Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

[rhombus]

I'm really diggin this info here. I'm noticing that I'm often around 2.2 the size of the pot.

What is the formula to get these numbers?

2.2 is 68.75%

To work out the breakeven its
BE = Risk/(Risk + Reward)

In the example in the video below blinds are 1/2 and the Raiser raises to 10
and he 3Bet to 32, so you are risking 32 and the reward is 32
so 32/(32 +13) ~ 32/45 ~71%.

But then I noticed the pot was 13 when they bet, If you 3Bet x2 (26) the BE is 66%
1.5 ~ 60.00% BE
2.0 ~ 66.66% BE
2.2 ~ 68.75%
2.5 ~ 71.4%
3 ~ 75%

Only thing is in picture below if villain raises above a certain size for the x1 x1.2 x1.5 and x1.8 your 3Bet isnt enough to make a min 3Bet

Kind of weird as:
2.6 raise by villain you cant make 1xPot ~ our 3Bet 8.20 min possible 8.40
3.6 raise by villain you cant make 1.2xPot our 3Bet 12.24 min possible 12.40
6.6 raise by villain you cant make 1.5xPot our 3Bet 24.30 min possible 24.40
18.6 raise by villain you cant make 1.8xPot our 3Bet 72.36 min possible 72.40

theres a slight difference when you are in the blinds, but the higher villain raises the closer the BE will be between being and not being in the blinds

http://redchippoker.com/subscription-confirmed/

 

[rhombus]

think these numbers are ok

Looking at the Villains Fold to 3Bet, the 2nd column is the Pot multiple you can bet up to.

i.e. if villain folds 66% you can bet up to 1.8 times the pot when they raise which gives you 64.29% Breakeven

 

[MinhANguyen]

I was expecting to see over pairs 88-QQ I was not expecting to see any 6s at all in his 3bet calling ranges other than a very occasional 66.

But by shoving river, you're isolating yourself against that hand or splits. I don't think any one pair is ever hero calling the river when we have a ton of Ace hands in our 3-betting range. Even his sets probably have to fold.

I think I prefer checking turn. It opens up his range, and he may try to bluff a draw and rep the ace. We are almost never getting 3 streets of value from a worse hand here. Even if you check turn here, you're still getting stacked. But checking is probably more +EV than barreling turn.

 

[Figaroo2]

But by shoving river, you're isolating yourself against that hand or splits. I don't think any one pair is ever hero calling the river when we have a ton of Ace hands in our 3-betting range. Even his sets probably have to fold.

I think I prefer checking turn. It opens up his range, and he may try to bluff a draw and rep the ace. We are almost never getting 3 streets of value from a worse hand here. Even if you check turn here, you're still getting stacked. But checking is probably more +EV than barreling turn.

Yeah you're all correct I properly butchered that one,
I was already tilted at that point and I shut down after that hand. When I saw he called my 3bet with 67 some proper swearing was broadcast. I've got to stop playing tired.

 

[Figaroo2]

888 is so fishy

At least 3 fish on every 10nl table on 888. Feeling sorry for you USA guys.
Top stats is today 10nl on 88

Bottom stats was aggro practice session on 5nl zoom.
It just doesn't come comfortable yet to 3 bet a ton but this helps me see just how often people fold to 3bets and or 3bet big cbet. I have to break out of my calling pattern somehow.
There didn't seem to be a need to be aggro with all the fish just play tight and value bet!

 

[TimovieMan]

At least 3 fish on every 10nl table on 888. Feeling sorry for you USA guys.

Or Belgian guys where Full Tilt, Party and 888 are off-limits too.


Anybody have a time machine to take me back to 1999? 5 years pre-UIGEA, 16 years pre-Black Friday?

 

[KapitoshkaOB]

Thanks so much for doing this John. I'm really looking forward to this!

 

[John A]

think these numbers are ok

Looking at the Villains Fold to 3Bet, the 2nd column is the Pot multiple you can bet up to.

i.e. if villain folds 66% you can bet up to 1.8 times the pot when they raise which gives you 64.29% Breakeven

Thanks for putting up those tables for everyone.

 

[John A]

At least 3 fish on every 10nl table on 888. Feeling sorry for you USA guys.
Top stats is today 10nl on 88

Bottom stats was aggro practice session on 5nl zoom.
It just doesn't come comfortable yet to 3 bet a ton but this helps me see just how often people fold to 3bets and or 3bet big cbet. I have to break out of my calling pattern somehow.
There didn't seem to be a need to be aggro with all the fish just play tight and value bet!

Bolvada isn't bad. You can get 1-2 fish per table. But the bigger problem is only 4 cash games tables.

 

[Figaroo2]

Bolvada isn't bad. You can get 1-2 fish per table. But the bigger problem is only 4 cash games tables.

888 you can only open 6 cash tables.
The fact that you can only 4 table Bovada is a frown but probably also allows the fish a little more table time.
I actually think this is good for the fish as their money will last longer if they sit with other weaker players and they probably have a more enjoyable experience.

This is one of the problems with pokerstars where sharks can sit at two dozen tables, there are still fish but you will usually only get one (sometimes 2) on either a FR or 6max table and sitting with a table full of good players they just lose their money really quickly.

 

[John A]

888 you can only open 6 cash tables.
The fact that you can only 4 table Bovada is a frown but probably also allows the fish a little more table time.
I actually think this is good for the fish as their money will last longer if they sit with other weaker players and they probably have a more enjoyable experience.

This is one of the problems with pokerstars where sharks can sit at two dozen tables, there are still fish but you will usually only get one (sometimes 2) on either a FR or 6max table and sitting with a table full of good players they just lose their money really quickly.

Yes, agreed of course... but bumping to 6 would be ok with me and still keep plenty of fish around.

 

[TimovieMan]

Not sure if this is the right thread to put this, but I got LeakBuster yesterday, and my "main" (critical) leak is not coldcalling enough in position.

Now, the Polished Poker book clearly states that coldcalling raises is burning money. Having position (CO/BTN) mitigates this somewhat, but in general, I've adopted more of a "3-bet or fold" strategy in these spots, for fear of being utterly dominated by the early raise (or for being ripe for a squeeze).

Looking at my stat post, I noticed that my VPIP in the CO is a mere 25% (despite having a 33% opening range on average), and my VPIP on the BTN is a mere 35% (despite having a 45-50% opening range on average).

My guess is that the big discrepancy between my VPIP and my opening range comes from folding to early raises too much. Hence where the coldcalling comes in, I suppose.

My question now is this: what's a good coldcalling range from the CO/BTN that won't bleed me money?
Medium pocket pairs and big-ish suited connectors, mainly?
Or do I need smaller pocket pairs and one-gappers or even unsuited lower broadways as well?

And what's our postflop strategy with those cards? bluffing more wet boards and value-betting everything that beats TPTK or an overpair???

These are going to be more marginal spots too, I reckon? Things that'll mostly serve to balance my range more for when I move up?
In other words, things to do vs the regs at NL2 but not necessarily vs fish.

Or is my reasoning askew?



Side question regarding Leak Buster: if I had a leak in my first 16K hands, but fixed it since then, and am now at 21K hands, at what point will Leak Buster stop seeing it as a leak?

 

[rhombus]

а в книге будет затронута тема, того что нельзя отрицать что во многих покеррумах присутствуют боты

and the book will be touched upon , that that can not be denied that in many poker rooms there are bots

There is a Russian speaking part of the forum

Существуетрусским языком часть форума

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/general-poker-13/cardschat-275535/

 

[Figaroo2]

my "main" (critical) leak is not coldcalling enough in position.

My question now is this: what's a good coldcalling range from the CO/BTN that won't bleed me money?
Medium pocket pairs and big-ish suited connectors, mainly?
Or do I need smaller pocket pairs and one-gappers or even unsuited lower broadways as well?
And what's our postflop strategy with those cards? Bluffing more wet boards and value-betting everything that beats TPTK or an overpair???
These are going to be more marginal spots too, I reckon? Things that'll mostly serve to balance my range more for when I move up?
In other words, things to do vs the regs at NL2 but not necessarily vs fish.
Or is my reasoning askew?
Side question regarding Leak Buster: if I had a leak in my first 16K hands, but fixed it since then, and am now at 21K hands, at what point will Leak Buster stop seeing it as a leak?

I'm sure John will be able to answer in more detail as he is the brains behind leak buster.
Do you remember we talked in your thread about shaving 10% off the number of hands in the blinds and adding those 10% into the co/btn ranges?
This might be what it's picking up. If this is your worst leak it's easily solvable and a leak in that you probably aren't winning as much from the btn as you should be rather than actually spewing chips.
Mastery of the btn is one of the most important things to get right in no limit.
On the btn I'm set mining all the small pairs against strong utg ranges. I'm also floating a ton against weak tight mice types and trying to take it away from any non agg players with a low wtsd% over a decent sample. My win rate from the button is easily the biggest from any position on the table and it should be for you as well.
I don't know about anyone else but I hate getting flatted or 3bet by the btn if I'm in either EP or MP and you should definitely be doing it more if leak buster is picking it up.

 

[TimovieMan]

Do you remember we talked in your thread about shaving 10% off the number of hands in the blinds and adding those 10% into the co/btn ranges?
This might be what it's picking up. If this is your worst leak it's easily solvable and a leak in that you probably aren't winning as much from the btn as you should be rather than actually spewing chips.

That's exactly why I'm asking the question.

 

[John A]

Not sure if this is the right thread to put this, but I got LeakBuster yesterday, and my "main" (critical) leak is not coldcalling enough in position.

Now, the Polished Poker book clearly states that coldcalling raises is burning money. Having position (CO/BTN) mitigates this somewhat, but in general, I've adopted more of a "3-bet or fold" strategy in these spots, for fear of being utterly dominated by the early raise (or for being ripe for a squeeze).

Leak Buster has different stat ranges for different stakes. I think more cold calling and things of that nature are slightly more profitable at some of these micro stakes than at higher stakes. Polished poker was written more for 10NL-200NL players. That's a strange critical leak to have, I don't think I've seen anyone have that before to be honest. 3-bet or folding more is fine. I just think the main point is that there's some spots in position you can cold call profitably. I wouldn't consider it something to get overly concerned about, but as you move up you'll want to cut that cold calling amount down.

Looking at my stat post, I noticed that my VPIP in the CO is a mere 25% (despite having a 33% opening range on average), and my VPIP on the BTN is a mere 35% (despite having a 45-50% opening range on average).

My guess is that the big discrepancy between my VPIP and my opening range comes from folding to early raises too much. Hence where the coldcalling comes in, I suppose.

My question now is this: what's a good coldcalling range from the CO/BTN that won't bleed me money?
Medium pocket pairs and big-ish suited connectors, mainly?
Or do I need smaller pocket pairs and one-gappers or even unsuited lower broadways as well?

Small pairs, occasionally some big suited connectors. Some hands that play well MW when that's the case, or opening up your range with non premium Broadway hands when weak players open. Cold calling you keep them in the pot and don't push them off. How much are you off here from ideal ranges though? I can't imagine it would be much.

And what's our postflop strategy with those cards? Bluffing more wet boards and value-betting everything that beats TPTK or an overpair???

These are going to be more marginal spots too, I reckon? Things that'll mostly serve to balance my range more for when I move up?
In other words, things to do vs the regs at NL2 but not necessarily vs fish.

Or is my reasoning askew?

It's hard to say an overall general strategy honestly. In general you're looking at hands and spots that play well vs. your opponents range. So if they are a fish that is opening a lot, then it's a lot of hands. If they are a weak player that is predictable, it's a lot of hands that you'll be floating post flop, etc..

Side question regarding Leak Buster: if I had a leak in my first 16K hands, but fixed it since then, and am now at 21K hands, at what point will Leak Buster stop seeing it as a leak?

When those range of hands merge and push it out of the limit. But you can set a filter range and check your last X hands or since a date and see how it's changed also.

 

[John A]

and the book will be touched upon , that that can not be denied that in many poker rooms there are bots

There is a Russian speaking part of the forum

Существуетрусским языком часть форума

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/general-poker-13/cardschat-275535/

You using google translate?

 

[rhombus]

You using google translate?

that depends if you used Google yourself to check

 

[John A]

So some tips I hope are helpful that every aspiring poker player should work on:

http://www.acepokersolutions.com/poker-blog/5-things-every-poker-player-should-work-on/

 

[rhombus]

havent played cash for a few days and it showed

Hand 1 should I have checked the Turn or is te bet call ok against an aggressive
Hand 2 only 10 hands but appears aggressive, but the board is so dry, DO i call one more and fold to river shove or just shove the turn
Hand 3 aprt from the questionable preflop call
Should I have just called the Flop Bet and once I did do I triple Barrell??


Hand 1
poker stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): $10 (100 bb)
BB: $10 (100 bb)
UTG: $12.80 (128 bb)
MP: $15.76 (157.6 bb)42/33 3B28.6 AG 41% 24 Hands
CO: $25.80 (258 bb)
BTN: $13.10 (131 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J

J

UTG folds, MP raises to $0.35, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.20, BB folds, MP calls $0.85

Flop: ($2.50) K

8

K

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.59, MP calls $1.59

Turn: ($5.68) 7

(2 players)
Hero bets $3.61, MP raises to $12.97, Hero calls $3.60 and is all-in

River: ($20.10) 7

(2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results: $20.10 pot ($0.90 rake)
Final Board: K

8

K

7

7

Hero showed J

J

and lost (-$10 net)
MP showed 7

7

and won $19.20 ($9.20 net)

Hand 2
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $25.24 (252.4 bb)
BB: $11.83 (118.3 bb)44/22 3B 20.0 AG%67 10 hands
UTG: $12.13 (121.3 bb)
Hero (MP): $19.90 (199 bb)
CO: $30.57 (305.7 bb)
BTN: $9.75 (97.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K

A

UTG raises to $0.40, Hero calls $0.40, 3 folds, BB calls $0.30

Flop: ($1.25) K

2

9

(3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $0.80, BB raises to $2, UTG folds, Hero calls $1.20

Turn: ($5.25) 3

(2 players)
BB bets $2.50, Hero ????

Hand3
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $14.92 (149.2 bb)
Hero (BB): $18.23 (182.3 bb)
UTG: $11.02 (110.2 bb)
MP: $15.46 (154.6 bb)33/33 3B0.0 AG 33% 3 hands
CO: $10.32 (103.2 bb)
BTN: $11.44 (114.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8

Q

UTG folds, MP raises to $0.30, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65) T

J

4

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $0.30, Hero raises to $1.30, MP calls $1

Turn: ($3.25) 3

(2 players)
Hero bets $2, MP calls $2

River: ($7.25) 3

(2 players)
Hero

 

[or3o1990]

I think betting the turn is fine in hand 1. I don't know what you beat that he's reraising you on the turn with though.

Hand 2 it seems that the villain is too aggressive. I lean towards calling down but there's certainly no point in calling the turn if we're not calling pretty much all rivers.

Hand 3 sucks because of the runout. I think I just fold on the end.

 

[TimovieMan]

That's a strange critical leak to have, I don't think I've seen anyone have that before to be honest.

Either I misremembered, or it changed after yesterday's session, but the "not coldcalling enough in position" is now a "somewhat important" leak, and it's repeated twice in the "needs attention" that my CC% from the middle and my CC% from the CO are too low.

Given the reg-infested nature of my games, I'm going to assume that my NL2 plays more like NL5 or NL10 and not pay too much attention to it.

How much are you off here from ideal ranges though? I can't imagine it would be much.

The graph indicates I should CC 5-10% of the time, while I only do so less than 1%.

I've CC'd several hands that I would've otherwise folded during my session last night but it's difficult to gauge how well it has worked since I was tired and played relatively poorly due to a lack of concentration.


Also: no more "critical" leaks, and all 3 "very important" leaks all had to do with calling 3-bets. But they're dropping in importance, so I'm probably adjusting (folding) correctly.

Now I have to find out how to optimally use Leak Buster to find leaks in the regs I play against daily, so that I may exploit them.

 

[John A]

havent played cash for a few days and it showed

Hand 1 should I have checked the Turn or is te bet call ok against an aggressive
Hand 2 only 10 hands but appears aggressive, but the board is so dry, DO i call one more and fold to river shove or just shove the turn
Hand 3 aprt from the questionable preflop call
Should I have just called the Flop Bet and once I did do I triple Barrell??


Hand 1
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): $10 (100 bb)
BB: $10 (100 bb)
UTG: $12.80 (128 bb)
MP: $15.76 (157.6 bb)42/33 3B28.6 AG 41% 24 Hands
CO: $25.80 (258 bb)
BTN: $13.10 (131 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J

J

UTG folds, MP raises to $0.35, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.20, BB folds, MP calls $0.85

Flop: ($2.50) K

8

K

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.59, MP calls $1.59

Turn: ($5.68) 7

(2 players)
Hero bets $3.61, MP raises to $12.97, Hero calls $3.60 and is all-in

River: ($20.10) 7

(2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results: $20.10 pot ($0.90 rake)
Final Board: K

8

K

7

7

Hero showed J

J

and lost (-$10 net)
MP showed 7

7

and won $19.20 ($9.20 net)

I think against someone aggressive it's better to just check the turn here. Allow them to be their floats, etc.. As played, you obviously can't bet/fold.

Hand 2
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $25.24 (252.4 bb)
BB: $11.83 (118.3 bb)44/22 3B 20.0 AG%67 10 hands
UTG: $12.13 (121.3 bb)
Hero (MP): $19.90 (199 bb)
CO: $30.57 (305.7 bb)
BTN: $9.75 (97.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K

A

UTG raises to $0.40, Hero calls $0.40, 3 folds, BB calls $0.30

Flop: ($1.25) K

2

9

(3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $0.80, BB raises to $2, UTG folds, Hero calls $1.20

Turn: ($5.25) 3

(2 players)
BB bets $2.50, Hero ????

If it wasn't MW I'd say raise the turn, but as played, just call down. He's aggressive, he's most likely not bluffing with that sizing and being MW, so you're looking for an overplayed Kx which looks very viable based on the only 10 hands you have on him.

Hand3
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $14.92 (149.2 bb)
Hero (BB): $18.23 (182.3 bb)
UTG: $11.02 (110.2 bb)
MP: $15.46 (154.6 bb)33/33 3B0.0 AG 33% 3 hands
CO: $10.32 (103.2 bb)
BTN: $11.44 (114.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8

Q

UTG folds, MP raises to $0.30, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65) T

J

4

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $0.30, Hero raises to $1.30, MP calls $1

Turn: ($3.25) 3

(2 players)
Hero bets $2, MP calls $2

River: ($7.25) 3

(2 players)
Hero

On these kinds of mid wet boards I'm not a fan of CRing. If someone bets on this board, they should have a hand most of the time, so you're just bloating the pot. C/C, lead the turn. As played, on that runout I'd give up on the river. Not enough info to know what kind of opponent you're again, and it's another reason I'd be folding pre-flop also.

 

[John A]

Either I misremembered, or it changed after yesterday's session, but the "not coldcalling enough in position" is now a "somewhat important" leak, and it's repeated twice in the "needs attention" that my CC% from the middle and my CC% from the CO are too low.

Given the reg-infested nature of my games, I'm going to assume that my NL2 plays more like NL5 or NL10 and not pay too much attention to it.

The graph indicates I should CC 5-10% of the time, while I only do so less than 1%.

I've CC'd several hands that I would've otherwise folded during my session last night but it's difficult to gauge how well it has worked since I was tired and played relatively poorly due to a lack of concentration.


Also: no more "critical" leaks, and all 3 "very important" leaks all had to do with calling 3-bets. But they're dropping in importance, so I'm probably adjusting (folding) correctly.

Now I have to find out how to optimally use Leak Buster to find leaks in the regs I play against daily, so that I may exploit them.

So what are you doing w/ small pairs? Folding or 3-betting them? If you just cold called small pairs, you should have a higher % than that. And the whole point is that in position, you want to cold call some hands against weaker players. You don't want to 3-bet and force them to have a hand.

I'd focus on other leaks first if I were you.

 

[TimovieMan]

So what are you doing w/ small pairs? Folding or 3-betting them? If you just cold called small pairs, you should have a higher % than that.

Those are the ones I coldcall. In fact, those are the only ones I coldcall. 77+ is generally a 3-bet.

Yeah, the 0.6% seemed a bit low, considering I coldcall small pairs.
Is 20K hands enough of a sample size, though? I'm only BTN or CO 1/3 of the time. Let's say 7K hands. I'm only getting 22-66 2.3% of the time so about 158 times. And it's facing an early raise which, with the TAGs at my tables is going to be what? 15% of the time? So we're talking about a theoretical 23-24 times. Would it be that weird if it only happened 10 times?