All UFC Thread

[FastOne]

Gotta feel bad for bad for DP last night. He's one of the good guys.

Massive LOL @ Johnson though, thinking he should be getting paid like McGregor and Diaz.

Johnson looked in shape for real, never saw him so cut before, not even close. He was really fast compared to Dustin. That fight definitely did not go the way I thought it would.

 

[OzExorcist]

Interesting article on just how important McGregor is to the UFC's business model: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2663848-conor-mcgregor-is-the-biggest-draw-in-ufc-history

I know we discussed a little while back whether he was really a bigger star / bigger draw than GSP or Lesnar. Short version: he's definitely bigger. And the UFC's overall PPV sales would drop right back to the ugly lows of 2014 without him.

 

[FastOne]

At this point I don't really care who McGregor fights next - his fights have kind of transcended belts and weight classes at this stage. So why not fight Alvarez?

I can absolutely see the reluctance to fight Aldo again, purely on the basis that it'd be impossible to improve on his performance in the previous fight. And Aldo doesn't contribute anything promotionally, it'd be just another McGregor fight.

If I were the UFC, I'd have him fight Alvarez next for the promotional angle of him holding two belts simultaneously. Then work out what to do with McGregor's featherweight belt (I assume he's more likely to vacate it than fight there again)

I'd like to see Connor defend his 145lb title at least once before fighting at 155lb, or just lose the title. He fought twice in a row at 170lb. Should not be allowed to hold that title for so long without defending it, IMO.

 

[OzExorcist]

Sure, from a purely sporting perspective I suppose that's a valid way of looking at it.

But as the article above outlines, McGregor basically is the UFC's business model right now and he can pretty much do whatever he likes

 

[underdog140]

Any decent PPV draw is important to the UFC as it is a PPV modeled business. G.S.P. will be coming back. Let's see what his PPV will do.

I feel Nate is being given too little credit for his role in those PPV numbers. He has a following also and he is the right type of opponent for Conor.

UFC is still in control, if they weren't Conor wouldn't have been pulled from UFC 200. They just let him think he is in control because he is making them lots of $$$.

He is a big star there is no doubt about that. He has the highest PPV sales to date.

 

[Rincewind]

McGregor vs Alvarez NOT happening @ UFC 205!!!!??

Alvarez to face Khabib!!???

https://twitter.com/danawhite/status/778421707165937664?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw


Only difference between Khabib and McGregor for Alvarez (besides the money) is that ALvarez actually believes he could beat McGregor!! Despite a poor showing in his comeback, Khabib will surely open as a huge favourite against Alvarez, and deservedly so!

What next for Conor? Could he still make it onto the 205 card vs Jose Aldo? Interesting few weeks ahead!!!

 

[Rincewind]

I feel Nate is being given too little credit for his role in those PPV numbers. He has a following also and he is the right type of opponent for Conor.

Oh please. You cant be serious? Diaz, as much as I love him is and always will be loved by the hardcore fans which make up only a tiny minority of PPV buyers. The average PPV buying, bandwagon jumper didn't have a clue who he was until he called out McGregor.

The credit for the PPV success of both fights is due almost 100% to McGregor and no one else. He's been cultivating his drawing power since the day he was signed to the UFC.

Diaz was just the guy that got lucky enough to fill in for RDA. If the first McGregor/Diaz fight never happened, Nate would still be on his shitty 50/50 contract for fighting once every 12 months and he'd retire on the same shitty contract. Nate grandchildren will have McGregor to thank for their inheritance.

 

[underdog140]

^^^^^^
Perfect example of Nate getting no credit.

I said it earlier in this thread and I will say it again. Nate Diaz is the fight that should have been made for Conor's move up in weight. Both their personality's play off each other and would / did make for a big event. Things worked out in the end with him being a replacement.


Looks like Conor isn't getting what he wants again. First No UFC 200, now no immediate LW title shot. Maby he doesn't run the UFC after all. Then again nothing is official and ESPN is using Dana as the source. He has been known to tell a lie or two.

http://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/...-alvarez-khabib-nurmagomedov-targeted-ufc-205

A lightweight title fight between Eddie Alvarez and Khabib Nurmagomedov is currently being targeted for UFC 205 on Nov. 12 in New York, according to UFC president Dana White.

Also:

( Khabib ) Me and Dana just waiting for Eddie to sign. I promise I will finish you fast and with no pain.

https://twitter.com/TeamKhabib/status/778426402987053057?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

[Rincewind]

^^^^^^
Perfect example of Nate getting no credit.

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Actually more of an example of reality being a bitter pill to swallow for some. Your fooling yourself if you think that Nate brought any more than 10% of the attention that was on those fights. For most people he was just some guy that submitted Mcgregor and gave him loads of material for new qoutes and catchphrases.

Diaz is a multi-millionaire, many times over, thanks almost entirely to Conor McGregor. Can you seriously say he would ever even have gotten close to that kind of wealth on his own steam? Make no mistake, the biggest draw for that fight, by a multiple of 100, was McGregor. Any other fighter could have taken Diaz' place if they had filled in for RDA. Nate was the one who won the lotto. McGregor was the draw. It cant be disputed.

Even now, everyone is talking about Conor vs Nick, Conor vs GSP, Conor vs Eddie Alvarez, Conor vs Floyd Mayweather. No one is talking about who Diaz will be fighting next. Because no one really cares outside of the hardcore fans.

The proof will be evident in their future endeavours. Conor will keep grossing millions from each fight. Diaz will probably go to a 200k per fight contract now. He will never again reach the same heights as he did with Conor, while Conor himself will keep breaking records.

Unless of course, Conor chooses to give him a rubber match, which is entirely possible if the numbers make sense for him.

 

[underdog140]

Sure anyone could of stepped in and the PPV would have done just fine but it wouldn't have done as good.

Are you trying to tell me a Conor vs Joe Blow fight will pull the same numbers as Conor vs Diaz did ? Because that is the claim you are making. Opponents matter and Diaz was the right one.

Diaz getting the money he currently is getting is a combination of allot of things.

No-one is talking about Diaz vs XXX because he lost his last fight. Do you not remember after Diaz won the first fight there were rumors of him fighting for the LW title and fighting for the WW title , fighting G.S.P. Even lots of inquiries of .... Can Diaz make 145lb.

A loss took all that away just like a loss to Diaz took away allot of options ( rumors ? ) that surrounded Conor. Which are all the same ones Diaz gained from beating Conor.

 

[FastOne]

McGregor vs Alvarez NOT happening @ UFC 205!!!!??

Alvarez to face Khabib!!???

That's the 155lb title fight I want to watch and IMO, the opponent Alvarez should face. Not everything can be about what fight potentially would make more money, Khabib deserves that title shot.

Would be great if Connor fights on the same Card to defend his 145lb belt.

 

[Rincewind]

Sure anyone could of stepped in and the PPV would have done just fine but it wouldn't have done as good.

Are you trying to tell me a Conor vs Joe Blow fight will pull the same numbers as Conor vs Diaz did ? Because that is the claim you are making. Opponents matter and Diaz was the right one.

If anyone had done to Mcgregor what Diaz did in the first fight, they would have gotten the same payday as him. Diaz was just the one that got lucky enough to be picked. It could just as easily have been Urijah Faber or a number of guys that would have stepped in on short notice. The common denominator in all possible permutations is McGregor.

Diaz getting the money he currently is getting is a combination of allot of things.

There may be more factors but COnor McGregor is the main factor in his profile being raised by a long way.

Without McGregor none of the other things would add up to shit.

Diaz brought very little in the way of PPV numbers that another fighter would not have brought. It was the McGregor show all the way and Diaz was just lucky enough to ride the wave while it was high.

 

[Rincewind]

That's the 155lb title fight I want to watch and IMO, the opponent Alvarez should face. Not everything can be about what fight potentially would make more money, Khabib deserves that title shot.

Would be great if Connor fights on the same Card to defend his 145lb belt.

Totally. This would be awesome and would make it a marquee card that would not be surpassed for years.

Conor has to be kicking himself that Khabib is getting at Alvarez first.

Khabib beats both of them IMO. Conor's chances of taking two simultaneous titles aint lookin so good now.

 

[underdog140]

If anyone had done to Mcgregor what Diaz did in the first fight, they would have gotten the same payday as him. Diaz was just the one that got lucky enough to be picked. It could just as easily have been Urijah Faber or a number of guys that would have stepped in on short notice. The common denominator in all possible permutations is McGregor.

Those other guys you speak of were in fight shape and Conor/UFC couldn't risk that. Instead lets put Conor in against a win one lose one fighter that has personality and a following and next to 0 prep time so Conor can showcase his skills. That is why Diaz was picked. Not because of luck or any other reason. That back fired didn't it.

Diaz vs Conor was going to happen sooner or later. Their personalities clash and that means $$$ for everyone involved. And UFC seems to be all about $$$ fights lately. Seems like an obvious match up that would have been made at some point regardless.

There may be more factors but COnor McGregor is the main factor in his profile being raised by a long way.

I would say Diaz getting the win over Conor elevated his profile/following. Diaz had to get the win and he did that himself.

Without McGregor none of the other things would add up to shit.

Wrong and a little disrespectful. He had done more than 99% of other MMA will do with their careers.

Diaz brought very little in the way of PPV numbers that another fighter would not have brought. It was the McGregor show all the way and Diaz was just lucky enough to ride the wave while it was high.

In order for this to be true you would have to believe the PPV numbers would have been the same regardless of who Conor fought/fights. That simply isn't the case. Opponents matter. Diaz was the right one.

Edit:

I to would like to see Conor added to the fight card defending his 145lb belt. The two champions defending on the same card leading to a fight between the two but I don't think this will happen. UFC 205 is already stacked enough. I can't see them adding Conor to it when they can use his name for another event.

 

[OzExorcist]

McGregor vs Alvarez NOT happening @ UFC 205!!!!??

Alvarez to face Khabib!!???

https://twitter.com/danawhite/status/778421707165937664?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

This is just Dana negotiating in public IMO - I won't believe it's actually happening until there's an official announcement and posters released. Actually I wouldn't believe it's really happening even then, what with Khabib's unfortunate injury history (and his still training at the AKA injury factory)

They're nuts if they think they'll pull big numbers with Tyron Woodley and Eddie Alvarez both fighting relatively obscure hardcore-favourites as the main and co-main events.

I feel Nate is being given too little credit for his role in those PPV numbers. He has a following also and he is the right type of opponent for Conor.

UFC is still in control, if they weren't Conor wouldn't have been pulled from UFC 200. They just let him think he is in control because he is making them lots of $$$.

It's interesting though - yes the UFC showed they were "still in control" when they pulled him from the 200 card but they really shot themselves in the foot doing it. Pulling McGregor meant they had to overpay Brock Lesnar to come in and "rescue" the card... and then the card underperformed against any reasonable expectations.

Are you trying to tell me a Conor vs Joe Blow fight will pull the same numbers as Conor vs Diaz did ? Because that is the claim you are making. Opponents matter and Diaz was the right one.

McGregor's fight with Denis Siver wasn't on PPV, but it set viewership records for a Fox broadcast. That was before McGregor's popularity really blew up, and opponents don't get much more "Joe Blow" than Denis Siver...

McGregor also did over a million PPV buys against Chad Mendes, who once again isn't exactly popular or a promotional dynamo.

I'm not saying Diaz doesn't do his bit, don't get me wrong. McGregor v Some Random might not quite do McGregor-Diaz numbers. But yes, absolutely, McGregor v Some Random would likely still do megabucks. It's a credit to the guy that he hasn't chosen to do that IMO, that he's chasing big fights with tough guys. But if he fought a nobody, I think people would still watch.

The proof is in the UFC's other big star BTW: Ronda Rousey. As just one example, she did about a million PPV buys fighting Bethe Correia, at the top of a card that stunk, and wasn't even on at a good time for American audiences IIRC.

I to would like to see Conor added to the fight card defending his 145lb belt. The two champions defending on the same card leading to a fight between the two but I don't think this will happen. UFC 205 is already stacked enough. I can't see them adding Conor to it when they can use his name for another event.

Sorry but... UFC 205 isn't even remotely stacked. At least not in a "fights that will do big numbers" way. They've only confirmed five fights so far and none is a legit headliner for a card that would do more than about 300k buys. Tyron Woodley is a nobody, fighting Stephen Thompson who hardcore fans love but Joe Public doesn't know from a bar of soap.

There's a has-beens fight between Tim Kennedy and Rashad Evans. Cerrone v Lawler would have been awesome, but instead we're getting Cerrone v Gastelum, which is less awesome. Weidman-Romero should be interesting but it's not a headliner. Carmouche-Chookagian will be lucky not to get buried on Fight Pass.

Alvarez v Nurmagomedov wouldn't move the needle, and I'm saying that as someone who f&*king loves Khabib. Cormier has ruled himself out for the card due to his new commentary gig (and he hasn't proven himself a draw without Jones to play off anyway). GSP couldn't get through the testing pool in time. Rousey has been ruled out. They can't even go back to the Lesnar well again after the drugs fiasco. Same goes for Jon Jones.

Basically if they want this event to be huge and sell a million PPVs, they only have one choice and that choice's name is McGregor.

Whether that's fighting for the belt at 145 or 155 is irrelevant to the sales, though I still think the smartest move is to make it for the 155 belt. People have seen the 145 fight against Aldo before (and they've seen the promo for it TWICE before) and it's literally impossible for McGregor to put on a better performance v Aldo than he did last time.

 

[underdog140]

UFC didn't shoot themselves in the foot. UFC 200 did 1.2 million in PPV sales. It also broke the record for highest attendance and gate for a UFC Las Vegas show. Pulling Conor from the card will pay dividends in the future and make anyone think that they are above doing media think twice before skipping it. I am not fully convinced Brock cost more than Conor would have. Brock 2.5 million for UFC 200 .... Conor $3 million for UFC 202.


As for the Denis Silver match, ( I don't consider him a "Joe Blow", I actually think he is an under-rated fighter ) No point in comparing free tv with PPV numbers.

I am not saying Conor wouldn't of still done good numbers without Diaz. I am saying the event wouldn't have done as well as it did. Diaz played his part. He deserves credit for the event and PPV numbers also. Along with others that were on the card.

Chasing big fights..... He is ducking defending his belt so he can still be called champion while he chases the 155lb title. He chose an out of shape fighter in Diaz instead of one that was ready and had a full camp when he needed a replacement, Mendes also fought Conor on short notice and before that Conor faced the man you deemed as a "Joe Blow" Denis Siver. I think he ( Or The UFC ) is picking his fights wisely thus far. Him KO'ing Aldo was impressive and showed Conor can hit hard. But we already knew that.

UFC 205: New York City Fight Card

Tyron Woodley vs. Stephen Thompson
Kelvin Gastelum vs. Donald Cerrone — LAWLER WITHDREW
Tim Kennedy vs. Rashad Evans
Thiago Alves vs. Jim Miller— IAQUINTA WITHDREW
Gian Villante vs. Marcos Rogerio de Lima — VILLANTE INJURED
Chris Weidman vs. Yoel Romero
Frankie Edgar vs. Jeremy Stephens
Liz Carmouche vs. Katlyn Chookagian


Looks good to me. The UFC has put on much worse PPV ( on paper ) then this one.

 

[OzExorcist]

We've had this discussion before and I don't think you're likely to see my point this time either but for the sake of the argument: UFC200 was supposed to be the biggest, baddest card of all time. It "only" did 1.2 million buys. Yes, in a vacuum that's a lot, but it think it's less than they would have been hoping for. It's certainly less than other cards that have been put on with less of a promotional push.

As for Siver, he's the definition of a nobody fighter. His skills may or may not be underrated - to be clear, I've got absolutely nothing against him as a fighter. But promotionally he's a nothing. A warm body filling a spot on a card, somebody that's not going to change the viewership numbers in any meaningful way.

And yes, the UFC has put on worse PPV cards than UFC205 before. Those cards all did rubbish PPV numbers.

I'm not besmirching the fighters here. There's some fights on this card I'm super-keen to see (particularly Frankie-Stephens and Weidman-Romero). If the UFC wants to put on an "average" card for its debut in New York and if they'd be happy with 300-400k PPV buys then I'm sure everything will be fine.

If they're aiming to do better than that though (and it certainly seems like they expect to make a big splash), then the article I quoted earlier shows they need a bigger name on top of the card. And as I mentioned, there's only one marquee name available right now: Conor McGregor.

 

[Rincewind]

Alvarez has been offered terms to fight Khabib @ UFC 206 in Toronto!!

Don't know what's going on b but could 205 be falling apart?

https://twitter.com/UFCTonight/status/778751538428641280

 

[underdog140]

We've had this discussion before and I don't think you're likely to see my point this time either but for the sake of the argument: UFC200 was supposed to be the biggest, baddest card of all time. It "only" did 1.2 million buys. Yes, in a vacuum that's a lot, but it think it's less than they would have been hoping for. It's certainly less than other cards that have been put on with less of a promotional push.

It being advertised as the biggest and baddest was just a marketing ploy. UFC/Dana was probably wanting more but there isn't anything wrong with 1.2 Million PPV sales.

As for Siver, he's the definition of a nobody fighter. His skills may or may not be underrated - to be clear, I've got absolutely nothing against him as a fighter. But promotionally he's a nothing. A warm body filling a spot on a card, somebody that's not going to change the viewership numbers in any meaningful way.

I guess our definitions of a nobody fighter differ. Siver is known by the hardcore fans and I would even say some casuals would know who he is. He was in the top 10 for awhile.

And yes, the UFC has put on worse PPV cards than UFC205 before. Those cards all did rubbish PPV numbers.

I'm not besmirching the fighters here. There's some fights on this card I'm super-keen to see (particularly Frankie-Stephens and Weidman-Romero). If the UFC wants to put on an "average" card for its debut in New York and if they'd be happy with 300-400k PPV buys then I'm sure everything will be fine.

If they're aiming to do better than that though (and it certainly seems like they expect to make a big splash), then the article I quoted earlier shows they need a bigger name on top of the card. And as I mentioned, there's only one marquee name available right now: Conor McGregor.

Iwas just pointing out the UFC has put on some lack luster PPV's before. This one as it stands isn't all that bad but I do see your point about giving it that little extra because it is the first show in New York.

 

[underdog140]

Rincewind

McGregor vs Alvarez NOT happening @ UFC 205!!!!??

Alvarez to face Khabib!!???

https://twitter.com/danawhite/status...rc=twsrc^tfw

There are rumors going around that Alvarez won't sign to fight Khabib. Could be the reason it was pushed back. Holding out for Conor or more money ??? I would do the same thing if I was him. He stands to make millions vs Conor and it's an easier fight.

Interesting stuff.

Edit:

UFC featherweight champion Conor McGregor is "unlikely" to compete at UFC 205 on Nov. 12 in New York, according to a report from "UFC Tonight."

Wednesday's report stated McGregor is "rehabbing a leg injury."

http://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/...injured-conor-mcgregor-unlikely-fight-ufc-205

Sources close to Conor claim Conor is ok and could fight at UFC 205

https://twitter.com/bokamotoESPN/status/778767311905828864?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

[OzExorcist]

I honestly don't understand why the UFC keeps trying to get into pissing contests with its biggest star. The formula seems to be pretty simple:

1. Let McGregor fight whoever he wants, whenever he wants
2. *shrugs*
3. Profit. Masses and masses of profit, for everyone concerned

The "Conor McGregor" brand is already bigger than the "UFC" brand. The numbers prove it. You can't put that genie back in the bottle. And this isn't an ordinary sport where you have to be a slave to rankings, it's prize fighting. The goal for both the fighters and the promoter is to make as much money as possible.

 

[Rincewind]

I honestly don't understand why the UFC keeps trying to get into pissing contests with its biggest star. The formula seems to be pretty simple:

1. Let McGregor fight whoever he wants, whenever he wants
2. *shrugs*
3. Profit. Masses and masses of profit, for everyone concerned

The "Conor McGregor" brand is already bigger than the "UFC" brand. The numbers prove it. You can't put that genie back in the bottle. And this isn't an ordinary sport where you have to be a slave to rankings, it's prize fighting. The goal for both the fighters and the promoter is to make as much money as possible.

So very very true.

The biggest stumbling block to an even more profitable relationship between the UFC and McGregor, is a certain Mr. Dana White.

Sooner rather than later though, the new owners of the UFC will realise that Dana is merely 250lbs of mouth and pride and he will be cut loose. He's actually come full circle and become more of a liability than an asset. An ignorant relic that harks back to the days when fighters were treated like replaceable commodities.

I would give him 36 months tops.

 

[underdog140]

That sounds good to me as a fan who wants to see all sorts of different fights ( freak-shows and all ) and in the short term might make them loads of money but will cost them long term. It would be a step in the wrong direction for the company and maby even MMA in general.

Conor is lucky in the sense that the other draws are inactive for different reasons atm. It adds to the sway he currently has. That is going to change sooner or later.

 

[underdog140]

http://www.bjpenn.com/mma-news/eddie-alvarez/eddie-alvarez-misses-red-panty-night-demanding-much/

Report: Eddie Alvarez misses out on ‘red panty night’ after demanding too much

“So from what I hear, Eddie Alvarez was complaining to the UFC brass that he wanted more money to fight Conor McGregor. He wanted pay-per-view points, he wanted a certain amount of money. And the UFC, you know Joe Silva’s going out, he goes, ‘You wanna do what? Oh one of the biggest fight card of all time at Madison Square Garden. First time the UFC’s ever been to New York and we’re allowing you to fight Conor McGregor as the main event but you want more money? Nah, I’ll tell you what we’re gonna do. We’re going to pull Conor off, give him a bigger fight. Then, here’s Khabib Nurmagomedov.

 

[andyt5303]

Multiple sites reporting Joanna vs Karolina set for 205. Also Tate vs Pennington.

Man I'm still bummed about Lawler pulling out of the Cerrone fight, that would have been insaaaaane.