Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

[Sneaky Feet]

I'd say no. Not if your opponent is playing tight and really has no reason the be playing back at you. If someone like this is 4x opening, then I'd just flat since you have positions. There's really not any value in 3-betting versus their range in this spot unless you're planning on outplaying them and trying to turn your hand into a bluff.

Thanks John. Just to clarify because of players stats I would have been better to call his initial bet vs. 3betting him and giving a chance to 4bet (which he did) and push me off the hand. By calling I have the opportunity to play the flop accordingly, possibly bluffing by c/calling the flop and raising the turn?

 

[Figaroo2]

Benji
With the kings its initially a very dry board, if he calls the flop i'd be putting him on at least a pair. Drawing hands like suited connectors 56, 98 or 9T are possible as he is loose, maybe JT and JQ suited as well. flop and turn bets look fine but once he's called the turn i'd check the river.
9T gets there as does 56 and 66 and slow played sets are entirely possible.
Its a close value spot but id check here.
Others might disagree but I just prefer the check here as if he has a straight you will get raised off the hand. We are only beating Jx and other small pairs which might call a small bet.

 

[Figaroo2]

happily crushing 10nl on ipoker

I've actually scaled back my three betting and squeezing on the ipoker site (bet365) there are so many fish and nutballs just betting value hands and calling in late position and floating the one and done merchants is all that is required.

 

[John A]

Thanks John. Just to clarify because of players stats I would have been better to call his initial bet vs. 3betting him and giving a chance to 4bet (which he did) and push me off the hand. By calling I have the opportunity to play the flop accordingly, possibly bluffing by c/calling the flop and raising the turn?

Correct, you have position and you don't want to get blown off your hand. I wouldn't try and turn these kinds of hands into bluffs against these kinds of opponents just yet. Generally if you call a flop bet, they will slow down on the turn unless they have you beat. They won't tend to be your better regular who's double barreling much wider.

 

[fishinthesea]

Wow, congrats Figaroo, looks like you've figured it out.. Nicely done.

 

[Figaroo2]

Wow, congrats Figaroo, looks like you've figured it out.. Nicely done.[/QUOTE
Thanks but im not deluding myself. One of the problems is playing with these sort of stats only works with poorer players. On pokerstars I feel like im just about holding my own with 25nl regs.

 

[John A]

Any thoughts on this one?

No, not really. What do you think you might want to do differently?

 

[John A]

[
Thanks but im not deluding myself. One of the problems is playing with these sort of stats only works with poorer players. On pokerstars I feel like im just about holding my own with 25nl regs.

Congrats on your results. That's good that you're thinking about your game and making the adjustments that you think are necessary. Those kinds of stats won't work well on most sites.

 

[Sneaky Feet]

Correct, you have position and you don't want to get blown off your hand. I wouldn't try and turn these kinds of hands into bluffs against these kinds of opponents just yet. Generally if you call a flop bet, they will slow down on the turn unless they have you beat. They won't tend to be your better regular who's double barreling much wider.

Hey hey! He can be taught! Awesome thanks John. That's all you

 

[Sneaky Feet]

Here's one from today. Was this really ugly? I thought I had enough outs and felt I was against an over pair. Is this just an example of a fish not able to get away from a pot?

***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 ***** (poker stars)
$5.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, June 08, 12:24:00 ET 2014
Table Whipple III (real money)
Seat 2 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( $12.72 USD ) - VPIP: 18, PFR: 16, 3B: 0, AF: 0.7, Hands: 50
Seat 2: Player2 ( $5.00 USD ) - VPIP: 18, PFR: 8, 3B: 0, AF: 4.0, Hands: 49
Seat 3: Player3 ( $10.46 USD ) - VPIP: 19, PFR: 9, 3B: 4, AF: 1.9, Hands: 149
Seat 4: Hero ( $6.00 USD ) - VPIP: 21, PFR: 17, 3B: 9, AF: 4.2, Hands: 4149
Seat 6: Player6 ( $6.36 USD ) - VPIP: 11, PFR: 5, 3B: 0, AF: 2.0, Hands: 110
Seat 7: Player7 ( $5.40 USD ) - VPIP: 10, PFR: 9, 3B: 7, AF: 2.0, Hands: 58
Seat 8: Player8 ( $4.96 USD ) - VPIP: 17, PFR: 14, 3B: 5, AF: 2.0, Hands: 133
Seat 9: Player9 ( $1.80 USD ) - VPIP: 50, PFR: 14, 3B: 0, AF: 10.0, Hands: 56
Player3 posts small blind [$0.02 USD].
Hero posts big blind [$0.05 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ 9h 8h ]
Player6 folds
Player7 folds
Player8 folds
Player9 calls [$0.05 USD]
Player1 raises [$0.30 USD]
Player2 folds
Player3 folds
Hero calls [$0.25 USD]
Player9 folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8d, 7h, 7d ]
Hero bets [$0.40 USD]
Player1 raises [$0.95 USD]
Hero calls [$0.55 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6h ]
Hero bets [$1.30 USD]
Player1 raises [$6.35 USD]
Hero calls [$3.45 USD]
Player1 wins $1.60 USD
** Dealing River ** [ Qs ]
Hero shows [9h, 8h ]
Player1 shows [Th, Td ]
Player1 wins $11.57 USD from main pot

 

[John A]

Hey hey! He can be taught! Awesome thanks John. That's all you

Thanks, but that's 100% all you. You're putting good work in and focusing on your game. I've seen a ton of growth in your game, and it's starting to pay off.

I won't rest until everyone that follows this thread is crushing their stakes!!! I don't care if it's 2nl or 600nl. Everyone in here is going to end up crushing by the time we're done.

Small side note, I'm trying to finish the workbook for Polished Poker by the end of this week. I'm getting close. I still need someone to edit it though, but I'm pretty sure you guys are going to get a lot out of it. If not, 10000% refund! :handkiss:

 

[John A]

Here's one from today. Was this really ugly? I thought I had enough outs and felt I was against an over pair. Is this just an example of a fish not able to get away from a pot?

Someone that tight, on that kind of board and being OOP, I'd just fold to the flop raise.

 

[BenjiHustle]

Is "winner's tilt" something that can be prolonged? For example: if a player is on a heater for a couple of weeks, they may get apathetic and run bad for the next week. Could this be an affect of prolonged winner's tilt?

 

[Sneaky Feet]

Someone that tight, on that kind of board and being OOP, I'd just fold to the flop raise.

Awesome thanks. So in this case it would have been a good opportunity to view his aggression as a made hand. Considering the stats I had on him, his post flop aggression was quite low and they were betting very aggressively. Next time I see a situation where villain is playing that tight and raising me, I'll stop chasing earlier. Thanks sir!

Also just curious but after 4g hand how do my stats look?

 

[John A]

Is "winner's tilt" something that can be prolonged? For example: if a player is on a heater for a couple of weeks, they may get apathetic and run bad for the next week. Could this be an affect of prolonged winner's tilt?

I'm not an expert on tilt, but I would say this could be a reasonable side effect. How everyone handles tilt and the effects is very personal and can vary pretty widely.

 

[John A]

Awesome thanks. So in this case it would have been a good opportunity to view his aggression as a made hand. Considering the stats I had on him, his post flop aggression was quite low and they were betting very aggressively. Next time I see a situation where villain is playing that tight and raising me, I'll stop chasing earlier. Thanks sir!

Also just curious but after 4g hand how do my stats look?

Yes, that AND the fact that there were a lot of bad turn and river cards for you as well. This also holds true for your opponent, but I wouldn't try and push many people off big hands at these stakes. You were also OOP, so all of those things combined = fold.

Did you post your stats somewhere? I didn't see them if you did.

 

[Sneaky Feet]

Yes, that AND the fact that there were a lot of bad turn and river cards for you as well. This also holds true for your opponent, but I wouldn't try and push many people off big hands at these stakes. You were also OOP, so all of those things combined = fold.

Did you post your stats somewhere? I didn't see them if you did.

Gotcha. As for stats I didn't post them specifically they had just come up in the hand I posted. I'm not ready to post a graph yet, I've still got some work to do

Here's the stats that came up for me from the hand:

VPIP: 21 PFR: 17 3B: 9 AF: 4.2 4149 hands

 

[rhombus]

I've actually scaled back my three betting and squeezing on the ipoker site (bet365) there are so many fish and nutballs just betting value hands and calling in late position and floating the one and done merchants is all that is required.

great stats especially from the blinds

 

[John A]

Gotcha. As for stats I didn't post them specifically they had just come up in the hand I posted. I'm not ready to post a graph yet, I've still got some work to do

Here's the stats that came up for me from the hand:

VPIP: 21 PFR: 17 3B: 9 AF: 4.2 4149 hands

Those are near perfect for what you're doing right now. You might be able to bring the AF down a little, but could be sample size.

 

[Sneaky Feet]

Those are near perfect for what you're doing right now. You might be able to bring the AF down a little, but could be sample size.

Excellent! Now if I can only will myself to get away from some of my bigger losses I'll be golden like pony boy.

At the moment I'm finding that my wins are fairly often but small and my losses are few but BIG and I'm just now breaking even to still slightly negative. I still have some tweaking to do.

 

[John A]

Excellent! Now if I can only will myself to get away from some of my bigger losses I'll be golden like pony boy.

At the moment I'm finding that my wins are fairly often but small and my losses are few but BIG and I'm just now breaking even to still slightly negative. I still have some tweaking to do.

Hehe... go pony boy.

If that's what you're struggling with most, then my best suggestion would be to fold to any raises in spots where you're at all unsure about where you stand. At the stakes you're playing, you'll make less mistakes in the long run if you fold to raises against mostly passive opponents. This is of course if your opponent isn't a maniac or something, but your typical opponent.

Write down on a sticky note and put it on your monitor: Folding is also winning money.

You'll never win the pot, but you'll save yourself a lot of big pot losses when you can get out of the hand early enough.

I have a sticky on my monitor that says: Play your A game, and if you're not quit!

 

[magicius]

Hehe... go pony boy.

If that's what you're struggling with most, then my best suggestion would be to fold to any raises in spots where you're at all unsure about where you stand. At the stakes you're playing, you'll make less mistakes in the long run if you fold to raises against mostly passive opponents. This is of course if your opponent isn't a maniac or something, but your typical opponent.

Write down on a sticky note and put it on your monitor: Folding is also winning money.

You'll never win the pot, but you'll save yourself a lot of big pot losses when you can get out of the hand early enough.

I have a sticky on my monitor that says: Play your A game, and if you're not quit!

Precious.. I always say thay but still didnt stick it
Folding seems hard sometime... U have str8,and you see flushdraw on river,vilain shoves and i.... Call... Less you lose,more you win

Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk

 

[Sneaky Feet]

Hehe... go pony boy.

If that's what you're struggling with most, then my best suggestion would be to fold to any raises in spots where you're at all unsure about where you stand. At the stakes you're playing, you'll make less mistakes in the long run if you fold to raises against mostly passive opponents. This is of course if your opponent isn't a maniac or something, but your typical opponent.

Write down on a sticky note and put it on your monitor: Folding is also winning money.

You'll never win the pot, but you'll save yourself a lot of big pot losses when you can get out of the hand early enough.

I have a sticky on my monitor that says: Play your A game, and if you're not quit!

Written and posted. Thanks for the advice! I also did a little drawing of the hand I lost my stack with although I had top pair, drawing to a full house, then a flush and a straight. Hopefully that should remind me

 

[John A]

Precious.. I always say thay but still didnt stick it
Folding seems hard sometime... U have str8,and you see flushdraw on river,vilain shoves and i.... Call... Less you lose,more you win

Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk

Sticking it makes all the difference!

 

[John A]

Polished Poker Vol. II Preview

A quick question from the Vol. II workbook to get your poker juices going.

Question 2, pg 46. You open in the Co with 9s9d. A loose aggressive regular (VPIP 30 / PFR 25 / 3-bet 10%) in your game 3-bets you to 10 BBs from the button. The action folds back to you. What's your best course of action?

[ ] Call [ ] Fold [ ] 4-bet to 23 BBs [ ] 4-bet to 28 BBs
​

Spoiler

Answer: 4-bet to 28 BBs. You want to increase your fold equity in this spot against a loose and aggressive opponent. If you can do this properly, then 4-bet and calling off your stack is the highest EV play long term. It all comes down to fold frequency, because you want to reduce the possibility of 4-bet calling to make the play as high of an EV play as possible. So the slightly larger 4-bet sizing will increase the likelihood of your opponent calling with some of their marginal hands that still have decent equity against you.


If you decrease your 4-bet sizing to 23, you will most likely increase your opponents calling range, so the EV of the play becomes slightly more unclear because there are too many variables to calculate properly.


However, if your opponent folds at least 70% of the time to your 4-bet, which is reasonable if you assume at least a 16% 3-bet frequency in this spot, then your 4-bet is profitable no matter what play your opponent makes. If they jam to your 4-bet, then you have at least 38% equity still against their range for an EV of just over +3. Your total EV for the play, assuming that your opponent either 5-bets or folds, and his calling range is generally strong if he does call is +7.08. You will win the 14.5 that it's the pot 70% of the time when you 4-bet and your opponent folds. 30% of the time they will jam, and you'll call the remaining 69 to win 104.5 and you'll have 38% equity versus their range.


14.5 (.7) + (104.5 (.38) - 69 (.62)) = +7.08


As opposed to saying that your opponent will only fold 50% of the time to the smaller 4-bet, call at least 10% and jam the rest of the time. In that case we end up with a negative EV solution over the long run.


14.5 (.4) + (104.5 (.38) - (74 (.62)) = -.37

Calling is not a good option against a good loose and aggressive opponent who can push you off a lot of hands. Against a weaker regular, or against any fish or more passive opponent, calling would become the higher EV play. There's an argument to be made about calling against an opponent's wide range in this spot. However in reality, most players struggle with navigating this spot OOP against a good and aggressive opponent.