Live Grind: How to Fall Asleep at the Table (Without Getting Caught)

zEric7x

zEric7x

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I think you misread what I wrote - I suggested it TO my friend. Not the other way round =)

hmm your right. I see that now. I try post when I am tired and misread things :D.

Have you read both of his books or just the first? I have both but I am reading the first right now.
 
BenjiHustle

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With the wait you have to endure for Bovada's HH, I feel as though HH review will be a little bit wasted (because you may not remember the hands with the smaller nuances that you wanted to pick up on). I do think that you would be able to recognize your more important/questionable hands, though, so you may be able to filter through them more easily.

I don't know how big you are on music, but I always play better if I get hyped with some music first. It gets my mind moving. Then I can watch a quick vid or a portion of a video and then play.

I definitely don't do this every time, though I likely should. I think the most important aspect, though, is to get your mind going with something that you enjoy before you get into a competitive mindset.
 
micromachine

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You guys prepare well, I just open a beer and get grinding :D
 
BenjiHustle

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You guys prepare well, I just open a beer and get grinding :D
I don't really drink. Have had a lot of run-ins with drugs and alcohol so I keep it low. I get my buzz on with a single pint these days. I was thinking that it would be nice to chill out over poker instead of making it feel like such a grind though. Just because I'm grinding doesn't mean it should feel as such. Perhaps a beer or two would be the ticket. As silly as you may have thought you were being, I think you just gave me an epiphany.
 
Matt Vaughan

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I've only had a drink and played once, and it wasn't even quite simultaneously. Tbh I just didn't like it. I enjoy drinking (not heavily), but even an almost imperceptible buzz normally becomes a nuisance when I play. I may not always play my A game but I still focus when I play. Any inherent decrease in my focus is honestly just a distraction - I notice I'm not as focused and that actually makes me enjoy it less.

Kind of weird maybe but it works for me - keeps me away from drinking and playing when I definitely shouldn't.

Tbf I'm sure micro was (mostly?) kidding but figured I would weigh in :D

Thinking about going fencing tonight. Will report back if I do, obv.
 
BenjiHustle

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Fencing? Like...
Swordfighting bro?

Effin' gangster.
 
Matt Vaughan

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Didn't end up going. Got a couch in the mail today and wanted to put it together. Pretty challenging to do as a one-man job, but felt great to just get it done. By the time I finished though fencing would have already been going 45 minutes, plus I hadn't eaten dinner yet. Maybe Thursday!

And yeh I don't think of it as that gangster, but I do love it. Really hope I'm able to get back into it although I'm starting to develop semi-consistent knee pain (my mom has terrible knees), so I'm a bit worried I'll have to give it up as soon as I start. Worth a shot though.
 
BenjiHustle

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I don't know, man. If I could chop someone up, I'd feel pretty G'd up. Best I can do is whip around some nunchaku.

Fencing is for fancy pants gangsters. :p

If you can put together a couch, you can stab someone. Mythbusters proved it.
 
Matt Vaughan

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Well I'm sorry if this disappoints you, but I don't slash people lol. I do foil fencing, where you can only score using the tip of the blade, not the edge. There are some pretty badass moves you can do though. My favorite, though I didn't have many occasions to use it, is the fleche attack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flèche_(fencing)). Cliffs are that you basically run at your opponent to run them through. Pretty ****ing awesome imo.
 
BenjiHustle

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Holy crap.


I'm gonna assume you know of this individual, but this video was deep. It's almost in a foreign language.
 
rifflemao

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I welcome all thoughts on these and any further recommendations. But particularly curious if anyone has any ideas for pre-session warm-ups. It's something I was never really able to do consistently, and there's such a wide range of things I can do with it that I think I struggle to pick one. I guess I could have a list, and each session cater my warm-up choice to what I feel I need? So let me know guys. :)

If you have an open mind, Elliot Roe's hypnosis mp3's may be worth investigating. More info here:

 
zEric7x

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Pretty ****ing awesome imo.

I honestly myself don’t have much exercise or physical activity. I just can’t think of something that makes it fun. I am glad you found something you like.
 
micromachine

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Kind of weird maybe but it works for me - keeps me away from drinking and playing when I definitely shouldn't.

Tbf I'm sure micro was (mostly?) kidding but figured I would weigh in :D

I wasn't lol, most of the time when I play I have a beer or two, don't get drunk or anything but I like to have a beer while I play. Don't think it affects my judgement negatively, as long as it's not more than two. It's the evenings when I work/study that I don't drink anything.
 
Matt Vaughan

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@Benji: I know of him but I don't know much. Yeah fencing is pretty sick.

@riffle: Interesting. Was disappointed it ended up being so advertising-oriented. Tbh it had very little effect on me, and I kind of didn't expect it to. I've taken a fair bit of psychology in college and learned about hypnosis, and had reason to believe that I wasn't the kind of person who is "open to suggestion."

That's not to say I don't have an open mind though. I can enter pretty amazing levels of relaxation/heightened awareness through meditation. But I take more of a here-and-now approach, using meditation techniques to bring myself more fully into the present. This includes not just my mind and body, but also my surroundings. It has led to relaxation, acceptance of current situations and future outcomes, and heightened awareness of the senses. That's not to say every time I meditate I feel this way. The longer the amount of time I spend (and the more often I do it), the greater the effect. But even 5 minutes before a session has seemed to be useful.

Btw, most of how I approach poker-related meditation comes from Tommy Angelo's materials. If you or anyone else hasn't looked into this, I really recommend Tommy Angelo's Eightfold Path to Poker Enlightenment series from Deuces Cracked. That series is amazing and I get something more out of it every time I listen to it.


@zEric: What things have you tried? I've always found some form of exercise I like - typically group/team-based things (soccer, ultimate frisbee, etc). Depends on my mood, sometimes I'd rather just run or do a little weight-lifting. But with fencing... It's hard to describe. It's not just exercise. The competition of it, facing off against a single opponent who you have to best physically but also mentally. I also find a lot of parallels to poker in it, because so much of it revolves around discovering tendencies and exploiting them, and then adjusting and counter-adjusting as your opponent does.
 
BenjiHustle

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Btw, most of how I approach poker-related meditation comes from Tommy Angelo's materials. If you or anyone else hasn't looked into this, I really recommend Tommy Angelo's Eightfold Path to Poker Enlightenment series from Deuces Cracked. That series is amazing and I get something more out of it every time I listen to it.
Does this have anything to do with the Buddhist Noble Eightfold Path? I may not seem it, but I'm actually a practicing Buddhist. Not a good one, but I put the knowledge to use.
 
Logan2

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I honestly myself don’t have much exercise or physical activity. I just can’t think of something that makes it fun. I am glad you found something you like.
I found P90x3 & T25 very fun, it take all stress out, is fun and keep me in shape, and only take 25-30 minutes which is great.

On the drinking beer warm up, i never get to like beer, i taste almost all and dont like the taste, so never was a beer guy, i do like red whine but cant drink it, so that warm up will never work for me.
 
BenjiHustle

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Drink gin.

And it's wine.

If you're big on whine, it's a problem. ;)

It seems as though the most important aspect of all of our warm-ups is actually a calming effect. Where most competition warm-ups get you amped up and excited, it appears that poker requires some calming pre-game techniques.

That said, perhaps you just need to do whatever calms you and gets you away from the distractions, bringing you into the present, as you've stated meditation does for you.

I have a couple 10 minute meditation sounds and such if you ever find yourself in need, though I doubt you will. :)
 
Matt Vaughan

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Does this have anything to do with the Buddhist Noble Eightfold Path? I may not seem it, but I'm actually a practicing Buddhist. Not a good one, but I put the knowledge to use.

Yes, when he heard the DC series were 8 episodes long, he wanted to model it after the Noble Eightfold Path. It's not a perfect correlation of course, but it's reasonable.

I've always been fascinated by Buddhism, and my last semester in school I was able to take a course on it. It's funny, because while I push back very strongly on some of the concepts, Buddhism as a whole really speaks to me. And besides, most of the things I don't agree with in Buddhistic teaching comes from the fact that it's an old religion - much of the stuff I don't agree with is simply because of how I view the universe from a scientific perspective. But with a philosophical approach, Buddhism absolutely captivates me.

I found P90x3 & T25 very fun, it take all stress out, is fun and keep me in shape, and only take 25-30 minutes which is great.

On the drinking beer warm up, i never get to like beer, i taste almost all and dont like the taste, so never was a beer guy, i do like red whine but cant drink it, so that warm up will never work for me.

Always heard good things about P90x, but I never wanted to spend money on it. Too worried I wouldn't use it enough to make it worth it.

Drink gin.

And it's wine.

If you're big on whine, it's a problem. ;)

It seems as though the most important aspect of all of our warm-ups is actually a calming effect. Where most competition warm-ups get you amped up and excited, it appears that poker requires some calming pre-game techniques.

That said, perhaps you just need to do whatever calms you and gets you away from the distractions, bringing you into the present, as you've stated meditation does for you.

I have a couple 10 minute meditation sounds and such if you ever find yourself in need, though I doubt you will. :)

Kind of going back to Tendler here, I'd say it's not necessarily the calming aspect - I think that's a byproduct. Imo it's about getting yourself into the right balance of emotion to maximize your decision-making ability. That means a balance of stimulation and relaxation. For "other competitions" I assume you mostly mean sports. I would argue that athletes, while they do get themselves amped up, are still tracing that line of balance between being too relaxed and too excited. High-performance athletes do a lot of mental prep.

Curious about your meditation sounds, but that sounds closer to hypnotherapy than what I would typically consider meditation. Tbf though, I mostly focus completely on mindfulness meditation, and I guess there are other forms.
 
BenjiHustle

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Well crap, when I find the 3 specific audio clips I was referring to, I'll let you know. I can't find them atm (think I deleted, oops), but they created a super deep transcedent state for me. They worked best with headphones as the sound differentiates from side-to-side and almost rocks you into a calm peacefulness.

I did, however, find these spoken meditations. They were pretty relaxing, but they're basically like meditating with an instructor.

http://www.fragrantheart.com/cms/free-audio-meditations
 
BenjiHustle

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That's the stuff, indeed. What I had was more... I don't know the word... Less industrial sounding. Lol If that makes sense. Anyway, very very similar and works the exact same way.
 
duggs

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kinda surprised you two are into religion at all, figured you much more atheistic than that
 
Matt Vaughan

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Since when does being an atheist mean you can't be interested by religion? If you're an atheist I assume it's because you've done some minor examination of at least the larger faith traditions and determined that they're not for you and you don't believe in god. I spent the first 19ish years of my life being Catholic, so it's not like religion in general is completely foreign to me.

Besides, like I said, with Buddhism (for me anyway) it's more about the philosophical approach and worldview than it is about the explanations of how the universe works or any kind of worship. Though one can also argue that Buddhism comes much closer to just being a way to explain the world, and has little to nothing to do with worship (though kind of depends on what type of Buddhism).
 
Matt Vaughan

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This hand seems a little thin, but I don't really know how else to play it. This is on a reg table so the stats aren't accurate. BTN looks reggy, with something like 22/15, but folding lots to 3bets. SB is a super fish, running roughly 55/35, also folding a lot to 3bets though. Relevant history is that exactly one orbit ago I 3b both of them exactly like this (to pot though I think) and they both snap folded.


PokerStars - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BB): 209.1 BB
UTG: 61.1 BB (VPIP: 24.82, PFR: 14.39, 3Bet Preflop: 3.75, Hands: 17,847)
CO: 106.9 BB (VPIP: 26.48, PFR: 14.79, 3Bet Preflop: 3.46, Hands: 17,892)
BTN: 105.5 BB (VPIP: 31.07, PFR: 16.04, 3Bet Preflop: 4.92, Hands: 17,929)
SB: 62.1 BB (VPIP: 33.91, PFR: 9.82, 3Bet Preflop: 4.50, Hands: 17,964)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K:heart: J:diamond:

fold, fold, BTN raises to 3.5 BB, SB calls 3 BB, Hero raises to 14 BB, BTN calls 10.5 BB, SB calls 10.5 BB

Flop: (42 BB, 3 players) K:club: 9:diamond: T:heart:
SB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets 24.76 BB, SB raises to 48.1 BB and is all-in, Hero raises to 195.1 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 66.74 BB and is all-in



Here's a spot I'm not always sure how to maximize value. Since board was on the wet side I maybe could have bet flop, but at the same time my hand's not really vulnerable to anything and we still stack Kx coolers if I don't bet flop.

PokerStars - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 180 BB (VPIP: 31.01, PFR: 15.98, 3Bet Preflop: 4.91, Hands: 17,825)
SB: 67.36 BB (VPIP: 33.87, PFR: 9.81, 3Bet Preflop: 4.50, Hands: 17,857)
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 5.89, 3Bet Preflop: 4.41, Hands: 17,940)
UTG: 110.36 BB (VPIP: 24.79, PFR: 14.40, 3Bet Preflop: 3.78, Hands: 17,735)
MP: 191.28 BB (VPIP: 26.44, PFR: 14.78, 3Bet Preflop: 3.42, Hands: 17,788)
Hero (CO): 99.2 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q:club: Q:spade:

fold, MP raises to 3 BB, Hero raises to 10.5 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 9.5 BB, fold

Flop: (24.5 BB, 2 players) K:spade: K:diamond: Q:diamond:
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (24.5 BB, 2 players) T:spade:
BB bets 12.24 BB, Hero raises to 30.6 BB, BB raises to 89.5 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 58.1 BB and is all-in



You know you're running meh when you flop this and aren't excited to gii. I know I'm ahead of his range (sets, two pairs, combo draws, straights) but still got this sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach that it was always QJ.

PokerStars - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 95.3 BB (VPIP: 31.10, PFR: 16.05, 3Bet Preflop: 4.88, Hands: 18,121)
SB: 109.4 BB (VPIP: 33.96, PFR: 9.82, 3Bet Preflop: 4.52, Hands: 18,158)
BB: 111.9 BB (VPIP: 28.54, PFR: 5.88, 3Bet Preflop: 4.41, Hands: 18,244)
UTG: 57.76 BB (VPIP: 24.84, PFR: 14.38, 3Bet Preflop: 3.71, Hands: 18,037)
Hero (CO): 100 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T:heart: T:club:

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, SB raises to 9 BB, fold, Hero calls 6 BB

Flop: (19 BB, 2 players) T:diamond: 9:diamond: 8:heart:
SB bets 9.6 BB, Hero raises to 30.5 BB, SB raises to 100.4 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 60.5 BB and is all-in

Turn: (201 BB, 2 players) K:club:

River: (201 BB, 2 players) 2:heart:

SB shows J:spade: Q:club: (Straight, King High) (Pre 44%, Flop 65%, Turn 77%)
Hero shows T:heart: T:club: (Three of a Kind, Tens) (Pre 56%, Flop 35%, Turn 23%)
SB wins 197 BB
 
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