F
fishyfishh
Rising Star
Silver Level
j4 is never a good idea. unless its v small blinds in a small blind or low risk situation
j4 is never a good idea. unless its v small blinds in a small blind or low risk situation
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rhombus
Legend
Silver Level
sticks and stones may break my bones
Sorry didn't read your reply properly and thought you said play J4s.
So whats the min suited to call with from late position opener - 78s, T8, J8 and occasionally 3bet with them
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rhombus
Legend
Silver Level
Seem to be getting 3Bet so often recently and really struggling what to call/4bet in and out of position, think its becoming a massive leak.
Just Ran a filter on all hands when I call 3Bet and it aint good
top pic is all hands where I called a 3Bet, 2nd pic is in position and 3rd OOP
Just Ran a filter on all hands when I call 3Bet and it aint good
top pic is all hands where I called a 3Bet, 2nd pic is in position and 3rd OOP
Attachments
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Yup and the fekker had 33
And that's why we don't play J4. Eventually you'll learn. This seems like such an easy habit to get out of. Of all of the leaks. Maybe if you're getting bored or something, add more tables, that way you'll have to focus on playing quality hands more.
Figaroo2
Legend
Bronze Level
Feedback please
Ok I posted this in my thread but I'd welcome some more feedback please.
Particularly on the best way to play the flop and as whether we fold on the end.
I think its close so am I right in thinking it can't be a massive mistake either way?
I do consider this guy fishy enough to have called with all pairs on the flop and some KQ more likely suited.
poker stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
SB: $21.06 (84.2 bb)
BB: $49.44 (197.8 bb) VPIP: 25, PFR: 8, 3B: 10, AF: 2.1, Hands: 110
UTG+2: $30.16 (120.6 bb)
MP1: $28.50 (114 bb)
MP2: $25 (100 bb)
Hero (MP3): $25 (100 bb)
CO: $25.35 (101.4 bb)
BTN: $25 (100 bb)
Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A♠ K♠
2 folds, MP2 raises to $0.55, Hero raises to $1.75, 3 folds, BB calls $1.50, MP2 calls $1.20
Flop: ($5.35) J♥ A♣ 3♠ (3 players)
BB bets $5.11, MP2 folds, Hero calls $5.11
Turn: ($15.57) T♠ (2 players)
BB bets $16.35, Hero ?
I think the shove comes from this range which gives us 40% ish equity and we are going to get 2-1 on the call. If we take out AQs it falls to 35%, if we add in all AQ we get up to 50%
Ok I posted this in my thread but I'd welcome some more feedback please.
Particularly on the best way to play the flop and as whether we fold on the end.
I think its close so am I right in thinking it can't be a massive mistake either way?
I do consider this guy fishy enough to have called with all pairs on the flop and some KQ more likely suited.
poker stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
SB: $21.06 (84.2 bb)
BB: $49.44 (197.8 bb) VPIP: 25, PFR: 8, 3B: 10, AF: 2.1, Hands: 110
UTG+2: $30.16 (120.6 bb)
MP1: $28.50 (114 bb)
MP2: $25 (100 bb)
Hero (MP3): $25 (100 bb)
CO: $25.35 (101.4 bb)
BTN: $25 (100 bb)
Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A♠ K♠
2 folds, MP2 raises to $0.55, Hero raises to $1.75, 3 folds, BB calls $1.50, MP2 calls $1.20
Flop: ($5.35) J♥ A♣ 3♠ (3 players)
BB bets $5.11, MP2 folds, Hero calls $5.11
Turn: ($15.57) T♠ (2 players)
BB bets $16.35, Hero ?
I think the shove comes from this range which gives us 40% ish equity and we are going to get 2-1 on the call. If we take out AQs it falls to 35%, if we add in all AQ we get up to 50%
Attachments
S
seventhsense
Rock Star
Silver Level
This is a really ugly spot. I'm interested to see what John thinks. Personally I would fold the flop, the pot size bet is usually a nut hand or spazzing. This player looks too passive to spaz.
I think he has AJ/JJ so often here that even calling the flop is not worth it.
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Not loving the spot, and seems strange that with him being OOP on a dry flop he'd bet MW when you have another person and the pre-flop raiser still left to act. Odd action, but I'm not folding the flop ever, but the turn pot really changes up his range to heavily weight into JJ/KQ. Maybe he doesn't 4-bet much even though he has a high 3-bet% (small sample), so maybe you're free rolling a decent percentage here. It would be so bad to cold call AJ pre here, so I'd expect to see AK/JJ/KQ more often than anything. Those hands make the most sense, but the pot sized turn then weights it more to JJ/KQ. I don't think you see AQ here often enough and I assume players at this level aren't trying to turn those hands into bluffs often enough. So I don't think you have enough equity to call it off on the turn. It's close though, and not a huge leak to get it in here, but I think the correct play is folding the turn.
Really strange that you'd bet that large on the turn if you had JJ though also. That makes it less likely your opponent has top 2, and is he going to call it off w/ AK/AQ here? But he probably isn't even a level 2 thinker.
Figaroo2
Legend
Bronze Level
Yeah I read it pretty much the same way. It is very polarised to nuts or air. The hand makes little sense either way but makes more sense to me as a bluff on the flop with KQ and then a big value bet when he gets there. I'm hating his pre-flop flat with that hand though. JJ makes more sense pre-flop.
I did fold here I just figured he was a fish who couldn't wait to get it in with JJ, but I was sorely tempted to gamble here just to see what he's doing.
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Yeah, I think you made a good fold. Strange line to take w/ anything but KQ though. MW on a dry board, let it check through if you have a set. You're crushing everyone's range.
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Here's the hand, situation I was talking about Fig. Short video on hand reading and bluffing
https://youtu.be/Z-jKagcqRgQ
https://www.youtube.com/embed/Z-jKagcqRgQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-jKagcqRgQ&feature=youtu.be
Ugh... why do I have so much trouble embedding youtube videos on this site. Always ends up driving me nuts. This is a really simple code fix CC if you want me to do it for you? ? All of those links should just auto embed.
https://youtu.be/Z-jKagcqRgQ
https://www.youtube.com/embed/Z-jKagcqRgQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-jKagcqRgQ&feature=youtu.be
Ugh... why do I have so much trouble embedding youtube videos on this site. Always ends up driving me nuts. This is a really simple code fix CC if you want me to do it for you? ? All of those links should just auto embed.
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TimovieMan
Legend
Silver Level
They do:
[ame=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-jKagcqRgQ]Finding profitable poker bluffs and hand reading w/ DriveHUD[/ame]
Just add it like a regular link with the [ url= ] description [ /url ] BBcode.
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
hey, no one likes a smart ass Tim... hehe
Yeah, most vbulletin boards auto mod this. If you put in a youtube video it just recognizes the URL and places it in youtube format. I keep forgetting you need to click their URL icon and then place it.
heheYeah, most vbulletin boards auto mod this. If you put in a youtube video it just recognizes the URL and places it in youtube format. I keep forgetting you need to click their URL icon and then place it.
Figaroo2
Legend
Bronze Level
Thanks John. The hand reading and reasons for checking betting seem fairly straightforward and I'm reasonably strong in this area.
The key for me is identifying the cards on the river that are the best for bluffing.
Usually even if a brick comes then I will still go peek at wtsd and if it is 22 or below I will sometimes bluff if I have no showdown value.
I will dig out some similar spots.
Figaroo2
Legend
Bronze Level
Simple example talking advantage of the runout
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
SB: $15.29 (152.9 bb)
BB: $11.01 (110.1 bb) VPIP: 15, PFR: 5, 3B: 3, AF: 1.4, Hands: 394
UTG+2: $10.40 (104 bb)
Hero (MP1): $10 (100 bb)
MP2: $17.14 (171.4 bb)
MP3: $7.01 (70.1 bb)
CO: $12.68 (126.8 bb)
BTN: $11.93 (119.3 bb)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 3:heart: 3:club:
UTG+2 folds, Hero raises to $0.20, 5 folds, BB raises to $0.65, Hero calls $0.45
Often I would fold here but this player looks pretty weak and we are in position
Flop: ($1.35) 9:spade: K:diamond: Q:diamond: (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks
Ok he doesn't like the flop JJ TT AJ AT AQ look most likely
Turn: ($1.35) 5:diamond: (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.64, BB calls $0.64
Well if he checks twice I'm definitely betting, I would have check called up to half pot here, looking to bluff suitable runouts.
He's going to call at least once with say JJ TT which have a gutshot.
Best bluffing cards definitely diamonds but I'm thinking another K, Q, or 9 would also be good.
River: ($2.63) 8:diamond: (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.88, BB folds
reasonably large sizing, I don't want him looking me up with AQ here.
Results: $2.63 pot ($0.12 rake)
Final Board: 9:spade: K:diamond: Q:diamond: 5:diamond: 8:diamond:
BB mucked and lost (-$1.29 net)
Hero mucked 3:heart: 3:club: and won $2.51 ($1.22 net)
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
SB: $15.29 (152.9 bb)
BB: $11.01 (110.1 bb) VPIP: 15, PFR: 5, 3B: 3, AF: 1.4, Hands: 394
UTG+2: $10.40 (104 bb)
Hero (MP1): $10 (100 bb)
MP2: $17.14 (171.4 bb)
MP3: $7.01 (70.1 bb)
CO: $12.68 (126.8 bb)
BTN: $11.93 (119.3 bb)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 3:heart: 3:club:
UTG+2 folds, Hero raises to $0.20, 5 folds, BB raises to $0.65, Hero calls $0.45
Often I would fold here but this player looks pretty weak and we are in position
Flop: ($1.35) 9:spade: K:diamond: Q:diamond: (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks
Ok he doesn't like the flop JJ TT AJ AT AQ look most likely
Turn: ($1.35) 5:diamond: (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.64, BB calls $0.64
Well if he checks twice I'm definitely betting, I would have check called up to half pot here, looking to bluff suitable runouts.
He's going to call at least once with say JJ TT which have a gutshot.
Best bluffing cards definitely diamonds but I'm thinking another K, Q, or 9 would also be good.
River: ($2.63) 8:diamond: (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.88, BB folds
reasonably large sizing, I don't want him looking me up with AQ here.
Results: $2.63 pot ($0.12 rake)
Final Board: 9:spade: K:diamond: Q:diamond: 5:diamond: 8:diamond:
BB mucked and lost (-$1.29 net)
Hero mucked 3:heart: 3:club: and won $2.51 ($1.22 net)
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vinylspiros
PIRANHA-------->< (((º>
Silver Level
does sizing even matter, if he is going to call? i mean couldnt you have gotten the same result with a smaller bet and also saved a penny or two if he called?
Figaroo2
Legend
Bronze Level
Not a pure bluff hand but I was filtering for hands where I'd called a 3 bet and then bet the river.
Should we just take control and lead on the turn here? For value and to charge if he has the A,Q or T of spades.
Or is it better letting a fairly aggressive player like this have a stab.
When a player of this aggression level checks this flop I immediately put him on a weak polarised A rag type hand range probably without a spade.
And this is betting for value on the end, although I'm not sure what worse is calling here with my sizing.
If I don't bet though, we give him another chance to bluff which might be a difficult call if he goes big enough.
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
SB: $10 (100 bb)
BB: $9.60 (96 bb)
UTG+2: $12.97 (129.7 bb)
MP1: $12.33 (123.3 bb)
MP2: $10.52 (105.2 bb)
Hero (MP3): $16.56 (165.6 bb)
CO: $10 (100 bb) VPIP: 16, PFR: 15, 3B: 5, AF: 3.8, Hands: 129
BTN: $15.57 (155.7 bb)
Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J:spade: J:club:
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, CO raises to $0.90, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.60
Flop: ($1.95) 9:spade: K:spade: 6:spade: (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks
Turn: ($1.95) 6:club: (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.93, Hero calls $0.93
River: ($3.81) 8:club: (2 players)
Hero bets $2.20, CO folds
Results: $3.81 pot ($0.17 rake)
Final Board: 9:spade: K:spade: 6:spade: 6:club: 8:club:
Hero mucked J:spade: J:club: and won $3.64 ($1.81 net)
CO mucked and lost (-$1.83 net)
Should we just take control and lead on the turn here? For value and to charge if he has the A,Q or T of spades.
Or is it better letting a fairly aggressive player like this have a stab.
When a player of this aggression level checks this flop I immediately put him on a weak polarised A rag type hand range probably without a spade.
And this is betting for value on the end, although I'm not sure what worse is calling here with my sizing.
If I don't bet though, we give him another chance to bluff which might be a difficult call if he goes big enough.
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
SB: $10 (100 bb)
BB: $9.60 (96 bb)
UTG+2: $12.97 (129.7 bb)
MP1: $12.33 (123.3 bb)
MP2: $10.52 (105.2 bb)
Hero (MP3): $16.56 (165.6 bb)
CO: $10 (100 bb) VPIP: 16, PFR: 15, 3B: 5, AF: 3.8, Hands: 129
BTN: $15.57 (155.7 bb)
Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J:spade: J:club:
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, CO raises to $0.90, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.60
Flop: ($1.95) 9:spade: K:spade: 6:spade: (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks
Turn: ($1.95) 6:club: (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.93, Hero calls $0.93
River: ($3.81) 8:club: (2 players)
Hero bets $2.20, CO folds
Results: $3.81 pot ($0.17 rake)
Final Board: 9:spade: K:spade: 6:spade: 6:club: 8:club:
Hero mucked J:spade: J:club: and won $3.64 ($1.81 net)
CO mucked and lost (-$1.83 net)
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
I hope if anything it illuminates the bluffing outs point. This is actually something I would do live sometimes at higher stakes. I'd check back some bigger draws in position vs. better regs that liked to bluff because they would bet when the big flush draw outs came in and I could get them to make big mistakes, sometimes even re-bluff. But mostly people will almost never do this, so you can recognize and think ahead of time what cards you want to bluff on that make sense for you hand.
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Yeah, he could have some TT/JJ with a diamond or 9T with a diamond, so I like the larger sizing because there are some c/cing smaller diamond hands that make sense. He's not always going to fold those but you want the 9 and T of diamonds to fold a decent % of the time. This isn't the best spot, but it's still profitable and I like your thought process and approach. NH.
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
It's not an ideal spot because he will have some lower diamonds in his hand and we definitely want him to make a mistake by folding 9d/Td a decent % of the time and increased sizing helps there. Jd probably isn't folding often, but I think with increased sizing you can get some of those lower diamonds to incorrectly fold enough to be profitable.
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
I'd tend to bet the turn at these stakes, but I don't mind a check. I'd probably leans towards c/c on the river. I'm not sure what your bet sizing is trying to induce exactly. Which I just read you pretty much said the same thing also. I think allowing him to bluff or VB worse is a better option there.
TimovieMan
Legend
Silver Level
Darn, I was going for a "helpful" vibe...hey, no one likes a smart ass Tim...
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Figaroo2
Legend
Bronze Level
getting value
Felt like I deffo lost some value here, what is the best way to play this top set oop?
Pacific, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players
SB: $55.49 (111 bb)
BB: $38.33 (76.7 bb)
UTG+1: $8.91 (17.8 bb)
UTG+2: $52.80 (105.6 bb)
Hero (MP1): $50 (100 bb)
MP2: $194.44 (388.9 bb) VPIP: 31, PFR: 24, 3B: 5, AF: 1.9, Hands: 94
MP3: $52.89 (105.8 bb)
CO: $137.43 (274.9 bb)
BTN: $48.97 (97.9 bb)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 8:heart: 8:diamond:
UTG+1 calls $0.50, UTG+2 folds, Hero raises to $2, MP2 calls $2, 5 folds, UTG+1 calls $1.50
Flop: ($6.75) 6:heart: 8:spade: 2:heart: (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $3.37, MP2 raises to $6.74, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls $3.37
I was tempted to reraise here but it would have looked very strong. His bet felt like a feeler with 99,TT, JJ and he wants to see where he's at.
Turn: ($20.23) 4:heart: (2 players)
Obviously not happy to see the heart, do we still lead here?
Hero checks, MP2 checks
River: ($20.23) 9:diamond: (2 players)
Hero bets $10.11, MP2 calls $10.11
Results:
Felt like I deffo lost some value here, what is the best way to play this top set oop?
Pacific, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players
SB: $55.49 (111 bb)
BB: $38.33 (76.7 bb)
UTG+1: $8.91 (17.8 bb)
UTG+2: $52.80 (105.6 bb)
Hero (MP1): $50 (100 bb)
MP2: $194.44 (388.9 bb) VPIP: 31, PFR: 24, 3B: 5, AF: 1.9, Hands: 94
MP3: $52.89 (105.8 bb)
CO: $137.43 (274.9 bb)
BTN: $48.97 (97.9 bb)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 8:heart: 8:diamond:
UTG+1 calls $0.50, UTG+2 folds, Hero raises to $2, MP2 calls $2, 5 folds, UTG+1 calls $1.50
Flop: ($6.75) 6:heart: 8:spade: 2:heart: (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $3.37, MP2 raises to $6.74, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls $3.37
I was tempted to reraise here but it would have looked very strong. His bet felt like a feeler with 99,TT, JJ and he wants to see where he's at.
Turn: ($20.23) 4:heart: (2 players)
Obviously not happy to see the heart, do we still lead here?
Hero checks, MP2 checks
River: ($20.23) 9:diamond: (2 players)
Hero bets $10.11, MP2 calls $10.11
Results:
$40.45 pot ($2.02 rake)
Final Board: 6:heart: 8:spade: 2:heart: 4:heart: 9:diamond:
Hero showed 8:heart: 8:diamond: and won $38.43 ($19.58 net)
MP2 showed Q:spade: Q:heart: and lost (-$18.85 net)
Final Board: 6:heart: 8:spade: 2:heart: 4:heart: 9:diamond:
Hero showed 8:heart: 8:diamond: and won $38.43 ($19.58 net)
MP2 showed Q:spade: Q:heart: and lost (-$18.85 net)