Ongoing Soccer Thread

[Gesshoo]

Giggs PFA Player of the Year?

Seems like a strange choice. He has only played the full 90 minutes on 9 occasions and has only played 1223 minutes out of a possible 3060 - about 40%. He has scored 1 league goal.

I think several ManU players have had better seasons, but I guess it is more of a reflection of his outstanding career - so in that regard it is well-deserved, albeit a strange choice this season.

 

[Crystal Blue]

Even Ferguson admitted they were lucky. You seem to have a problem with that word. If you were watching the game, I'm sure you felt the same sudden burst of hope and expectation that the players did when the "penalty" was given.

That is why it changed the game.

But hey - you won. Was it good luck that turned the game? Yes. Did ManU take full advantage of it like a good team should? Yes.

Be strong. Stand up in front of the group and say "I am Crystal Blue and I follow a team that got lucky yesterday".

You'll feel better.

Trust me.....

Ferguson said they were "lucky" to be awarded the penalty, he didn't however say utd were lucky to win the game. It's a very rare thing when a team that wins 5-2 did it by luck, yesterday being no exception.
The introduction of Tevez at half time ( well 46 minutes ) was the initial turning point of the game for me, he entered the field and started to get things going, forcing Gomes to make a save with his leg on 53 minutes. Utd were in the ascendancy at that point and 4 minutes later were awarded the penalty, which still had to be scored btw and lets not forget their dire penalty attempts against Everton.
Speaking of which, you didn't read anything in here from me stating how "unlucky" utd were not to get a penalty in that match.
I found an old link for you to read, United weren't awarded a penalty in this match but did the same thing as they did yesterday in the second half. Were they lucky, I don't think so.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/1567733.stm

Maybe it's you that needs to stand up and be strong and accept that utd turned the game on it's head through hard work, skill, heart, and that never say die attitude.

 

[Gesshoo]

Forget it - you are obviously one of those ManU fans that makes it so difficult for a fan of another club to give your team the respect they deserve.

I KNOW that ManU is a great team. They have proved it over and over. Unfortunately, some of their fans need to cram it down people's throats and forget all those years when they were less than ordinary.

On the other hand, some of their fans are great. I have a friend over here from England who has been a ManU fan his entire life. He is a nice guy and a good football fan. We can talk about this stuff and he doesn't have this psychological problem with saying "We got lucky with that penalty yesterday" instead of "We are the best team in the world and deserved it and the penalty didn't affect the result in any way".

The whole world knows when the game changed yesterday. Except for those fans referred to above. And I find that sad.

 

[Crystal Blue]

Forget it - you are obviously one of those ManU fans that makes it so difficult for a fan of another club to give your team the respect they deserve.

I KNOW that ManU is a great team. They have proved it over and over. Unfortunately, some of their fans need to cram it down people's throats and forget all those years when they were less than ordinary.

On the other hand, some of their fans are great. I have a friend over here from England who has been a ManU fan his entire life. He is a nice guy and a good football fan. We can talk about this stuff and he doesn't have this psychological problem with saying "We got lucky with that penalty yesterday" instead of "We are the best team in the world and deserved it and the penalty didn't affect the result in any way".

The whole world knows when the game changed yesterday. Except for those fans referred to above. And I find that sad.

I never come to this thread gloating about Man Utd, ever. I do however have a civil debate about football, it is a football thread after all. Some might need to "cram it down peoples throats," I am not one of those people though, I can assure you of that, if indeed that is what you are saying. It's been many years since I found myself in the sort of aggro discussion about football or a certain team that you speak of, I like to have a civil debate. I've witnessed two old man beating the shit out of each other with their walking sticks over football smack talk, it's ridiculous. Yes of course Man Utd were lucky to get that penalty award, even a blind man could see that, but they were in no way whatsoever lucky to win the game.

I did say Utd were English, European, and World club champions though, I will give you that, but it was used to make a point and in a non gloating fashion, I was stating a fact at the time and using to illustrate that such success is earned not handed on a plate.
Yes of course, utd weren't always this successful, no team stays successful without long dips. Saying that, when your team are successful, there is nothing wrong with enjoying that success.
End of the day, Spurs were better than Utd by a long way in the 1st half, 2nd half, Utd stuffed them good and proper. They were given a penalty that wasn't, that was lucky and added to their already gathering momentum. The end result was never lucky.

 

[blacksun]

I'm not sure what game you were watching but whatever. Also I've played more football than you have likely even seen on tv. To be awarded a penalty you have to be on the attack and in your opponents penalty area, hardly devoid of ideas but again whatever.
Man Utd ALWAYS believe they can get something out of a game, that's why they are English, European, and World club champions.

Firstly I've played and been to watch football for 25 years, 2ndly U dont have to be causing the opposition problems to be in their box a simple thru ball puts u there. Id believe I was gonna win every game if I got the decisions Utd got in that game. Did Utd turn it on after 2 decisions got them 2 goals back in a game they werent in, sure but its easy then. The result would have been very different if the pen hadnt been given thats the point.

 

[Crystal Blue]

Giggs PFA Player of the Year?

Seems like a strange choice. He has only played the full 90 minutes on 9 occasions and has only played 1223 minutes out of a possible 3060 - about 40%. He has scored 1 league goal.

I think several ManU players have had better seasons, but I guess it is more of a reflection of his outstanding career - so in that regard it is well-deserved, albeit a strange choice this season.

I agree that it is a strange choice mostly. It is "player of the year" after all. He hasn't started many games this season even though each time he has played he has done very well. There are many others more worthy of the award looking at the season/year as a whole. Lifetime achievement award to football yes, player of the year no imo.

 

[blacksun]

I agree that it is a strange choice mostly. It is "player of the year" after all. He hasn't started many games this season even though each time he has played he has done very well. There are many others more worthy of the award looking at the season/year as a whole. Lifetime achievement award to football yes, player of the year no imo.

TBH this stems from the long voiced issue of the nominees having to be picked at the beginning of Feb, I have said B4 and will again that despite not being Lampards biggest fan over the years its ridiculous he wasnt even nominated, hes dragged a very average Chelsea side thru a poor season. Giggs is a sentimental choice IMO and Rooney deserved to be selected ahead of Giggs hes been Utd's best player by far, and it was him moving out to the left forcing Lennon to play deeper that changed the game yesterday rather than Tevez coming on.

 

[Crystal Blue]

The result would have been very different if the pen hadnt been given thats the point.

Would it, how so?

 

[blacksun]

Would it, how so?

Well we will never know will we but look at it this way, had the ref not wrongly chalked of Gerrards goal at Anfield V Stoke earlier in the season would that game have ended 0-0?

 

[Crystal Blue]

and it was him moving out to the left forcing Lennon to play deeper that changed the game yesterday rather than Tevez coming on.

Ferguson said ( quote ) " Carlos Tevez was responsible for the energy in the second half, he got the fans and the players going"
Glad you admit tactics changed the game though.

 

[blacksun]

Ferguson said ( quote ) " Carlos Tevez was responsible for the energy in the second half, he got the fans and the players going"
Glad you admit tactics changed the game though.

I never said the game didnt change I said U didnt really threaten, that is true. U clearly had control of the ball and therefore the game before the pen but theres a world of difference between that and scoring, if not all those draws at Anfield this year that look to have cost Liverpool the title would in fact be wins as we dominated all of them.

As for Tevez, of course Ferguson is saying nice things about him, Rooney isnt threatening to leave at the end of the season.

 

[Crystal Blue]

Well we will never know will we but look at it this way, had the ref not wrongly chalked of Gerrards goal at Anfield V Stoke earlier in the season would that game have ended 0-0?

That's the thing though blacksun, no one can say what might of been, especially in football. I learned a long time ago to just accept what these referee's come up with, even when they are blatantly wrong. It would be just torture to dwell on such things and doesn't change anything.

 

[blacksun]

That's the thing though blacksun, no one can say what might of been, especially in football. I learned a long time ago to just accept what these referee's come up with, even when they are blatantly wrong. It would be just torture to dwell on such things and doesn't change anything.

but then we wouldnt be fans lol

 

[Crystal Blue]

I never said the game didnt change I said U didnt really threaten, that is true. U clearly had control of the ball and therefore the game before the pen but theres a world of difference between that and scoring, if not all those draws at Anfield this year that look to have cost Liverpool the title would in fact be wins as we dominated all of them.

As for Tevez, of course Ferguson is saying nice things about him, Rooney isnt threatening to leave at the end of the season.

You have to score more goals than the opposition to win, regardless of domination, that's what utd did yesterday. Utd have dominated plenty of games that they have not won in the past and likewise have won some when they didn't dominate. Also that old adage of "it's a game of two halves" can often be very relevant, just like it was yesterday.

If you think Ferguson is in the habit of kissing players azz because they threaten to leave, think on.

 

[blacksun]

If you think Ferguson is in the habit of kissing players azz because they threaten to leave, think on.

All managers do what they need to (within reason) to keep players happy, some need the arm round the shoulder others need to be kept in line, Rafas doing the same with Agger right now, lets be fair we all know Fergie likes the psychological side of football, this is just another example.

Fergie doesnt want Tevez joining Madrid or Liverpool (the two clubs being linked with him) anymore than he wants Ronaldo to go to Madrid, it doesnt mean it won't happen but if he can stop it by saying a few nice things about Tevez U really think he won't?

 

[S93]

Giggs got picked because of his carrier not because of the season he has had.
Vidic,Gerrard,Lampard and Crynaldo(strange how this season has been a slump for him but he still toping the scoring charts and one of the best players of the season, shows how dominant he is) all deserve it more then Giggs imo, my pick beeing a coinflip between Vidic and Gerrard.

Crystal if Liverpool wouldnt have gotten a penalty against Man utd would the game have gone 3-1? Would Dossena have scored near the end?
What about if no Pen and No red card? would the game have gone 2-1?
Imo no, Liverpool won that game because of momentium, same think with Man UTd yesterday .

 

[blacksun]

But sindri U are proving our point, Liverpool got a pen and that took them on to win, the point we are making is that theres no way in hell Utd should have got a pen yesterday and because they did, and the foul against modric wasnt given leading to the 2nd goal , Utd were handed the momentum to go on and win.

Noone is saying Utd didnt then turn on the style and outclass Spurs but what most fans (bar Utd) are unhappy about is how a ref can make such a shocking decision that gives Utd that spark.

 

[Crystal Blue]

Yeah Ferguson is the master at that sort of thing but it doesn't change the fact that when Tevez came on the whole place lifted, fans and players alike. He got in amongst it and things started to happen.
It's one of the reasons why the fans love him and don't afford Berbatov the same praise. Even when Tevez is having a bad game he tries his heart out and the fans appreciate that.

 

[blacksun]

Yeah Ferguson is the master at that sort of thing but it doesn't change the fact that when Tevez came on the whole place lifted, fans and players alike. He got in amongst it and things started to happen.
It's one of the reasons why the fans love him and don't afford Berbatov the same praise. Even when Tevez is having a bad game he tries his heart out and the fans appreciate that.

Oh Im not saying that isnt true about Tevez, its the same thing true Liverpool fans like about Kuyt, he may not be technically as good as some but U know he will play his heart out every game for 90+ mins.

But both me and my best freind (who is a Utd fan, lol go figure) agreed yesterday (and there wasnt much) was that Rooneys move out to the left stopped Spurs playing which tactically changed the the way the game was going cos 1st half Evra (who I rate but is having a shocking run of form since he came back from the ban/injury) looked scared to death every time Lennon ran at him and Nani wasnt giving him any protection. In the 2nd half Lennon was forced to chase back more to help cover Rooney and therefore blunted his attacking threat.

 

[Crystal Blue]

Noone is saying Utd didnt then turn on the style and outclass Spurs but what most fans (bar Utd) are unhappy about is how a ref can make such a shocking decision that gives Utd that spark.

I think you will find that some here said Utd were lucky to win yesterday, and used the penalty as the reason.

Those fans you speak of, were they unhappy that Utd didn't get a stonewall penalty against Everton in the FA semi by a shocking referee decision. Because if the point you are making is about injustice and not about something else, I didn't hear them all complaining about the injustice of it.
Personally, I accepted it within 1 minute of the penalty claim being waved away because that is what you have to do, decision made, move on.

 

[Crystal Blue]

If I recall correctly Rooney moved out wide when Tevez came on, a tactical change by Ferguson that worked very well. Like you say it had to be done because of Evra being skinned by Lennon and Nani being ineffective. Tevez replaced Nani and more or less took up Rooney's position, those adjustments turned the game.

 

[blacksun]

I think you will find that some here said Utd were lucky to win yesterday, and used the penalty as the reason.

Those fans you speak of, were they unhappy that Utd didn't get a stonewall penalty against Everton in the FA semi by a shocking referee decision. Because if the point you are making is about injustice and not about something else, I didn't hear them all complaining about the injustice of it.
Personally, I accepted it within 1 minute of the penalty claim being waved away because that is what you have to do, decision made, move on.

Thats semantics, they were lucky cos they got a decision they didnt deserve, then got a 2nd decision go their way leading to the 2nd goal. After that Utd turned on the style to win cos effectively the game was gifted back to them and as U said earlier Spurs players didnt deal well with those decisions going against them. Yes they were unfortunate not to get a pen against Everton but Utd get more decisions go their way than against them, the team thats at the top always do, Liverpool did during their heyday.

When I look at football in the cold light of day I know this is true and accept it but like most fans I am passionate about the game and my team and when things go against them (this falls into that category) then I get annoyed.

The reality is at 2-0 to Spurs, Liverpool are back in the hunt, now they are unlikely to win it. Thats down to Liverpools failure to win against weaker sides at Anfield during Dec/Jan, but to be fair we have had to play half our league games without Torres, had he been fit all season I believe we'd be at least 6 points better off and this would go to the wire. But he wasnt so we have to keep winning pushing Utd all the way hoping they mess up (unlikely but hey gotta hope) and if we come 2nd it gives us the perfect platform to kick on and go for the title next season.

 

[Crystal Blue]

Not sure it was in this thread or another but several weeks ago I made posts trying to cheer up downhearted Liverpool fans when they thought things were looking bleak. I told them not to give up and that things can turn their way and I even wished them luck. But that's just me, I'm a realist at the end of the day and a fair viewer of the game. Then they had their upturn and things were looking very good for them all of a sudden, that's often the way football works. Recently though they have been on a bit of a bad streak what with the Chelsea game and then Arsenal, attitudes kind of altered thereafter but I guess that's how some people deal with things. May the best team win.

 

[blacksun]

I wouldnt even say a downslide against Chelsea & Arse both games we had to win and we pushed forward harder because of that and we conceeded goals we wouldnt usually concede. Both of them are good sides who on their day can beat any team so I wasnt concerned by those results. The only game we played badly in was the 1st leg of CL against Chelsea. But none of this cost us the title, the 0-0's V Stoke, Fulham, West ham and the score draws against Hull, Wigan and City at Anfield are the games that we should have won and didnt resulting in our current position.

Even the defeats to Spurs and Middlesboro, altho frustrating could be accepted if we had won 2 or 3 of the above mentioned draws. I didnt think we were quite ready at the start of the season to actually win the title this year, no team has ever jumped from 3rd/4th to 1st in the Premier league, every team has finished 2nd the season before they won. I hoped they would compete this year and run either Chelsea or Utd close. We have done that. Now I think we will make another couple of additions in the summer (Glenn Johnson, Gareth Barry and Antonio Valencia would suit me) and we will be ready to push on next season.

 

[Crystal Blue]

Well it's not over yet that's the beauty of football, twists and turns all over the place. Utd should close it out now though what with the 3 pts and game in hand but it wouldn't overly shock me if they threw it away at the death, stranger things have happened in football.