'Black Friday' and associated fallout megathread

[Pascal-lf]

Stars T&C say that money is held on trust for customer's, gl high-tailing it without law suits from a ridic number of countries.

 

[atlantafalcons0]

I don't know why everyone's so upset, online poker sucks anyway.

 

[onemorechance]

I don't know why everyone's so upset, online poker sucks anyway.

You're a lot more bearable when you're not posting

 

[Tangerine 53]

I have withdrawn all my money from stars and couldnt get on full tilt to do it. I am an english player so this is strange.

I am very worried because when i withdrew my $18000 from stars after my win (had left 2kish back) the cheque went into my bank account but some of the funds are still uncleared despite the cheque been cashed over a month ago now.

my bank statements show the balance as it should be in my accounts but the availible balance is less and apparently because some funds have not cleared. I am terrified my financial position mnay not be what it should be because of activity relating to this.

if anyone has any knowledge or advice on this if they could fill me in.

thanks in advance.

If this was a cheque (check for our US friends ) then it can take quite a time to clear particularly if this was a $ cheque being paid into a £ bank account. For the cheque to clear (i.e. available funds in your account) it has to go back to the US for clearing there and from experience I've had before at my old company this can take the best part of a month.

As others have said contact your UK bank and discuss it with them - if necessary they can do a trace with the counterparty's bank.

 

[Starfishkat]

Getting involved

I'd like to know who to write and tell them they have no right to stop me from playing poker online with money if I so choose. Everyone needs to write these people involved in this action and voice their opinions. Of course it's not new news that they have stopped this sometime back...people!

Although my bank did release funds to FTP they did not for PSO!

I've also seen a note on PSO that "I may not be allowed to win money"

So this isn't news that gambling online is illegal in certain states. It's time to to write THEM! again and demand your freedom of choice.

I can drive to the RES. or Vegas and gamble this is ridicules!!!

 

[Stick66]

Also, yeah, I can't help but facepalm when I see someone saying "Oh well Stars/FT have locked me out I'm gonna go deposit on [other site] now". This is a stupid idea, people.

+1. Even though Cardschat is now promoting others in it's banners & emails, no one knows if/when bodog, Sportbook, Players Only, Carbon, etc., etc. will get popped for the same thing.

 

[Marginal]

Yes and Dorkus, you have to realize that that thinking is brought about by the advertising going on at CC. So I'm just saying, put business aside and put some real warnings up about the risk. By advertising you are not protecting your members.

 

[belladonna05]

Anyway, there's a whole host of possibilities all branching off each other and making the broad situation impossible to call or even make an educated guess about. The defendants could settle, they could not - the sites accessibility to US citizens could form part of a settlement, it could not - if Americans do get blocked they might get their money back, they might not. That's just one branch in a whole goddamn huge tree of possibilities.

I still think it's likely that everyone's money is safe because as far as I understand it would take either (using Stars as an example) the DoJ flouting Manx law (which is essentially UK law) or the powers that be at the site saying screw it and high-tailing it with customer's money in tow. If the sites can pay whatever fines/compensation is due, they will pay it, if they can't then they can just declare themselves insolvent and leave the DoJ with their 5p/£ or whatever. Stars or FT going insolvent seems ridiculously unlikely though, as they make a hell of a lot of money and the company's assets are, in relation to most other kinds of business, incredibly liquid.

Also, yeah, I can't help but facepalm when I see someone saying "Oh well Stars/FT have locked me out I'm gonna go deposit on [other site] now". This is a stupid idea, people.

smartie pants with a voice of reason

 

[Debi]

For people with a lot of money online, you may wish to consider making a trip to another country. This would require a bill to an address in that other country as well as a bank account in that country. This means that you must physically be there to get a place, wait for a bill to be sent there, and then use this to open a bank account, then contact the poker site and change your country and you should be able to cashout. Stars has confirmed on 2p2 that this is possible while FTP has not commented. But I know a bunch of non-US players who have successfully cashed out from FTP and I know several people I play with everyday who used to have US locations on FTP now have foreign countries (most Canada). I don't know if that allows them to play after the update (I'm still playing because I haven't shut my client yet) or cashout, but it is a positive sign that they can change their country which they couldn't the day of the seizure, and cashouts are working for other people in those countries.

I have a question about this. If a person already has a bank account in the UK - would it still be required to have a bill in their name? Are the sites requiring this for withdrawals? My husband has a UK account and can get my name added to it. We will be in the UK in 2 weeks - but only for 10 days. We have an address we can use - but obviously won't be there long enough to establish any kind of acct and have a bill sent to it.

Also - should he temporarily change the address at the bank to a UK address until the withdrawal has been done?

-thanks!

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

If you change address the sites generally require you to send some proof of residency, be it a bank statement or utility bill or whatever with the relevant address on it. With all the stuff that's happening I can see them being even more anal about this in the future.

 

[XXXDIRTYDOGXXX]

I have a question about this. If a person already has a bank account in the UK - would it still be required to have a bill in their name? Are the sites requiring this for withdrawals? My husband has a UK account and can get my name added to it. We will be in the UK in 2 weeks - but only for 10 days. We have an address we can use - but obviously won't be there long enough to establish any kind of acct and have a bill sent to it.

Also - should he temporarily change the address at the bank to a UK address until the withdrawal has been done?

-thanks!

This is what I'm asking in another thread, what is linking us to just being US?

 

[Debi]

If you change address the sites generally require you to send some proof of residency, be it a bank statement or utility bill or whatever with the relevant address on it. With all the stuff that's happening I can see them being even more anal about this in the future.

I can have a bank statement - so my question is will that be enough?

 

[arkyten]

March to DC, etc

Get on your Harleys, in a bus with all your grinder buds and build this movement.
http://youtu.be/S0frAtO-V-w
VOTE!!!
Tweet at http://www.tweetforpoker.com/

 

[Marginal]

I can have a bank statement - so my question is will that be enough?

Well you would need a bill with your name on it or explain it is your family's bill and you moved there.

 

[Debi]

Well you would need a bill with your name on it or explain it is your family's bill and you moved there.

So - if I have a bill with my mother-in-law's name on it and use her address saying I am living there - they would accept that?

 

[JOEBOB69]

I'm guessing not.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

I can have a bank statement - so my question is will that be enough?

I would imagine so, yes. (E: oh yeah, your name would probably need to be on it :/)

You might want to do a search of this and/or other forums to see if you can find the form e-mail Stars/FT sends out when asking for ID and proof of residency.

 

[JOEBOB69]

I would imagine so, yes.

You might want to do a search of this and/or other forums to see if you can find the form e-mail Stars/FT sends out when asking for ID and proof of residency.

Going through the other fourum a PS reb said you need prove of residency.
Post #6 i think
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/just-received-call-isle-man-ps-1021319/

 

[dj11]

I have a question about this. If a person already has a bank account in the UK - would it still be required to have a bill in their name? Are the sites requiring this for withdrawals? My husband has a UK account and can get my name added to it. We will be in the UK in 2 weeks - but only for 10 days. We have an address we can use - but obviously won't be there long enough to establish any kind of acct and have a bill sent to it.

Also - should he temporarily change the address at the bank to a UK address until the withdrawal has been done?

-thanks!

Get a cell phone in Europe, with a European #, give it only to the Sites, and allowing incoming calls. Have Joe offer to pay some small bill for relatives if they put that bill in your name. Change the address on your credit cards to some European address and then do most of your bill paying online. Get a proxy in Europe to access the BIG 3 so you can continue playing. You do not want to stop playing do you?

Get Joe to volunteer to head up his companies expansion into Prague, or Vienna. Oh Hell, Amsterdam, but stay away from red lights........

Else, polish the resume and try to get your old job back........:icon_puke

 

[Marginal]

So - if I have a bill with my mother-in-law's name on it and use her address saying I am living there - they would accept that?

Well at that point, just explain you have been living in england living with her till you get your place but you would most likely need to be there for a week or so. Just so the IP registers. Also, marriage certificate just in case

 

[RamdeeBen]

I actually was thinking about this. Even if you are a European citizen or whatever are you sure the U.S haven't actually banned all their internet providers and I.P's from actually logging onto online poker cash games?

So for example say I went on holiday to America and took my laptop then tried playing from my own laptop obviously using some sort of American connection - would that be work, be allowed or would that also not be possible?

 

[dj11]

I actually was thinking about this. Even if you are a European citizen or whatever are you sure the U.S haven't actually banned all their internet providers and I.P's from actually logging onto online poker cash games? If they want to get super seriously ugly about it, the feds could block all traffic, even from other countries, that go thru Americannot routers. And this could affect Canadians and Latin American players.

So for example say I went on holiday to America and took my laptop then tried playing from my own laptop obviously using some sort of American connection - would that be work, be allowed or would that also not be possible?

Excellent Question........

Implications are for folks like Deb, who might still be using IP's in the US, even if in Europe. As u know, wherever you are, when you long in you are authenticated by whoever you pay for internet access. So at least one of the keys will be who you are paying for that access. Thus the want/need for maybe paying for access via a European IPV. But another factor will be your existing records (cc#'s, listed addresses, etc).

Seeing as this case is about integrity from the Sites POV, I have the feeling they will want to be able to prove that only the processing of payments is the issue, and will likely want to be on the safe side, and probably be a lot more scrutinizing about who is where.

Add this, it is very likely that the Feds are monitoring these threads, and probably have old useless spies, living abroad, trying all these workarounds, and reporting back.

So if you are able to get to the point where you can xfer funds, you need to move them to someone you trust, then set up a totally new account, new name etc. and then xfer the funds back.

Royal pain in the ass ,,,,yeah?

 

[katymaty]

Excellent Question........

Implications are for folks like Deb, who might still be using IP's in the US, even if in Europe. As u know, wherever you are, when you long in you are authenticated by whoever you pay for internet access. So at least one of the keys will be who you are paying for that access. Thus the want/need for maybe paying for access via a European IPV. But another factor will be your existing records (cc#'s, listed addresses, etc).

Seeing as this case is about integrity from the Sites POV, I have the feeling they will want to be able to prove that only the processing of payments is the issue, and will likely want to be on the safe side, and probably be a lot more scrutinizing about who is where.

Add this, it is very likely that the Feds are monitoring these threads, and probably have old useless spies, living abroad, trying all these workarounds, and reporting back.

So if you are able to get to the point where you can xfer funds, you need to move them to someone you trust, then set up a totally new account, new name etc. and then xfer the funds back.

Royal pain in the ass ,,,,yeah?

If in UK, lots of places have free wi fi zones where you just ask them for a code

 

[Brave_n_Crazy]

Now that the "ZOMG the sky is falling" panic has moved through my brain and I look more closely, several things occur to me.

1) I knew when I deposited money into poker accounts that I was doing so under a very grey legal cloud. I chose to deposit anyway. I think this applies to most US players.

2) The fact that sites were using third party processors at all sounded enough of a warning bell in my head to prevent me from making large deposits. The whole situation has screamed "play at your own risk" for years.

3) Getting a check for a poker cashout from a florist or pet-supply company should have made any sane person feel like they were a bit actor in an episode of The Sopranos. There's only one reason a check wouldn't just have the name of the processor, and that's because the transaction is not legal.

The bottom line is, we knew we were playing with fire and chose to open the marshmellows. Blaming the government for daring to enforce the law governing proper banking procedure just because it negatively affects us is, to borrow a phrase, results-oriented. If indeed those indicted did participate in the creation of shell companies in violation of Federal law, then they should be prosecuted just as they should be were they operating a chain of brothels or any other enterprise.

It seems people love to scream about corporations not paying their fair share of taxes and the shady things they do to avoid it, until the corporation is one that gives them something they want. You can't have it both ways. A kind criminal is still a criminal.

So, I will calmly continue playing the sites I can and become more active in the politics of getting online poker legalized.

 

[KerouacsDog]

Due to the ban on US players at pokerstars, the Sunday Million will now be renamed as the 'Sunday Thousand'........................