Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

[rhombus]

Butchered/Overplayed/Overvalued all 3

maybe check call River unless they shoved, as once they called turn bet they have set/made flush two pair and im only beating KQ, KJ, QQ JJ, Pair and flush draw
or possibly check turn and bet River

[converted_hand][hand_history]poker stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $21.13 (211.3 bb)
BB: $10.90 (109 bb)
Hero (MP): $9.70 (97 bb)
CO: $13.30 (133 bb)
BTN: $12.70 (127 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A:diamond: K:club:
Hero raises to $0.30, CO calls $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, 2 folds

Flop: ($1.05) T:diamond: 6:diamond: K:diamond: (3 players)
Hero bets $0.70, CO calls $0.70, BTN folds

Turn: ($2.45) 7:heart: (2 players)
Hero bets $2.34, CO calls $2.34

River: ($7.13) 7:spade: (2 players)
Hero bets $6.36 and is all-in, CO calls $6.36

Spoiler

Results: $19.85 pot ($0.89 rake)
Final Board: T:diamond: 6:diamond: K:diamond: 7:heart: 7:spade:
Hero showed A:diamond: K:club: and lost (-$9.70 net)
CO showed 6:spade: 6:club: and won $18.96 ($9.26 net)

[/hand_history][/converted_hand]

 

[rhombus]

River Easy Fold ?? Villain 48/26 Agg38%
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): $10.52 (105.2 bb)
BB: $7.62 (76.2 bb)
UTG: $22 (220 bb)
MP: $10 (100 bb)
CO: $15.59 (155.9 bb)
BTN: $20.91 (209.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J

J

UTG raises to $0.20, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.80, BB folds, UTG calls $0.60

Flop: ($1.70) 3

6

5

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.10, UTG calls $1.10

Turn: ($3.90) 5

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks

River: ($3.90) Q

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $2.40, Hero calls $2.40

Results:

Spoiler

$8.70 pot ($0.39 rake)
Final Board: 3

6

5

5

Q

Hero mucked J

J

and lost (-$4.30 net)
UTG showed 8

A

and won $8.31 ($4.01 net)

 

[Gorak]

@rhombus

This is what I see almost every time I get resistance from villain. When I start to play cash again, I'll experiment folding when villain resists and then fires back at me.

 

[rhombus]

@rhombus

This is what I see almost every time I get resistance from villain. When I start to play cash again, I'll experiment folding when villain resists and then fires back at me.

only problem with foldng against resistance it makes you so exploitable especially at higher levels

Maybe at this level they tend to have the hand they are representing

 

[Gorak]

only problem with foldng against resistance it makes you so exploitable especially at higher levels

One level at a time. I don't think we can play anticipating getting exploited at higher stakes.

 

[rhombus]

One level at a time. I don't think we can play anticipating getting exploited at higher stakes.

very true but this game can make you so paranoid at times lol. especially when ur running bad and constantly running into the top of their ranges or they constantly float and fire out when you show weakness.

Maybe need to balance more and Pot control OOP and bluff catch pay more attention to stats to fire more and fold to aggression from passives

 

[Figaroo2]

Maybe need to balance more and Pot control OOP and bluff catch pay more attention to stats to fire more and fold to aggression from passives

Yes you need to play to the player type and make it situational. it is difficult to comment on these hands as you haven't posted the villains stats and we have seen the result as well.
In the first hand I would have checked the turn for pot control and to try and hit the flush with a free card. But it depends on the player type..I might fire again if its a fish.
2nd hand yes I agree it's a fold.

 

[Figaroo2]

Talking of sick hands.. I hate folding these...what do we think?

1st .a good fold or not?...I don't lay these down very often
2nd hand...just played it too passive how can we improve here....2nd barrel?


Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $67.91 (271.6 bb)
BB: $25 (100 bb)
UTG+2: $24.40 (97.6 bb)
MP1: $15.66 (62.6 bb)
MP2: $24.75 (99 bb) I only have 6 hands on the villain...
Hero (MP3): $25 (100 bb)
CO: $10.78 (43.1 bb)
BTN: $12.44 (49.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A:spade: A:heart:
2 folds, MP2 raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $2.60, 4 folds, MP2 calls $1.85

Flop: ($5.55) J:heart: 7:club: T:diamond: (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $3.97, MP2 calls $3.97

Turn: ($13.49) A:diamond: (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks !?

River: ($13.49) Q:club: (2 players)
MP2 bets $6.50, Hero folds I'm getting three to one here but it just so obviously is a king.
Results: $13.49 pot ($0.61 rake)
Final Board: J:heart: 7:club: T:diamond: A:diamond: Q:club:
MP2 mucked and won $12.88 ($6.31 net)
Hero mucked A:spade: A:heart: and lost (-$6.57 net)

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

SB: $25 (100 bb)
BB: $31.34 (125.4 bb)
UTG: $34.34 (137.4 bb)
MP: $9.90 (39.6 bb)
Hero (CO): $26.56 (106.2 bb)
BTN: $25 (100 bb) decent reg villian here 19/13/29 329 hands... i noted he only goes to showdown 20%

Preflop: Hero is CO with K:spade: K:heart:
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, BTN calls $0.75, SB folds, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.35) 8:club: 8:heart: 6:diamond: (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.68, BTN calls $1.68, BB folds

Turn: ($5.71) 3:diamond: (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $3.75, Hero calls $3.75

River: ($13.21) 7:heart: (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $10.50, Hero folds I was much more tempted to call this one, what can he have here 98, 9T? He isn't agg on the river so i gave him the benefit

Results: $13.21 pot ($0.59 rake)
Final Board: 8:club: 8:heart: 6:diamond: 3:diamond: 7:heart:
Hero mucked K:spade: K:heart: and lost (-$6.18 net)
BTN mucked and won $12.62 ($6.44 net)

 

[John A]

Butchered/Overplayed/Overvalued all 3

maybe check call River unless they shoved, as once they called turn bet they have set/made flush two pair and im only beating KQ, KJ, QQ JJ, Pair and flush draw
or possibly check turn and bet River

[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $21.13 (211.3 bb)
BB: $10.90 (109 bb)
Hero (MP): $9.70 (97 bb)
CO: $13.30 (133 bb)
BTN: $12.70 (127 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A♦ K♣
Hero raises to $0.30, CO calls $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, 2 folds

Flop: ($1.05) T♦ 6♦ K♦ (3 players)
Hero bets $0.70, CO calls $0.70, BTN folds

Turn: ($2.45) 7♥ (2 players)
Hero bets $2.34, CO calls $2.34

River: ($7.13) 7♠ (2 players)
Hero bets $6.36 and is all-in, CO calls $6.36

Spoiler

Results: $19.85 pot ($0.89 rake)
Final Board: T♦ 6♦ K♦ 7♥ 7♠
Hero showed A♦ K♣ and lost (-$9.70 net)
CO showed 6♠ 6♣ and won $18.96 ($9.26 net)

[/hand_history][/converted_hand]

I think it's ok really. You could bet slightly less on turn and then value bet river a little smaller, but in this specific case it's not going to change much. The only thing you accomplish by doing that is keep more of their weaker range in, ie JJ/QQ, etc...

 

[John A]

River Easy Fold ?? Villain 48/26 Agg38%
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): $10.52 (105.2 bb)
BB: $7.62 (76.2 bb)
UTG: $22 (220 bb)
MP: $10 (100 bb)
CO: $15.59 (155.9 bb)
BTN: $20.91 (209.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J

J

UTG raises to $0.20, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.80, BB folds, UTG calls $0.60

Flop: ($1.70) 3

6

5

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.10, UTG calls $1.10

Turn: ($3.90) 5

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks

River: ($3.90) Q

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $2.40, Hero calls $2.40

Results:

Spoiler

$8.70 pot ($0.39 rake)
Final Board: 3

6

5

5

Q

Hero mucked J

J

and lost (-$4.30 net)
UTG showed 8

A

and won $8.31 ($4.01 net)

Nh... well played.

So when you post these kinds of hands, what's the primary issue for you? You don't think anyone is bluffing here on the river at these stakes so you should be check/folding. You're right when you get raises and extra pressure at these stakes, your opponents will have a hand more often then at higher stakes. You have to ask yourself, will my opponents bluff more than 27% of the time here? My guess is, yes... but you should also be looking at your database, and checking this information for yourself.

 

[rhombus]

Yes you need to play to the player type and make it situational. it is difficult to comment on these hands as you haven't posted the villains stats and we have seen the result as well.
.

Is it possible to post hands and stats at the same time.

Currently as suggested by John I right click and select view then click on copy to clipboard as its clearer to see the hands as opposed to right click on the hand then select copy with stats which isnt as clear but does show all the stats.

Or do you paste the hand then add stas from the replayer after ??

 

[rhombus]

Nh... well played.

So when you post these kinds of hands, what's the primary issue for you? You don't think anyone is bluffing here on the river at these stakes so you should be check/folding. You're right when you get raises and extra pressure at these stakes, your opponents will have a hand more often then at higher stakes. You have to ask yourself, will my opponents bluff more than 27% of the time here? My guess is, yes... but you should also be looking at your database, and checking this information for yourself.

Primary issue is whether im getting owned all the time

As for the database part i wasnt sure how to do the filters for it

 

[rhombus]

ok just tried to do some filters

out of 30K hands $10 and $25 then Flat call River(River Call = True) not very conclusive
top screen is the 30K hands
middle screen is FLat call River(River Call =true)
bottom screen is combo actions saw river saw showdown which i guess covers the 1st option and also when i value bet and they called

 

[rhombus]

just found another filter in the advanced part when it says Bet Raise Call for River Actions (RiverAction BRC)
only 4 hands out of 30K does that seem right, at keast i learned about filters and that BRC I lost 4 out of 4

 

[Figaroo2]

QUOTE=rhombus Primary issue is whether im getting owned all the time :

Despite working on my game constantly I seem to have stalled over the last 2 months..and am struggling to hold breakeven at the moment in cash games.Things seemed to have toughened up recently especially on Pstars. Combine that with some runbad and it gets very frustrating.
So you are not alone in feeling like this Rhom.
I am in the middle of a review for 2014 and am going to set up my own thread to keep focused.
Re the hand posts yes I've just been going back to the replayer and picking up the stats from there. Please feel free to feedback on my hand posts as im not getting any response on my last four or five and quite often im just looking for reassurance that im doing the right thing.
Happy Chrismas everyone.

 

[John A]

just found another filter in the advanced part when it says Bet Raise Call for River Actions (RiverAction BRC)
only 4 hands out of 30K does that seem right, at keast i learned about filters and that BRC I lost 4 out of 4

I'd look more at BRC filters on the flop and turn (when you have TPTK+). Those are the ones you want to look at, but you need to consider what you invested in the hand. Meaning, if you c-bet 4bb's on the flop, get raised and then call. If you just folded, you're losing -400 bb/100 in the hand. So if you lose less then that, then you're playing the hand better than the expected loss.

We've posted many filters in here before and we've gone over them. I'll see maybe after the holidays here we can go over some of these, and post up links to download them. FYI, these are also in leak buster if you have it, you can just run them all at once.

 

[John A]

QUOTE=rhombus Primary issue is whether im getting owned all the time :

Despite working on my game constantly I seem to have stalled over the last 2 months..and am struggling to hold breakeven at the moment in cash games.Things seemed to have toughened up recently especially on Pokerstars. Combine that with some runbad and it gets very frustrating.
So you are not alone in feeling like this Rhom.
I am in the middle of a review for 2014 and am going to set up my own thread to keep focused.
Re the hand posts yes I've just been going back to the replayer and picking up the stats from there. Please feel free to feedback on my hand posts as im not getting any response on my last four or five and quite often im just looking for reassurance that im doing the right thing.
Happy Chrismas everyone.

We'll be renewing some of our lessons. We'll have the workbook out, and we'll dive into lots of important examples. Keep in mind, the games are getting tougher. They are for me as well. It's just part of what's happening online as the fish get more scarce, and the regulars are more educated.

Merry Christmas!

 

[rhombus]

QUOTE=rhombus Primary issue is whether im getting owned all the time :

Despite working on my game constantly I seem to have stalled over the last 2 months..and am struggling to hold breakeven at the moment in cash games.Things seemed to have toughened up recently especially on Pokerstars. Combine that with some runbad and it gets very frustrating.
So you are not alone in feeling like this Rhom.
I am in the middle of a review for 2014 and am going to set up my own thread to keep focused.
Re the hand posts yes I've just been going back to the replayer and picking up the stats from there. Please feel free to feedback on my hand posts as im not getting any response on my last four or five and quite often im just looking for reassurance that im doing the right thing.
Happy Chrismas everyone.

Merry christmas to you too .

Mine's a vicious circle of run bad play bad tilt bad run bad etc

although easy to analyse when you run bad you play hands you wouldnt normally play so end up in lots more difficult situations and lose even more!!

Also I need to study more and stop being so god damn lazy

2 hands you posted above
AA

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $67.91 (271.6 bb)
BB: $25 (100 bb)
UTG+2: $24.40 (97.6 bb)
MP1: $15.66 (62.6 bb)
MP2: $24.75 (99 bb) I only have 6 hands on the villain...
Hero (MP3): $25 (100 bb)
CO: $10.78 (43.1 bb)
BTN: $12.44 (49.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A♠ A♥
2 folds, MP2 raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $2.60, 4 folds, MP2 calls $1.85

Flop: ($5.55) J♥ 7♣ T♦ (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $3.97, MP2 calls $3.97

Turn: ($13.49) A♦ (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks !?

River: ($13.49) Q♣ (2 players)
MP2 bets $6.50, Hero folds

Bad flop smashes their calling range, and as its only a single rasied pot going to difficut to get lots of value as you will either win small pot or lose big one unless you are playing against a maniac!!!!

Easy to play against passives just bet and wait for them to raise against aggro players difficult to get value and better to pot control, as played easy fold as you said so many Kings in their calling range especially KQ and flopped sets 7s Ts or Js that they didnt want to get AIPF

2nd Hand KK
Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

SB: $25 (100 bb)
BB: $31.34 (125.4 bb)
UTG: $34.34 (137.4 bb)
MP: $9.90 (39.6 bb)
Hero (CO): $26.56 (106.2 bb)
BTN: $25 (100 bb) decent reg villian here 19/13/29 329 hands... i noted he only goes to showdown 20%

Preflop: Hero is CO with K♠ K♥
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, BTN calls $0.75, SB folds, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.35) 8♣ 8♥ 6♦ (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.68, BTN calls $1.68, BB folds

Turn: ($5.71) 3♦ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $3.75, Hero calls $3.75

River: ($13.21) 7♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $10.50, Hero folds

Big bet on the river but not as sure as the AA hand whether to call or Fold

Could have an 8, flopped house with 66, Id rule out 9T, they might float the flop with it but unlikely to lead turn.

The only hands you are beating are 99-QQ which they think they are value betting or possibly a hand like A9 diamonds which they decided to float the flop, lead the turn and blast out when River unlikely to have hit you. Im 60/40 about Folding vs calling, then cry when he turns over 77

 

[rhombus]

I'd look more at BRC filters on the flop and turn (when you have TPTK+). Those are the ones you want to look at, but you need to consider what you invested in the hand. Meaning, if you c-bet 4bb's on the flop, get raised and then call. If you just folded, you're losing -400 bb/100 in the hand. So if you lose less then that, then you're playing the hand better than the expected loss.

We've posted many filters in here before and we've gone over them. I'll see maybe after the holidays here we can go over some of these, and post up links to download them. FYI, these are also in leak buster if you have it, you can just run them all at once.

OK thanks for the insight and valuable advice as always

 

[rhombus]

still unsure abiout Leakbuster as just ran for last 30K hands and i get A- even though i have 35 leaks and 37 potential leaks

 

[John A]

Your second hand w/ KK, Not sure why you didn't bet river or c/c. But any ways, what are you unsure about with Leak Buster? 30k sample, you have some leaks. Keep in mind it's looking at somewhere over 480+ potential leaks. Let's go through the ones you do have an discuss how they are impacting your game. You have 4 critical ones. We can break those down and look at some of those hands.

 

[rhombus]

Your second hand w/ KK, Not sure why you didn't bet river or c/c. But any ways, what are you unsure about with Leak Buster? 30k sample, you have some leaks. Keep in mind it's looking at somewhere over 480+ potential leaks. Let's go through the ones you do have an discuss how they are impacting your game. You have 4 critical ones. We can break those down and look at some of those hands.

I was confused by having A- with alot of leaks

You mentioned 480+ leaks is that with the professional version, on the one I have it says 460

Below are the 4 critical Leaks that it showed up

 

[John A]

I was confused by having A- with alot of leaks

You mentioned 480+ leaks is that with the professional version, on the one I have it says 460

Below are the 4 critical Leaks that it showed up

Either way, it's a clear themed top 4 leaks. It's a lot of check/call scenarios which generally are money bleeders in a game like no-limit. I'd go over those top ones, and try and figure out how you can start shifting it so you are betting these hands or check / folding. You want to have initiative, set the price of what you're doing, and increase your fold equity. You can't have any fold equity if you are checking so much. :ridinghor

 

[Figaroo2]

This one cheered my soul...weekend fish

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $30.86 (123.4 bb)
BB: $14.75 (59 bb) (yummy fish)
Hero (UTG+2): $32.35 (129.4 bb)
MP1: $8.33 (33.3 bb)
MP2: $27.86 (111.4 bb)
MP3: $20 (80 bb) nutball
CO: $25 (100 bb)
BTN: $25 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A:spade: A:club:
Hero calls $0.25, (played this for the nutball) 2 folds, MP3 raises to $0.75, 3 folds, BB calls $0.50, Hero raises to $3.10, MP3 calls $2.35, BB calls $2.35

Flop: ($9.40) 4:spade: Q:diamond: A:diamond: (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4.49, MP3 raises to $16.90 and is all-in, BB calls $11.65 and is all-in, Hero calls $12.41

Turn: ($54.85) 3:heart: (3 players, 2 are all-in)
River: ($54.85) T:spade: (3 players, 2 are all-in)

[spoil]Results: $54.85 pot ($2.00 rake)
Final Board: 4:spade: Q:diamond: A:diamond: 3:heart: T:spade:
BB showed 9:heart: 4:heart: and lost (-$14.75 net)
Hero showed A:spade: A:club: and won $52.85 ($32.85 net)
MP3 showed A:heart: Q:club: and lost (-$20 net)

 

[Figaroo2]

Difficult river bet sizing decision...any suggestions?

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

Hero (SB): $26.05 (104.2 bb)
BB: $9.44 (37.8 bb)
UTG+1: $26.62 (106.5 bb)
UTG+2: $46.74 (187 bb)
MP1: $25 (100 bb) 11/10/30 in 81 ROCK.. WTSD when saw flop 0%
MP2: $25 (100 bb)
MP3: $25 (100 bb)
CO: $31.11 (124.4 bb)
BTN: $22.11 (88.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5:diamond: 5:spade:
2 folds, MP1 raises to $0.75, 4 folds, Hero calls $0.65, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.25) J:heart: K:club: 6:club: (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 checks

Turn: ($2.25) 5:club: (3 players)
Hero bets $1.61, BB folds, MP1 raises to $5, Hero calls $3.39

River: ($12.25) K:diamond: (2 players)
Hero bets ??
The king appears to be a good card for my hand as I'm now obviously beating any flush.
He could easily have a king and a hard hand to put down, do we go half pot and try to induce a shove, value bet 75-100% or simply overbet shove? Should we just ignore the wtsd =0 on a relatively small sample or do we factor this in.
I also now note his river agg is 50%, it looks like he hasn't got to showdown as he has bet the river and got folds.