Thanks man. That was a very specific answer to my question.
I do admit to a little confusion though, regarding this:
The DOJ is not going to target players because it is not a Federal crime to play.
Not a crime to play, as such, but the comment in the FBI warning (again, to
the legally untrained) makes it sound like you commit a crime as soon
as you "knowingly accept, in connection with participation of another person
in unlawful Internet gambling, credit, electronic fund transfers, or checks".
So, not a crime to make the wager but becomes a crime when you win
that wager and accept the payment from whoever lost?
No you misunderstood it. It is a crime to take the wager if you are a
poker site (and this is assuming
online poker is illegal which has yet to be proven but will be a main point of contention if this case actually does see a courtroom). They are quoting out of context to scare people, no more no less. It is not illegal to gamble online and it is not illegal to cash out winnings from an online
gambling site, let alone an online poker site which probably does not classify as a gambling site (but the DoJ disagrees with me there).
Regarding comments on taxing the winnings: How would you do that?
The Fed can't tax money you don't actually receive.
It's about the definition of receive. I believe the term is constructive receipt. I actually had this conversation with my CPA as I like to proscrastinate and had not filed my taxes when that happened on the 15th (they were due on the 18th). He said as long as you had constructive receipt aka the ability to withdraw the money at the end of 2010 you owe taxes on the money whether you can currently get it offline or not. And of course you pay taxes based on winnings not on deposits/cashouts.
Let's say your grandmother shuffles off this mortal coil and leaves you $100,000. you pay the taxes and put the rest in your bank account, where every month you'll accrue interest and at the end of the year you'll pay taxes on the interest.
Then one day you get a wild hair, you know where, and pull out $5K to deposit on Full Tilt. You mess around in a few small satellites and win a seat in a big tourney. Then let's say you get lucky and win $25K in that tourney. That money goes in your tilt account and you immediately use $10K to enter another big tourney, but you don't cash. (Sucker!) Do you owe taxes on the $25K you won or on the $15K you are left with?
Your net winnings are 25000-10000-whatever the buyin was to the tourney in which you won 25k assuming those are the only 2 tourneys you played. How you file depends on a lot of things and you should talk to a tax professional not me but if you are an amateur I believe you have to report that you won 25k and list the 10k as a deduction whereas if you file as a pro you can simply take the net and report that. Either way it has nothing to do with how much you have left, how much is in your account, how much you withdraw, or anything else. It's about how much you won.
Technically, as long as that money sits in your Tilt account, the Fed can not tax or touch it.
False
And let's be honest here, it's not really an account. You don't actually possess the money and you don't accrue interest on it. It's just a bunch of nicely placed pixels on your screen that is the equivalent of an IOU from Full Tilt, who actually DOES possess it and actually DOES accrue interest on it at a bank outside the US, where again, they can not tax or touch it.
Again false, seriously I'm not the person to explain this to you contact a tax professional but one thing's for sure if you get audited and explain that this is how you based your taxes paid you will be ****ed pretty hard. They can tax you as long as you have constructive receipt of your money which is the means to withdraw. You had the means to withdraw all of 2010 unless there is something I don't know, so you owe full taxes on everything you won in 2010. If you lose money earned from 2011 and can't cash it out this year there is a chance you can write it off/not pay on winnings for this year, but that's another story.
Essentially, one big score can last a good player quite a while. If you actually ask Full Tilt to send you some of it, the Fed can tax that portion, but they can't touch what's in your "account". You could have half a million dollars in your Tilt account but be moving ten or more times that in a year depending on wins, losses and table stakes, yet only be taxed on the small portions you cash out of your account. This is the thing that really pisses the government off.
Again this is just so false not sure I want to waste time replying but read the earlier part of my post. If you win 10k then lose 10k you don't owe taxes on 10k earnings although you might have to report earning 10k and then deduct 10k if you file as an amateur.
But seriously consult a tax professional before you do something dumb that will cost you a lot because you have a lot of misconceptions on the way US tax law works.
So, what makes the sites that are still available to u.s. players ok?
Why weren't we shut out of them also?
why would Sportsbook be ok to play on, that's a gambling website too ain't it?
I'm kind of confused why it was just the 3 sites.
What's to say the gov. won't go after them too for some reason?
There is a very good chance the gov't will go after them. Sportsbook is actually way worse because if it has sports betting it actually does violate the wire act and is thus subject to the UIGEA. I can't place a number on the risk but there is definitely a risk on any US site that they will get their money seized. Also note the reason FTP and Stars have locked you out is due to their choice (most likely because of what their lawyers told them to do) while UB/AP has decided to say **** you to the US government and the rest of the sites just continue to do as they did before. There is a chance it gets seized and a chance they don't pay you your money.
UB are still letting americans play (but you can't deposit/withdraw lol)
I've heard of a few people "withdrawing" but no confirmed money hitting bank accounts. Similarly my friend owns an affiliate that does rb with UB. He said they are now I think 4 days late with rakeback payments and they have never been late before. He speculates they could be planning on making a run with the money but obviously no one knows for sure. Also they were still taking deposits as of 2 days ago I believe. And for those of you with rb my friend said he would eat the cost out of pocket and he expects any other reputable rb site worth their salt to do the same so you will probably still receive any rakeback but it's not out of the question that they will end up running with money. Seriously anyone playing on Cereus these days even before Friday was making a really bad decision already anyone who has any amount of
real money on Cereus seriously do yourself a favor get all you can offline asap before it's too late (hopefully it's not too late already).
I have never met an honest gambler. Honest players? Yes. Honest gamblers… no.
lol what? Lots of poker players are also gamblers. How many poker players also play
blackjack/craps/
roulette/do random flips with each other? I have a ton of friends who gamble a ton and although they realize it's not +ev there are definitely honest gamblers. And of course the people who don't even play poker who play casino games. You're saying every old lady pulling the slot handle is dishonest?
Early PokerScout numbers on the effects of Black Friday
PokerStars -25%
Full Tilt Poker -48%
Cereus Network -39%
Huge hit for Tilt and Cereus' numbers would obviously be worse yet had they stopped serving US customers.
The overall poker market dropped 23%.
I think this is worse than it will be in the future though. Right now there is a lot of reactionary cashouts from people not in the US. Assuming no one runs with money and they can prove it really is business as usual for non-US players FTP/Stars will likely see a spike in traffic when people start putting money back online and playing again although no one can argue that it sucked and is terrible long-term, just that the numbers are inflated and I doubt the long-term market is actually 23% worse than before Friday in say another 2-3 months.
