All UFC Thread

[underdog140]

OK that's... interesting I guess. Why makes you say it'll become the most popular division? If anything I'd expect the opposite: I think it'll be the least active division by far in the company, and they might even abandon it after a few years.

I suspect some of the more popular girls from 135 are going to move up. I also think Cyborg is about to become more popular ( after she wins the belt and stars defending ). The chance that Ronda eventually goes to that division. Plus the unseen talent that will be entering that division in the up coming years.

And Rousey doesn't need an excuse not to fight Cyborg - Rousey is the draw there. She has the power, she doesn't have to fight anyone she doesn't want to. I don't think there's many people (your good self excluded, obv) even pushing for that fight any more. It was only really a thing when Ronda was short on other options, and when there was a real question over who'd win.

I agree that she doesn't have to fight anyone and neither does anyone else. But she talked tons of shit on Cyborg and uses the excuse of I fight at 135lbs as excuse not to fight Cyborg. (If you like we can use the word Reason instead of excuse) So if she moves up .. her previous reason is no longer valid.

You are right .. Not as many are asking for the fight anymore. If Ronda regains the belt and defends or revenges her loss I suspect the talk will pick back up again. I see this fight similar to the GSP vs Anderson. Fans are just sick of speculating about it because it likely won't happen. But they sure as hell will tune in if it does.

Plus all that aside, I don't even think Rousey-Cyborg would have that much sporting merit in this scenario. If (big if) Rousey and Holm both win the respective titles then Rousey absolutely WOULD have a good reason not to fight Cyborg: Holm would be the champion, and having Rousey fight Cyborg at 145 when she could be fighting Holm at 145 for the title would be patently stupid. You don't pass up the opportunity for a champion-v-champion match.

Sure that fight would make lots more sense and money at that point. But once that fight happens .... Cyborg will be next in line for that 145lb title fight. If Ronda moves up the fight becomes unavoidable. Lets not forget Ronda has fought at 145lbs before.

 

[OzExorcist]

The thing is though there are no popular girls at 135 other than Rousey - Miesha Tate has retired and nobody else (not even Holly Holm) moves the needle there. Plus I don't necessarily know if putting a belt on Cyborg really makes her more popular: everyone and their dog already knows she's the best WMMA fighter at 145 on the planet, will more of them really watch just because she has a belt?

I strongly suspect 115 will remain the most popular women's division in the UFC (even if Ronda remains the most popular individual fighter until she retires). That division has Joanna and PVZ, and the fights there tend to be much more fun.

As for Rousey-Cyborg there's a lot of "ifs" to it but yeah, if Rousey wins the 135 belt back, then wins the 145 belt, then it really just becomes a question of how many more fights Rousey wants. Say she just wants one more after that - you couldn't fault her for defending the 135 belt against someone. If she still wants to fight again after that, then it becomes incredibly difficult to deny Cyborg a shot. But only then I'd say: before that she can easily dodge her.

If she won it, I'd expect Rousey to either drop the 145 title or retire before she had to fight Cyborg, given what a no-win situation it is for her.

I take your point by the way, it's pretty clear that Rousey wants no part of a fight with Cyborg. Nor does any other sensible human being who's got a better alternative available to them. And I think that's the thing: for ages now the only people that have fought Cyborg have been ones who've taken the fight because they'll make a bit more money than they normally would. They've generally got no reputation or record to protect so aside from the hideous beating, they've got nothing to lose. Rousey (and to a similar extent fighters like Holm too) definitely don't fall into that category.

 

[underdog140]

The thing is though there are no popular girls at 135 other than Rousey - Miesha Tate has retired and nobody else (not even Holly Holm) moves the needle there. Plus I don't necessarily know if putting a belt on Cyborg really makes her more popular: everyone and their dog already knows she's the best WMMA fighter at 145 on the planet, will more of them really watch just because she has a belt?

No popular ones in WMMA when compared to MMA but there are standouts and I would consider Holm one of them. I do wonder if this new division would peak any interest in Tate.

As for everyone already knowing cyborg is the best at 145lb.. I would disagree with that ... The hardcore fan base knows it ... the casuals .. not so much. That UFC belt and hype machine mean allot.

I strongly suspect 115 will remain the most popular women's division in the UFC (even if Ronda remains the most popular individual fighter until she retires). That division has Joanna and PVZ, and the fights there tend to be much more fun.

I don't see 115 as the most popular. 135lb is imo. Any division with Ronda in it will be the most popular. That might change if she loses her next fight. Her popularity is already decreasing.

As for Rousey-Cyborg there's a lot of "ifs" to it but yeah, if Rousey wins the 135 belt back, then wins the 145 belt, then it really just becomes a question of how many more fights Rousey wants. Say she just wants one more after that - you couldn't fault her for defending the 135 belt against someone. If she still wants to fight again after that, then it becomes incredibly difficult to deny Cyborg a shot. But only then I'd say: before that she can easily dodge her.

If she won it, I'd expect Rousey to either drop the 145 title or retire before she had to fight Cyborg, given what a no-win situation it is for her.

Sure her going the route of retiring is another option.

I take your point by the way, it's pretty clear that Rousey wants no part of a fight with Cyborg. Nor does any other sensible human being who's got a better alternative available to them. And I think that's the thing: for ages now the only people that have fought Cyborg have been ones who've taken the fight because they'll make a bit more money than they normally would. They've generally got no reputation or record to protect so aside from the hideous beating, they've got nothing to lose. Rousey (and to a similar extent fighters like Holm too) definitely don't fall into that category.

I honestly believe there was a point when Ronda ( with out doubt ) thought she could beat Cyborg and she had every intention to fight her at some point in their careers. I believe that time has passed and while I think she believes she still could win, she also knows she could be in for a beat down.

 

[Blackout09]

So Much for the PVZ hype. I think she should have taken that movie role instead.

 

[OzExorcist]

When you think about it though, what has the "hype" about VanZant actually been that she's failed to live up to?

I don't think the UFC has ever pretended that she's some kind of world-beating talent or anything - she's just a mid-tier fighter with a ton of heart who tends to put on fun fights, win or lose. And, of course, she's young, attractive and female.

This fight might not have been as fun as, say, the crazy knockout of Bec Rawlings or the wild brawl with Felice Herrig but I'd say she was pretty true to form.

I'd say they have more of a problem with Sage Northcutt - he was promoted much more heavily on his skills, particularly his championship karate background. But it's becoming increasingly apparent that he just can't hang at the UFC level in anything other than cupcake matchups.

 

[underdog140]

Sage Northcutt is going back down to LW.

It wouldn't surprise me any if UFC offer him CM PUNK to get him in a high profile fight to get some eyes on him and some of his hype back.

 

[OzExorcist]

LOL - yeah if he somehow lost to CM Punk then I think you could officially write him off. Though that would probably mean fighting at 170 again.

I think the biggest thing they could do for Sage is get him training at a proper camp. I know he's spent some time at Tristar but if he made the move full time to one of the elite camps he'd probably see a huge improvement. I think we're seeing the limits of where being coached by his dad can take him.

Incidentally I think the same is probably true of PVZ too: Alpha Male is a better camp than "Sage's dad", so she's got a higher floor, but at the same time I think we've seen the ceiling that Alpha Male fighters tend to hit too. Can you imagine the improvements she could make if she went somewhere like Kings MMA instead?

 

[andyt5303]

Did any of you guys see the doctumentary 'fight mom' on Michelle Waterson that was released last weekend yet?

I watched it before the fights and couldn't be happier to see her win on Saturday! She gained a bunch of new fans this weekend me included!

Well worth a watch if you're yet to see it, watch it at www.uninterrupted.com

 

[JulioJones]

This is a huge thread. I'll just say I love te UFC and betting on it seems safer than football

 

[JulioJones]

I think I'm about to fall over laughing here

Anthony Pettis, 1-3 in his last four fights, who was pretty clearly just a stay-busy fight for Max Holloway, is fighting for a title. Albeit an interim title. But still. Add it to the list!

It's sad, because Showtime is one of the more exciting fighters in the UFC, and seemed to be at the top of his game when he beat Hendo for the lightweight title.

 

[OzExorcist]

Yeah I think beating Bendo for the 155 title might have been the peak Pettis moment - since then it really seems like his game has been figured out and his opponents have a pretty clear blueprint of what they need to do to beat him.

 

[Blackout09]

Im from Chicago, And i went to Milwaukee for UFC when he won the title. I thought he was going to hold that title for a long time. Boooy Was I wrong. LOL

 

[OzExorcist]

Yeah 155 is a shark tank. I thought RDA was the guy who was well rounded enough and had the right style to hang onto the belt for a while there, but he was obviously not the guy either.

And FWIW I strongly suspect Conor isn't either...

 

[OzExorcist]

So... Jose Aldo did a long interview with Ariel Helwani that's worth a read: http://www.mmafighting.com/2016/12/...holloway-fight-falling-through-clown-mcgregor

I found this bit particularly interesting: he thinks his next fight is going to be in March for the interim lightweight belt, and that one person has already turned down that fight:

So, in the end, do you think you will fight Max Holloway in Brooklyn on Feb. 11?
No, the Brooklyn fight is not happening. I now expect and believe I will be fighting in early March. Either March 3 or March 4, I can't remember. I believe they will soon announce an interim lightweight title fight with me. They've been trying to find me an opponent, and -- surprise, surprise -- at least one has already turned down the fight against me. I'm waiting to see who they will find.

Wow. I didn't expect that. Who turned it down?
You gotta ask the UFC that. They've asked me not to say anything. I won’t say who it is because it’s a surprise. A guy we never thought would turn it down turned it down, because his father didn’t think it was good. I'm tired of people turning down fights. I want to put some pressure so they'll take the fight.​

"His father didn't think it was good", if true, would pretty much confirm it was Khabib, right? I don't think Tony Ferguson or Nate Diaz or any of the other 155 contenders at the moment are involving their dads that much in their fight decisions...

UPDATE: Khabib certainly seems to think he's the one Aldo was talking about, and he basically says that he doesn't want to fight Aldo because that fight would be too easy and he'd prefer a tougher test against Tony Ferguson - he thinks fighting Aldo would be seen as "ducking" Ferguson. That's cooooooooooooooold https://www.instagram.com/p/BOSgFXtDA0Z/

 

[underdog140]

UFC doesn't seem keen on fixing these divisions. A LW interim title ... whats the point ? Allowing another champion to hold two belts at the same time ( Aldo isn't dropping his FW belt to be Interim LW champion ) ? Almost like they are purposely messing up these divisions.

The other thing that comes to mind with the above... Looks like the UFC wants to force the hand of Conor and pressure him into taking a rematch with Aldo. Conor could not avoid a rematch with Aldo upon his return IF Aldo became the interim LW champion along with being the FW Champion.

 

[SMD Jabroni]

BREAKING NEWS!
in shocking news no one could have seen coming, half man cyborg pissed dirty.
LOL
gtfo

 

[OzExorcist]

The other thing that comes to mind with the above... Looks like the UFC wants to force the hand of Conor and pressure him into taking a rematch with Aldo. Conor could not avoid a rematch with Aldo upon his return IF Aldo became the interim LW champion along with being the FW Champion.

LOL I reckon Conor could find a way out of that fight if he wanted to.

It's all pure speculation though - Khabib has made it pretty clear he doesn't want the fight, so the only way it's ever likely to happen is if the set Aldo v Ferguson or something.

BREAKING NEWS!
in shocking news no one could have seen coming, half man cyborg pissed dirty.
LOL
gtfo

And in more shocking news no one could have seen coming, someone makes a stupid bigoted comment in relation to this story...

FWIW it was a test from earlier this month, after her most recent fight. She's tested clean for her fights in the organisation (14 times since joining the UFC - which is the same as, say, Daniel Cormier has been tested in total).

I know she's got a history of failing for steroids. In this case she's claiming it's something related to her medical treatment after the weight cut to 140: http://www.usada.org/testing/results/athlete-test-history/

I suppose we'll see what comes of it, but if I had to guess I'd say it's more likely she didn't get some part of her treatment cleared than she's on steriods again. Which is stupid, she should get everything cleared before she takes it (Might Mouse, for example, has said he calls up USADA to check before he takes anything, even a headache tablet). But everyone was super-willing to give BJ Penn a pass for failing a test after doing something blatantly stupid, so it'll be interesting to see how this gets handled if that is the case.

 

[SMD Jabroni]

Once a cheater...

 

[OzExorcist]

Once a cheater...

*shrugs*

Be that as it may, the "half man" comment was still stupid and bigoted.

 

[underdog140]

FWIW it was a test from earlier this month, after her most recent fight. She's tested clean for her fights in the organisation (14 times since joining the UFC - which is the same as, say, Daniel Cormier has been tested in total).

I know she's got a history of failing for steroids. In this case she's claiming it's something related to her medical treatment after the weight cut to 140: http://www.usada.org/testing/results/athlete-test-history/

I suppose we'll see what comes of it, but if I had to guess I'd say it's more likely she didn't get some part of her treatment cleared than she's on steriods again. Which is stupid, she should get everything cleared before she takes it (Might Mouse, for example, has said he calls up USADA to check before he takes anything, even a headache tablet). But everyone was super-willing to give BJ Penn a pass for failing a test after doing something blatantly stupid, so it'll be interesting to see how this gets handled if that is the case.

Yeah, she is claiming it was because of her weight cut. It was an out of competition test done on Dec. 5th. Her last fight was September 24.

The problem I see is that it is documented she was doing some heavy lifting while making those claims. A person that is drained and recovering from a weight cut wouldn't or at least shouldn't be lifting 300lbs like she was.
I Read somewhere that most her other test were done a month prior to fighting and this was her first random ( maby not the best word to use ) test. I am not sure how true that is.

I also heard it was a diuretic which helps weight cutting and can mask other PED. I am no expert but in defense I have read it also could be used to help someone that hydrated too quickly which Cyborg would have done after her cut. So a doctor may have very well described them to her.

In short I don't think we get a clear answer as to if she is on something or not. Her past combined with this failed test will convince a few more that she is. The ones that already thought she was will have more fuel for there claims and a few more skeptics on the fence about the issue will be added regardless of a legit reason or not.

What test did B.J. Penn fail ? I know he admitted to be giving an IV by his doctor weeks ( Months ? ) leading up to one of his returns fight that got canceled because of it.

Cyborg,

“For my fans who are disappointed in the news, I am sorry.

You can feel confident that the substance they are inquiring about is not for performance enhancing use, and is needed for my specific treatments. (International Medical Codes CID E 87.6, CID 87.8, CID E 44.0, CID N 83.2, CID 115.9, CID Z73.3 CID E 06.3) Sept. 24. Feel confident that I am a clean athlete.”

 

[SMD Jabroni]

I think the half man comment was valid.
She probably has more testosterone running through her body than I do.

Fire her dumbass and be done with it, tired of all the excuses for all these people popping dirty left and right after every ppv.

 

[OzExorcist]

I also heard it was a diuretic which helps weight cutting and can mask other PED. I am no expert but in defense I have read it also could be used to help someone that hydrated too quickly which Cyborg would have done after her cut. So a doctor may have very well described them to her.

Here's a more detailed analysis: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2016/12/...etic-ped-steroids-spironolactone-drospirenone

Long story short it's definitely a banned substance, and it sounds like her doctor is an idiot for not at least applying for a TUE before giving it to her.

The article says it certainly could be used to treat some of the symptoms of a bad weight cut (he also gets in a dig a Cyborg ditching her nutritionist - George Lockhart, who I believe the author of the article works with). It also says though that taking it is inconsistent with some of the other symptoms she reported - in particular it would be dangerous for her to take it if she was having kidney problems after the weight cut.

So... yeah, read into that what you will. It certainly sounds like she trusted the wrong person when it comes to her doctor.

What test did B.J. Penn fail ? I know he admitted to be giving an IV by his doctor weeks ( Months ? ) leading up to one of his returns fight that got canceled because of it.

Yeah the IV thing - I can't remember if he actually failed a test or if he just admitted to having one but it's the same thing in USADA's eyes (same as Lyoto Machida - IIRC he didn't fail a test, he self-disclosed something he thought was fine but actually wasn't). Whichever it was, they suspended him for six months.

I think the half man comment was valid.
She probably has more testosterone running through her body than I do.

Fire her dumbass and be done with it, tired of all the excuses for all these people popping dirty left and right after every ppv.

The comment was, and still is, stupid and bigoted. Fact.

As for firing her... I dunno, but it certainly hasn't been the UFC's practice in the past when it comes to fighters with name recognition who fail tests. If they can still make the company some money after they come back, they generally keep their jobs.

Plus I'm assuming you also think the company should fire Jon Jones, BJ Penn, Yoel Romero, Lyoto Machida, Nate Diaz and all the other fighters who've failed tests and been sanctioned just this year, right? http://www.usada.org/testing/results/sanctions/

 

[underdog140]

I don't consider using an IV shortly after it was banned and fessing up to it as the same as failing a test or using some form of PED. While it is on the fighters to know the rules .. B.J. Penn claimed he thought they were ok to use out of competition and his doctor is the one who recommended he take one. I find it hard to believe he was using the IV to get any sort of edge considering he was against using one when he was with Dolce and they were legal. B.J. would ( did ? ) have passed his test.

I doubt they fire Cyborg but there is a good chance she is getting a decent size punishment out of this considering her past. In that time Ronda will have plenty of time to go for the 145lbs strap and ( rightfully so if she chooses to ) avoid Cyborg upon her return.

 

[we will rock you]

bets for ufc 207 rousey to win,cruz to retain the belt,borg ml,tim means ml

 

[SMD Jabroni]

i just think pissing dirty, for anyone, should be punished more.
ufc for the most part is pretty much okay with it.

also i have no idea to bet on ronda or not.
she SHOULD go in there and win but im not sure where her head is at.
after the loss and the time off and talking about retiring and stuff already.