Live Grind: How to Fall Asleep at the Table (Without Getting Caught)

[Matt Vaughan]

Thanks for input guys. I wouldn't have thought of chip stuff being a problem, but this is also starting as just a $1/$1 game and a $30 sng so it didn't even cross my mind people might do that =\

Not sure how to combat it though? Any chip set I get would be pretty generic - I'm not gonna spend hundreds on custom chips.

Besides, doesn't marking them only allow me to tell when someone has brought chips in? Not actually who? So I'm not even sure if that helps.


Been leaning toward second table. Felt comes in red, green, black, blue for each.

 

[duggs]

Games iv played in had stickers made for them, just knowing that the chips can be identified should be enough to prevent it

 

[Matt Vaughan]

I bought the chips cause I like how they look =(

Did they just get some generic stickers that were the right size? Cause that seems to have the same problem.

 

[duggs]

na they had their names on it

 

[Matt Vaughan]

So they bought customized stickers then??

 

[duggs]

thats what i said...

 

[Matt Vaughan]

There's a diff between getting blank labels and marking them vs. buying customized stickers!!

Also, in other news, struggling not to want to get this table:

http://www.bbopokertables.com/the-lumen-hd-poker-table.html

So smexy.

 

[tenbob]

Get blank stickers and initial them , it's just an identifier really.

 

[duggs]

def put your faces on the stickers.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Bought white labels. If anyone wants to make or find me a design that'd be cool

Otherwise prob just gonna hand-write my initials or like my apartment # on it or something lol.

 

[Logan2]

@Logan: Just one table running as I'm back in the private game. I usually end up starting the game like 4-5 handed but I'm often the first or second seated at the table. It sucks because even though I have stats on most people I sometimes get a really shitty seat draw like last night.

And it's not about "making a stand" exactly? I took a pretty reasonable hand to 4b and did so as an adjustment. He happened to have a hand he wanted to call with this time. I don't understand how the turn is a bad card to jam? Turn is like the nut card for our range. KK+ and AK is 100% in my 4b range and JJ- probably isn't. QQ is questionable. So my entire value 4b range (at this point 21 combos) is doing quite while and would ALWAYS jam here.

I'm not sure what you think his range is and why you think a K would be good for it. You can't put him on like AK that much when he flats the 4b (doesn't gii pre) and then calls flop. Plus what blocker are you talking about?? I assume you don't mean the 3. And the only thing our A blocks is AK

You are facing a 67/17 3B:14 fish and because is a fish we don't know how elastic is his calling range to 4b's OP, we only know for sure that his gap is huge meaning he like to flat a ton.
Been oop we should adjust by tight our range and go for value as why will 4b bluff oop a villain who love to flat. I give him a 3b range of 77+/A8s+/K9s+/QTs+/TJs (14.2%), A3o is 39% vs that range.
what i mean with the blocker is that we got a blocker for Ax, which mean more often he will have PP's or Kx, so gii on a King turn is not that great for us, it don't matter if the king hit our range or not,
villain is a fish he is not thinking in our 4b range or combos but looking his cards (calling 100bb shove in a 4b pot with TT on a K turn prove that as he is crushed by your 4b value range).

Notice that i take his entire 3b range to calling the 4b as we don't know his 4b calling range but even if fold part of him, when flat most likely drop the Qx part and some lower Kx/middlePP but still will keep at least TT+/AK/(some times AQ/KQ), so still turn is not great for us as beat us with all his calling range (except AQ).

That is what i think, probably wrong but i'm in a lower level (strategy and stakes) than you and that is how i see it.

idk what you mean with the private game part.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Lol. Um. I don't know how to explain it otherwise, cause I was in this game for ages before and you never said you were confused by it?

But anyway, I get what you are saying about his range preflop and yes 4betting is probably a bad adjustment because of that. But I think it's kind of a stretch to assume that MOST of his flop calling range likes a K on the turn.

Just because he's a fish doesn't mean he's calling pre with any Ax and peeling flop when he completely bricks?? Like maybe he does, I don't have a big enough sample to even have seen him in a 4b pot before this one.

Like maybe he peels bare Ax on the flop, but even fish don't usually like peeling K high on a rag board in a 4b pot. I just don't think he has much but PP's in his range when he calls flop. So it just comes down to whether he folds those enough to fill out our equity with the 9 outs we have to improve. We obv know NOW that he doesn't, but most reasonable human beings at least THINK before calling the turn here. Especially because fish always want to put you on AK when they put you on a bluff on the flop.

 

[Logan2]

Is not that i'm confused, is just that i don't remember, i remember you was playing live before and then playing zone on bovada and now playing regular tables on bovada, so when say private game i only can think on a private live game but hand have stats, so it is online and no idea if bovada have private tables like Stars home games, but if can't explain is fine, no need to laugh

Anyway, i think the issue with the hand is that you keep leveling fish like type 1 players when they are type zero, if fish think you are 4b bluffing pre never will change his mind in the hand, he just think you don't have it or will fold pre (or maybe he flat to set mine and can't let go who knows) the thing is we mostly going to be behind there vs a 4b flat,
so if 4b bluff pre bricks just let go, or what hands exactly we think villain could have on turn that we still beat when villain flat a 4b? that was my point when say k is not good for us.

And if you actually put him on a PP only and still shove turn expecting he fold because the K, then is too optimistic because we don't have much FE vs a 67/17 in first place, the huge gap is telling he don't like to fold pre, and he not fold to the 4b bluff too, so is more likely not fold to the turn jam. so you try to amend a mistake pre by making another which end on lose a stack when could just fold to the 3b or let go after he flat, but like you mention get little lost when hit and gain some equity.

You mention a lot that in general we go too far vs fish just because are fish, same way i think some times you give them more credit than they deserve, even you mention he snap turn so he not even care to think, and i imagine you was thinking there, "great this hit my range and maybe he think that i ... " and he was "come on dude i got overs on flop just gii want to feel the rush!!!!"

Or maybe was a superuser and see your cards

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Sorry didn't mean to be rude! It's a private online game, you're right, and it's not through Bovada. All that really matters is the hand though

I hear what you are saying Logan. I probably gave villain too much credit for thinking. Tbf I don't really think anyone is really on level 0, or EXACTLY level 1. Almost everyone TRIES to think about the hand at least a little when they are playing for $200 at a time.

That being said, I shouldn't be projecting my own thought process too much on players who are so weak and even if they are trying to put me on a hand, won't do it accurately. Thanks for pushing back on that.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

1. We like or no?

BB: 202.5 BB (VPIP: 37.17, PFR: 15.93, 3Bet Preflop: 4.26, Hands: 114)
Hero (CO): 184.5 BB
BTN: 164 BB (VPIP: 48.99, PFR: 8.50, 3Bet Preflop: 4.13, Hands: 458)
SB: 14 BB (VPIP: 40.45, PFR: 17.52, 3Bet Preflop: 9.55, Hands: 498)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 6:spade: 6:diamond:

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, SB calls 2.5 BB, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (9 BB, 3 players) J:diamond: 4:club: 3:club:
SB checks, BB bets 4 BB, Hero calls 4 BB, fold

Turn: (17 BB, 2 players) 2:club:
BB checks, Hero bets 10 BB, BB calls 10 BB

River: (37 BB, 2 players) A:spade:
BB checks, Hero bets 35 BB

2. Weeeeee

BB: 14 BB (VPIP: 40.72, PFR: 10.05, 3Bet Preflop: 1.05, Hands: 225)
UTG: 117 BB (VPIP: 39.56, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 2.33, Hands: 91)
Hero (CO): 104.5 BB
BTN: 163 BB (VPIP: 49.88, PFR: 8.83, 3Bet Preflop: 3.94, Hands: 429)
SB: 90 BB (VPIP: 40.22, PFR: 17.24, 3Bet Preflop: 8.72, Hands: 470)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8:spade: T:spade:

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, SB calls 2.5 BB, fold

Flop: (7 BB, 2 players) J:diamond: 8:diamond: T:diamond:
SB checks, Hero bets 5 BB, SB calls 5 BB

Turn: (17 BB, 2 players) T:heart:
SB checks, Hero bets 13 BB, SB calls 13 BB

River: (43 BB, 2 players) A:spade:
SB checks, Hero bets 36 BB, SB calls 36 BB

Hero shows 8:spade: T:spade: (Full House, Tens full of Eights) (Pre 62%, Flop 21%, Turn 100%)
SB mucks 9:club: 7:club: (Straight, Jack High) (Pre 38%, Flop 79%, Turn 0%)
Hero wins 110 BB

 

[duggs]

1. not really, hard to articulate why but give your reasoning and ill try pick it apart.

2. weeeee

 

[Matt Vaughan]

I think my flop call is super-bad. No idea if I had a good reason in retrospect but I doubt it lol.

Turn I don't find bad because people will put a disproportionate amount of FD's in our range and even if they don't fold turn it seems like they will fold river. On the river, I think it's another scare card (to a fish). Even though it doesn't hit much of our range, it scares any Jx cause straight comes in and there's an overcard.

 

[Logan2]

i think will prefeer to x/r than x/c on 66
turn looks ok.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

I'm in position so I can't x/r. But fwiw I think raising is worse than calling, for basically the same reasons that calling was so bad I think it's an easy flop fold and I just screwed it up. It happens.

 

[Logan2]

Forget what i say, was in the phone and think was HU, Hero in sb vs bb, and that we x/c don't see was MWP.


​

 

[Matt Vaughan]

All good.

Been trying not to over-work myself with poker, and keep the fun in. Have been pretty good about not grinding when I don't feel like it and know I might spew, and I've been investing a lot of energy into getting my apartment ready for my home game, which I think should be a lot of fun.

It's frustrating though because I understand now better than ever that this isn't a game of short bursts and expanding bankrolls. It's one of hard work, dedication, a lot of hours, and a steady grind. Right now that's not me, but I'm hoping that once I feel a little more used to and happy in my job, I'll be able to have the emotional stability and desire to grind more poker.

I guess I can consider this as a half-break, since I'm pretty much being a recreational player atm. But it also sucks because I WANT to play more than I am, I'm mostly limiting myself because I'm trying to avoid -EV situations.

Meh. I had to do work at home this weekend. Only about 6 hours, but it really sucked, and I'm worried it was a glimpse into my future. But, I passed a big hurdle during that time, so I feel more on the right track.

I guess I'll quit rambling and let everyone go back to more important things. Hopefully I'll actually have some hands of interest to post soon.

 

[Jillychemung]

It's frustrating though because I understand now better than ever that this isn't a game of short bursts and expanding bankrolls. It's one of hard work, dedication, a lot of hours, and a steady grind.

+1

 

[Logan2]

I'm pretty much being a recreational player atm. But it also sucks because I WANT to play more than I am, I'm mostly limiting myself because I'm trying to avoid -EV situations.

So much this ^^

If find a way to play more without spew when forced let me know.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

+1

Just gotta keep reminding myself

So much this ^^

If find a way to play more without spew when forced let me know.

Haha you will be the first to hear of it from me


So some fun times: Bought a folding table from Walmart. Didn't test it in the store - big mistake. It collapsed with any pressure on it. Took it back and was refunded no problem. I tried another one, tested it in store and it wasn't as bad, but still wouldn't hold much if any weight.

Ended up buying one made by the same company but it was about 30% more expensive, and seemed much more solid. Still cheap though so that's fine.

Also, chip trays came today, which while a bit silly, I think gives a nice authentic feel

Still waiting on poker chip labels, which I'd prefer to come sooner rather than later, since it's gonna take ****ing AGES to mark all my chips. I'm thinking I might just hold off on bothering with labels until the second game. Who's gonna think to try to bring tons of different kinds of chips with them to make sure they bring the right kind?

Also still don't have the actual poker table yet - scheduled to come in about a week or week and a half. I also need to buy a few more folding chairs. Picked up a mini fridge and a few side tables to hold food and bigger drinks and phones and w/e people want.

Starting to get really excited, even though this is still almost 3 weeks away (and I've got a work trip and a visit from the gf in between)! :albertein

 

[Matt Vaughan]

AGGGGHHHH

UTG: 102 BB (VPIP: 77.61, PFR: 13.43, 3Bet Preflop: 5.13, Hands: 68)
MP: 238.5 BB (VPIP: 70.00, PFR: 21.43, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 70)
CO: 200 BB
BTN: 192.5 BB (VPIP: 76.47, PFR: 17.65, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 17)
Hero (SB): 111 BB
BB: 467.5 BB (VPIP: 58.82, PFR: 29.41, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB, CO posts penalty blind 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.5 BB) Hero has 5:club: T:diamond: Q:diamond: Q:heart:

UTG calls 1 BB, MP calls 1 BB, CO raises to 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, Hero calls 2.5 BB, BB calls 2 BB, UTG calls 2 BB, MP calls 2 BB

Flop: (18 BB, 6 players) 3:diamond: Q:spade: 2:club:
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, CO checks, BTN checks

Turn: (18 BB, 6 players) 5:diamond:
Hero bets 9 BB, fold, fold, MP raises to 18 BB, fold, BTN calls 18 BB, Hero calls 9 BB

River: (72 BB, 3 players) T:club:
Hero checks, MP bets 34.5 BB, fold, fold

MP wins 69 BB