Building from a baby bankroll

W

willik1973

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Total posts
153
Awards
4
Chips
0
Great post, I do alot you talk about. I won a couple of freerolls over a 2 week period (55.00). I deciced to use patience and play the cash tables, but only .02/.04 blinds until I was able to build to 100.00, then I moved to the .05/.10 cash tables and so on. I do not play MTT tournaments unless the buy-in is 2% or less of my bankroll. It is a slow climb, but I have been able to make withdrawls without ever depositing. Here is some of my rules when playing,
1. Wife can not be around (she will bug the crap out of me)
2. T.V. must be turned off
3. Dog must be taken out prior to playing so I dont have to do it later
4. Cell phone turned to silence

With all these distractions out of the way, I have been able to play alot better and consistant.
Very useful tips, especially in the paragraph about his wife. In the game nothing should distract your attention, I on own experience was convinced. You also need to have willpower to lose a few monsters AA or KK when can clearly see a hand that beats yours, and profits is without a doubt.
 
C

CSully97

Rising Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 19, 2016
Total posts
17
Chips
0
great post man thanks a lot for the help
 
eberetta1

eberetta1

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Total posts
2,309
Awards
7
US
Chips
329
It never fails to happen. If you have to be somewhere at a certain time, and cannot run late, you will definitely have the best poker game you have had all month.
 
V

Valerio Rodrigues

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Total posts
61
Chips
0
We get a lot of discussion on here around what to do when you're trying to build a bankroll from a small amount. Maybe you've just had a freeroll cash, maybe a friend's been kind enough to transfer you a small amount or maybe you've deposited in the past and you've only got a few bucks left. How do we take that amount and turn it into a real bankroll?

What I've tried to do below is dump the bulk of my experience on the subject into one post. For those wondering about my credentials, I've been playing for the past couple of years on a roll built from freeroll cashes. I'll warn readers from the outset, I don't have any easy answers or shortcuts. But I think what's written here might be helpful in at least dispelling some of the myths and crazy ideas people have about undertaking this task and hopefully keep them on track while they're attempting it.

THERE IS NO MAGIC BULLET

There's loads of discussion on this point - time after time people have asked "What's the BEST game to play with a bankroll of (insert tiny amount here)?"

The truth is there IS no answer to that question. Everybody's different and we all have different strengths and weaknesses as players. I might have built a roll playing nothing but small stakes limit mixed games. Does that mean it's going to work for you? Dear gawd no! That'd be suicide for most people, since most people don't have the first clue how to play mixed games.

That's an extreme example, I know. It should be obvious to most people that if they suck at mixed games then they shouldn't be putting any of their baby bankroll on a mixed game table.

But there's other advice that sounds more reasonable but can be just as dangerous. How often have we heard, for example, that limit hold 'em is a great way to build a bankroll because it doesn't carry the risk of losing your whole stack in one hand like NLHE does? I know there's more than one lesson in the Full Tilt Academy that suggests it and it sounds perfectly reasonable, but guess what? If you suck at LHE, slowly but surely (and maybe not even that slowly) you're still going to lose your roll.

My point is, there is no magic bullet. There's no one game where everybody who plays it surely but steadily builds a roll. Far and away the best game to play is the one that YOU are best at. That might be LHE, it might be STTs, it might be $2NL 6-max. It doesn't matter. What matters is that YOU play YOUR best game, not someone else's.

I have an exeption to this rule regarding certain games NOT to play, BTW, which I'll discuss in a minute. But for the moment, let's move on to...

PICK A GAME AND STICK TO IT

Once you've settled on your best game, I'm recommending that you stick to it and play nothing else. A lot of people talk about how they played STTs for a little while and had some small wins, then they tried LHE for a while then lost the rest of their bankroll playing HU cash games.

There's a couple of reasons I think you should play just one game. The first is that we want to leverage our skill as best we can. It makes sense that our skill advantage will be biggest when we're playing our best game. The second reason is that we'll learn more when we concentrate on just one game. If we skip from game to game to game we won't be improving much at any of them because we won't be playing them for long enough. If we stick to one game not only are we maximising our skill edge, we're also maximising our chances to get better at the game, increase our skill edge and build our roll.

There'll be time for dabbling in mixed games and learning new things later, after we've built a stable roll.

YOU HAVE TO GET LUCKY

This is the bit that's going to hurt for some people. Even when we stick to just playing our best game, we're STILL going to need to get lucky in order to build our roll. By definition we've probably got less than good BRM dictates we should have to play in the lowest stakes games. If you're starting off with enough for just one buy in obviously you'll need to get very lucky - you'll need to win in the first game you play in and then keep winning in quite a number after that so that you've got some breathing room.

Even if you start off with, say, 10 or more buy ins though you'll still need a bit of luck to avoid a downswing that wipes out your roll. They happen all the time to players with full size rolls and there's nothing that says it can't happen to us either.

What I'm saying is remember that luck plays a part. Pick your best game and play your best. If you still wind up busto, don't dwell on it or let it get you down. Just pick yourself up, start over and hope for a little more luck next time.

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, STOP PLAYING MTTs!

Here's the bit where I'm going to contradict myself.

If I were to tell you I'd just made $10 from a freeroll and I was going to take it straight to a PLO cash game table to start trying to build a roll from it, how many people would think I was mad?

I think it might be more than a few. A select few of them will have prior knowledge of how much I suck at PLO. But others, even without that knowledge, would likely point out that the variance in PLO can be a killer and I'd be better off playing something with a more stable return. They'd probably be right too.

But here's the thing - a lot of those same people probably wouldn't bat an eyelid if I said I was going to take that $10 and play the Daily Dollar or something with it. Which is a funny thing, because as far as variance goes things don't really get much more swingy than multi-table tournaments. You certainly want a lot more than 20-30 buy ins to be rolled for them.

As discussed above, we already need to get very lucky to build a roll from nothing. We don't need to compound our problems by stacking variance against us - instead, we need to concentrate on games that offer us at least some chance of grinding a slow but steady path upwards. That usually means ring games or single-table SnGs and I'm recommending that, at least for the initial stages, you steer clear of MTTs and the horrible swings they bring. Even if you think they're your best game.

BE MILITANT AND CONSERVATIVE ABOUT BRM

In the beginning we're already going to be playing with bad BRM. There's not a lot we can do about it if we're not even rolled for the lowest stakes other than play our best and hope we run our roll up to a point where we ARE properly rolled for the level we're playing.

For that to happen though we have to be militant about the stakes we play. No playing in some random MTT or forum game or whatever, even as a one-off, unless we're rolled for it. Things like that are luxuries that we'll have later when we've built a stable roll.

We also need to be conservative with our bankroll. Most systems will tell you that if you've got 20-30 buy-ins for a given level you're rolled for it. I'm going to suggest you consider yourself "rolled" for a level when you've got 50 or more, that you don't move up in levels until you've got that much or more for the new level and that you move straight back down if you run bad at the new level. We worked hard to build that roll, we have to protect it as best we can from variance. Don't be ashamed of being a bankroll nit.

DON'T GET HUNG UP ON BONUSES

Free money is a beautiful thing. We all love it, and it's especially attractive when you don't have very much of it to start with.

Free money in the form of bonuses, however, usually comes with strings attached and those strings are almost always having to grind out x amount of frequent player points in real money games. Unlocked right, bonuses can be a fantastic way to pad your earnings and move your bankroll along faster. But done wrong they can send you hurtling backwards.

Take the recent Rush Week promo at Full Tilt. Anybody could participate, and to unlock the bronze level $10 bonus you had to grind out 10 FTPs a day on the Rush tables for seven days straight. Pretty sweet deal, right? Maybe, maybe not. If you're not rolled for the minimum $5NL that you'd need to play to earn the points, or if you're not any good at Rush, then taking this bonus on would be a terrible idea - chances are you'll end up losing more than you stood to win in bonuses and you might jeopardise your whole bankroll in the process.

The same goes for other things people consider doing to unlock other bonuses, like adding more tables than they're comfortable with to run points up faster or playing at higher stakes than they're rolled for. It's a slippery slope, I'm suggesting you just avoid it altogether.

As long as there's competition between online poker sites there'll be bonuses, so there's always another one somewhere around the corner. Stick with the plan, work through the bonuses that you can get safely by just and just playing your normal game at your normal limits and ignore the ones you can't get.

STOP TALKING AND START DOING
(OR "NOBODY ACTUALLY READS YOUR BLOG ANYWAY SO WHY STRESS YOURSELF")

Sometimes I don't know whether to laugh or cry. We've all seen it - someone comes along on a board or starts a blog talking a whole lot about how they're going to build a roll from nothing or how they've got this freeroll cash and they're going to run it up and make loads of money. Some of the dedicated ones even give us day by day or game by game updates for a short period... until the inevitable post where they tell us they're busto either because they played bad, they didn't follow BRM, they had to withdraw all their money for some inane reason or, my personal favourite, the donks ate their bankroll.

Save yourself the time and embarassment by talking less and DOING more. Use the time to actually review your games, rather than telling the world about every single bad beat you ever get. Post actual problem hands for analysis and ask meaningful questions that might help you improve your game, rather than telling everyone about every tiny fluctuation in your bankroll.

You're also putting unnecessary pressure on yourself. Chances are somewhere in the back of your mind there's a though along the lines of "What will I be telling my readers after this session?" and that can have an adverse effect on your game. So stop talking and start doing instead.

That's it, for the moment at least. Run good y'all.

Thanks for the post, we need to start growing our game .
 
VizziVizo

VizziVizo

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 18, 2014
Total posts
917
Chips
0
Nice post, very useful post for most of players
 
L

lomitme

Rising Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
Total posts
16
Chips
0
This was very useful for me, thanks to who posted!
 
B

b0zzman

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Jan 25, 2015
Total posts
14
Chips
0
Stickin to my grind

Gross night last night so I bailed early. Ran my pocket j's into aces in the card room freeroll and had a tough time in an array of betonline. I did manage to scrounge up about 1.80 with a min cash and a final table finish in 2 0f them.
Still no added funds to ACR for me but lookin forward to the a freeroll there tonight. I really want to work up a small bankroll there so I can start getting in on the league play with everyone.
Im not too discouraged yet. Although I didnt participate last night, I did manage to take down the first two tournaments in a private league and run deep in the third for a fourth place finish. Its helped to build a small bankroll in the card room with the site so Ill be able to play there for a good while without worry of busting.
Back to the grind I go. Ill never give it back if i dont keep playing
 
F

FlyingFitz

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 14, 2016
Total posts
69
Chips
0
awesome post

Lots to take in - great post
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Mar 19, 2016
Total posts
1,536
Awards
1
Chips
0
I understand that buying in for less than the max buyin is a disadvantage, but would it be worth that disadvantage if you're underrolled.

Say for example. I have $300 to invest in poker every 2 weeks. And the only card room around has lowest stakes game of 1/3NLHE (max buy in of $300) Would I be better off buying in with 100$ and triple my number of buyins which would give me a lesser disadvantage against variance, or would I be better off buying in for $300 which would give me a lesser disadvantage against big stack bullies?
 
T

titomurcia1214

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 6, 2014
Total posts
75
Chips
0
The fact is that the battle both freeroll and get so hard a few dollars, it becomes very difficult to change play for free admission to money, the objective would be to gamble and played with faith the mtt tournament or sng that takes your fancy and fun to play .....; Great post btw
 
K

Kaosrp

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 12, 2016
Total posts
29
Chips
0
Thanks a lot for this post, it is very good guige for someone like me who is trying to build a bankroll from freerolls. I know that I'm just beginning, but I'm working hard to be a professinal poker player some day. Thanks a lot again!
 
R

RunVovkaRun

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 16, 2016
Total posts
29
Chips
0
i am just starting a bankroll and thats what i am doing small cash games with most of it and will try one or two small tourneys
 
korneel

korneel

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 28, 2016
Total posts
1,318
Chips
0
Thank you
I've been struggling alot with building a bankroll.
 
meagain00

meagain00

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Aug 24, 2015
Total posts
1,351
Awards
6
BR
Chips
75
Really nice post! Let's practice!

meagain00
 
proud2Bwhack

proud2Bwhack

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Total posts
333
Chips
0
Just a couple things to add.

Playing on Friday and Saturday nights is a very good idea. All the fish are out swimming in force, all you have to do is be patient. Sun thru Thursday is more of a time for regulars who dont shove with K-9u as much!!

Also, I remember back in the day, Jesus Ferguson started from scratch on Full Tilt and had a 10k bankroll in a year. After his first freeroll score, he just looked for the sloppiest cash game he could find at the 2-5 cent level. What surprised me was he was only at like $11 when he played a MTT! He suffered bad beats in 10-25cent cash games just like anyone else. He did say the key was being very picky about what table he sat at, and who was sitting to his left. Money always goes to the left...
 
B

Brian11580

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Total posts
49
Chips
0
the frs are are too hit the 10 dollar ones ppl call ne two cards. its like that in cash too I understand
 
D

Dan Lucas

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 18, 2016
Total posts
475
Chips
0
Building Bankroll from small start

I am new to forums, but having read many of the previous messages, I have yet to see if anyone recommended making player notes, especially if you are playing same limits and seeing many of the same players. If you are relatively new and are looking to build a bankroll. I find it may help to establish patterns of play by certain players and recognize potentially profitable situations.
 
polo kwan

polo kwan

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 19, 2016
Total posts
121
Chips
0
Any strategy on starting a bankroll without deposit?

is it good to start at get the ticket in PS pokerschool?

or just get stick on CC. hahahaha

its sick dat cannot deposit on PS in HongKong...
 
R

RunVovkaRun

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 16, 2016
Total posts
29
Chips
0
Good Day all members! It is a very interesting post. In my opinion, if you need to play poker well, you must to win some freerolls, than you can try to be in cash on MTT. And only after this, I think, you can go to the cash games!
 
L

LostChild84

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 19, 2016
Total posts
7
Chips
0
Admirer

I like your post mang! My style of poker is no style holdem. Fold them winners, hold them losers........???
 
Bankroll Building - Bankroll Management
Top