'Black Friday' and associated fallout megathread

[crow27]

So, what makes the sites that are still available to u.s. players ok?
Why weren't we shut out of them also?

why would Sportsbook be ok to play on, that's a gambling website too ain't it?

I'm kind of confused why it was just the 3 sites.

What's to say the gov. won't go after them too for some reason?

 

[TheKAAHK]

i dont know what happing i didnt launder any money why they should prevent me from cashing out i didnt do any thing crimanel why shoud honest gamblers suffer from this

Read the first page of this thread. That should answer most of your questions.

 

[OzExorcist]

Taxes are emposed when money is changing hands, hince why placing taxes on a unsold artwork is a rediculous idea. In your example, money changes hands several times. In poker, money changes hands once. If they chose to charge me tax for every pot, then they are telling me that I am receiving money right then and that it is now mine. If they chose to tax me after I cash out my winnings then the government is telling me that the money isn't really mine until I cash it out and thats why I'm being taxed.

I'm not saying it isn't possible, I'm just saying it doesn't make sense.

I think you're getting really hung up on the word "tax". Forget about that for a moment and instead just apply some common sense - a more highly regulated operating environment means higher compliance costs, right?

So think about it this way. Whether or not it's called a "tax" the US government is likely to charge sites a licensing fee that to provide services to US players. They will also likely expect the sites that do get licenses to make certain changes to their software and perform various monitoring and reporting tasks that up until now they haven't had to do. This will almost certainly mean they need to hire more staff, who will need to be paid.

These are costs the existing sites haven't had to pay up until now. The sites have two choices in how to deal with the additional costs: they can absorb the cost out of their bottom line or they can pass the cost on to us, the players, in the form of increased rakes and tournament fees. Which do you think they'll do?

 

[Gunner57]

Grover Cleaveland:

"When more of the people's sustenance is exacted through the form of taxation than is necessary to meet the just obligations of government, such exaction becomes ruthless extortion and a violation of the fundamental principles of a free government."

This is a great Quote! Too many politicians in the US do not live by it though

As for how poker will be taxed if it is made legal, you better believe they will tax you on your winnings.... Not what you take out!

Now what would make sense would be to apply a tax on what you cash.... But that would be fair and would be common sense. If the government would adopt this I would be shocked. This also would not be too much different than what is already in place as many people who make a considerable amount of money online report it.

 

[PC69]

Anyone know why I can still register for the $50 Freeroll on UB.

 

[Pascal-lf]

I think you're getting really hung up on the word "tax". Forget about that for a moment and instead just apply some common sense - a more highly regulated operating environment means higher compliance costs, right?

So think about it this way. Whether or not it's called a "tax" the US government is likely to charge sites a licensing fee that to provide services to US players. They will also likely expect the sites that do get licenses to make certain changes to their software and perform various monitoring and reporting tasks that up until now they haven't had to do. This will almost certainly mean they need to hire more staff, who will need to be paid.

These are costs the existing sites haven't had to pay up until now. The sites have two choices in how to deal with the additional costs: they can absorb the cost out of their bottom line or they can pass the cost on to us, the players, in the form of increased rakes and tournament fees. Which do you think they'll do?

The US government will only pay for increased regulation and the costs associated with that, while the poker sites will have to eat up the costs of the extra staff they might have to employ. Any taxes will go straight to the Treasury after they've paid off the insignificant cost of a small team.

When the Euro was introduced, prices increased dramatically, because consumers did not know proper exchange rates from their old consumers and didn't realise they were getting ripped off. The same thing will likely happen when US poker sites open, and it'll take a ton of money out of the poker economy before prices slowly reach their natural point.

 

[OzExorcist]

So, what makes the sites that are still available to u.s. players ok?
Why weren't we shut out of them also?

why would Sportsbook be ok to play on, that's a gambling website too ain't it?

I'm kind of confused why it was just the 3 sites.

What's to say the gov. won't go after them too for some reason?

There's nothing to say the government won't go after the other sites that are still serving US customers - which is why a lot of people are saying it's silly to continue playing on them or to be looking to deposit large sums of money onto them.

The reason they've gone after the big three first is because the authorities aren't stupid and they want to get the best bang for their buck. For every site they want to take action against they have to go through the process of gathering evidence. That takes time and if you've only got a limited amount of time it makes sense that you'd go after the biggest players.

Plus there's a chance that if the biggest players get taken down some of the smaller ones will take themselves out of the game in fear. I'm pretty sure I've seen news stories saying that Victory Poker is removing itself from the US market of its own volition in the wake of the FT/Stars action and I'd be surprised if others didn't follow suit.

The government isn't saying the other sites are OK to play on just because they weren't named in this round of action. They're just saying they'll get to them later.

 

[OzExorcist]

Anyone know why I can still register for the $50 Freeroll on UB.

Because last I read UB was taking an "FU" approach to the situation and continuing to let American players play?

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

Anyone know why I can still register for the $50 Freeroll on UB.

UB are still letting americans play (but you can't deposit/withdraw lol)

 

[onemorechance]

Anyone know why I can still register for the $50 Freeroll on UB.

Primarily because lol UB

heh dorkus got there first

 

[Dreams of Tragedy]

I had to put this in ...sorry guys..in a time like this this made me laugh due to black friday

Give me poker or give me death

 

[darkassassin89]

Can someone give me a way to work from home? i am broke bc money was tied to FTP. I am desperate. ill be a slave if thats wat it takes to eat, and shower veryday!!!

btw what of the FTP pros? they fired?

 

[Logan2]

What i miss in the last 4 pages?

Recap please!!

 

[tusabes]

What i miss in the last 4 pages?

Recap please!!

speculation

 

[S93]

What i miss in the last 4 pages?

Recap please!!

Not much:

 

[Logan2]

speculation

So nothing new since yesterday, tx guys.

LOL to this

Even jesus,gandhi,buddha,allah,god and puppies hate shortstackers.

 

[lilybo]

Pascal and charade, these were, as I am sure, the automated responses generated from my generated responses to them, via the links easily accessed to point out my displeasure with these events. I previously have mentioned to them that in almost every gas station, restaurant/bar, and store in Michigan allows me to gamble at their and my convienence, as well as the several casinos Michigan has to offer any time, day or night. I see no significant difference between that and my ability to play poker online. I do see a great difference in the skills needed to master poker, and very little skill in an effort in pushing a button to start a random slot machine. I lol at my family members who waste thousands of dollars a year at our local casinos. I feel there is a pride that is achieved in a poker game, whether it's a live game or online (still live imo). McCotter seems to be an ass, and Stabenow seems to be playing it safe.

 

[gtrippp]

Coincidence?

Did anyone else notice that the U.S. cracked down on FTP & poker stars right after they partnered up w/ Las Vegas? Probably just a coincidence, but maybe the U.S. took it as tho they were flaunting their law-breaking a little too close to home. I'm hoping that they're just doing this to put pressure on the companies to work harder at getting online gambling legalized, so that they can then tax it and make money. That way, they can do it in a way that the U.S. doesn't really look like they approve of it, but just had to succumb to popular opinion. Probably just wishful thinking, but I hope not.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Did anyone else notice that the U.S. cracked down on FTP & Poker Stars right after they partnered up w/ Las Vegas? Probably just a coincidence, but maybe the U.S. took it as tho they were flaunting their law-breaking a little too close to home. I'm hoping that they're just doing this to put pressure on the companies to work harder at getting online gambling legalized, so that they can then tax it and make money. That way, they can do it in a way that the U.S. doesn't really look like they approve of it, but just had to succumb to popular opinion. Probably just wishful thinking, but I hope not.

Do ya figure that FTP & Stars didn't want to operate legally within the US?

 

[Mase31683]

Personally, I think someone at the FBI was just sick of reading the threads on ***IS ONLIne POkerZ rIGGeD??!??!?!***** and said eff all of this, I'm ending it!

 

[the Styb]

i dont know what happing i didnt launder any money why they should prevent me from cashing out i didnt do any thing crimanel why shoud honest gamblers suffer from this

I have never met an honest gambler. Honest players? Yes. Honest gamblers… no.

So, what makes the sites that are still available to u.s. players ok? Why weren't we shut out of them also? why would Sportsbook be ok to play on, that's a gambling website too ain't it?

I'm kind of confused why it was just the 3 sites. What's to say the gov. won't go after them too for some reason?

Again, for everyone that hasn't been paying attention: BECAUSE DANNY TZVETKOFF, THE PRIMARY PAYMENT PROCESSOR FOR THE BIG THREE, TILT, STARS and UB, GOT PINCHED IN VEGAS LAST YEAR AND TO SAVE HIS OWN ASS HE"S TURNING STATE'S EVIDENCE ON THEM!!

Jesus, pay attention!

What i miss in the last 4 pages?
Recap please!!

A lot of doofuses asking the same dumb questions that have already been answered in 100 posts. And a nice recap of UIGEA (if I do say so myself,) since 2006 in post 1045 of this thread.

 

[Charade You Are]

Pascal and charade, these were, as I am sure, the automated responses generated from my generated responses to them, via the links easily accessed to point out my displeasure with these events. I previously have mentioned to them that in almost every gas station, restaurant/bar, and store in Michigan allows me to gamble at their and my convienence, as well as the several casinos Michigan has to offer any time, day or night. I see no significant difference between that and my ability to play poker online. I do see a great difference in the skills needed to master poker, and very little skill in an effort in pushing a button to start a random slot machine. I lol at my family members who waste thousands of dollars a year at our local casinos. I feel there is a pride that is achieved in a poker game, whether it's a live game or online (still live imo). McCotter seems to be an ass, and Stabenow seems to be playing it safe.

Of all the emails I sent, this is my only reply so far:

Thank you for contacting the office of Senator Jeanne Shaheen. We appreciate hearing from you. If you have a time sensitive issue and need immediate assistance, please contact the Manchester district office at 603-647-7500 or the Washington, D.C. office at 202-224-2841.

 

[WVHillbilly]

Early PokerScout numbers on the effects of Black Friday

pokerstars -25%
full tilt poker -48%
Cereus Network -39%

Huge hit for Tilt and Cereus' numbers would obviously be worse yet had they stopped serving US customers.

The overall poker market dropped 23%.

 

[PC69]

Personally, I think someone at the FBI was just sick of reading the threads on ***IS ONLIne POkerZ rIGGeD??!??!?!***** and said eff all of this, I'm ending it!

Holy shittttttttt, look who it is. What up bro?

 

[smd173]

Again, for everyone that hasn't been paying attention: BECAUSE DANNY TZVETKOFF, THE PRIMARY PAYMENT PROCESSOR FOR THE BIG THREE, TILT, STARS and UB, GOT PINCHED IN VEGAS LAST YEAR AND TO SAVE HIS OWN ASS HE"S TURNING STATE'S EVIDENCE ON THEM!!

Well it's a big vicious cycle with this guy. They had him help them set up the phony companies. He started skimming off the top from them. They caught wind of it and tipped off the US that he was in Vegas and he got busted. He then turned on them to reduce his time in Federal PYITA Prison. They got busted.

Greed, Greed, Greed.