FastOne
Legend
Loyaler
It's already in the UFC 205 Schedule. :icon_thum
I'm really excited about that 115 lb title fight!
Yeah, that would have been a great fight for sure.
I'm really excited about that 115 lb title fight!
U
underdog140
Legend
Silver Level
http://www.news.com.au/sport/boxing...e/news-story/fb24c041b1226881b3f949a82328a876
I wonder if he will stick to this once that Million(s) dollar pay day is dangled in his face ? It would be nice to see and I think it would gain him some fans. Fighting and beating Conor would gain him more though. Interesting to see how this all plays out.
I wonder if he will stick to this once that Million(s) dollar pay day is dangled in his face ? It would be nice to see and I think it would gain him some fans. Fighting and beating Conor would gain him more though. Interesting to see how this all plays out.
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
The thing is though, if it's a step in the wrong direction to focus on your stars rather than the umbrella UFC brand, then it's a wrong path that the organisation started down before they even signed McGregor.
I know I keep coming back to Patick Wyman's article, but it just makes this all so clear: ever since the height of GSP and Anderson Silva, the UFC has been all about its stars. No stars, no big sales numbers.
IMO the only way giving Conor whatever fight he wants would hurt the UFC in the long term is if they fail to develop new stars in the background while they're sitting back and counting all the McGregor Bucks. It's something they've screwed up before (the down year when GSP and Silva weren't active but McGregor and Rousey hadn't broken huge yet).
I think they'll have an easier time developing the stars of the future now though, since they've just been bought by a massive talent development agency.
If the UFC actually wanted him to fight McGregor, I would be amazed if he had the kind of promotional sway to turn it down. And agree 100%, he'd pick up a lot more fans fighting McGregor than he would by turning him down (a move which would probably only get him love from the hardcore fans, and we already love him).
U
underdog140
Legend
Silver Level
I never said not to focus on stars. That is something completely different then what we were discussing. Which was let Conor fight whoever he wants. They can both focus on stars and not allow them to fight whoever they want.
UFC never had any stars that were bigger than UFC itself. It may seem like it for brief moments due to UFC Marketing. But UFC has and continues to be bigger than any one star. IF Dana/UFC wanted to crush Conor then they would.
Letting one fighter do what ever he wants will prompt others to try the same. This isn't good for the UFC. Eddie Alvarez, and the link posted earlier are a perfect example. IF Dana/UFC allowed Conor to fight on UFC 200 things would be worse then currently are. Which brings me back to an earlier point of pulling him from UFC 200 will pay dividends in the future.
Eddie Alvarez opportunity to defend his belt vs who is most likely the easiest viable option for him to do so against went up in smoke because of his demands. Instead of a win over a popular fighter he will face a much tougher less popular fighter and his chances of losing his belt just increased significantly.
Promotional sway never even crossed my mind. Morals did though. He was vocal about not letting / agreeing with Conor leap frogging everyone in the LW division directly into a title shot. It would be great to see him stick to that and give a big middle finger and simply refuse to fight Conor ( until he gets a win or two at LW ) when/if he becomes champion. The only problem with that is he would also be costing himself a big pay day .. potential new fans and one of the easier option for a title defense.
UFC never had any stars that were bigger than UFC itself. It may seem like it for brief moments due to UFC Marketing. But UFC has and continues to be bigger than any one star. IF Dana/UFC wanted to crush Conor then they would.
Letting one fighter do what ever he wants will prompt others to try the same. This isn't good for the UFC. Eddie Alvarez, and the link posted earlier are a perfect example. IF Dana/UFC allowed Conor to fight on UFC 200 things would be worse then currently are. Which brings me back to an earlier point of pulling him from UFC 200 will pay dividends in the future.
Eddie Alvarez opportunity to defend his belt vs who is most likely the easiest viable option for him to do so against went up in smoke because of his demands. Instead of a win over a popular fighter he will face a much tougher less popular fighter and his chances of losing his belt just increased significantly.
Promotional sway never even crossed my mind. Morals did though. He was vocal about not letting / agreeing with Conor leap frogging everyone in the LW division directly into a title shot. It would be great to see him stick to that and give a big middle finger and simply refuse to fight Conor ( until he gets a win or two at LW ) when/if he becomes champion. The only problem with that is he would also be costing himself a big pay day .. potential new fans and one of the easier option for a title defense.
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OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
That's simply not the case though, at least as far as the PPV business goes. For years and years now (and again, the sales numbers bear this out), the PPVs only do big numbers when there's a big star taking the spotlight. When the UFC is the biggest brand on the card (say, someone like Aldo or Mighty Mouse headlining), they go right back to doing mediocre numbers because the UFC brand on its own doesn't sell that many PPVs.
Where the UFC brand is probably more healthy is on free TV - and that's a big part of the reason why it can't sell PPVs without stars. People don't need to shell out premium money for PPVs just to see "the UFC" because there's a free UFC card on TV just about every weekend.
And they can't "crush" Conor, even if they wanted to. Again, they can't put that genie back in the bottle. And they sure as hell wouldn't want to risk losing him to Bellator or something.
As for Khabib hypothetically refusing to fight Conor that's a lose-lose for him, DUCY? He doesn't get paid, and he looks like a coward for not wanting fight Conor.
Incidentally I don't know if fighting Conor is necessarily a walkover for Khabib. If he gets Conor on the ground then it's obviously not going to go well for Conor. But Khabib leads with his face a LOT in the stand up and that's exactly the kind of thing Conor is an expert at capitalising on.
U
underdog140
Legend
Silver Level
Conor has a chance vs anyone because he has power in his hands. I didn't mean he can't win just that he is the easier fight. I don't see how Khabib will look like a coward not wanting to grant someone a title shot that has 0 fights at LW and 0 defenses at 145lbs. If we were talking about someone who has cleaned out their division and moved up or a heaver champion dropping down then that spin could be put on it. But as it stands I don't think the looking like a coward jab will stick.
Crush may be a harsh word but they can seriously hurt his "brand" and knock him back a few notches. Make him defend his title vs Aldo. Force him to fight Edgar. Set up Nick Diaz vs. Conor like some were asking for. Set up Nate vs Conor 3. Feed him to GSP in a big money fight.
He loses to Nick and GSP outside a hail mary KO. He would be an underdog vs Edgar and a coin flip vs Nate. And once those losses start piling up... the gene is back in the bottle so to speak.
Don't Bite The Hand That Feeds You ....
Stars come and go .... UFC will always be there. Take those same stars you mention and put them on a PPV card that don't have UFC attached to it and watch the PPV buys shrink. Look at Bellators attempt at a PPV ... It had Rampage Jackson and Tito Ortiz on the main event Kongo was apart of the event as well.. King Mo. 100 K PPV sales and some articles suggest it didn't even do that. Put Jackson / Tito / Kongo / plus add a fight hardcore fans want to see like Chandler vs Brooks to the card and add the UFC name brand ... the buys at least triple.
Crush may be a harsh word but they can seriously hurt his "brand" and knock him back a few notches. Make him defend his title vs Aldo. Force him to fight Edgar. Set up Nick Diaz vs. Conor like some were asking for. Set up Nate vs Conor 3. Feed him to GSP in a big money fight.
He loses to Nick and GSP outside a hail mary KO. He would be an underdog vs Edgar and a coin flip vs Nate. And once those losses start piling up... the gene is back in the bottle so to speak.
Don't Bite The Hand That Feeds You ....
Stars come and go .... UFC will always be there. Take those same stars you mention and put them on a PPV card that don't have UFC attached to it and watch the PPV buys shrink. Look at Bellators attempt at a PPV ... It had Rampage Jackson and Tito Ortiz on the main event Kongo was apart of the event as well.. King Mo. 100 K PPV sales and some articles suggest it didn't even do that. Put Jackson / Tito / Kongo / plus add a fight hardcore fans want to see like Chandler vs Brooks to the card and add the UFC name brand ... the buys at least triple.
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Rincewind
Visionary
Silver Level
There was so much fail in that post, but this part is just bewildering.
In what universe would Frankie Edgar be favourite against McGregor? Edgar is a spent force and showed against Aldo that he can't trouble an elite level striker anymore. McGregor finishes Edgar within 2 rounds.
McGregor would open as a massive favourite and rightly so.
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
I've got no idea what the odds would open at in that fight, but I will say one thing: McGregor does not have Aldo's sublime takedown defense.
Frankie looked shot against Aldo because he couldn't get Aldo down. Frankie will probably be able to get McGregor down if he wants to, and that makes it a pretty close fight IMO.
Rincewind
Visionary
Silver Level
Disagree, Aldos succesful avoidance of the takedown were as much to with Edgars decline as his own TDD.
McG showed only reasonably good TDD against Mendes to be fair to him. But it has improved tenfold since. Another short stumpy wrestler like Edgar, who is just sligtly better wreslter than Mendes gets picked apart the same way Mendes did.
If Aldo can keep Edgar at bay with barely there strikes and very basic use of angles, then McGregor makes it a very frustrating encounter for him.
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Gotta disagree. Aldo's limp-leg takedown defense in particular is just beautiful to watch. And he wasn't just keeping Edgar at bay with "barely there strikes and very basic use of angles". His distance management and pivots in that fight were just beautiful to watch, if you know what you're looking for.
I'm not saying this as someone who's sleeping or hating on McGregor's ground game either, I actually think it's pretty underrated. But I would be very surprised if Edgar couldn't take him down.
I'm not saying this as someone who's sleeping or hating on McGregor's ground game either, I actually think it's pretty underrated. But I would be very surprised if Edgar couldn't take him down.
Rincewind
Visionary
Silver Level
As far as techncal footwork is concerned, trust me I know what I'm looking for. My own personal involvement with the sport of MMA stretches no further than BJJ these days but I was quite heavily involved in boxing up to my mid twenties.
What Aldo does well in not giving opponents a chance to shoot, McGregor does exceptionally well. Aldo's defence in the takedown itself is probably better but McGregor is better at evading the attempt in the first place. To my mind thats the best form of TDD, not giving your opponent a chance to even shoot at all. Although I will concede that his reach and the fear of his power is quite often a lot to do with this as well.
And lets be realistic here, as good as Aldo was in their fight, Edgar was so one dimensional, he was making it easy for him to look good. It was indeed a very basic use of angles because thats all it required. He made Edgar look almost lead footed at times.
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underdog140
Legend
Silver Level
Explain my fail instead of just a blanket statement. That is a strong list of guys that have been mentioned in one way or another for potential match-ups for Conor. The likely hood he comes away from all those fights without a couple losses is very very very small.
Styles make fights. Edgar style would be difficult for Conor to overcome. What do you think happens if Conor can't put Edgar away within 2 rounds. Edgar is a cardio machine. Conor isn't. Conor is getting put on his back at will after 2 rounds. I will be surprised if Edgar doesn't put him on his back before then. The odds may very well show slightly in Conor's favor but beting odds are based on bets placed by fans and Conor is in no short supply of fans or hype. Here is hoping you are right and Edgar is a big underdog. It will be a nice payday for me, outside getting KO'd.. Edgar wins.
Edgar is a nightmare match-up for him. If Conor doesn't get the KO .. he doesn't win that fight.
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Rincewind
Visionary
Silver Level
LOL keep dreamin pal.
Maybe if you had a time a machine a bring back Frankie from 3 or 4 years ago he beats McGregor. But 2016 Frankie Edgar gets walloped silly by McGregor.
Nothing to for him to be ashamed of. Its the nature of the sport. Every fighter has a peak and his is well behind him. We saw that by the spanking he got off Aldo.
Maybe if you had a time a machine a bring back Frankie from 3 or 4 years ago he beats McGregor. But 2016 Frankie Edgar gets walloped silly by McGregor.
Nothing to for him to be ashamed of. Its the nature of the sport. Every fighter has a peak and his is well behind him. We saw that by the spanking he got off Aldo.
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underdog140
Legend
Silver Level
McGregor ground game ( POSSIBLY under-rated ) is still sub-par when compared to other Elite fighters. If he doesn't get the KO early he is being taking down once his cardio fails him (and possibly before). Which is about 2 rounds.
If they ever fight we can make a friendly wager on it if you like. Why let the books take my money when you can ?
Edit: And I think you are putting too much stock in Conor KO'ing Aldo in 13 seconds. There have been other fights were a fighter gets KO'd early and the rematch is something else entirely different. Will it be the case with Conor vs Aldo. Time will tell.
If they ever fight we can make a friendly wager on it if you like. Why let the books take my money when you can ?
Edit: And I think you are putting too much stock in Conor KO'ing Aldo in 13 seconds. There have been other fights were a fighter gets KO'd early and the rematch is something else entirely different. Will it be the case with Conor vs Aldo. Time will tell.
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underdog140
Legend
Silver Level
It was a point that came to mind that I didn't want to have to start another post for. So Edited and added to the one I already had.
Edit:
I never watched last nights fights and just found out Roy Nelson push kicked the ref who was Big John. Seems like UFC is losing control. First Werdum and now Roy in a short period of time. I suspect a stern statement from UFC / Dana and some sort of punishment towards Roy Nelson is going to take place.
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andyt5303
Rock Star
Silver Level
https://youtu.be/Wcj64LDGrhc
Watched this documentary based on Cris Cyborg's training/weight cut for the Leslie Smith fight back at UFC 198. Gives a real insight into what these fighters go through (especially Cyborg cutting to 140) and certainly makes you wonder how they don't get paid more. It's almost unbearable to watch towards the end.
Definitely recommend watching.
Watched this documentary based on Cris Cyborg's training/weight cut for the Leslie Smith fight back at UFC 198. Gives a real insight into what these fighters go through (especially Cyborg cutting to 140) and certainly makes you wonder how they don't get paid more. It's almost unbearable to watch towards the end.
Definitely recommend watching.
andyt5303
Rock Star
Silver Level
I don't think he actually kicked him, he did try to and then flipped him off but it wasn't overly aggressive. He was just pissed at how long it took John to stop the fight. He said afterwards that him and Silva are friends and he's got a family to go back to and he doesn't want to do unnecessary damage when he knows the fight is over.
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underdog140
Legend
Silver Level
She had a hard time cutting down this time as well. UFC should make a 145lb division.
It wasn't with any power. Just a push kick but he did kick him. He admits it and explains why below.
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Ouch.
Will be very interesting to see what the UFC does here - there's precedent for cutting fighters who've made contact with a ref, and it kinda feels like they've been looking for an excuse to cut Nelson for ages... but at the same time he's an active heavyweight with at least some name recognition, and they've got precious few of them at the moment. They probably don't want to risk losing him to Bellator.
...which brings us to the other side of this: if it's gotten to the point where even his opponents feel bad hitting him, then Bigfoot Silva shouldn't be getting booked for fights any more. It's just depressing at this point.
Except I suspect he's still on the roster for the same reason I mentioned above: if the UFC let him go then Bellator will almost certainly sign him and put him back to work. Ugly situation.
Will be very interesting to see what the UFC does here - there's precedent for cutting fighters who've made contact with a ref, and it kinda feels like they've been looking for an excuse to cut Nelson for ages... but at the same time he's an active heavyweight with at least some name recognition, and they've got precious few of them at the moment. They probably don't want to risk losing him to Bellator.
...which brings us to the other side of this: if it's gotten to the point where even his opponents feel bad hitting him, then Bigfoot Silva shouldn't be getting booked for fights any more. It's just depressing at this point.
Except I suspect he's still on the roster for the same reason I mentioned above: if the UFC let him go then Bellator will almost certainly sign him and put him back to work. Ugly situation.
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Here's another expert opinion on the UFC's PPV business and how UFC 205 in particular is shaping up: http://www.mmafighting.com/2016/9/2...er-view-has-never-looked-brighter-but-nothing
In particular, the bit about the New York card:
In particular, the bit about the New York card:
Dave Meltzer said:
WVHillbilly
Legend
Silver Level
So, if this is true, that means a Conor fight is worth and additional $40+ million in PPV buys. Doesn't take a genius to see that if Dana/Silvia want to prove they can schedule who they want, when they want for too long IMG is going to rethink keeping them around.
Rincewind
Visionary
Silver Level
Totally. I've been saying it for ages. Dana's pride and stubbornness will be his own undoing.
Right now all he is, is a figurehead that can guide the new owners through the transition period. Once they realise what a liability he is, his days will be numbered.
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underdog140
Legend
Silver Level
Dana will be fine, Conor can't headline every event. All the same logic can be placed on a number of fighters. If G.S.P. headlined the PPV does much better. Ronda , Brock , Jon Jones .. even throwing CM Punk on the card will up the PPV buys.
As I mentioned in another post. All the other top draws aren't fighting for different reasons. It's not just Conor that can be put on the show and it do substantially better. He is just the only option at the moment. I doubt the article mentions that. But IMO it's something that is note worthy on this topic.
Looking at the fights that are listed on the UFC website for UFC 205. ... I don't see the problem with this card. I Think we all just got spoiled by the big events recently. Brock coming back. The drama of Conor being pulled from UFC 200. Nate beating Conor then the rematch. The card isn't even finalized yet and looks darn good if you ask me. I won't be missing this one.
As I mentioned in another post. All the other top draws aren't fighting for different reasons. It's not just Conor that can be put on the show and it do substantially better. He is just the only option at the moment. I doubt the article mentions that. But IMO it's something that is note worthy on this topic.
Looking at the fights that are listed on the UFC website for UFC 205. ... I don't see the problem with this card. I Think we all just got spoiled by the big events recently. Brock coming back. The drama of Conor being pulled from UFC 200. Nate beating Conor then the rematch. The card isn't even finalized yet and looks darn good if you ask me. I won't be missing this one.
Rincewind
Visionary
Silver Level
I wont be missing it either. For a real MMA fan it is a great card but lets be realistic here. In terms of what it has to offer the casual fan and what it will generate in terms of PPV buys, its a dead duck right now.
I find it hard to imagine this doing more than 700k PPV's unless they add someone to the card that can bring in some interest. Even with Woodley/Thompson added to the card it will still be pretty underwhelming for what should be one of the top 5 biggest cards EVER for the UFC.
Sure there are plenty fighters that could add value to the card, but NONE right now on the scale that McGregor could. Its a bitter pill for some to swallow but its true.
I find it hard to imagine this doing more than 700k PPV's unless they add someone to the card that can bring in some interest. Even with Woodley/Thompson added to the card it will still be pretty underwhelming for what should be one of the top 5 biggest cards EVER for the UFC.
Sure there are plenty fighters that could add value to the card, but NONE right now on the scale that McGregor could. Its a bitter pill for some to swallow but its true.