone wants to see the result.
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
A couple of reasons, but 1 is you don't necessarily want the hand MW. With position, it's ok, but not ideal. 2, if you're every 3-bet squeeze bluffing you want a size that can actually get some folds. 3, you're missing value. 4, you may give away the strength of your hand.
Your WTSD stat with only 50 hands isn't helpful, but it looks like all his stats to lead to him LIKELY being an aggressive posflop player. So in this case you'll want to take initiative and 3-bet, even though he doesn't fold to 3-bets. He'll likely play more straight forward in a re-raised pot.