Live Grind: How to Fall Asleep at the Table (Without Getting Caught)

Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

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Plans fell apart yesterday when I didn't finish up at work until 7:40pm or so. Then I got to haircut place as just before they closed at 8pm, and got a haircut. Headed home and relaxed a bit, ate dinner, packed, showered, and finally headed out for Hammond, IN at around 10pm.

Got to the hotel here at like 1:15am, and was planning to take a nap in 1.5-hour increments as needed. Woke back up as planned at 3am, but when I set my alarm for another 1.5 hours, I have no idea what happened. I woke up at 8am with my alarm clearly going off (on the screen), but no sound. Oh well - so much for grinding through the night...

It's now about 8:30, and I'm about to go get some complimentary breakfast at the hotel before heading over to the casino. Looks like there's only one 2/5 and 5/10 game running, and the 5/10 is likely terrible plus I don't have tons of cash on me. Then again, there's always the 50/100 mix. :)
 
BenjiHustle

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50/100 for the baller!

Power naps are overrated, imo.
 
Matt Vaughan

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Had a rough time of things, so I quit the night early. Undecided about playing tomorrow before driving home.
 
Matt Vaughan

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These are in chronological order.

Location: Horseshoe Hammon
Stakes: 2/5 NLHE

Dynamics: I've folded about an orbit and a half after getting seated when this hand happens.
Preflop: UTG and UTG+1 limp, I make it $30 in MP with :ah4: :9c4:, SB calls, we go HU.
Reads: Not much. SB has played one pot as a PFR and cbet to take it down. He has called and limped several times. Seems reggy from what he's wearing (hoodie with hood on) and from how he pays attention to the action.

Flop ($70) :qs4: :9d4: :4c4:
SB looks at the board but then makes unblinking eye contact with me for about 5 seconds, then checks. I opt to check behind since I don't think I get called by worse very often.

Turn ($70) :3c4:
Villain looks at me again, but doesn't maintain it very long before just going for chips and betting $60. I nearly folded just because the comfort he bet with as well as the sizing, but I ended up making the call.

River ($) :jd4:
Villain check, hero check behind.

Villain shows KQo and wins.

Dynamics: A couple hands after the A9 hand above.
Preflop: EP open limps, I make it $25 with :ac4: :ah4: in the HJ and EP is the only caller.
Reads: EP is the SB villain from last hand.

Flop ($50) :7s4: :3s4: :2c4:
I cbet $35, villain calls.

Turn ($120) :kc4:
I cbet $55, villain calls.

River ($230) :10s4:
I bet $105, villain calls.

Villain has :qs4: :js4:

I may add more later. Obviously these weren't the only hands I lost.
 
Mr Sandbag

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We talked about 2nd hand.

1st hand: I prob bet flop. I actually think we can get called by worse (TT, worse 9x, JT, maybe KJs/KTs and other medium pairs as well). As played, we can call turn as long as we plan on calling river. Our range is pretty weak when we check flop/call turn so I'd expect a river bet quite often from bluffs. No point in calling turn if we are just going to fold a ton, especially since your only read is that the guy is reggy (I assume this means you believe he's a thinking player).
 
Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

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We talked about 2nd hand.

1st hand: I prob bet flop. I actually think we can get called by worse (TT, worse 9x, JT, maybe KJs/KTs and other medium pairs as well). As played, we can call turn as long as we plan on calling river. Our range is pretty weak when we check flop/call turn so I'd expect a river bet quite often from bluffs. No point in calling turn if we are just going to fold a ton, especially since your only read is that the guy is reggy (I assume this means you believe he's a thinking player).

We don't beat TT but yeah I agree in general. I don't know that I can say he's thinking on the same level as us, but yeah I have to assume he's not as horribad as the average player lol.
 
Mr Sandbag

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Wow. Not sure why I said TT. Now my advice looks stupid.
 
Figaroo2

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Q94 rainbow is a standard cbet for me it's tough to hit that flop hard and I agree that plenty of lower pairs are calling the flop to see if you barrel and I definitely don't want to give a free card to something like JT.
AA you played it fine imo.
He's a fish, he missed value not at least min raising his flush and he previously called in the SB with an easily dominated trouble hand like KQ. The stare sounds like it might turn into a tell as well.
 
Matt Vaughan

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Q94 rainbow is a standard cbet for me it's tough to hit that flop hard and I agree that plenty of lower pairs are calling the flop to see if you barrel and I definitely don't want to give a free card to something like JT.
AA you played it fine imo.
He's a fish, he missed value not at least min raising his flush and he previously called in the SB with an easily dominated trouble hand like KQ. The stare sounds like it might turn into a tell as well.

To be clear, I wasn't checking back A9 because I thought I was behind very often, more because I thought I wouldn't be called a ton by worse. Qx, 9x, and some draws continue, but at the time I assumed that would be about it. I was planning to bet virtually all turns when checked to aside from pretty bad ones like Kx.

AA hand, I don't know that he really missed value if he thinks I'm a good player. In general against the player pool he probably would have missed value though - definitely agree with you there. But against a decent player, if he x/r the river his hand just looks like a flush 100% of the time - usually the nut flush. So if he has QJss (blocking almost every worse FD I could have, but allowing me to still have some combos of the nut flush), it's hard to see how I could ever call with worse.

I would also strongly contend that his SB flat with KQo is fine against a relative unknown. People are so bad live that I'm only really folding KQo from any position to a single raise if I know the guy's opening range is tight, or it's very unusual sizing or some kind of physical read comes into play.
 
Matt Vaughan

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I've been pretty down about poker the last couple of months. Coming off the wsop high, running meh, playing slightly above meh, and just having a lot of difficult work and personal stuff going on has made me feel really down about playing lately. I've been less excited about playing even when I have the time, which sucks. I want to want to play, if that makes sense.

So I've taken more time for myself at home on weekends, involved myself more on the home games side than doing casino hours, and just overall have let studying drop to a minimum. At some point I know I'll get some of this stuff sorted and my motivation will swing back along with my time. But for a while, it's been rough.

But I was recently re-watching some hands from the MSPT event I final-tabled. On top of that, this is a thing and I'm pretty excited: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok...es-poker-tour-mspt-2016-a-301395/#post3200151

Cardschat is a media sponsor of the MSPT, so go send some love! I also posted in the thread with my plan for the rest of the year, which as of right now is exclusively MSPT events. That got me excited, but I also happened to notice that of the next 5 venues, I have MSPT cashes at 4 of them (Running Aces in Minnesota being the odd one out). It reminded me that I have a pretty good tournament track record, but also got me pumped and wanting to do well. I haven't had that kind of excitement about poker since the WSOP, so it was just fun to think about.

I don't have unrealistic expectations. I am well aware that I could easily brick all 5 of these. But soft fields and a hunger to win have me chomping at the bit. Maybe all I've been doing is biding my time. I know the thread has been a bit dead as of late, so don't get your hopes up and expect the thread to suddenly explode.

... Unless I bink of course.
 
B

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thank you for that stuff and the pics of the bathing pics of thewomen lol
 
Beanfacekilla

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I've been pretty down about poker the last couple of months. Coming off the WSOP high, running meh, playing slightly above meh, and just having a lot of difficult work and personal stuff going on has made me feel really down about playing lately. I've been less excited about playing even when I have the time, which sucks. I want to want to play, if that makes sense.

So I've taken more time for myself at home on weekends, involved myself more on the home games side than doing casino hours, and just overall have let studying drop to a minimum. At some point I know I'll get some of this stuff sorted and my motivation will swing back along with my time. But for a while, it's been rough.

But I was recently re-watching some hands from the MSPT event I final-tabled. On top of that, this is a thing and I'm pretty excited: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok...es-poker-tour-mspt-2016-a-301395/#post3200151

Cardschat is a media sponsor of the MSPT, so go send some love! I also posted in the thread with my plan for the rest of the year, which as of right now is exclusively MSPT events. That got me excited, but I also happened to notice that of the next 5 venues, I have MSPT cashes at 4 of them (Running Aces in Minnesota being the odd one out). It reminded me that I have a pretty good tournament track record, but also got me pumped and wanting to do well. I haven't had that kind of excitement about poker since the WSOP, so it was just fun to think about.

I don't have unrealistic expectations. I am well aware that I could easily brick all 5 of these. But soft fields and a hunger to win have me chomping at the bit. Maybe all I've been doing is biding my time. I know the thread has been a bit dead as of late, so don't get your hopes up and expect the thread to suddenly explode.

... Unless I bink of course.


I can really relate to the motivation issues you describe. In June and July combined, it was over 250 hours at 1/2, only making $500 or so. June was -$300 and change. There was a lot of run bad, a little "meh play" as well.

It was really really tough to go in there and put hours in.

However, I can honestly say that downer really made me a better player.


And you are a heck of a tournament player too bro.


And yes, you will bink, soon. Your posts have helped a lot of people (including me) over the years. So get motivated.

Looking forward to the imminent, and inevitable binks to come....
 

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Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

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Was going to post something fun and motivational about upcoming MSPT stuff, and then had probably my worst poker call of all time. I guess it might be tied with some other stuff, but still. I don't even understand why or how I do this to myself, but I do. So posting this for the public shame, and so I can feel even more like garbage than I already do right now.

Location: Regular Home Game
Stakes: Uncapped 1/2 NL/PLO/PLO8
Dynamics: Villain in hand is tricky, bluff-happy, and a good hand-reader. We're extremely deep (~1.7k).


Preflop: UTG limp, EP makes it $10, there's a call, and a loose, splashy player in MP makes it $35. BTN calls, I call in the SB with :ac4: :jd4: :7c4: :2c4: and original EP raiser calls.

Flop ($150) :kc4: :9c4: :8c4:
I lead $150. Folds back around to BTN, who tanks for maybe 45 seconds (he takes a long time very often), and calls.

Turn ($450) :jh4:
I lead $380, and villain again tanks for about 45 seconds before calling.

River ($1,210) :8d4:
Yes, that is one of the worst cards in the deck for me. I tank for 20-30 seconds and check. Villain takes another 30-40 seconds and moves all in for $954. He's certainly capable of bluffing in big spots, and turning made hands into bluffs, but it's just so hard for him to not have a boat here.

But yup, I took probably 2 minutes with it and made an absolutely, mind-bogglingly horrendous call just to get shown the good ol' KK54.

Granted, it's not like he's getting an amazing price on the turn, but if he has implied odds to my stack, his call is okay. It's pretty ****ing gnarly though because he needs about 3.38:1 to make the call if he knows I have a flush. Occasionally I'm also running a big bluff with just the Ac, and he's not going to get paid on the river. Let's call it maybe 10% of the time (seems like a reasonable frequency).

So he has to call $380 into $830, and he'll make his hand ~23% of the time. 90% of those times, he gets paid off, cause I'm horrendously bad, and 10% of the time he just wins the pot because I was bluffing and I give up on the bad card. Let's say I fire the third barrel on brick rivers too and he's just going to fold brick rivers.

EV(his call with KK54) = (0.23)*((0.9)*($1,784) + (0.1)*($830)) - (0.77)*($380)
EV(call) = (0.23)*($1,605.60 + $83) - (0.77)*($380)
EV(call) = $388.38 - $292.60
EV(call) = $95.78

So a couple big assumptions here. First is my bluffing frequency. Obviously, the lower my bluffing frequency, the better for him, since he gets paid off more often.

Since I'm over-caffeinated and still annoyed about this hand I started playing around with a spreadsheet that lets me input a few things, and spits out the overall EV of the villain's turn call. The constants are things like the pot sizes, bet sizes, and how often the board will pair. The variable things are stuff like how often I'll have bluffs, how often I'll show up with quads when the board pairs, and how often I take certain lines with the specific hand types when the board does or doesn't pair. (For example, I'm never x/c the river with the bare Ac when the board does anything, but I may sometimes shove the river with the bare Ac when the board doesn't pair.)

From playing around with some values, I think absolute best case scenario for him is that his call is +EV to the tune of +$200 (when I'm never capable of folding the river when behind, and when I don't successfully bluff rivers even when the board doesn't pair). Worst case scenario, he's losing roughly $100 by calling. Not the most horrendous thing in the world given the potential upside I suppose.

With what I consider to be realistic numbers based on how often I spazz call here (way too often), his call is definitely profitable, most likely in the +$60-100 range. Basically while I still feel really shitty that I'm making this profitable for him, I can at least be pleased with how I played flop and turn, creating a small enough SPR that his implied odds aren't handing him quite as much EV as it felt in the moment.
 
H

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On the reading hands point; I've been told by many dealers I am the best hand reader they've seen. One main key to reading hands is obviously you have a set time of play you are going to play. One hour is not enough time to read your opponents hands. Sometimes it can be for certain opponents such as the aggressive ones who play every hand. Two hours is probably the best amount of time to follow everyone. Another main point for reading hands to keep in mind is to simply don't read your opponent at all; because you are playing what you want. If you want that flush or straight; place it in your mind that you want that flush or straight no matter what if your opponent is strong or not. Play hard and aggressive because you know what you want; or be a caller which both costs you money if you don't hit. For a bonus tip, if you ever catch someone bluffing and they show the bluff, always call them if you have a pair of Aces or two pair or more. That's call making your read already. Now they may be strong for the first time and beat you, all that means is they bluffed and showed the one time, to try and win a huge pot the second time. So in reality, their plan worked. Most bluffers try to bluff again, so call their bluffs. :)
 
Matt Vaughan

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Yet another one reading the very first post (if that), and ignoring the last 50 pages. :rolleyes:
 
BenjiHustle

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Yet another one reading the very first post (if that), and ignoring the last 50 pages. :rolleyes:
Lol but the rant is real.

Hey, I don't understand the numbers without you having explained them, so thank you for that. All things considered, though, they're at least partially based on your opinion, so I kind of have to disregard them since you're notoriously harsh (see "King of Moody Rants" for reference). It sounds like I can easily skew this to be in your favor. I think that you're in your own head and time and experience will correct it if you allow it.

All things considered, bad call.

All things considered, too much money on the table in a 1/2 game. Especially if you're not sure you're stacking each and every player. Is Omaha your game now?

Who believes in you, friend?

<3
 
Matt Vaughan

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Definitely need more Benji in this thread!

I could go on an even longer rant about why I chose certain frequencies for analyzing that hand, but that would get boring af quickly lol.

I'm definitely not auto-stacking every player in that game, but people make gigantic mistakes deep-stacked (though sometimes myself included). It doesn't help that it's the only game anywhere on a Friday night aside from casinos that are much further away. I tend to kill it in the NL rounds, and struggle more in the omaha rounds since people reraise and pot it postflop way more in the omaha rounds and pots just get enormous. My mistakes are amplified and I make more bad decisions because...


Omaha is definitely NOT my new game.

I enjoy playing it, and playing it shallower I definitely have a big edge, but there are a lot of spots when deeper where I am just giving people way too much in the way of implied odds in similar spots like that. I still make the same class of mistakes in NL, but it's less often because I have so much more experience in the game, trust my reads more, and just play better in general. I think I have a decent edge in the NL rounds even with my gigantic mistakes, but in omaha I'm probably breakeven or slightly losing when you account for those calling mistakes while deep-stacked. We also don't start omaha until later in the night when people tend to be deeper anyway.

Other news from this week: I busted 4 shots at the MSPT satellite, but still getting pumped to play, as the main event structure is like 2-3x better than the satellite structure, and even with my recent MSPT drought, I've got a sick track record to try to upkeep. Even had a dream last night about playing 3-handed at the final table lol. I've also been watching some of the old live streams, and might post a few hands to analyze. Other thing I've considered doing is recording a video of myself commentating over the footage. Would anyone actually watch such a thing? I used to do live commentary and session review of my own sessions back in the day for fun/to get better, and I enjoyed it, but I probably won't bother unless I think someone else might actually watch it.
 
Jillychemung

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Other thing I've considered doing is recording a video of myself commentating over the footage. Would anyone actually watch such a thing? I used to do live commentary and session review of my own sessions back in the day for fun/to get better, and I enjoyed it, but I probably won't bother unless I think someone else might actually watch it.

I'd watch it, maybe not right away but would def watch at some point (have a number of weekend shifts coming up at work)
 
Matt Vaughan

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I've been too annoyed to post in here yet, but finally here's the update:

The MSPT has been cancelled this weekend. I don't have a lot of details, but the gaming commission apparently changed some of their requirements for HoChunk hosting the event about 3 weeks ago. HoChunk and MSPT met the new requirements, but the gaming commission did not approve them. So the tournament was cancelled about 24 hours before the first Day 1 flight.
 
Matt Vaughan

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Best part is that I fired 4 unsuccessful satellite shots lol. So I'm out one full tourney bullet and I didn't even get to play the event! :D
 
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AK i make it significantly bigger, like we could almost shove if we wanted,
AA i want to fold river but still call in game.
 
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