Is this based on previous reads/info? I never see anyone min-3bet with small pairs, especially from the blinds. In my experience, small pairs are usually limp/called or raised to $5 pre. Occasionally you'll see some players who actually raise an amount that doesn't give away their hand. But I never see the min-3bet with small pairs.
AQ, thats a weirdly specific read but given that seems fine.
TT, well i mean his range pre flop doesn't = his range for almost potting it on the flop, if he had bet 1/2 then we wouldn't be talking about this and that bet sizing allows us to make an exploitative fold, as all the worse hands in his pre flop range play the flop differently.
KTs, why are we giving him credit for being good in ep if his limping range is basically bad suited broadways? if he has QTs even in his range then he also has QJcc swell 9T/8T/JT we all free roll.
running into one of the 3 combos of QTs just isn't a big concern here and putting money in v Tx is awesome. I'm also not convinced he can't have 88/77 or that he finds a fold with bad draws like 2pair/pair+gutter
Good point on TT, and kind of what I was trying to figure out. I agree the sizing is a big part of it. Still not sure if flop is a definitive fold, but def close.
KTs: Again, I have no idea how much you play live, but when I say decent, I don't mean that they have solid preflop ranges necessarily. I'm typically referring more to postflop. Fwiw he was limping a lot from a variety of positions, and even open limping a fair bit. This is pretty standard for a lot of live regs, including some otherwise decent ones.
Also, I'm not saying his EP limping range is only bad broadways... I'm saying in this spot, when he limp over-calls pre and then donks into this board, he has purely value hands, and probably stronger than 1 pair hands, although I guess it's possible that he would lead QJ or T9 - I just didn't think so at the time. I also don't think you can extrapolate that he has ALL those hands AND bets them. Kind of just going on personal experience now, but I don't know what you expect me to draw on since I obviously don't have that-specific a read on a player that I'm not playing with every day. Can only see so many hands against players live in a room that regularly gets 15+ tables of 1/2 going.
You're over-generalizing my statement. I said people don't vbet THINLY (wide) in multiway pots on the river. And not every player has a moderate bluffing frequency there, no. But when both players in the pot with him check 2 streets back, if he's paying even a slight amount of attention, he knows our ranges are weak (yes I'm aware he's not thinking in terms of ranges). But he knows we're not strong. So I don't think it's a stretch to say he's bluff-heavy here. In fact I don't see how claiming a bad player is unbalanced at live 1/2 on the river is really ever going to be a stretch.
Edit: Maybe I got "super lucky" here and caught his only bluffing combo. I guess we can't know for sure. But it really didn't even seem that close to me at the time.
Is this based on previous reads/info? I never see anyone min-3bet with small pairs, especially from the blinds. In my experience, small pairs are usually limp/called or raised to $5 pre. Occasionally you'll see some players who actually raise an amount that doesn't give away their hand. But I never see the min-3bet with small pairs.
I saw him do it once and show down 44, and another time he basically said it aloud, and I didn't have a reason not to believe him. I didn't even view it as a 3b tbh. I saw it as a "pot-sweetener raise" where he just wants the pot slightly larger for if he flops a set, and maybe he gets some FE too. Not saying it's good, just saying that was my expectation. Fwiw (results-oriented), he was pissed after the AQ hand cause he had 66 and the board ran out with a 6 and he would have scooped.
Sorry to post-pone my 2/5 update, but figured I'd give a quick update from tonight.
I played for only about 2 hours tonight, and managed to dump a quick $500 at 1/2. Basically every spot was mega-standard except for these three:
1. Tilting middle-aged guy UTG makes it $8 blind. It folds to me in the HJ and I make it $20 with 87ss. CO calls, as does the raiser. Flop 852 two tone, I don't have any front door or back door flush draw. Checks to me and I bet $30. Folds to UTG, who makes it $75 with what looks like roughly $150 behind. I tank a while, trying to figure out what he's doing. His range is pretty wide here when he raises blind and over-calls a 3bet while tilting, but I'm not convinced his flop x/r range is wide at all. I call, planning to re-evaluate on the turn. Turn is an offsuit Q and he pretty quickly goes all in for $166. He stares me down for maybe 30 seconds, then retreats under a hood and tries not to move. I try to put him on any hand that value jams that turn after the over-card hits, and can only think of sets, which I block a little bit (since I have an 8). Flush draws are still out there, and that combined with him tilting and his physical actions made me call. I think it's a fold though. He showed 85s and I didn't improve OTR.
Pretty disappointed in myself for that call, but realistically I think the flop is a fold too.
2. MP opens to $20. He'd done this quite a bit recently, and it was clear he wasn't doing it with a purely premium range. We'd gotten into HU pots where he'd raised to $20, I'd flatted, and the flop would come KQJ or similar, and he'd be check-folding. So when he opens to $20, I think he's got a pretty wide, even weak, range. I flat with KJhh. We go HU to K22 and he cbets $40 into $40. I'm wary because he wasn't betting much postflop on earlier hands (although there was a spot where he checked a flop, I checked back, he bet turn and I floated, and he x/f river). I call with TP, and the turn is a 6. He quickly jams for $200. It feels so bluffy, but I'm gun-shy from losing a huge pot in Hand 1, and I feel like he might be making a stand with just a king. I even consider that he might value-jam worse kings, but I think more likely there's air. Like I said, I'm gun-shy though, and I fold. Villain asks if I want to see it, and I already know what that means... I say yes, and he shows 55 for one of the worst possible 1.7x pot bluff-jams in history.
Second hand in a row where I've completely ****ed up. And it's partially because of the earlier hand. I've never really had this happen before, but I had the thought "well I was wrong when I called it off for a $150 bet before, so..." Not ideal.
3. I've straddled. The table limps to me, and I look down at AKo. I bump it to $30 (perhaps a bit too small) with about $250 behind. First limper tank-CALLS. Second limper JAMS for what will be all in for me. Folds to me, and I think villain's range should have a fair number of PP's in it that aren't just KK+. JJ+ at worst I think. I call all in, and the UTG limp/caller folds. I gii vs. KK and don't improve. I don't rebuy.
Pretty annoying spot, made even more annoying by the fact that I didn't really know the player or see many hands he was in. It's pretty incredible to me even now that he doesn't open-limp but actually OVER-LIMPS KK in a straddled pot, second to act. He's basically BEGGING everyone to limp in behind him as each player gets a progressively better price. I don't see how I can realistically fold what is arguably the 3rd best hand in my range here when there is something like $90 dead in the pot on top of villain's jam. But it still felt mega-gross ofc.
I ran over to Sand to complain about my run bad and play bad, and watched some of his hands for a while. Maybe 15 minutes after I busted off my table, they were calling names for a promo where one name is called based on tickets you fill out every hour you're at a table. No one showed up for the first few names. I headed to the bathroom for a break, and as I was walking out, I hear my name called. I go up to the desk, and find out that because I'm not on an active table, or on an active waiting list, I'm not eligible to win.
There are a few particularly sickening parts to this:
- Had I stayed on my table, I would have won
- Had I put my name on another list, or played PLO (which I'd been considering) I'd have won
- The minimum winning was $200, the maximum was $500 + $500 tournament entry
Which really adds up to: if I hadn't made any mistakes on my table, I wouldn't have quit, and I'd have won the promo. So anywhere from a $700 to a $1,500 EV swing right there. Said like that, I really want to puke.
I put my name on the waiting list for 2/5 so that on the off chance that my second ticket (I'd only played for 2 hours) was called, I wouldn't get super-triple-bad beat. But alas, I waited around another 25 minutes as names were called, but eventually someone showed up to claim their prize. Some old nit at 3/6 limit. I was a bit annoyed, to say the least.
I opted to leave after that. I was pretty dejected, no longer about my play, but about the promo, and didn't think I'd be able to play profitably. The whole day was kind of a punch in the face, and I figured I would do better not playing any more for the night. I considered playing online when I got home, but decided against it for similar reasons, and instead relaxed for the rest of the night.
Couldn't believe they pulled one of your two tickets out of all the tickets entered since 5am. What's worse is we semi-joked about it while you were watching me nit-fold for 15 minutes.
Nights like that are annoying lol. We all have them. I would've tried to fight that ineligibility thing a bit, being a frequent regular and having just got up from a table you were at for a couple hours and would've already been on another list if not for a bathroom stop first.
I think the sizing in hand 3 was much too small for a game where ppl are opening to 20 bucks, given the amount of money in the pot at the time and that you're the straddle. I'd be bumping it up to something ridic likely with the intention of shoving most flops. I dunno. Hand 2 I lol snap, and you're right it does look quite bluffy doesn't it. If I'm folding in that spot then I don't know that I'd be playing KJ for $20 in the first place. Not sure what to make of hand 1, or the 3bet sizing. Isolating the moron on the cheap, with the expectation he will check/fold most of the time otf right. Whenever EP raises blind in a live game I usually expect to see a cold 4bet somewhere along the line. It never happens ofc (if not by me), but for some reason I don't stop expecting it. Unfortunately you made a bluff catching hand otf against a guy you didn't seem to have a great read on in terms of bluffing tendencies. It's more likely that your 8s are beat here than your kings are in the other hand, but the decision to call or fold I think just comes down to reads so I can't really advocate one over the other. If he's going to play any 2 diamonds like this you have to call imo.
Good thing poker players have short memories. Or are supposed to. One good session and it'll be like none of this ever happened.
Agree 100% DK. If I don't make that first call down with 8's (def a mistake given my read wasn't all that strong beyond him being tilted and a vague discomfort), I snap that KJ because he basically never has anything there, and then the rest just becomes lol-perfect.
Agree on sizing pre for the AK hand. In retrospect my head wasn't as clear at that point as I thought, and something like $60 or $70 would have been better. I guess at that point I might still have to call it off with AK, though I'm not really sure. The guy was fairly tight, but it still strikes me as bizarre that he's over-limp/jamming kings in a straddled pot.
Agreed on short memories as well lol. But I don't think I have time to play poker for the next week and a half at least - so I've got this memory for now
Edit: Oh, and I did go back up to the floor a few times to see if I could become eligible, or at least get a meal voucher or something, since it was pretty much complete bullshit. I mean I think there was literally 15 minutes during which I wasn't playing or on a list, tops. And obviously I was paying my fair share of rake last night, haha.
One last 1/2 hand from last night's session before I do my 2/5 update:
I have 92o in the BB and there are 3 limps to me. I check. Flop is 994 rainbow, and it checks around. Turn is an offsuit 3, and I check. MP limper bets $11, CO limper calls, I call, and the other guy folds. Three-way to the river K, I check, the bettor checks, and the caller bets $35. I fold since I lose to any 9x that's not the same as my exact hand. The other guy folds as well.
Well it finally happened. I took a $500 shot at 2/5, with the plan to top up $300 at most. As expected, some interesting hands came up.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I played 1/2 for a while and was up about $200, so I just bought in with the chips I had in front of me - $516. I got onto the 2/5 must-move game at about 1am, but wasn't tired, as I'd slept in late that day. I was completely card dead for the first few orbits, but I didn't really mind sitting back and watching the table play. It was more aggressive on every street than 1/2, and bets into multiway pots did not always represent strong holdings. It was instantaneously clear that people were hand-reading more than in a 1/2 game as well.
I saw my first chance to get involved with a marginal hand after maybe 30 minutes.
Preflop:
On the button, and in an uncommon occurrence, it folds to the CO, who limps. Because the CO basically has to be weak, limping in in LP, I opt to raise and try to take the pot down preflop, or go HU and take it on the flop. I make it $25 ($20 was the standard open-size), and both the BB and the CO call. We go three-way to the flop.
Flop: ($75) (3 players)
Given how terrible preflop ended in comparison with my plan, I essentially flop gin - a flush draw and a gutshot. Both players check to me, and even though it's not a great board to cbet generally, I have so much equity against a calling range that a bet seems mandatory with 6-high. I bet $50, and BB quickly goes all-in for about $250. CO snap-folds. BB is clearly one of the weaker players at the table - someone I could easily expect to see at 1/2, but more aggro than most 1/2 players.
The problem with this hand is that given my table image, he should expect me to mostly have overpairs when I cbet this wet board into 2 players. So he either has a hand that can beat that, or even worse, he can have draws and wants me to fold. If he has a higher flush draw (especially 7xdd) I'm in pretty bad shape. I decide to fold.
I lose a few hands where I raise or call a raise preflop and whiff entirely. My stack dwindles down to about $400, but I don't top up. I don't see much of a reason to, as I get more acquainted with the table. The extra $100 won't make much of a difference. Next spot I'm less sure about my play:
Preflop:
There are two limpers to me and I make it $30 to go, again on the button. The SB, an aggressive player I've played a little with at 1/2, makes it $75. It folds around to me, and I find myself getting a pretty ridiculous 2.7:1 on a call, IP. Villain knows I've never played 2/5 before, and perhaps I read too much into this, thinking he might be trying to push me around cheaply. I elect to call, leaving myself approximately $300 behind.
Flop: ($165) (2 players)
I flop insanely well, with top pair and an open-ended straight flush draw. Villain thinks for a while and bets $75. I posture for maybe 20 seconds and go all in. I see no point to waiting to put the money in, as I think turn play will get quite tricky, and I know I have amazing equity against villain's whole range. Villain tanks for about 3 minutes and folds face down. I don't show.
Thoughts?? I think pre is so-so, and the flop seems fairly standard.
One last 1/2 hand from last night's session before I do my 2/5 update:
I have 92o in the BB and there are 3 limps to me. I check. Flop is 994 rainbow, and it checks around. Turn is an offsuit 3, and I check. MP limper bets $11, CO limper calls, I call, and the other guy folds. Three-way to the river K, I check, the bettor checks, and the caller bets $35. I fold since I lose to any 9x that's not the same as my exact hand. The other guy folds as well.
63s: Seems fine, I guess. I'd probably fold pre, but I'm a nit obviously.
K10s: Postflop is perfectly standard, though if you get called you will definitely need to draw out. Preflop is one of those weird shot-taking spots where you start wondering if players are "just testing you" or are being aggro with dumb hands. I don't mind the call IP, but I'd tread pretty lightly post unless I smash the flop (which you did)
63dd, seems preeeetty loose pre tbh, much rather flat out fold or limp behind, as played b/f seems fine but gross. actually a guy having a 60bb stack makes me like betting less tbh.
KTcc what are we trying to accomplish by jamming that makes it better than calling? enticing better to fold? worse to call? still think we should be reloading as it makes post flop less icky in bloated pots. pre I'm fine with.
63 hand. I really cant see how you let that one go, especially after 3 betting pre and hitting a gin flop. Id personally be going with it and whats done is done. Not getting it in with fd's on the flop all the time, but with the preflop action and the way you played it, i think its not right to fold this flop.
63s: Seems fine, I guess. I'd probably fold pre, but I'm a nit obviously.
K10s: Postflop is perfectly standard, though if you get called you will definitely need to draw out. Preflop is one of those weird shot-taking spots where you start wondering if players are "just testing you" or are being aggro with dumb hands. I don't mind the call IP, but I'd tread pretty lightly post unless I smash the flop (which you did)
Pre is def bad on 63dd, and I wasn't 100% certain on pre for KTcc. Agreed on the potential confusion b/c of dynamics - because I know that all of them realize I've never been there before.
63dd, seems preeeetty loose pre tbh, much rather flat out fold or limp behind, as played b/f seems fine but gross. actually a guy having a 60bb stack makes me like betting less tbh.
KTcc what are we trying to accomplish by jamming that makes it better than calling? enticing better to fold? worse to call? still think we should be reloading as it makes post flop less icky in bloated pots. pre I'm fine with.
For KTcc, in retrospect I think I agree that a call is probably better, but I'm not 100% sure how I proceed on a variety of turn cards? Blanks? Pairing the board? My outs? But still seems a spot I can do better than jamming it in. A bit of a nerves, and a "I know I can profitably gii here" instead of a "let's make the most +EV play" moment.
And I def agree on pre for 63dd. Especially in a game I'm not as comfortable in yet. But while bet/fold sucks, I don't think I should be checking back really?
63 hand. I really cant see how you let that one go, especially after 3 betting pre and hitting a gin flop. Id personally be going with it and whats done is done. Not getting it in with fd's on the flop all the time, but with the preflop action and the way you played it, i think its not right to fold this flop.
Keep up, Vin, it's a 2/5 hand. I iso pre, it's not a 3bet. And I'm really not getting a good price tbh. Pot is $75, I bet $50, villain jams for $250. I have to call $200 to win 375, so not even quite 2:1.
As the night went on, I got a little more comfortable at the table. The fact that the other players were really just people and not vipers, helped. One more interesting spot came up at the must-move table, which was 6-handed at this point:
Preflop:
In the SB. There's one limper, and the HJ, a tightish player makes it $20. I flat and SB and limper both call. Three-way to the flop:
Flop: ($60) (3 players)
It checks to the HJ, who bets $55. Multiway, this spot is just going to get grosser if I continue, and when HJ sizes this way OTF, I expect him to mostly have value hands, so I fold.
I spent a long time observing, but eventually I did pick up a big hand, and even got paid off:
Preflop:
One limper to me, and I make it $20. I get one caller, and the aggro villain from the KTcc hand make it $45 in the SB (he's moved seats) - a VERY small 3bet. It folds to me, and I make it $110, which I think is a mistake. I should make it bigger because his 3b size is so small. The caller folds, and the SB flats.
Flop: ($245) (2 players)
**A quick note: I saw villain stack off top pair for about 70bb effective OTF in a single-raised pot about an orbit before**
Villain checks to me, and I bet $160. Villain make a min check-raise, and I jam all in for less than a full raise more. Villain calls.
Turn: (~$900) (2 players)
River: (~$900) (2 players)
I throw up a little in my mouth, and wait for the bad news, but villain doesn't immediately show his hand, so I say, "I have aces." Villain nods his head as though that's what he was expecting, and says, "aces is good." I turn over my cards, and he throws his into the muck.
He told me later he had JJ, and based on what I've seen of his play, I believe him. At the time he didn't know I was that tight, and my image got nittier as the night went on. We ended up playing the must-move game all the way down to 3 players with no one else joining. Eventually all three of us were able to move to the main game though. I found myself in a spot within my first orbit.
Preflop:
Folds to me in the HJ, and I make it $20. CO, BTN, and SB all call. BB, a player who seems competent, and who has a $3k+ stack, makes it $90. I am sitting on $1.3k and have a real decision here. While BB should usually have a hand here, it's also possible that he's squeezing since I did only open from the HJ and my range could be wide-ish. So folding seems out of the question. 4betting seems potentially bad though, since I'm about 260bb deep and know almost nothing about these players. I decide to flat. It folds to the SB, who calls.
Flop: ($310) (3 players)
SB checks, and BB bets $125. A pretty small bet, and my first thought was that villain might be trying to make a very cheap bluff. It's very obvious SB is going to fold based on his body language. I peel for the cheap price, planning to re-evaluate on the turn.
(In retrospect, I don't like my call, because I'm a new player in the game, and BB's image of me is likely fishy. So both his 3bet and flop betting ranges should be much more value-oriented.)
Turn: ($460) (2 players)
BB looks at me, and we lock eyes, but I don't think he picks anything up, because he looks away relatively quickly, and goes into the tank. About 2 minutes later, he bets $315. The bet is much larger on the turn than on the flop, which I'm interpreting as him trying to get max value once he thinks I have something that can call. At this point I think he probably has an overpair and is likely putting me on some Jx and doesn't expect me to fold. So I tank for a bit, making sure I still think this is true, and then fold. He doesn't show.
I'm pretty happy with my interpretation of his sizing on the flop and turn, but I'm definitely open to hearing thoughts on this. I think the flop call was a small mistake, but I'm happy with my turn play, that I didn't get spewy and try to be a hero.
I went pretty card dead after this point, with not even any marginal hands to get into pots with. But again, watching the play was pretty entertaining and eye-opening at times. Eventually, with the game only 6-handed, I picked up solid starting cards.
Preflop:
The straddle is on, and there're two limpers to me on the BTN. I make it $35 (a little too small imo), and everyone behind me calls. 5-way to the flop:
Flop: ($150) (5 players)
Everyone checks to me. My image is squeaky clean, but on a board so likely to hit someone, I'm inclined to check back one, and possibly make a delayed cbet to look like I checked back a monster on a dry board. I posture a bit, and check behind.
Turn: ($150) (5 players)
It checks quickly around to me, and again I take a little time with it before betting $70 trying to get any Kx to fold. I'm not sure if Ax folds, but my line looks pretty much like I slowplayed something but felt I had to bet the turn. Everyone essentially snap-folds.
I got even snappier folds than I was expecting, and when I threw my hand to the dealer face down, people did that whole calling out my hand, thing. One guy, a bit of a table captain type, calls out to me, "big slick down there, huh." It wasn't a question. I smiled inwardly to myself but didn't respond. "Cowboys?" He asked, with about the same amount of certainty. Others were chiming in, and everyone agreed that I obviously had KK, AA, or AK.
This hand actually made me feel really good, because it showed that I had a good handle on my image, and I was at least on the same level as my opponents, if not one higher for this particular hand. It didn't by any means suggest I would be owning this game, but it increased my confidence and made my feel like I could definitely compete in this game.
The game began to die slowly, but some of the worst players were left behind, so I was not keen on leaving just yet.
Preflop:
$10 straddle was on all the way around for a while, and we are 4-handed. I've been card dead for the past hour, not winning a single hand despite being 6-handed and less for that entire time. There is a loose-bad player on my left, a tight, fit-or-fold player across from me, and the aggro-ish player from the KT and AA hands on my right. I'm in the SB and the BTN limps to me. I complete the $10, as does the BB. The straddler, the tight player, checks, so we have a 4-way family pot:
Flop: ($40) (4 players)
I flop extremely well for my hand, but I don't really want to play it passively, so I lead for $20. The BB almost instantly makes it $60. The straddler quickly calls. What the hell is going on, I think to myself, as the BTN folds. I flat, and we go 3-way to the turn:
Turn: ($220) (3 players)
I turn a flush. But I'm wary of the straddler's hand, since his preflop range is any two non-premium hands, and he snap-called the BB's raise to $60 OTF. I check, as does the BB, after some grumbling (he was pretty vocal during hands, despite not speaking english particularly well). The BB SNAP-makes it $100. While this bet is only a little under half the pot, it still represents strength. I'd seen this player make bet after bet like this, and it was ALWAYS with value hands. I can't think of a single value hand I beat. I show my hand to the dealer (I'm in seat 1), and with some internal frustration, I muck my hand.
BB grumbles for ages, even asking, "you have a flush?!" But he eventually calls.
River: ($420) (2 players)
BB checks quickly, and the straddler SNAP-bets $200 this time. BB eventually calls, showing 86o. As the action ends, the dealer mutters to me, "that was a terrible fold." The straddler shows J2hh for a flush.
Even though I felt pretty confident I made the right fold, it still was nice to get to see the straddler's hand.
The night went on like this - 4-handed, but without me taking down any pots. We decided amongst us that we were playing another 30 minutes. It was about 5:30am at this point, so I was pretty glad to call it quits, even though the table was pretty soft. I did finally break my no-win streak by stealing the blinds and straddle preflop with QJo, but I still couldn't win anything bigger than $20. I did get into one more significant spot with a strong hand:
Preflop:
In the SB, and the aggro BTN makes it $25. I flat, which I think is a pretty standard defend, although it might be more of a 3bet just because I know we're going 3- or 4-way so often when I flat. The BB surprisingly folds, and the tight-guy straddler quickly calls.
Flop: ($85) (3 players)
I flop top trips - a sight for sore eyes indeed. I check, and the straddler unexpectedly leads for $25. The BTN thinks for a little while and calls. I almost want to fold here, since I'm extremely wary of the straddler's lead, but for $25 and with trips, I don't see how I can fold. I call, and we continue on to the turn.
Turn: ($160) (2 players)
I check, and the straddler snap-leads for $65. BTN calls, and I throw up in my mouth again for what seems like the tenth time this session. I once again flash my hand to the dealer, and I fold.
River: ($290) (2 players)
Straddler reluctantly checks, perhaps worried about clubs, and a bemused-looking BTN checks it back.
As the action ends, the dealer, who has now seen me fold a flush and trips on the turn, goes, "that might be the worst fold I've ever seen."
The straddler turns over ATo for trips, and the BTN mucks.
Again, seeing his hand, while frustrating, was extremely validating. It made me feel like I have the potential to do quite well, if I can increase the consistency with which I am able to maintain that discipline.
Sorry for all the hands at once, but once I started I just couldn't stop!! All input appreciated as usual.
Edit: Btw, can you guys see these cards as A9dd? For some reason I can't see the Ad, like ever.
AK is interesting, 4b/f is an option, as is calling or outright folding. flop looks like a fold or a raise. don't think this is a good hand or spot to float.
QQ is a weird spot, pre and flop is good, dunno bout turn. like it worked and stuff but i dunno how often it works or what majority of their ranges are.
63hh, turn is pretty sexy, unsure about bet/calling the flop after the other guy overcalls, tho i guess him being face up means we can vbet it pretty well.
A9o i call down tbh, way more weaker Ax hands in his range than strong ones, we basically lose to AJ/AT/A7/AQ and flush draws can still be out there as well as most unsuited Ax hands.
Thanks for thoughts, duggs. I agree 4b/f actually seems pretty sexy pre for AK. Agree 100% on flop.
QQ, again my image at that point was outrageously nitty (much more nitty than my actual play is), so it seemed fine, and people were cold-calling raises (and then over-calling) pretty wide, so it doesn't have to smash peoples ranges too much imo. It's so uncoordinated that I think it's okay to do in that isolated spot where everyone checks to me twice.
63hh, that's an interesting point about my flop over-call, and a fold might be better. I'm not sure how much we can narrow his flop call range, but it can't be uber-wide when he faces a bet and a raise.
Fwiw in A9, I obv couldn't be sure about this, but I didn't think he necessarily leads his weaker Ax, or at least not as often as his stronger Ax. Also I don't remember if there was a FD on board or if it was rainbow (my bad).
I also forgot to mention that aside from that stealing the blinds with QJ that I mentioned, I didn't win a hand during the last 2ish hours I was playing. The majority of that was 4-handed, with some of it being 5- and 6-handed play. This was also with a mandatory straddle going, so during 4-handed play it cost $17 an orbit, and orbits came around FAST. So I literally bled off my stack from about $950 back to about $600 all while playing fairly snug. So I was even happier with my folds in the 63 and A9 hands, since I didn't let myself get desperate to just "win a pot, dammit."
AA: As you said, 3bet bigger pre. But, assuming you were 100bb deep, kinda makes stack sizes awkward post.
AK: An argument can be made for 4betting pre while IP with AK. But it's a new table and you don't really have any info. No point in creating a bloated pot when so deep, and calling is pretty much always +EV.
Fold flop for the same reason - no info. You're just assuming he could be firing with air, and you're not drawing to anything except one pair hands or backdoor draws.
QQ: We discussed this hand already. Only one thing to add - raise bigger pre, at least $40 and probably $45.
63: Idk how I feel about it. You seem pretty confident in your read that his bet equals strength, but on the flip side, he's giving you a pretty great price as only 25% of his range there has to be non-flushes. I'm probably calling down assuming he doesn't completely bomb the river.
A9: I doubt I fold here either. I expect straddler to have lesser Ax hands (not A7 since he leads flop) or worse.
The main thing about the 63 and A9 hands, was that with this villain, I got to see him bet and get calls and make it to the river over, and over, and over. He always had unambiguously strong hands when he bet two or more streets. If he bet two streets into multiple players it was usually the near-nuts. He bet slightly worse for value when HU. But of all the times I saw him show down (he got called down a surprising amount), I never saw air or even semibluffs.
Edit: I should also point out that he tended to bomb it with vulnerable value hands (that might be up against draws), and smaller with nutted hands.
Hi mate, well played – been a while since I stopped by, so thought I’d chime in here.
1010 – looks good. Is there ever an argument for 3-betting to $65 here from the SB, getting the tight-ish player to fold AJ, KQ type hands? Tend to think flatting is best, but I struggle a little with 99 and 1010 in these spots. I guess we’re set mining more often than navigating post flop with an over pair to the board. After a raise and a 3-bet, will you fold or flat if situation was same as this hand?
AA – all nice. I quite like the 4bet sizing pre, you want him to call, not fold. Only thing is it may look like Aces to a villain who is less aggro, which he wasn’t.
AK – agree with flatting pre fine and folding flop is the go. Maybe even the outright fold pre (as duggs mentioned) is OK while you get a handle on the table.
Only half kidding here, but I read his hand as 1010, he’s a little worried about that J with his flop sizing, but his bet OTT thinks you are most likely drawing to a heart flush, rather than holding AK.
QQ – love it, you read the table like a book there. They checked to you twice and you risked less than half the pot, which also looks like begging to be paid.
63s – ugh, I can’t handle these spots at all yet. I’d probably play it the same or bet/fold the flop. I may even c/c the flop, but that isn’t good or anything, lol.
A9s – great fold, one of the best I’ve seen you make. It’s read dependent on villain’s value play which you described, you were there, we weren’t.
Nice to see you playing 2/5, at least for some insight as to how it plays. Are you staying there do you think, or building roll up some more at 1/2?
Thanks for your thoughts, stately. Good to see you back - was wondering where you'd gone.
As for sticking around at 2/5, definitely not. I may play it here and there, but I'm not even remotely rolled, and I took a beating at my last 1/2 session. So roll is sitting around 3.5k. Nothing wrong with that, still quite healthy, but I'll probably only be looking to risk a 2/5 shot when over 4k, and even when over 4k it'll only be once in a while. More to get a feel for the game, improve faster, and give myself a chance to run good and get a big boost, while limiting losses with a strict, pocket stop-loss.
Thanks scourrge, yeah work, life, etc. Wasn’t playing much live poker recently either – 2 disappointing 1/2 losing sessions kept me away for some weeks.
But past week and a half, went to casino for 4 semi-long sessions. First two break even, and next two made total of $503. Results orientated I know, but pretty happy with this minor break-through. (As I mentioned to my wife, it’s felt like I was first relearning how not to lose).
As for sticking around at 2/5, definitely not. I may play it here and there, but I'm not even remotely rolled, and I took a beating at my last 1/2 session. So roll is sitting around 3.5k. Nothing wrong with that, still quite healthy, but I'll probably only be looking to risk a 2/5 shot when over 4k, and even when over 4k it'll only be once in a while. More to get a feel for the game, improve faster, and give myself a chance to run good and get a big boost, while limiting losses with a strict, pocket stop-loss.
Your 3.5k roll is ideal for 1/2. Mine is not at 1.3k, but there are no live stakes lower – lol.
Seems a good plan for you to take a shot once in a while when you get to 4k+. I hear you re a strict stop-loss, with giving yourself the opp to boost roll and get a feel for those stakes. Thanks for sharing it here. Run good!
