Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

[Figaroo2]

Infuriating evening played really well for 1000 hands or so, red line up about $10 but I can't get anyone to show down apart from these two hands and I end up with a losing session.

poker stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
SB: $6.50 (65 bb)
Hero (BB): $12.21 (122.1 bb)
UTG+2: $12.51 (125.1 bb) serious nutball fish vpip 79, pfr 42, ag% 78 in 50 hands
MP1: $10.87 (108.7 bb)
MP2: $10.73 (107.3 bb)
MP3: $12.76 (127.6 bb)
CO: $10.76 (107.6 bb)
BTN: $12.33 (123.3 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Kc Kh
UTG+2 raises to $0.35, 3 folds, CO calls $0.35, BTN folds, SB calls $0.30, Hero raises to $2, UTG+2 calls $1.65, 2 folds

Flop: ($4.70) 9h 7d 9d (2 players)
Hero bets $3.36, UTG+2 raises to $10.51 and is all-in, Hero calls $6.85

Turn: ($25.12) 4h (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($25.12) 3c (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results: $25.12 pot ($1.13 rake)
Final Board: 9h 7d 9d 4h 3c
Hero showed Kc Kh and lost (-$12.21 net)
UTG+2 showed Ts 9c and won $23.99 ($11.78 net)

I was expecting to see aces once he shoved but thought there was a good chance of QQ JJ 10s not 10-9 ffsake.



Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players
SB: $3.43 (34.3 bb)
Hero (BB): $10 (100 bb)
UTG+1: $10.50 (105 bb)
UTG+2: $11.99 (119.9 bb)
MP1: $10 (100 bb)
MP2: $4.16 (41.6 bb) Fish
MP3: $9.70 (97 bb) decent reg 13/9/27 over 500 hands
CO: $10.33 (103.3 bb)
BTN: $13.61 (136.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Qs Qc
3 folds, MP2 raises to $0.20, MP3 calls $0.20, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.85, MP2 calls $0.65, MP3 calls $0.65

Flop: ($2.60) 5h 5s 4d (3 players)
Hero bets $1.86, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $1.86

with him having just called the fish im expecting him to be calling here with some sort of overpair.

Turn: ($6.32) 7c (2 players)
Hero bets $6.04, MP3 raises to $6.99 and is all-in, Hero calls $0.95 wasnt expecting that probably run into a set...

River: ($20.30) Td (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results: $20.30 pot ($0.91 rake)
Final Board: 5h 5s 4d 7c Td
Hero showed Qs Qc and lost (-$9.70 net)
MP3 showed Ac Ad and won $19.39 ($9.69 net) sneaky beaky AA in the hole.

 

[IPlay]

Paired flops are a lot of the times, a way ahead or way behind situation. If you have QQ+ on a paired flop, I almost always check since you are either, way ahead or way behind and there is little value in betting. The first flop I do not mind the bet since it is a crazy aggro fish that can have flush or straight draws but on the 2nd rainbow board I would almost always check that flop.

 

[Fisi]

Infuriating evening played really well for 1000 hands or so, red line up about $10 but I can't get anyone to show down apart from these two hands and I end up with a losing session.

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
SB: $6.50 (65 bb)
Hero (BB): $12.21 (122.1 bb)
UTG+2: $12.51 (125.1 bb) serious nutball fish vpip 79, pfr 42, ag% 78 in 50 hands
MP1: $10.87 (108.7 bb)
MP2: $10.73 (107.3 bb)
MP3: $12.76 (127.6 bb)
CO: $10.76 (107.6 bb)
BTN: $12.33 (123.3 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Kc Kh
UTG+2 raises to $0.35, 3 folds, CO calls $0.35, BTN folds, SB calls $0.30, Hero raises to $2, UTG+2 calls $1.65, 2 folds

Flop: ($4.70) 9h 7d 9d (2 players)
Hero bets $3.36, UTG+2 raises to $10.51 and is all-in, Hero calls $6.85

Turn: ($25.12) 4h (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($25.12) 3c (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results: $25.12 pot ($1.13 rake)
Final Board: 9h 7d 9d 4h 3c
Hero showed Kc Kh and lost (-$12.21 net)
UTG+2 showed Ts 9c and won $23.99 ($11.78 net)

I was expecting to see aces once he shoved but thought there was a good chance of QQ JJ 10s not 10-9 ffsake.



Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players
SB: $3.43 (34.3 bb)
Hero (BB): $10 (100 bb)
UTG+1: $10.50 (105 bb)
UTG+2: $11.99 (119.9 bb)
MP1: $10 (100 bb)
MP2: $4.16 (41.6 bb) Fish
MP3: $9.70 (97 bb) decent reg 13/9/27 over 500 hands
CO: $10.33 (103.3 bb)
BTN: $13.61 (136.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Qs Qc
3 folds, MP2 raises to $0.20, MP3 calls $0.20, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.85, MP2 calls $0.65, MP3 calls $0.65

Flop: ($2.60) 5h 5s 4d (3 players)
Hero bets $1.86, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $1.86

with him having just called the fish im expecting him to be calling here with some sort of overpair.

Turn: ($6.32) 7c (2 players)
Hero bets $6.04, MP3 raises to $6.99 and is all-in, Hero calls $0.95 wasnt expecting that probably run into a set...

River: ($20.30) Td (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results: $20.30 pot ($0.91 rake)
Final Board: 5h 5s 4d 7c Td
Hero showed Qs Qc and lost (-$9.70 net)
MP3 showed Ac Ad and won $19.39 ($9.69 net) sneaky beaky AA in the hole.

First hand, wp, unlucky to run into trips. He could have all kinds of stuff here.

Second hand I would bet less on turn (around half pot), and call it off if he ships. I would hate it, but I think we are comitted. I think checking flop is bad, since we are getting value from 66-JJ if we bet, and that is his most likely range, given that he just called PF. Another thing you could do is check turn and bet river, which might be a better idea, given that he is so tight and might fold his medium pairs to a second barrel.

 

[Sneaky Feet]

It depends on the river. If the draws missed and the river comes an overcard I would fire the 3rd barrel if I am not against a bad fish. If the board is low and the river is a low to medium card also (doesn't complete draws), then I would fire around a third to half pot if I thought our opponent has a lot of draws in his range. If the board was high and the river card was low, I am check-folding.

Awesome thanks for the ideas I get stuck in this position a lot so this really helps.

 

[Fisi]

Awesome thanks for the ideas I get stuck in this position a lot so this really helps.

I am glad I could help, but don't take this 100% as the right play as I am, like you, still learning the basics of this game, so threre's quite a chance I might be wrong

 

[rhombus]

I am glad I could help, but don't take this 100% as the right play as I am, like you, still learning the basics of this game, so threre's quite a chance I might be wrong

theres no wrong answers in this thread as we are all learning its just our own personal opinions/thoughts

PS the advice looked good and logical to me!!

 

[fishinthesea]

Wow.. 1 week and 808 posts later... I've finally caught up with this thread. I've finished the book and I'm ready to apply a lot of the strategies suggested. Will definitely continue following this thread and am very grateful for this opportunity.

 

[John A]

Thanks for the comments John I appreciate that and I will start thinking about what second best hands I'm playing against and looking to get calls from.

As a secondary I'm having issues on the river with a missed straight or flush draw. I'll bet for value on the flop and turn, flop 1/2 to 2/3, turn the same depending on villian, then miss. Checking seems like a pretty clear sign that I was chasing and missed. Of course this is villain dependent but do you have any suggestions when this happens? Anyone?

Thanks.

I think you mean you bluff the flop and turn or semi-bluff, but yeah, it's way too villain and board dependent to say anything definitively. How the board runs out plays a huge key on if a bluff will be profitable.

As a general rule, the lower the board is on the flop, if it becomes much higher by the time you hit the river, your bluffing chances increases a lot. IE, flop is 2 4 7, and turn and river are J and K. If I had a flush draw, I'm bluffing that river near 100% of the time.

 

[John A]

Wow.. 1 week and 808 posts later... I've finally caught up with this thread. I've finished the book and I'm ready to apply a lot of the strategies suggested. Will definitely continue following this thread and am very grateful for this opportunity.

Cool... welcome. Just jump in.

 

[magicius]

Ill join u guys in few weeks than

Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk

 

[Figaroo2]

Nutballs you gota love them...

IPoker, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

Hero (SB): $10.51 (105.1 bb)
BB: $0.74 (7.4 bb)
UTG: $14.34 (143.4 bb)
MP: $2.26 (22.6 bb)
CO: $10 (100 bb) Nutball vpip78/pfr45/ pf agg 48%, 33% 3 bet in 78 hands
BTN: $13.09 (130.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with As Js
CO posts BB OOP, UTG calls $0.10, MP folds, CO raises to $0.60, BTN folds, Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, CO calls $1.40
I had been waiting patiently for a hand to tackle the nutball who was opening x 6 and then full pot c bet every time.

Flop: ($4.25) 7s Qh Jc (2 players) 2nd pair is probably enough against his range,,,,
Hero bets $2.97, CO calls $2.97

Turn: ($10.19) 4c (2 players)
Hero bets $5, CO calls $4.98 and is all-in

River: ($20.15) 3s (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results: $20.15 pot ($1.34 rake)
Final Board: 7s Qh Jc 4c 3s
Hero mucked As Js and won $18.81 ($8.86 net)
CO showed 8h 9d and lost (-$10 net) chasing a gutshot lovely

 

[rhombus]

IPoker, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

Hero (SB): $10.51 (105.1 bb)
BB: $0.74 (7.4 bb)
UTG: $14.34 (143.4 bb)
MP: $2.26 (22.6 bb)
CO: $10 (100 bb) Nutball vpip78/pfr45/ pf agg 48%, 33% 3 bet in 78 hands
BTN: $13.09 (130.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with As Js
CO posts BB OOP, UTG calls $0.10, MP folds, CO raises to $0.60, BTN folds, Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, CO calls $1.40
I had been waiting patiently for a hand to tackle the nutball who was opening x 6 and then full pot c bet every time.

Flop: ($4.25) 7s Qh Jc (2 players) 2nd pair is probably enough against his range,,,,
Hero bets $2.97, CO calls $2.97

Turn: ($10.19) 4c (2 players)
Hero bets $5, CO calls $4.98 and is all-in

River: ($20.15) 3s (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results: $20.15 pot ($1.34 rake)
Final Board: 7s Qh Jc 4c 3s
Hero mucked As Js and won $18.81 ($8.86 net)
CO showed 8h 9d and lost (-$10 net) chasing a gutshot lovely

Geez would have been so sick if they had hit

 

[rhombus]

Wow.. 1 week and 808 posts later... I've finally caught up with this thread. I've finished the book and I'm ready to apply a lot of the strategies suggested. Will definitely continue following this thread and am very grateful for this opportunity.

Im currently doing the same as I missed alot, only up to page 8 of the thread after rereading chapter 9 and 6

 

[John A]

IPoker, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

Hero (SB): $10.51 (105.1 bb)
BB: $0.74 (7.4 bb)
UTG: $14.34 (143.4 bb)
MP: $2.26 (22.6 bb)
CO: $10 (100 bb) Nutball vpip78/pfr45/ pf agg 48%, 33% 3 bet in 78 hands
BTN: $13.09 (130.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with As Js
CO posts BB OOP, UTG calls $0.10, MP folds, CO raises to $0.60, BTN folds, Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, CO calls $1.40
I had been waiting patiently for a hand to tackle the nutball who was opening x 6 and then full pot c bet every time.

Flop: ($4.25) 7s Qh Jc (2 players) 2nd pair is probably enough against his range,,,,
Hero bets $2.97, CO calls $2.97

You betcha.. you have the nuts. Nh.

I just had a hand last night where I opened UTG w/ AA, got 3-bet by a lagtard on the button, I 4-bet about 27% effective, they call. I c-bet half pot on flop (2 4 8) so I can easily shove turn. They call. I shove the turn (a 5), my opponent calls, they flip over 67o. It happens at all levels (this was 100nl and ~110 effective).

 

[Figaroo2]

yes sometimes they get you

IPoker, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

SB: $14.25 (142.5 bb)
BB: $3 (30 bb)
UTG: $4.52 (45.2 bb)
Hero (MP): $9.50 (95 bb)
CO: $3.57 (35.7 bb)
BTN: $12.23 (122.3 bb) vpip 53/ pfr 7 ag 27% 40 hands

Preflop: Hero is MP with As 7s
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.30, CO calls $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, 2 folds

Flop: ($1.05) 3c 4s 2s (3 players)
Don't see much point in betting too big here

Hero bets $0.42, CO folds, BTN calls $0.42

Turn: ($1.89) 2c (2 players)
Hero bets $0.75, BTN raises to $1.50, Hero calls $0.75,
still plenty of outs here

River: ($4.89) 5c (2 players) gives me a straight
Hero checks, BTN bets $2.30, Hero calls $2.30 not sure here probably beaten by a 6 but now beat two pair
combos.
Results: $9.49 pot ($0.63 rake)
Final Board: 3c 4s 2s 2c 5c
Hero mucked As 7s and lost (-$4.52 net)
BTN showed 2h 3h and won $8.86 ($4.34 net)

 

[Sneaky Feet]

That sucks Figaroo. I've never played 6 handed so is it common to open that wide from mid position? Or from the button for that matter.

 

[Sneaky Feet]

Here's an interesting situation that came up last night. I had only been at the table for 20 hands or so and had really been getting some good cards. Villain started playing back at me because I had beat him a few time and I felt he was a little pissed. Everytime I entered a pot he'd call so IMO was trying to isolate me. Typically when hands like this come up I end up continuation betting anyway so that's not a big change but I feel like I may be shorting myself some value by doing so. Is it better to continue in a situation like this or check the flop in hopes that villain hits on the turn? I did only have 1 pair so that's why I bet the flop.

Villain was really not happy with me so had been calling everytime I entered.

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com/

MP1 ($1.47)
MP2 ($2.07)
MP3 ($5.53)
CO ($2.30)
Button ($4.05)
SB ($5.81)
BB ($2.63)
Hero (UTG) ($7.06)
UTG+1 ($8.06)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K

, Q

Hero raises to $0.15, UTG+1 calls $0.15, 4 folds, Button calls $0.15, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.52) K

, 9

, 4

(3 players)
Hero bets $0.30, 2 folds

Total pot: $0.52 | Rake: $0.02

Results below:

Spoiler

Hero didn't show K

, Q

.

 

[BenjiHustle]

With a pair, bet. That hand played out completely standard, imo. If you check, you set yourself up to fail. If they happen to have a 4h5h and catch a 4, 5, or heart, you may find yourself wishing you led out on the flop. My opinion, but I never check when I've got a hand unless I've got everyone else drawing dead and need to find a way to maximize value.

 

[Sneaky Feet]

Here's the same villain 2 hands later. What could he have had here? Pocket Kings? A few hands after this I actually sat out a few hands. He was really chasing hard. He was starting to make me nervous! Lol

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

UTG ($1.47)
UTG+1 ($2.07)
MP1 ($5.14)
MP2 ($2.30)
MP3 ($3.90)
CO ($5.79)
Button ($2.99)
Hero (SB) ($7.36)
BB ($7.91)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q

, 10

7 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, BB raises to $0.55, Hero calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.10) 2

, A

, Q

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.50, BB calls $0.50

Turn: ($2.10) 2

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.25, BB calls $1.25

River: ($4.60) 10

(2 players)
Hero bets $3.05, 1 fold

Total pot: $4.60 | Rake: $0.19

Results below:

Spoiler

Hero didn't show Q

, 10

(two pair, Queens and tens).

 

[John A]

Here's an interesting situation that came up last night. I had only been at the table for 20 hands or so and had really been getting some good cards. Villain started playing back at me because I had beat him a few time and I felt he was a little pissed. Everytime I entered a pot he'd call so IMO was trying to isolate me. Typically when hands like this come up I end up continuation betting anyway so that's not a big change but I feel like I may be shorting myself some value by doing so. Is it better to continue in a situation like this or check the flop in hopes that villain hits on the turn? I did only have 1 pair so that's why I bet the flop.

Villain was really not happy with me so had been calling everytime I entered.

Well, like everything it depends. If you don't have a lot of hands or info on your opponents, checking these kinds of flops from time to time is fine. A lot of players have bet when passed to disease, so opening up their bluffing range is good. Once you build history, and you're against competent opponents, that's more where balancing and game theory start to come into play. What do you want your hand range to be here when you check? I'm not going to get into that because at these stakes you should be focusing on exploitative play almost exclusively.

In this particular spot, if you think your opponent has a high potential of playing back, then betting is fine. Maybe even CR small to try and induce him to make an even bigger mistake. Reading the tension point of a player based on how the table is playing, and your dynamic is carrying out is an important and often overlooked aspect of the game. A simple example from someone I was coaching Tuesday.

He had a regular no 3 of his tables that was 3-betting him a ton. I think somewhere around 15%~. We were mixing in some 4-bets, calls and folds depending on the situation (so essentially my student was playing back at him a good bit). At one point I advised cold 4-betting against this opponent when he had position with I think something like A9o. Someone in the blinds cold called the 4bet and everyone folded. He ended up flopping A9 and stacking this guy, but the point is he showed down this hand against a decent reg who was likely paying attention.

Fast forward maybe 10 minutes later he picks up JJ UTG. Player in the CO calls, and this reg 3-bet squeezes on the button. Folds back to my student and he wanted to fold, and I said, no way... his range is going to super wide in this spot, but I think we were ~120 bbs deep. I told him to 4-bet/call. He 4-bet, reg on button 5 bet jammed. Student still wanted to fold. He called, and button reg showed AJo and my student won the hand.

The point being that you want to stay cognizant of the tension dynamic that's building and adjust your ranges accordingly. Just make sure that you aren't leveling yourself or being set up. A common example of being setup and making a bad decision would be opening, getting 3-bet and folding two times in close number of hands. Then you get 3-bet a third time by the same opponent. Usually you're going to be looking at a real hand at this point, so unless your opponent is a maniac, you'll want to make sure you don't react at this point.

This is also a reason I advocate 4-bet bluffing right away in a session, otherwise if you have a good regular on you, they will tend to exploit you and you won't know when the adjustments are being made. And I mean 4-bet bluffing at small stakes+. Not micro, unless you have a good reason to do so against an opponent.

 

[Sneaky Feet]

Well, like everything it depends. If you don't have a lot of hands or info on your opponents, checking these kinds of flops from time to time is fine. A lot of players have bet when passed to disease, so opening up their bluffing range is good. Once you build history, and you're against competent opponents, that's more where balancing and game theory start to come into play. What do you want your hand range to be here when you check? I'm not going to get into that because at these stakes you should be focusing on exploitative play almost exclusively.

In this particular spot, if you think your opponent has a high potential of playing back, then betting is fine. Maybe even CR small to try and induce him to make an even bigger mistake. Reading the tension point of a player based on how the table is playing, and your dynamic is carrying out is an important and often overlooked aspect of the game. A simple example from someone I was coaching Tuesday.

He had a regular no 3 of his tables that was 3-betting him a ton. I think somewhere around 15%~. We were mixing in some 4-bets, calls and folds depending on the situation (so essentially my student was playing back at him a good bit). At one point I advised cold 4-betting against this opponent when he had position with I think something like A9o. Someone in the blinds cold called the 4bet and everyone folded. He ended up flopping A9 and stacking this guy, but the point is he showed down this hand against a decent reg who was likely paying attention.

Fast forward maybe 10 minutes later he picks up JJ UTG. Player in the CO calls, and this reg 3-bet squeezes on the button. Folds back to my student and he wanted to fold, and I said, no way... his range is going to super wide in this spot, but I think we were ~120 bbs deep. I told him to 4-bet/call. He 4-bet, reg on button 5 bet jammed. Student still wanted to fold. He called, and button reg showed AJo and my student won the hand.

The point being that you want to stay cognizant of the tension dynamic that's building and adjust your ranges accordingly. Just make sure that you aren't leveling yourself or being set up. A common example of being setup and making a bad decision would be opening, getting 3-bet and folding two times in close number of hands. Then you get 3-bet a third time by the same opponent. Usually you're going to be looking at a real hand at this point, so unless your opponent is a maniac, you'll want to make sure you don't react at this point.

This is also a reason I advocate 4-bet bluffing right away in a session, otherwise if you have a good regular on you, they will tend to exploit you and you won't know when the adjustments are being made. And I mean 4-bet bluffing at small stakes+. Not micro, unless you have a good reason to do so against an opponent.

Wow John that's kind of awesome. That's a major gold nugget you just wrote there.

Your example with your student brought up another question from another hand last night. Same table but different villain. I had about 40-45 hands on this person and they had only played about 8 hands so either a bad run or fairly tight. Because this was the first hand I had actually played against them I 3bet light. He paused then 4 bet pretty aggressively so I folded thinking I was quite far behind. Now that I think about it should I have called and played the flop accordingly?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

Button ($1.28)
SB ($1.68)
BB ($5.44)
UTG ($2.10)
UTG+1 ($4.75)
MP1 ($5.44)
MP2 ($3.11)
Hero (MP3) ($10.06)
CO ($6.79)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 10

, 10

2 folds, MP1 raises to $0.20, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.45, 4 folds, MP1 raises to $1.35, 1 fold

Total pot: $0.97 | Rake: $0

Results below:

Spoiler

MP1 didn't show

 

[Figaroo2]

With the KQ hand above I'm betting to get value from KJ and KT or even 9x, at 2nl they are cold calling with those hands.


Here is an example not dissimilar to John's example.
Fish buying in for 50bb
I had already stacked him once (when he played 63, hit third pair on the flop and called me down, I had a full house) when shortly after the following hand came up.

His stats were awful 96/55/ 40% ag and 23% 3 bet in 55 hands

IPoker, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players

SB: $10 (100 bb)
BB: $5.93 (59.3 bb)
MP: $5.03 (50.3 bb) FISH
CO: $11.15 (111.5 bb)
Hero (BTN): $15.40 (154 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with Th Tc
MP raises to $0.20, CO folds, Hero raises to $0.60, 2 folds, MP raises to $0.80?
Hero calls $0.20

Flop: ($1.75) 8h Jc Js (2 players)
MP bets $1.22, He is playing every hand and I'm looking at this bet just knowing he has nothing, maybe an 8 at best so I put him all in and he calls it off.
Hero raises to $5.41, MP calls $3.01

Turn: ($10.21) 4h (2 players)
River: ($10.21) As (2 players)

Results: $10.21 pot ($0.68 rake)
Final Board: 8h Jc Js 4h As
MP showed Qh 2s and lost (-$5.03 net) calling it off with Q high!
Hero mucked Th Tc and won $9.53 ($4.50 net)

I can't believe how many fish are on the ipoker network.

 

[Sneaky Feet]

With the KQ hand above I'm betting to get value from KJ and KT or even 9x, at 2nl they are cold calling with those hands.


Here is an example not dissimilar to John's example.
Fish buying in for 50bb
I had already stacked him once (when he played 63, hit third pair on the flop and called me down, I had a full house) when shortly after the following hand came up.

His stats were awful 96/55/ 40% ag and 23% 3 bet in 55 hands

IPoker, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players

SB: $10 (100 bb)
BB: $5.93 (59.3 bb)
MP: $5.03 (50.3 bb) FISH
CO: $11.15 (111.5 bb)
Hero (BTN): $15.40 (154 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with Th Tc
MP raises to $0.20, CO folds, Hero raises to $0.60, 2 folds, MP raises to $0.80?
Hero calls $0.20

Flop: ($1.75) 8h Jc Js (2 players)
MP bets $1.22, He is playing every hand and I'm looking at this bet just knowing he has nothing, maybe an 8 at best so I put him all in and he calls it off.
Hero raises to $5.41, MP calls $3.01

Turn: ($10.21) 4h (2 players)
River: ($10.21) As (2 players)

Results: $10.21 pot ($0.68 rake)
Final Board: 8h Jc Js 4h As
MP showed Qh 2s and lost (-$5.03 net) calling it off with Q high!
Hero mucked Th Tc and won $9.53 ($4.50 net)

I can't believe how many fish are on the ipoker network.

The best part of this is that you had already stacked him once. You would think he would learn his lesson! Nicely done

 

[BenjiHustle]

Any thoughts on this one?

Merge - $0.04 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 43.25 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
SB: 39 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
BB: 15.5 BB (VPIP: 42.86, PFR: 3.90, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 77)
UTG: 108.25 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
UTG+1: 73.25 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
Hero (MP): 124.25 BB
CO: 88.25 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K:club: K:diamond:

fold, UTG+1 calls 1 BB, Hero raises to 4 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG+1 calls 3 BB

Flop: (9.5 BB, 2 players) 4:diamond: 7:club: J:heart:
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets 5 BB, UTG+1 calls 5 BB

Turn: (19.5 BB, 2 players) 5:diamond:
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets 14 BB, UTG+1 calls 14 BB

River: (47.5 BB, 2 players) 8:diamond:

Spoiler

UTG+1 checks, Hero bets 23.75 BB, UTG+1 calls 23.75 BB

Hero shows K:club: K:diamond: (One Pair, Kings) (Pre 81%, Flop 9%, Turn 5%)
UTG+1 shows 4:heart: 4:club: (Three of a Kind, Fours) (Pre 19%, Flop 91%, Turn 95%)
UTG+1 wins 89.75 BB

 

[John A]

Wow John that's kind of awesome. That's a major gold nugget you just wrote there.

Your example with your student brought up another question from another hand last night. Same table but different villain. I had about 40-45 hands on this person and they had only played about 8 hands so either a bad run or fairly tight. Because this was the first hand I had actually played against them I 3bet light. He paused then 4 bet pretty aggressively so I folded thinking I was quite far behind. Now that I think about it should I have called and played the flop accordingly?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

Button ($1.28)
SB ($1.68)
BB ($5.44)
UTG ($2.10)
UTG+1 ($4.75)
MP1 ($5.44)
MP2 ($3.11)
Hero (MP3) ($10.06)
CO ($6.79)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 10

, 10

2 folds, MP1 raises to $0.20, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.45, 4 folds, MP1 raises to $1.35, 1 fold

Total pot: $0.97 | Rake: $0

Results below:

Spoiler

MP1 didn't show

I'd say no. Not if your opponent is playing tight and really has no reason the be playing back at you. If someone like this is 4x opening, then I'd just flat since you have positions. There's really not any value in 3-betting versus their range in this spot unless you're planning on outplaying them and trying to turn your hand into a bluff.