All UFC Thread

[favorable flop]

Are you seriously suggesting that McGregor's fights are boring to watch??

No. What I am saying is that people are talking about how much money he has, or how funny he is when trash talking instead of talking about actual fighting. Conor is a talented fighter, but I'm not really into the character he plays when promoting the fights, the borderline racist jokes, talking about opponent's wives, showing late to press conferences, imitating a known killer/drug dealer like it was cool.

 

[FastOne]

No. What I am saying is that people are talking about how much money he has, or how funny he is when trash talking instead of talking about actual fighting. Conor is a talented fighter, but I'm not really into the character he plays when promoting the fights, the borderline racist jokes, talking about opponent's wives, showing late to press conferences, imitating a known killer/drug dealer like it was cool.

None of those things you mentoned matter, only his fights... and they are always great to watch.

 

[OzExorcist]

You seem to care not about how entertaining the fights are, but the whole spectacle pre and post fight.

As others have pointed out above, he consistently puts on great, exciting, entertaining fights - win or lose.

As for the stuff outside the cage, it might not be your cup of tea, and none of it would matter a damn if he didn't deliver in the fights themselves. But the work he does pre-fight and post-fight to hype a match? That stuff does matter. It's entertainment in its own right, and it raises the stakes of the fight in the cage too.

And it affects how the fights play out. What he did to Jose Aldo psychologically in the lead up to that bout pretty clearly had a huge impact on Aldo. I strongly suspect the same is true of Eddie Alvarez in their fight.

 

[favorable flop]

As others have pointed out above, he consistently puts on great, exciting, entertaining fights - win or lose.

As for the stuff outside the cage, it might not be your cup of tea, and none of it would matter a damn if he didn't deliver in the fights themselves. But the work he does pre-fight and post-fight to hype a match? That stuff does matter. It's entertainment in its own right, and it raises the stakes of the fight in the cage too.

And it affects how the fights play out. What he did to Jose Aldo psychologically in the lead up to that bout pretty clearly had a huge impact on Aldo. I strongly suspect the same is true of Eddie Alvarez in their fight.

I guess 99% of MMA fans have a psychology degree. They seem to know exactly what affects fighters. I like when they analyse staredowns. "He is scared, i can see in his eyes."

Aldo and Eddie lost cause Conor took advantage of technical mistakes of both of them.

Saying that his trash talk had a huge impact on Aldo or Eddie is pretty much a guess.

You have the right to be amused by his trashtalk, but for me that shit belongs in WWE.

The guy made two champions look like amateurs and people waste their time talking about some quotes he memorized before the press conference and the money he makes. Is he a fighter or a new kardashian?

 

[OzExorcist]

*shrugs*

Aldo fought reckless and ran straight onto a counter, which is the opposite of what he normally does. Alvarez went as far as to say McGregor got him to forget his game plan.

Point wasn't just that he took advantage of their technical mistakes. It's that he got them to make mistakes they wouldn't have made against other fighters.

 

[WVHillbilly]

Someone explain that Weidman decision to me. I mean if there is no replay allowed and the ref calls an illegal knee, even if he's WRONG, it's an illegal knee. No matter that looking at replay we all know the call was wrong, it's still the call that was made. Give Weidman his 5 and take the point from Mousasi. It's the ONLY correct call there. Big John walking out and saying that they had looked at it and it was legal ****ed that fight up! Bad call all around.

 

[andyt5303]

Just an unfortunate ending to a hugely important fight. When they figured out they were LEGAL knees I think they would have immediately put them back in a clinch and carried on. Thing is I think Weidman was legitimately hurt (sounded groggy talking to rogan) so it would have been irresponsible to put him back in there from a doctors POV. Plus I think they had 2 doctors in there so it wasn't a decision made lightly.

I think a lot of us along with Dominick Cruz thought that second knee was illegal until we saw the slow motion replay from the 3rd angle, I don't think showing the replay and informing a referee of a wrong decision is a good idea because it just causes more confusion. At one point Miragliotta was telling Weidman 'I'm being told those knees were legal' and then telling him 'you have 3 minutes left'. Like I said I think he would have put them back together pretty soon after realising if the doctors hadn't come in and rightly stopped it.

The other thing is the actual ruling of a downed fighter, imo they should have 1 knee down at least to be classed as a 'downed fighter' otherwise you get guys trying to manipulate the rules - Weidman wasn't downed, he looked kinda gassed to me and he was looking for a break. I heard Mighty Mouse talking afterwards how he tried doing the same thing in his fight against Dodson and he got penalized for it so Weidman telling everyone he was putting his hands down so he couldn't get kneed wasn't doing him any favours.

Just think how much more smoothly things would have gone if a) Weidman wasn't hurt and b) Miragliotta wasn't informed of the wrong call... Weidman would've taken a few minutes breather, Miragliotta would have incorrectly warned Mousasi for illegal knees and they would have continued and we wouldn't be talking about it. A series of unfortunate events I guess you could say.

 

[WVHillbilly]

Just an unfortunate ending to a hugely important fight. When they figured out they were LEGAL knees I think they would have immediately put them back in a clinch and carried on. Thing is I think Weidman was legitimately hurt (sounded groggy talking to rogan) so it would have been irresponsible to put him back in there from a doctors POV. Plus I think they had 2 doctors in there so it wasn't a decision made lightly.

I think a lot of us along with Dominick Cruz thought that second knee was illegal until we saw the slow motion replay from the 3rd angle, I don't think showing the replay and informing a referee of a wrong decision is a good idea because it just causes more confusion. At one point Miragliotta was telling Weidman 'I'm being told those knees were legal' and then telling him 'you have 3 minutes left'. Like I said I think he would have put them back together pretty soon after realising if the doctors hadn't come in and rightly stopped it.

The other thing is the actual ruling of a downed fighter, imo they should have 1 knee down at least to be classed as a 'downed fighter' otherwise you get guys trying to manipulate the rules - Weidman wasn't downed, he looked kinda gassed to me and he was looking for a break. I heard Mighty Mouse talking afterwards how he tried doing the same thing in his fight against Dodson and he got penalized for it so Weidman telling everyone he was putting his hands down so he couldn't get kneed wasn't doing him any favours.

Just think how much more smoothly things would have gone if a) Weidman wasn't hurt and b) Miragliotta wasn't informed of the wrong call... Weidman would've taken a few minutes breather, Miragliotta would have incorrectly warned Mousasi for illegal knees and they would have continued and we wouldn't be talking about it. A series of unfortunate events I guess you could say.

I can almost guarantee that fight goes down as a no-contest on appeal. Just a terrible series of decisions there by the UFC refs and officials.

 

[srqgrinder]

I doubt they turn it around. They hardly ever if ever(minus failed drug tests) turn around a decision. With that said, I agree it should be turned into a no contest and run it back. Not impressed with weidman at the moment. Was talks of him fighting Jon Jones at one point yet he has been finished in his last 3 fights at MW. Maybe I'm more critical on him because I've lost money his last 3 fights lol

 

[OzExorcist]

When they figured out they were LEGAL knees I think they would have immediately put them back in a clinch and carried on.

While that might seem sensible, Hillbilly is right: if the ref called it an illegal knee then, right or wrong, it gets treated as an illegal knee. Give Weidman the time, either take a point or give a warning depending on how harsh you think Mousassi's punishment deserves to be, and then move on. And probably call in the doctors to make an assessment if it looks like Weidman can't go on.

AFAIK there's no facility in MMA at this time for someone outside the cage to overrule the in-cage referee, using instant replay or whatever else they may have access to. It's not like the NFL where there's an established system for them to stop between plays and go under the hood to review.

So it's all well and good that they "figured out" that the knees were legal - if there's no mechanism for review or instant replay then right or wrong the referee's call in the cage has to stand. Overturn the result on appeal to the commission after the fight if it was particularly egregious.

 

[WVHillbilly]

While that might seem sensible, Hillbilly is right: if the ref called it an illegal knee then, right or wrong, it gets treated as an illegal knee. Give Weidman the time, either take a point or give a warning depending on how harsh you think Mousassi's punishment deserves to be, and then move on. And probably call in the doctors to make an assessment if it looks like Weidman can't go on.

AFAIK there's no facility in MMA at this time for someone outside the cage to overrule the in-cage referee, using instant replay or whatever else they may have access to. It's not like the NFL where there's an established system for them to stop between plays and go under the hood to review.

So it's all well and good that they "figured out" that the knees were legal - if there's no mechanism for review or instant replay then right or wrong the referee's call in the cage has to stand. Overturn the result on appeal to the commission after the fight if it was particularly egregious.

I'd even go so far as to say that even if Weidman couldn't continue after 5 minutes either because he said he couldn't or a doctor's decision the fight should have been ruled a no-contest right then or even a Weidman win by disqualification! It would have also been a miscarriage of justice but at least it would have made sense based on the refs initial ruling.

 

[Sil3ntness]

That Anthony Johnson fight with DC was bizarre. Was pretty disappointing seeing AJ being so weak on the ground.

 

[WVHillbilly]

That Anthony Johnson fight with DC was bizarre. Was pretty disappointing seeing AJ being so weak on the ground.

I'd say he retired in his head before that fight even started. Trying to wrestle DC was bizarre and I think Ken Shamrock put up a better defense against Kimbo's "choke" than Johnson did against DC last night.

 

[OzExorcist]

I'd even go so far as to say that even if Weidman couldn't continue after 5 minutes either because he said he couldn't or a doctor's decision the fight should have been ruled a no-contest right then or even a Weidman win by disqualification! It would have also been a miscarriage of justice but at least it would have made sense based on the refs initial ruling.

Yep, 100% - I'd expect a no-contest if that happened.

And you're right, it'd be a huge mistake given the knees turned out to be legal. But it takes a pretty egregious referee error (like the Brazilian ref a while back that called a submission loss for a guy who definitely didn't tap).

The idea of instant replay is an interesting one, though I really have no idea how they'd get it to work in practice. I guess they'd treat it like a groin shot or a medical check, referee calls time and then goes to the video. But that only works if it's something the in-cage referee KNOWS they're unsure about and wants to check it. But if it's something the in-cage referee missed altogether then... what, does someone outside the cage have power to call time?

 

[WVHillbilly]

Yep, 100% - I'd expect a no-contest if that happened.

And you're right, it'd be a huge mistake given the knees turned out to be legal. But it takes a pretty egregious referee error (like the Brazilian ref a while back that called a submission loss for a guy who definitely didn't tap).

The idea of instant replay is an interesting one, though I really have no idea how they'd get it to work in practice. I guess they'd treat it like a groin shot or a medical check, referee calls time and then goes to the video. But that only works if it's something the in-cage referee KNOWS they're unsure about and wants to check it. But if it's something the in-cage referee missed altogether then... what, does someone outside the cage have power to call time?

Yeah, I would expect a no-contest call as well but depending on what the ref actually thought happened he could disqualify (think Jon Jones' only loss and clearly illegal elbows).

As for replay I could only see it being used to determine if a point should be deducted. Like if the UFC ever goes to automatic deductions for groin strikes or eye-pokes or kicking a downed opponent, you could have someone take a look to see if the foul actually occurred or if it was just a close call. Outside of that I can't really see a use.

 

[underdog140]

It was a crazy situation.

Once it was ruled an illegal knee ... It should have stayed that way. Most us watching weren't sure until we seen the replay 2-3 times. It is hard to fault the ref in the heat of the moment. I understand how it might of looked like an illegal knee to him.



Continuing on with the knee as if it was illegal would have been the best call to make. Give the 5 minutes and deduct no points because because of the new information you gained after the fact ( knee was legal ) . Which it looked like the ref was going to do but the Doctors stopped the fight.

The ref made a bad call and was in the process of fixing it using the best option he had (imo) but the doctors stepped in and stopped the fight.

 

[WVHillbilly]

It was a crazy situation.

Once it was ruled an illegal knee ... It should have stayed that way. Most us watching weren't sure until we seen the replay 2-3 times. It is hard to fault the ref in the heat of the moment. I understand how it might of looked like an illegal knee to him.



Continuing on with the knee as if it was illegal would have been the best call to make. Give the 5 minutes and deduct no points because because of the new information you gained after the fact ( knee was legal ) . Which it looked like the ref was going to do but the Doctors stopped the fight.

The ref made a bad call and was in the process of fixing it using the best option he had (imo) but the doctors stepped in and stopped the fight.

Yeah, I don't blame the ref for making the call in the 1st place it was damn close. I just don't see how they can use the information gained from a replay to make the call. If the doc made them stop it, it should have been a no-contest and I will be surprised if it's not ruled a no-contest on appeal.

Now the question becomes does Mousasi stick around the UFC for a rematch or run off to Bellator for more $$ and a championship?

 

[underdog140]

From Dana's interviews it doesn't seem like he is willing to over pay to keep Mousasi around.

Those appeals hardly ever amount to anything. It is likely Mousasi was on his way to a finish anyways. It is highly likely we are looking at what essentially is the same end result but gained in an unfair way. Weidman had a good 2-3 minutes of recovery time before the doctors assessed he wasn't fit to continue. So we are left with a doctor stoppage instead of a ref stoppage.

 

[WVHillbilly]

From Dana's interviews it doesn't seem like he is willing to over pay to keep Mousasi around.

I don't really blame him either. I mean he's a good fighter but he's not particularly thrilling most of the time and he's not the best as selling a fight. I'd like to see him stay because I think the better matchups for him are in the UFC but I wouldn't break the bank for him.

 

[OzExorcist]

I don't really blame him either. I mean he's a good fighter but he's not particularly thrilling most of the time and he's not the best as selling a fight. I'd like to see him stay because I think the better matchups for him are in the UFC but I wouldn't break the bank for him.

Yeah, this. He's very good at fighting, but he's deathly boring and he's never been established as a major draw.

FS1 events he's headlined have done OK-not-amazing ratings, and you could argue that his best ones (against Jacare and Machida) got a pretty big assist from a more-famous opponent. The ones where he was pretty clearly the "A-side" (Munoz, Uriah Hall) don't seem to have fared as well.

Now that obv sucks for him because like I said, he's clearly very good at this fighting thing. But his most recent disclosed payout (from UFC 200 last year) it looks like he was on $75k show + $35k win bonus.

That's more than double what TJ Dillashaw made in a winning performance that night... and I dunno about everyone else, but I'd watch a Dillashaw fight over a Mousasi one 10 times out of 10. So yeah it'd be a shame to see him go, but at the same time I can see how the UFC wouldn't want to break the bank just to keep him. Especially in a middleweight division that's as stacked as it is right now.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Now the question becomes does Mousasi stick around the UFC for a rematch or run off to Bellator for more $$ and a championship?

I really hope he sticks around. I enjoy watching his fights & think he's excellent! Personally I'd always want to see a large pool of the top fighters duking it out in a division. As far as what sells fights... who promotes themselves better, etc. etc.,... I could care less. Of course it's a business but I'd hate to see it end up like professional boxing.

 

[WVHillbilly]

I really hope he sticks around. I enjoy watching his fights & think he's excellent! Personally I'd always want to see a large pool of the top fighters duking it out in a division. As far as what sells fights... who promotes themselves better, etc. etc.,... I could care less. Of course it's a business but I'd hate to see it end up like professional boxing.

I agree with hoping he stays, but I just have a feeling that Bellator + sponsorship $$s are going to be greater than what the UFC will offer him.

Who knows the ending of the Weidman fight might make a rematch compelling enough to force the UFC to come up enough to keep him around?

 

[andyt5303]

I think the same might sadly happen to Jacare too. Then suddenly with Jacare and Mousasi heading to Bellator the super stacked middleweight division is suddenly not so stacked at all... especially with GSP most likely not staying at middleweight and Bisping only having a couple more fights. Also Weidman on a losing streak etc...

However I think in the long term it's good to have these fighters going to other organisations. I love the idea of Bellator being at an equal level to UFC one day - that's obviously a long way off but we're heading down that road. It would be great for the sport.

 

[underdog140]

http://www.mmafighting.com/2017/4/1...or-gegard-mousasi-vs-chris-weidman-at-ufc-210

Looks like the decision isn't getting over turned.

NYSAC:

“Mr. Weidman was determined to be unable to continue the match due to legal blows received, resulting in a TKO,” the NYSAC said in a statement. “In New York State, it has been held that the Commission may review video evidence in order to meet its obligation to render correct determinations and act in the best interest of the sport.

“After the referee initially ruled the strikes from Mr. Mousasi illegal, he consulted with the alternate referee during the physician assessment of Mr. Weidman and determined that the knee strikes by Mousasi were not illegal. During the examination of Mr. Weidman by Commission medical staff, it was determined he was medically unfit to continue and the referee ruled a TKO victory in favor of Mr. Mousasi.”

 

[Blackout09]

Bummer. Weidman should get a rematch.