Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

[or3o1990]

Or3o1990 your flush draw hands posted

Every hand you posted you were OOP

Learn to play in position and learn to get freecards

ATS double barrell even tripple against that villain

Oh, I definitely know about the magical btn. I fold the AJo from utg if I'm at a tough table. Being out of position is another reason i opted for more aggressive lines.

How would you suggest I get free cards oop? Unless im against a very passive player or the villain has an underpair to the board or A high and are trying to get to showdown when i check the turn they bet and I'm not getting the right odds to call.

 

[duggs]

Or3o1990 your flush draw hands posted

Every hand you posted you were OOP

Learn to play in position and learn to get freecards

ATS double barrell even tripple against that villain

unless you are advocating folding any of the hands preflop (which imho would be a pretty big error) i dont see what he can do about it, sometimes we are OOP. agree on doubling ATs

Im not raising A3hh on x66hh 4 handed with a pot sized lead.

AJ is played fine.

 

[or3o1990]

unless you are advocating folding any of the hands preflop (which imho would be a pretty big error) i dont see what he can do about it, sometimes we are OOP. agree on doubling ATs

Im not raising A3hh on x66hh 4 handed with a pot sized lead.

AJ is played fine.

Thanks Duggs, I'm glad someone kind of agrees. I've been getting flamed a bit over these flush draw hands.

I think 3betting the AT was the first mistake. The villain had a high fold to 3bet but a very low fold to cbets and turn bets(small sample). After I checked his turn stats I decided not to bet but as played I should have given him the second barrel.

The A3 was also a mistake. I wanted to believe that the original raiser could have had some bigger aces in his range but with that bet into so many people that just isn't the case. These hands all happened one after the other and it affected my line a bit. I didn't want to check fold the turn again here.

 

[Sneaky Feet]

Good morning everyone I've got a few hands that I wanted to post. I was running really well this morning so a lot of this (especially this hand) is imo due to luck. Sorry Rhombus I think I might have borrowed some of yours.

Luck runs out so I want to know if I played these hands okay

Hand 1

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (5 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

MP ($10.02)
Hero (Button) ($5.36)
SB ($5)
BB ($5)
UTG ($5.39)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q

, Q

2 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, SB raises to $0.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.35

Flop: ($1.05) 7

, Q

, K

(2 players)
SB bets $0.90, Hero raises to $2, SB raises to $4.50 (All-In), Hero calls $2.50

Turn: ($10.05) 4

(2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($10.05) Q

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $10.05 | Rake: $0.42

Results below:

Spoiler

Hero had Q

, Q

(four of a kind, Queens).
SB had K

, K

(full house, Kings over Queens).
Outcome: Hero won $9.63

Hand 2 what happened here? I've never seen this before. At this point at the table with the 3bet from HJ I was going to fold but as soon as BB called I came along. Bad decision? He was pretty fishy so I thought I might have better EV to call. But again how this one ended was weird and I've never seen this happen before.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

BB ($1.92)
Hero (UTG) ($14.44)
MP ($5)
CO ($2.80)
Button ($5)
SB ($5.14)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q

, 10

Hero raises to $0.15, MP raises to $0.50, 3 folds, BB calls $0.45, Hero calls $0.35

Flop: ($1.52) 5

, 3

, 2

(3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP bets $0.75, BB raises to $1.42 (All-In), Hero folds, MP calls $0.67

Running it twice

First Turn: ($2.18) 7

First River: ($2.18) 5

Second Turn: ($2.18) 8

Second River: ($2.18) Q

Board 1: 5

, 3

, 2

, 7

, 5

Board 2: 5

, 3

, 2

, 8

, Q

Total pot: $4.36 | Rake: $0.18

Results below:

Spoiler

BB had K

, A

BB had flush, King high on the first board and collected $2.18
BB had high card, Ace on the second board
MP had 10

, 10

MP had flush, ten high on the first board
MP had one pair, tens on the second board and collected $2.18
Outcome: BB won $2.09, MP won $2.09

Hand 3. This one I was completely lost on the river. What should I have done here?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

UTG ($9.93)
Hero (MP) ($10.01)
CO ($5.25)
Button ($5.18)
SB ($5)
BB ($5.05)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A

, J

1 fold, Hero raises to $0.15, 1 fold, Button calls $0.15, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.37) J

, 10

, 8

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.20, Button raises to $0.52, Hero calls $0.32

Turn: ($1.41) K

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.90, Button calls $0.90

River: ($3.21) 9

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.55, 1 fold

Total pot: $3.21 | Rake: $0.13

Results below:

Spoiler

Hero didn't show A

, J

(one pair, Jacks).

 

[Figaroo2]

Sneaky
hand 1 QQ you played it fine, he doesn't have KK here very often, and we hit our 1 out, nice.
hand 3. This manaical.... Why are you leading the turn after being raised on the flop, you want to see a cheap river card. What were you going to do if he shoved the turn on you? There is a lot of KQ in his range here after raising the flop.
On the river here nothing worse is calling, you might get 2 pair to fold, but we still can't be sure he doesn't have a Q. Its a bit spewy to be honest.

 

[Sneaky Feet]

Sneaky
hand 1 QQ you played it fine, he doesn't have KK here very often, and we hit our 1 out, nice.
hand 3. This manaical.... Why are you leading the turn after being raised on the flop, you want to see a cheap river card. What were you going to do if he shoved the turn on you? There is a lot of KQ in his range here after raising the flop.
On the river here nothing worse is calling, you might get 2 pair to fold, but we still can't be sure he doesn't have a Q. Its a bit spewy to be honest.

Thanks Figaroo I appreciate your insight. Should I have even called the raise on the flop? I thought since I hit part of the flop and still having an over card that calling the raise would have been okay. I definitely see where you're going with leading the turn though. Definitely would have been better to check.

When I have a moment I'm going to do the math and post based on calling the flop raise then checking the turn and villain betting 2/3rds of the pot. Just for the hell of it.

 

[rhombus]

Worth calling off?

Pacific, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

SB: $8.20 (41 bb)
BB: $28.17 (140.9 bb)
UTG+1: $22.15 (110.8 bb)
UTG+2: $20 (100 bb)
Hero (MP1): $20 (100 bb)
MP2: $21.58 (107.9 bb)
MP3: $11.70 (58.5 bb)
CO: $24.64 (123.2 bb)
BTN: $15.66 (78.3 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 8♦ 7♦
UTG+1 raises to $0.57, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls $0.57, 4 folds, SB calls $0.47, BB folds

Flop: ($1.91) 8♣ 9♦ T♦ (3 players)
SB bets $2.80, UTG+1 raises to $21.20, Hero calls $19.43 and is all-in, SB calls $4.83 and is all-in

Turn: ($48.40) 5♥ (3 players, 2 are all-in)
River: ($48.40) T♠ (3 players, 2 are all-in)

Results: $48.40 pot ($2.42 rake)
Final Board: 8♣ 9♦ T♦ 5♥ T♠
SB showed T♥ 8♥ and won $23.56 ($15.36 net)
UTG+1 showed A♣ J♦ and won $0.00 (-$20 net)
Hero showed 8♦ 7♦ and won $22.42 ($2.42 net)

SPR was 10 which is really big and you had bottom pair & idiot end of straight draw. The way the money went in the SB was easy fold if he had $20.

Against 2 pair its about a flip
Against a set you are 44/56
against JdQd you are F$%^&d.

Based on actions - the shove from UTG looks as it was, isolating the shorty with a draw and probably not the straight, depends if he had something like A3d then you are 70/30 but if he had AdJd its a flip.

Overall difficult to work out with shorty but Id probably call as you are going to be flipping against the UTGs range which is flush draws straight draws and maybe sets if worried about flush draws thens it 50/50

 

[Sneaky Feet]

Okay so let me see if I got the maths right : )

AJs

Flop
Jc10c8s

Call a raise to make pot 1.41

Turn

Ks

Hero checks
Villain bets .95 (2/3)

Hero needs to call .95 to win 2.36

Outs
A x3
Q x4
J x2
FD x9

18 outs from 46 remaining = 39%

Approx 2.5:1 vs 2.7:1

Rhom remind me of the new rule of outs again? -1%? For every out over 8? I didn't use it here because I wasn't sure.

Result: Calling here would be very narrow EV but still positive.

If I'm correct then this would be one of those spots where I would have to look at what percentage does villain fold to a raise in the turn?

Not really sure how to figure that out yet.

Better?

 

[rhombus]

Good morning everyone I've got a few hands that I wanted to post. I was running really well this morning so a lot of this (especially this hand) is imo due to luck. Sorry Rhombus I think I might have borrowed some of yours.

No probs heres some more luck you can have

I was doing ok yesterday up 6buyins then at the end in last 10 mins gave nearly 4 back

Hand1 I 3Bet the Cutoff with TT - flopeed set and head had KJo for the straight
Hand2 AK v QQ trying to avoid these but he was 40/30 3Bet 16.7
Hand3 BB vs SB - I 3bet he min 4 bet PF CC 60c on flop. When I hit Ace for 2 pair, very few combos Im losing too AA (1) or JJ (3) AJ(6).
When he checked I bet and he min raised again (hoping he had AK) he had JJ
Hand4 TJ he had KT for bigger Set

 

[rhombus]

Okay so let me see if I got the maths right : )

AJs

Flop
Jc10c8s

Call a raise to make pot 1.41

Turn

Ks

Hero checks
Villain bets .95 (2/3)

Hero needs to call .95 to win 2.36

Outs
A x3
Q x4
J x2
FD x9

18 outs from 46 remaining = 39%

Approx 2.5:1 vs 2.7:1

Rhom remind me of the new rule of outs again? -1%? For every out over 8? I didn't use it here because I wasn't sure.

Result: Calling here would be very narrow EV but still positive.

If I'm correct then this would be one of those spots where I would have to look at what percentage does villain fold to a raise in the turn?

Not really sure how to figure that out yet.

Better?

You are counting Outs twice which is easy to do (4Queens- only 3 if you ar counting the Qs in the FD)

Also the Ace might not be an out, it gives you 2 pair but puts 4 to a straight on board

Id say 14 outs - 9 spades, 3 Queens and 2 Jacks
With 1 card to come I normally double the outs and add +1 so 29%
or 6 known cards 46 unknown

Out of 46 unknown 32 are bad and 14 good so 32/14 =2.285 to 1
% = 100/(2.285 + 1) 30.4%

PS the rule where you subtract 1 is when you are working out from Flop to river, not from Turn to river

So if you had 18 outs on the flop the 2 4 rule would say 72%
whereas if you subtract 1 for every out over 8 its 72% - 10% = 62%
The chart i posted says 62.4 so pretty close

 

[rhombus]

OK sneaky this may solve all your problems
Print the chart from here

http://www.pokerology.com/charts/poker-drawing-odds.pdf

Ive just done some formulas in Excel - been meaning to do them for ages. Basically depending on how much villain bets it tells you the odds to call and the percentage to break even

In the pic below If villain bets 2/3 Pot you need 2.5 to 1 or 28.57%

Example you have open ended straight on FLop (8 outs), on the Odds chart to hit from Flop to River its 31.5%, on my chart or calcualtion above its 28.57%

If villain goes all in on Flop and his bet is 2/3 Pot its a call because the odds to hit (31.5%) is greater than the odds needed (28.57)

Impled Odds can complicate it becasue you dont need the odds if you think you can get an extra bet from Villain

 

[Sneaky Feet]

Out of 46 unknown 32 are bad and 14 good so 32/14 =2.285 to 1
% = 100/(2.285 + 1) 30.4

The queens! Damn it I did it again! Okay so the rest of your reply does make sense but please excuse my ignorance as math isn't my strong suite. Ask me how to increase your deadlift or tell me your shoulder needs fixing and I'm all over it but unfortunately even simple math confounds me.

So in the quoted above, why are you adding 1 to 2.285?

 

[duggs]

Thanks Duggs, I'm glad someone kind of agrees. I've been getting flamed a bit over these flush draw hands.

I think 3betting the AT was the first mistake. The villain had a high fold to 3bet but a very low fold to cbets and turn bets(small sample). After I checked his turn stats I decided not to bet but as played I should have given him the second barrel.

The A3 was also a mistake. I wanted to believe that the original raiser could have had some bigger aces in his range but with that bet into so many people that just isn't the case. These hands all happened one after the other and it affected my line a bit. I didn't want to check fold the turn again here.

im fine 3betting ATs, i think people are overestimating the value in flatting his open, especially given we have exploitive reasons to 3bet as you mentioned. how often does he bet the flop when checked to? like we get squeezed around 15% from behind and end up getting stuck flatting a 3bet (sucks) folding (also sucks) or back raise 4betting which also sucks. people also forget that position struggles to negate the fact our range is capped, having a capped range means the gap concept is actually alive and well.

as long as you are 3betting Axs that are worse than this and not folding anything better i dont see the big deal with 3betting it?

na A3 is a super clear call and love it when we get there.

 

[rhombus]

The queens! Damn it I did it again! Okay so the rest of your reply does make sense but please excuse my ignorance as math isn't my strong suite. Ask me how to increase your deadlift or tell me your shoulder needs fixing and I'm all over it but unfortunately even simple math confounds me.

So in the quoted above, why are you adding 1 to 2.285?

2/1 or 2 to 1 means there are 3 possiblilities. Out of those 3 possibilities 1 you will win and 2 you will lose, therfore when you want to convert to a percentage you divide 100/3 ~ each possibility is 33%

for example if you was 2/1 and just divided 100 by 2 it would be 50%.


You don't always add 1 it depends on the odds. If it was 5/2 or 5 to 2, there are 7 possibilities so 100/7 = 14.28571 and multiply that by 2 = 28.57%

 

[rhombus]

you dont actually need to know the maths as alot of them are estimates, unless you are rainman you are never going to get exact numbers. Just use the charts

another example based on the hand you posted with 14 outs and Villain bets 2/3 Pot

You have 14 outs on the Turn
Top chart ~ 30.4% to hit
Bottom Chart ~ you need 28.57% to breakeven (if less than top chart then CALL)

PS @ figaroo sorry about the freeroll

 

[or3o1990]

im fine 3betting ATs, i think people are overestimating the value in flatting his open, especially given we have exploitive reasons to 3bet as you mentioned. how often does he bet the flop when checked to? like we get squeezed around 15% from behind and end up getting stuck flatting a 3bet (sucks) folding (also sucks) or back raise 4betting which also sucks. people also forget that position struggles to negate the fact our range is capped, having a capped range means the gap concept is actually alive and well.

as long as you are 3betting Axs that are worse than this and not folding anything better i dont see the big deal with 3betting it?

na A3 is a super clear call and love it when we get there.

He cbet the flop 3/3 times. The player in the BB was a bad short stack player. So I can see the argument for just calling and trying to keep that player in but I find most of my profit from raising pre and taking it down with a cbet. So I'm really looking to have the initiative as often as I can without overdoing it.

I'm definitely 3betting my wheel aces but the medium aces are where it gets a little trickier. I understand with A10 that I'm folding out mostly worse hands with the exception of maybe some small pairs. But when I call and miss I certainly loose money. I'm not usually floating the flop or trying to get to showdown with A high without a confident read that their either the one and done type or they show little to no post flop aggression.

 

[or3o1990]

Having a terrible run tonight. Lost 4BI in 900 hands 2.5 of them being in the last 300 or so, it ****ing blows.. I was getting murdered by 40BB stacks. A bet and a cbet in with a good pair and I'm committed.. Hasn't worked out for me once this evening and right as I'm on the cusp of 200nl

So give it to me straight guys. The name of this game is bad luck or bad play! Let me know what you think and how you may have played it differently


I just watched Figaroo get into a spot like this one. I say bad luck because a flopped flush is so uncommon I feel it's best to punish them every time as If they have an A or K high draw.


Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K♥ A♣

UTG calls 1 BB, fold, MP raises to 2 BB, fold, CO calls 2 BB, fold, Hero raises to 8 BB, fold, fold, MP calls 6 BB, CO calls 6 BB

Flop: (26 BB, 3 players) 3♦ A♦ 7♦
Hero bets 17 BB, MP calls 17 BB, fold

Turn: (60 BB, 2 players) 3♠
Hero bets 15 BB, MP calls 14.29 BB and is all-in

River: (88.58 BB, 2 players) 9♣

MP shows T♦ K♦ (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 31%, Flop 98%, Turn 91%)
Hero shows K♥ A♣ (Two Pair, Aces and Threes)
(Pre 69%, Flop 2%, Turn 9%)
MP wins 85.58 BB

Three hands later I ran kings into this same players queens and he turned it and took another 85 off me. No need to post that though.

This here seemed like it might have been a set but I didn't think a set would be betting out on the river here with the flush having come in. That combined with the small sizing plus his afq got me to call.


SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A♦ Q♦

UTG calls 1 BB, fold, MP calls 1 BB, fold, Hero raises to 6 BB, fold, fold, UTG calls 5 BB, MP calls 5 BB

Flop: (19.5 BB, 3 players) 9♥ 2♣ 6♠
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets 10 BB, fold, MP calls 10 BB

Turn: (39.5 BB, 2 players) Q♠
MP checks, Hero bets 19.75 BB, MP calls 19.75 BB

River: (79 BB, 2 players) K♠
MP bets 19 BB, Hero calls 19 BB

MP shows T♠ A♠ (Flush, Ace High)

MP wins 114 BB

Here I thought he could have QQ but maybe that was just because I'd been losing and was in a negative state of mind? This guy had just sat down too. I also thought he could have 99-JJ or KK with a spade. I wasn't really worried about him having an 8 and figured we beat most of those hands and some can certainly call so I bet which committed me here.


SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB, CO posts penalty blind 0.5 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2 BB) Hero has A♣ A♠

fold, fold, fold, fold, MP+2 raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 9 BB, SB calls 7.59 BB and is all-in, fold, MP+2 calls 6 BB

Flop: (27.59 BB, 3 players) 3♠ Q♠ 8♣
MP+2 checks, Hero bets 14 BB, MP+2 calls 14 BB

Turn: (55.59 BB, 3 players) 8♠
MP+2 checks, Hero bets 27.79 BB, MP+2 raises to 71 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 43.21 BB

River: (197.59 BB, 3 players) T♥

MP+2 shows Q♦ Q♣ (Full House, Queens full of Eights)

Main Pot [25.77 BB]: (Pre 16%, Flop 75%, Turn 95%)
Side Pot#1 [171.82 BB]: (Pre 18%, Flop 88%, Turn 95%)

Hero shows A♣ A♠ (Two Pair, Aces and Eights)

Main Pot [25.77 BB]: (Pre 71%, Flop 10%, Turn 5%)
Side Pot#1 [171.82 BB]: (Pre 82%, Flop 12%, Turn 5%)

SB shows T♦ J♠ (Two Pair, Tens and Eights)

Main Pot [25.77 BB]: (Pre 13%, Flop 14%, Turn 0%)

MP+2 wins 194.59 BB

 

[Sneaky Feet]

you dont actually need to know the maths as alot of them are estimates, unless you are rainman you are never going to get exact numbers. Just use the charts

another example based on the hand you posted with 14 outs and Villain bets 2/3 Pot

You have 14 outs on the Turn
Top chart ~ 30.4% to hit
Bottom Chart ~ you need 28.57% to breakeven (if less than top chart then CALL)

PS @ figaroo sorry about the freeroll

Thanks again Rhombus I really appreciate your helping me with that and your patience with my seemly redicilous question. Totally get it now : )

I'm going to be printing those charts out as well. Pretty soon my bathroom mirror will be about the size of a crisp!

 

[Figaroo2]

Having a terrible run tonight. Lost 4BI in 900 hands 2.5 of them being in the last 300 or so, it ****ing blows.. I was getting murdered by 40BB stacks. A bet and a cbet in with a good pair and I'm committed.. Hasn't worked out for me once this evening and right as I'm on the cusp of 200nl

So give it to me straight guys. The name of this game is bad luck or bad play! Let me know what you think and how you may have played it differently

You aren't alone feeling like this buddy starting with that loss to the flopped flush I lost $70 at mixed 10nl & 20nl on 888 running into the top of everyone's ranges so decided just switch sites. Went back to 25nl on Stars and got $65 back.

Your first two posted hands look standard against those stacks but the 3rd is not. You have to bin the aces to the raise ott. You 3bet and fired two barrels and he still wants to raise you all in......This is never a bluff and too ambitious for AQ KQ . It's a hand that beats you full stop. Refer to John's flow chart....We get raised here then every thing less than top two pair should be in the muck.

 

[duggs]

Your first two posted hands look standard against those stacks but the 3rd is not. You have to bin the aces to the raise ott. You 3bet and fired two barrels and he still wants to raise you all in......This is never a bluff and too ambitious for AQ KQ . It's a hand that beats you full stop. Refer to John's flow chart....We get raised here then every thing less than top two pair should be in the muck.

Well AA is the nut two pair here, and we have a flush redraw, realistically villain has like 1.5-2.0 combos of QQ assuming he 4bets and or raises flop and or calls turn with it 33-50% of the time. he has the case 88, but he also has alot of hands that can jam because calling sucks, and even if he jams a flush, we actually have ok equity because we have 3 additional outs, (A, A, 8).

we need 21% equity to make a call as we are putting 43 into 154.

optimistic:

against a range of 88 2/3 QQ 1 combo of JJs 3 combos of KsQ and 2 KQo 98s T9ss KJss JTss we have 49.7% equity

neutral:

88 2/3 QQ 3 KsQ combos and 87s 98s T9ss KJss JTss we have 36% equity

pessimistic

88 2/3 QQ 1 KQdd combo 87s 98s T9ss KJss JTss we have 24% equity

superpessimistic:

88 2/3 QQ 87s 98s T9ss KJss JTss we have 16% equity,

its a break even call if he never has 88 (assume slowplays) and only has 1 combo of QQ, and 87s 89s and 3 flush combos.

its also worth noting that our calling range is literally QQ/AKss (possibly just AKss if we dont cbet QQ) so if we are doubling KK+ AQ+ we are folding and insane amount to his jam getting insane odds.

 

[Figaroo2]

I didn't notice we had Ace of spades that does make a big difference. I'm tired....
Regardless of that at 25nl whenever I call with aces in these spots I'm always crushed usually by sets and concealed straights
Unless they are maniacs Players lower down the stakes don't shove in cash games because alternatives suck. They aren't good enough to bluff and few try because very few are able to fold their aces. This is nearly always the nuts or near nuts as was proved at showdown.
And from what I've seen 100nl Bovada is weaker than 25nl on Stars

 

[rhombus]

Thanks again Rhombus I really appreciate your helping me with that and your patience with my seemly redicilous question. Totally get it now : )

I'm going to be printing those charts out as well. Pretty soon my bathroom mirror will be about the size of a crisp!

your welcome and no such thing as a ridiculous question on here we are all learning.

Also remember reading somewhere, it was the ones who were always asking questions who made it to the top, so think of us at the bottom when you make it there

 

[rhombus]

Couple of quizzes for you all
from Splitsuit
https://redchippoker.typeform.com/to/cp3Giz?mc_cid=3fb653567d&mc_eid=b05ef2df5b

from Jonathan Little
http://cashgameiq.com/quiz.php

 

[or3o1990]

You aren't alone feeling like this buddy starting with that loss to the flopped flush I lost $70 at mixed 10nl & 20nl on 888 running into the top of everyone's ranges so decided just switch sites. Went back to 25nl on Stars and got $65 back.

Your first two posted hands look standard against those stacks but the 3rd is not. You have to bin the aces to the raise ott. You 3bet and fired two barrels and he still wants to raise you all in......This is never a bluff and too ambitious for AQ KQ . It's a hand that beats you full stop. Refer to John's flow chart....We get raised here then every thing less than top two pair should be in the muck.

That's just how the cards fall sometimes unfortunately. As I looked over my hands I felt like I could have saved like 60BB last night. I 3bet a reg and cbet a wet flop which was unnecessary and had I check called river with the aces I maybe save 45BB or so, maybe. So I felt like I played well for the most part but I have to take to the forums just to be certain

Well AA is the nut two pair here, and we have a flush redraw, realistically villain has like 1.5-2.0 combos of QQ assuming he 4bets and or raises flop and or calls turn with it 33-50% of the time. he has the case 88, but he also has alot of hands that can jam because calling sucks, and even if he jams a flush, we actually have ok equity because we have 3 additional outs, (A, A, 8).

I didn't want to be unrealistically pessemistic and assume he only has QQ here or an 8. We don't usually turn a card that adds to our equity against our opponents range and check it. Being that he was an unknown and I only had 4 hands on him as well I decided to bet. Maybe I could have saved myself a little money if I'd checked the turn. But over a larger sample and against a reasonable range do you think betting is the best line or do you check here ever?

I'm always trying to put my opponents on ranges but if you could suggest a source I could use to hone that skill away from the felt I'd appreciate it. I'm due for a new book by now.

 

[duggs]

it looks like a fine turn bet to me.