Live Grind: How to Fall Asleep at the Table (Without Getting Caught)
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Brovada managed to get 25nl zone running again - thank goodness - AND I managed my first solid winning session since my deposit. Was just 2-tabling, and since 10nl will likely stop running (since 25nl is going again), I may keep it that way until my online roll grows some.
I felt very in command in most of the spots I was in, and was able to stay disciplined despite tilt earlier in the day. Online roll back up to $150, which is basically where I was after losing that weird $35 and brovada giving me a $30+$3 tourney ticket instead.
Definitely nice to have a bigger buffer, where I actually feel like I can play 25nl and not worry too much about having to redeposit at a moment's notice.
I felt very in command in most of the spots I was in, and was able to stay disciplined despite tilt earlier in the day. Online roll back up to $150, which is basically where I was after losing that weird $35 and brovada giving me a $30+$3 tourney ticket instead.
Definitely nice to have a bigger buffer, where I actually feel like I can play 25nl and not worry too much about having to redeposit at a moment's notice.
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
65s? If you're talking about %'s, I don't get it. If you're saying this is a bad hand combo then fine. I don't agree but that's at least a little subjective.
But if you're saying my range is "too wide" I just don't understand how, since no one knows how often we are isoing an utg limp from the btn.
duggs
Killing me softly
Silver Level
i meant if you are isoing this hand then presumably your iso range is continuous in that you iso all better hands. that means that you are isoing 45% of the deck i guess? or at least 35% which seem too much for me and there are hands id much rather iso, and hands like this, Axs and 66/77 and below and some o/s connectors which play better limped than raised.
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
I don't think they play better limped than raised, given we are playing against a weak range, and we're IP. We're not really playing for implied odds, are we? And it's not like raising makes SPR shrink to a tiny number, so we still have playability. An iso doesn't have to be for value per se - not even close imo.
Also I promise you 65s is not in the bottom 55% of hands, maybe not even bottom 65%, since I'd raise that before something like K5o, but I still don't get the reasoning of "35% is too much," unless you think overlimping is inherently more profitably. And if there are hands you'd rather iso... go ahead and iso them too? We're not limited by having to balance our range - not even slightly. So we should take every spot in an almost-vacuum and try to make the best +EV move. We're not ignoring our own range per se, but we only care about villain's perception of it. We don't need to maintain a real balance.
I agree that 77- are going to play better as overlimps, but disagree about Axs and SC. Thing about small PP's is that we just don't flop as big a piece of equity very often. When we do we usually crush the board but there's no promise of getting paid stacks so the deeper the SPR the better (in a 100bb game). But Axs and SC's aren't going to smash boards that often. We're going to flop pieces and draws, and those make good cbetting and barreling hands. Plus, very often we just take it down after cbetting or double barreling with nothing on a good texture (far more frequently than when we overlimp and try to steal with pure air).
It just seems like when we overlimp we have to rely too heavily on actually flopping something semi-decent, and we just don't have great implied odds. When we have more fold equity than implied odds it seems better to me to be in there raising than overlimping from the get-go.
@redwards: Yes there are HUD's allowed (and I have one) for regular tables, but zone games are anonymous from hand-to-hand, so you never know who you're playing against (barring redic stack size reads, like someone sitting on 500bb+). Means we're effectively playing unknowns 100% of the time. Or rather, a distribution of players rather than a single opponent (a range of players - sound familiar? ).
Also I promise you 65s is not in the bottom 55% of hands, maybe not even bottom 65%, since I'd raise that before something like K5o, but I still don't get the reasoning of "35% is too much," unless you think overlimping is inherently more profitably. And if there are hands you'd rather iso... go ahead and iso them too? We're not limited by having to balance our range - not even slightly. So we should take every spot in an almost-vacuum and try to make the best +EV move. We're not ignoring our own range per se, but we only care about villain's perception of it. We don't need to maintain a real balance.
I agree that 77- are going to play better as overlimps, but disagree about Axs and SC. Thing about small PP's is that we just don't flop as big a piece of equity very often. When we do we usually crush the board but there's no promise of getting paid stacks so the deeper the SPR the better (in a 100bb game). But Axs and SC's aren't going to smash boards that often. We're going to flop pieces and draws, and those make good cbetting and barreling hands. Plus, very often we just take it down after cbetting or double barreling with nothing on a good texture (far more frequently than when we overlimp and try to steal with pure air).
It just seems like when we overlimp we have to rely too heavily on actually flopping something semi-decent, and we just don't have great implied odds. When we have more fold equity than implied odds it seems better to me to be in there raising than overlimping from the get-go.
@redwards: Yes there are HUD's allowed (and I have one) for regular tables, but zone games are anonymous from hand-to-hand, so you never know who you're playing against (barring redic stack size reads, like someone sitting on 500bb+). Means we're effectively playing unknowns 100% of the time. Or rather, a distribution of players rather than a single opponent (a range of players - sound familiar?
).
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
What an up-and-down day. Work was pretty boring in the morning, but then took an exam for one of my required training classes, and passed (got 90%, 85% needed to pass). So that was good.
Then got a call from my parents. Both my grandparents that I actually know/have been close with - they're both my parental grandparents, but have been divorced for ages - have been doing kind of badly. My grandfather was recently diagnosed with alzheimer's disease. Then a few days ago my grandmother had a pretty bad fall and had to be hospitalized. She was doing pretty awful as she was refusing meds. My dad has authority to make her medical decisions for her, but managed to convince her to take pain meds without having to exert that authority, so that was good. She's recovering more slowly than we hoped, but she's okay now.
My grandfather was recently moved into hospice care though, and since moving there he has deteriorated rapidly. It's to the point where he's no longer eating, and he doesn't drink very much. They say he has a few days, maybe a week or so at most. My parents are trying to get out there this weekend, to hopefully be there when he passes. I don't really have that luxury, what with my job - but I'm kind of grateful for that? I'm sad he's so close to death, and I want to be there for him, but I can't help selfishly wondering what I would realistically be able to do for him - sitting there and waiting for him to pass away in his sleep. So in a way I'm glad I won't be able to go until he passes and I get bereavement leave.
In the meantime I have to go about living my own life. As frustrating as it is to not be able to support him in a closer way, I know that my grandfather is at that point where my support would be almost unnoticed, sad as it is. I managed to see him a couple months ago, right before I graduated from school. At that point he had wasted away relative to the last time I had seen him. He looked old in a way he never had before, with his body frail and weak.
It was his eyes that were the most disturbing though. When I walked into the room and looked at him, he looked empty, vacant. Like the light behind his eyes was gone.
But then we stepped into his room, and a nurse wheeled him over to us, and he saw me.
"Who's that tall guy," he squeaked out. His voice was weak but there was still humor there.
And his eyes twinkled, even as they stared with an unintentional intensity.
That's how I choose to know him, even now. A sharp-witted man who always looks for humor to brighten the room, and refuses to shave his beard no matter how many nurses try to convince him. I wasn't as close with my grandfather as I would have liked, but I love him very much, and always will.
I didn't expect to write all that when I sat down to write this post. I wanted to express the swings of my day, and give a synopsis, but I didn't mean to delve this deeply. It's okay though, and I hope you guys don't mind, because writing it was cathartic for me. I'm not looking for anyone to focus on it in the thread or anything. But I also tend to share parts of my life itt anyway, so, there it is.
To finally sum up what I initially meant this post to be:
After hearing the news about my grandfather, I was sad and dejected of course. But I didn't want to wallow. I had known rationally that some point sooner rather than later I would have to start saying goodbye.
So I went about the rest of my evening as usual. I watched some TV (Scrubs, to get me in better spirits), and made the decision to grind some Zone 25nl on Bovada. I almost didn't, because of obvious emotional reasons, but in the end, I wanted to play.
I started 2 tabling 25nl, and realized quite quickly that I was playing well. It's not so much that I was running big bluffs that worked or that I was making big value hands and getting paid. It was more that I was just being disciplined. I was opening quite wide preflop, and was beginning to 3b closer to my normal %'s for Zone 25nl (I 3b less at lower limits). When I got played back at in spots where villains usually have strong hands, I didn't even FEEL stubborn. I just folded. And in a number of spots in multiway pots against weak ranges where normally I would have checked through, I put bets or raises in that I knew were profitable.
In fact I basically just chipped up slowly but surely for the first hour or so. It wasn't until later that I started to heat up and win bigger hands. I'll probably look for these hands later, but in one spot I 4b 43 BTN vs. BB, and the BB flatted. I flopped a pair and a wheel draw on an A high board, and he checked. I cbet and he essentially clicked it back. Call it spew, call it a feeling, call it "I just didn't see what he could have," but I didn't put him on an A or a PP, so I jammed. He called it off getting an insane price with T9s. He turned a FD but I managed to hold with 4th pair to take it down.
Then I cb in a 3b pot, got called, and turned the world, getting a backdoor NFD and a gutshot. I jammed and got snapped off by a worse FD. I held and my A high was good.
After that it slowed down some, but big pots developed from time to time. I managed to get it in as a 90% favorite 3way on K53 two tone holding 33. AA and TT were no good on the river, and that pot careened me to a $130 stack on one of my tables. I broke even for a while after that and eventually lost a stack in a spot where I was probably not doing any better than flipping against villains range (we flop top and bottom on AKQ after calling PFR and going 3way - gii OTT vs. JT and can't spike 4-outer).
It was nice to post a real winner. None of this +0.3 BI's stuff. Obviously poker isn't just about big winning sessions, but it's been a long time since I've had one. My online roll sits at just about $240, so I'm feeling very comfortable playing 25nl. I'm still trying to hold off on mixing in 50 until I can top off pretty easily even when I lose some big pots back to back. I may start mixing it in as soon as $400 or so, but the goal is to wait until I've got at least $600. We'll see how that goes though
All in all, a stressful day, but I know I'll get through all this and probably manage to be a better person for it and whatnot too. Depending on the timing of things this thread may go a little dead at some point. So if and when that happens: cheers, thanks for your support and interest, and I'll catch ya next time.
Then got a call from my parents. Both my grandparents that I actually know/have been close with - they're both my parental grandparents, but have been divorced for ages - have been doing kind of badly. My grandfather was recently diagnosed with alzheimer's disease. Then a few days ago my grandmother had a pretty bad fall and had to be hospitalized. She was doing pretty awful as she was refusing meds. My dad has authority to make her medical decisions for her, but managed to convince her to take pain meds without having to exert that authority, so that was good. She's recovering more slowly than we hoped, but she's okay now.
My grandfather was recently moved into hospice care though, and since moving there he has deteriorated rapidly. It's to the point where he's no longer eating, and he doesn't drink very much. They say he has a few days, maybe a week or so at most. My parents are trying to get out there this weekend, to hopefully be there when he passes. I don't really have that luxury, what with my job - but I'm kind of grateful for that? I'm sad he's so close to death, and I want to be there for him, but I can't help selfishly wondering what I would realistically be able to do for him - sitting there and waiting for him to pass away in his sleep. So in a way I'm glad I won't be able to go until he passes and I get bereavement leave.
In the meantime I have to go about living my own life. As frustrating as it is to not be able to support him in a closer way, I know that my grandfather is at that point where my support would be almost unnoticed, sad as it is. I managed to see him a couple months ago, right before I graduated from school. At that point he had wasted away relative to the last time I had seen him. He looked old in a way he never had before, with his body frail and weak.
It was his eyes that were the most disturbing though. When I walked into the room and looked at him, he looked empty, vacant. Like the light behind his eyes was gone.
But then we stepped into his room, and a nurse wheeled him over to us, and he saw me.
"Who's that tall guy," he squeaked out. His voice was weak but there was still humor there.
And his eyes twinkled, even as they stared with an unintentional intensity.
That's how I choose to know him, even now. A sharp-witted man who always looks for humor to brighten the room, and refuses to shave his beard no matter how many nurses try to convince him. I wasn't as close with my grandfather as I would have liked, but I love him very much, and always will.
I didn't expect to write all that when I sat down to write this post. I wanted to express the swings of my day, and give a synopsis, but I didn't mean to delve this deeply. It's okay though, and I hope you guys don't mind, because writing it was cathartic for me. I'm not looking for anyone to focus on it in the thread or anything. But I also tend to share parts of my life itt anyway, so, there it is.
To finally sum up what I initially meant this post to be:
After hearing the news about my grandfather, I was sad and dejected of course. But I didn't want to wallow. I had known rationally that some point sooner rather than later I would have to start saying goodbye.
So I went about the rest of my evening as usual. I watched some TV (Scrubs, to get me in better spirits), and made the decision to grind some Zone 25nl on Bovada. I almost didn't, because of obvious emotional reasons, but in the end, I wanted to play.
I started 2 tabling 25nl, and realized quite quickly that I was playing well. It's not so much that I was running big bluffs that worked or that I was making big value hands and getting paid. It was more that I was just being disciplined. I was opening quite wide preflop, and was beginning to 3b closer to my normal %'s for Zone 25nl (I 3b less at lower limits). When I got played back at in spots where villains usually have strong hands, I didn't even FEEL stubborn. I just folded. And in a number of spots in multiway pots against weak ranges where normally I would have checked through, I put bets or raises in that I knew were profitable.
In fact I basically just chipped up slowly but surely for the first hour or so. It wasn't until later that I started to heat up and win bigger hands. I'll probably look for these hands later, but in one spot I 4b 43 BTN vs. BB, and the BB flatted. I flopped a pair and a wheel draw on an A high board, and he checked. I cbet and he essentially clicked it back. Call it spew, call it a feeling, call it "I just didn't see what he could have," but I didn't put him on an A or a PP, so I jammed. He called it off getting an insane price with T9s. He turned a FD but I managed to hold with 4th pair to take it down.
Then I cb in a 3b pot, got called, and turned the world, getting a backdoor NFD and a gutshot. I jammed and got snapped off by a worse FD. I held and my A high was good.
After that it slowed down some, but big pots developed from time to time. I managed to get it in as a 90% favorite 3way on K53 two tone holding 33. AA and TT were no good on the river, and that pot careened me to a $130 stack on one of my tables. I broke even for a while after that and eventually lost a stack in a spot where I was probably not doing any better than flipping against villains range (we flop top and bottom on AKQ after calling PFR and going 3way - gii OTT vs. JT and can't spike 4-outer).
It was nice to post a real winner. None of this +0.3 BI's stuff. Obviously poker isn't just about big winning sessions, but it's been a long time since I've had one. My online roll sits at just about $240, so I'm feeling very comfortable playing 25nl. I'm still trying to hold off on mixing in 50 until I can top off pretty easily even when I lose some big pots back to back. I may start mixing it in as soon as $400 or so, but the goal is to wait until I've got at least $600. We'll see how that goes though
All in all, a stressful day, but I know I'll get through all this and probably manage to be a better person for it and whatnot too. Depending on the timing of things this thread may go a little dead at some point. So if and when that happens: cheers, thanks for your support and interest, and I'll catch ya next time.
Logan2
Legend
Silver Level
Sorry to read about your grandpa
When you mention the eyes part and how it looks empty it remember me when my grandmother pass away couple years back, i think is really different when you know someone is close to the end, then someone tell you it happen then maybe you see it when already gone, but when you see it right there the last minute and last breath it is close to what you mention about the eyes and how it looks like empty, very sad moments, but in toh the person there really need someone to hold his hand in last moment of his life...
Don´t want to go more on to this but just want to tell that i´m sorry, just try to remember the good times and how that person make your life little (or a lot) more happier.
Is just part of life but always hard...
When you mention the eyes part and how it looks empty it remember me when my grandmother pass away couple years back, i think is really different when you know someone is close to the end, then someone tell you it happen then maybe you see it when already gone, but when you see it right there the last minute and last breath it is close to what you mention about the eyes and how it looks like empty, very sad moments, but in toh the person there really need someone to hold his hand in last moment of his life...
Don´t want to go more on to this but just want to tell that i´m sorry, just try to remember the good times and how that person make your life little (or a lot) more happier.
Is just part of life but always hard...
Mr Sandbag
Legend
Silver Level
Sorry to hear about your grandfather, Scourrge. That kinda stuff is really tough. One of those things where you can't really do anything to make it better but instead just have to deal with it when it happens and look out for yourself and your family during that time.
Definitely glad to see poker starting to swing the other way for you!
Definitely glad to see poker starting to swing the other way for you!
duggs
Killing me softly
Silver Level
Yea i mean i felt the same way with my grandma tbh, id spent weeks at the hospital over the years waiting for her to die, and i didn't really want to watch it after watching my grandad so close to death which was painful and sad. And both of them were extremely sharp up until a few hours before they died, I couldn't imagine it with any degenerative disorder. hope your mum/dad is coping well.
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Thanks very much for your kind words, everyone. I appreciate you all sharing your perspectives as well. Today at work was really hard, as some of it hadn't hit me last night. But I'm doing okay.
As for poker, things were kind of weird today. I started out playing 10PLO since it was running on Zone, but for some reason the tables were taking forever to fill for each new hand. So I switched to 25nl and 10nl zone.
Thing were pretty standard for a while, though I was bleeding. Got paid off in a few semi-thin value bet spots, so that was good and I was in profit, with 400bb on one of my 25nl tables.
I decided I was going to quit my session soon, and of course that's when everything went to shit. 3 separate times I took pretty believable bluff lines and just got picked off by one pair hands (presumably by passive fish). I simultaneously stopped making any kind of hand. Additionally, the last 4 or 5 times I 3b I was either 4b or got called. And for the times I got called, my cbets didn't get through at ALL. Just a tops-of-ranges type streak, but still pretty aggravating, and meant I was hemorrhaging chips for the last 10 minutes or so. Went from +~$30 or so to -$40 in prob the last 5 minutes alone, which is never fun.
Anyway, technically still sitting on profit, with online roll at $200. Not bad especially considering Bovada's nonsense with the $35 taken out of my roll and replaced with a $33 tourney ticket.
I got a little heated at the end, just because literally nothing was going right, and an otherwise profitable session had to be tossed into the "loser" pile. Plus some of the stuff I was facing was absurd. But realistically, it was mostly standard stuff and just variance that it was all smushed together. I played pretty well, though I'm struggling mixing 10nl and 25nl.
I feel like 10nl to 25nl is one of the larger jumps in Bovada Zone games. Not exactly in terms of "skill jump," but in that at 25nl people start making different mistakes. At 10nl, people mostly still just call too much and aren't aggressive enough. At 25nl, people start making a variety of mistakes, including cbetting too much, and folding too much on certain board types.
So it can be hard to play these two limits together. Harder than playing 5nl and 10nl together, or 25nl and 50nl together, for example. I may just switch back to 2-tabling 25nl zone until I can mix in a table or two of 50nl.
Oh, and before I forget, here's another video I made, from the other night:
As for poker, things were kind of weird today. I started out playing 10PLO since it was running on Zone, but for some reason the tables were taking forever to fill for each new hand. So I switched to 25nl and 10nl zone.
Thing were pretty standard for a while, though I was bleeding. Got paid off in a few semi-thin value bet spots, so that was good and I was in profit, with 400bb on one of my 25nl tables.
I decided I was going to quit my session soon, and of course that's when everything went to shit. 3 separate times I took pretty believable bluff lines and just got picked off by one pair hands (presumably by passive fish). I simultaneously stopped making any kind of hand. Additionally, the last 4 or 5 times I 3b I was either 4b or got called. And for the times I got called, my cbets didn't get through at ALL. Just a tops-of-ranges type streak, but still pretty aggravating, and meant I was hemorrhaging chips for the last 10 minutes or so. Went from +~$30 or so to -$40 in prob the last 5 minutes alone, which is never fun.
Anyway, technically still sitting on profit, with online roll at $200. Not bad especially considering Bovada's nonsense with the $35 taken out of my roll and replaced with a $33 tourney ticket.
I got a little heated at the end, just because literally nothing was going right, and an otherwise profitable session had to be tossed into the "loser" pile. Plus some of the stuff I was facing was absurd. But realistically, it was mostly standard stuff and just variance that it was all smushed together. I played pretty well, though I'm struggling mixing 10nl and 25nl.
I feel like 10nl to 25nl is one of the larger jumps in Bovada Zone games. Not exactly in terms of "skill jump," but in that at 25nl people start making different mistakes. At 10nl, people mostly still just call too much and aren't aggressive enough. At 25nl, people start making a variety of mistakes, including cbetting too much, and folding too much on certain board types.
So it can be hard to play these two limits together. Harder than playing 5nl and 10nl together, or 25nl and 50nl together, for example. I may just switch back to 2-tabling 25nl zone until I can mix in a table or two of 50nl.
Oh, and before I forget, here's another video I made, from the other night:
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Oh, and for shits'n'giggles...
5nl zone:
10nl zone:
25nl zone:
50nl zone:
Obv very sick samples for each, especially 50nl This doesn't include today, and not all of yesterday either. Probably not the parts where I ran really good at 25nl either, cause I ran pretty hot.
5nl zone:
10nl zone:
25nl zone:
50nl zone:
Obv very sick samples for each, especially 50nl
This doesn't include today, and not all of yesterday either. Probably not the parts where I ran really good at 25nl either, cause I ran pretty hot.
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
And here's a pretty weird spot for you. Looking back I'm not even sure I like the squeeze pre, but flatting seems pretty shitty.
PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
Hero (SB): 169.5 BB
BB: 124.86 BB (VPIP: 27.50, PFR: 4.87, 3Bet Preflop: 4.10, Hands: 1,143)
UTG: 57 BB (VPIP: 26.31, PFR: 15.77, 3Bet Preflop: 1.92, Hands: 1,148)
MP: 146.2 BB (VPIP: 26.42, PFR: 15.76, 3Bet Preflop: 2.83, Hands: 1,143)
CO: 131.4 BB (VPIP: 28.03, PFR: 14.63, 3Bet Preflop: 2.67, Hands: 1,138)
BTN: 143.14 BB (VPIP: 30.68, PFR: 15.72, 3Bet Preflop: 4.32, Hands: 1,131)
Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q:spade: A:club:
fold, MP raises to 3 BB, CO calls 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, Hero raises to 15 BB, fold, MP calls 12 BB, CO calls 12 BB, fold
Flop: (49 BB, 3 players) Q:diamond: 9:heart: 3:diamond:
Hero checks, MP checks, CO bets 36 BB, Hero calls 36 BB, fold
Turn: (121 BB, 2 players) T:diamond:
Hero checks, CO bets 80.4 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 80.4 BB
PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
Hero (SB): 169.5 BB
BB: 124.86 BB (VPIP: 27.50, PFR: 4.87, 3Bet Preflop: 4.10, Hands: 1,143)
UTG: 57 BB (VPIP: 26.31, PFR: 15.77, 3Bet Preflop: 1.92, Hands: 1,148)
MP: 146.2 BB (VPIP: 26.42, PFR: 15.76, 3Bet Preflop: 2.83, Hands: 1,143)
CO: 131.4 BB (VPIP: 28.03, PFR: 14.63, 3Bet Preflop: 2.67, Hands: 1,138)
BTN: 143.14 BB (VPIP: 30.68, PFR: 15.72, 3Bet Preflop: 4.32, Hands: 1,131)
Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q:spade: A:club:
fold, MP raises to 3 BB, CO calls 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, Hero raises to 15 BB, fold, MP calls 12 BB, CO calls 12 BB, fold
Flop: (49 BB, 3 players) Q:diamond: 9:heart: 3:diamond:
Hero checks, MP checks, CO bets 36 BB, Hero calls 36 BB, fold
Turn: (121 BB, 2 players) T:diamond:
Hero checks, CO bets 80.4 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 80.4 BB
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Kind of more interested in what you think my line should be lol. (Unless the bold part means you actually like the line.) Looking back on it more today, my thoughts have changed somewhat. I feel like probably once I squeeze I should be cbet/gii on this wettish board. When I x/c the flop it puts me in weird spots where I'm basically always priced in to call, though this is kind of one of the worst cards in the deck. I guess maybe Kd or Jd would be worse.
The tricky thing in this spot is that the majority of villains in CO's spot wouldn't be betting air OTF. And many villains wouldn't even bet FD's, though a lot of his FD's are combo draws. He has 6 combos of sets, 8 combos of KQ, 6 combos of AQ, and 8 combos of QJ (though we have to at least discount that prob). I guess he might even have QJ or QT sometimes which, combined with possibly FD's probably makes the turn a x/f.
But there must be a better way? Betting flop kind of has to be best here when we squeeze huge, get too much action, and flop TP, but it just feels thin to bet almost? Not articulating well here, but at the time I felt like not much out there would call me. In retrospect idk that's true though. JJ/TT, JTs, FD's, Qx, maybe even 9x will call 1 street at least. But then I guess I'm x/f this particular turn card? Or am I jamming to gii vs. FD's and JT and some Qx?
BenjiHustle
Legend
Silver Level
Yeah, it means I would have done the exact same thing.
I understand what you're saying, and a x/r to gii OTF would have been good, but all of a sudden villain has no bluff option and with the pot as big as it is, he could bluff KT/JT OTT all day.
The turn not only made hands, but opened up the table to air bets, too. Though, the worst thing we can do is take too much comfort in the fact that we're not getting bluffed.
I understand what you're saying, and a x/r to gii OTF would have been good, but all of a sudden villain has no bluff option and with the pot as big as it is, he could bluff KT/JT OTT all day.
The turn not only made hands, but opened up the table to air bets, too. Though, the worst thing we can do is take too much comfort in the fact that we're not getting bluffed.
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Can we really x/f flop? There's only so many combos that beat us. Do you think he bets worse for value? I think KQ bets for sure, but he has every set combo except QQ which kind of sucks. Do you not want to bet flop for value from draws though? I understand what you're saying about air not leading and draws maybe not either. But draws surely call a bet?