Dara O'Kearney (Satellite Specialist) - Ask Me Anything about satellites/knockouts

[Dara OKearney]

Thank you because with your ideas and motivation in earnings strategy I feel proud and I hope to learn and become a player value as you thank you and greetings

Thank you Cesar, and good luck!

 

[MattRyder]

That's a really interesting question. I can't claim to speak for Tom or even necessarily know for sure what he exactly meant, but I can say I would make a similar remark and explain what I mean by it. A small part of it is that a lot of the strategy is very dull and mechanical (like fold everything beyond a certain point), but mostly it's just that because the mental challenges of a satellite are particular to satellites, most normal mtt players don't have much practice dealing with them. There are all sorts of mental game challenges specific to satellites that we were fortunate enough to have Jared Tendler contribute one chapter of the book on that cause people to set equity on fire in satellites. Bubbling a satellite is much worse than bubbling an mtt, and players who bubble a normal mtt can console themselves saying they were playing not to win cash but for the win. In a satellite, the min cash and the win are one and the same (except in rate cases) so the pressure not to bubble is massive. A lot of people can't take that pressure and try to "take matters into their own hands": they lack the discipline to keep making big folds because it feels bad and just prolongs the tension.

I hope this answers your question.

Thanks! I've had some success with megasats but never been able to quantify what I did right when I won and what I did wrong when I didn't. Some of them are in my mind the most lucrative tourneys I'll ever be able to afford. I have noticed the feeling that you describe at the end of your comments above. It may be a little easier for me to make those big folds (when I take the time to think about it) because I have such a terrible track record when holding AA & KK.

I'ver started reading your book but as recommended branched off to learn a bit more about ICM before going further. Thanks to Debi for hosting you here. Had you not come to Cardschat I probably would not have come across your very interesting book.

 

[Dara OKearney]

Welcome to our community, Dara!

At what age did you decide to take poker satellites seriously?
How did you get into poker?
Who was your biggest influence regarding satellites or did you have any influences?

Really interesting questions!

I started poker much later in life than most, at the age of 42. At the time, I was an international competitive runner but knew that age would put an end to that within a couple of years. I've been competitive all my life, I was also a top class chess and bridge player in my youth, and I was looking for something to take over from running. After extensive research (which amounted to seeing poker on TV one night and deciding that looked like something where age might not be a factor) I decided to take up poker, thinking if I worked hard at it, I might be competitive in 5-10 years. It happened a bit quicker: I was a winning player online from day one, and won my first big live event 9 months after taking up the game. Within a few months of that, I quit the day job and went full time.

For the first two years, I concentrated on sit and go's. As they started to get tougher online, I decided to transition to satellites, figuring the skill sets were similar and they were the softest online mtts. That proved a good decision, as over the next 3 years I made close to $1 million from satellites. So I was 45 when I switched to satellites.

My biggest influence is Tom Hall (known as Jabracada online). He was the only satellite reg who gave me serious headaches, and I spent many hours studying hands he'd played, and learned a lot from them.

Thank you for your questions!

 

[Dara OKearney]

Welcome aboard, the community is warm and friendly I am sure that you will have a great time here.

Very impressive Resume with the 8 PocketFives triple crowns.

For me personally I like Satellites. I always advise members that there different types of satellites and everyone should find a format that they comfortable with and keep practicing it. For me I like the one or two table short handed hyper sit n gos.

My question for you is what famous Marathon have you ran and do you an interesting or funny story about one of them?

Thank you for your kind comments and interesting question.

I took up marathon running purely as a recreational thing to get in shape, running the Dublin marathon once a year. Apart from that I only ran the Connemarathon, and Tresco (which I won once). My funniest story is from the one I won, but doesn't involve me.

The most famous participant in the race was a disgraced former 400m runner who had been at the Olympics. His career had ended with a drugs ban, and this particular year he was the subject of a feelgood TV documentary where he was going to transform himself into an elite marathoner by training, eating and living like one, and then winning this race (the softest marathon in the UK). This was rather naive since the body type needed to be a top class 400m runner is very different from that of a marathoner. He looked the part, and he charge off at the start, but quickly ran out of steam.

Tresco is a tiny island off the coast of Cornwall, so the marathon consisted of "figure of 8" loops around the island. Each lop was just over 3 miles so the race was just over 8 loops of the island. After his initial sprint, he found it a long hard grind to make it to the finish, getting passed by grannies on the way. As he lapped him for the second time, a runner I was friendly with gave him an ironic thumbs up and "encouraging" words:

"Just think of it as a series of 400m races, mates. 104 of them"

 

[BigRivers]

Im listening to your commentary at the Irish Open right now, thank you for your insight.

 

[Shells]

Really interesting questions!

I started poker much later in life than most, at the age of 42. At the time, I was an international competitive runner but knew that age would put an end to that within a couple of years. I've been competitive all my life, I was also a top class chess and bridge player in my youth, and I was looking for something to take over from running. After extensive research (which amounted to seeing poker on TV one night and deciding that looked like something where age might not be a factor) I decided to take up poker, thinking if I worked hard at it, I might be competitive in 5-10 years. It happened a bit quicker: I was a winning player online from day one, and won my first big live event 9 months after taking up the game. Within a few months of that, I quit the day job and went full time.

For the first two years, I concentrated on sit and go's. As they started to get tougher online, I decided to transition to satellites, figuring the skill sets were similar and they were the softest online mtts. That proved a good decision, as over the next 3 years I made close to $1 million from satellites. So I was 45 when I switched to satellites.

My biggest influence is Tom Hall (known as Jabracada online). He was the only satellite reg who gave me serious headaches, and I spent many hours studying hands he'd played, and learned a lot from them.

Thank you for your questions!

And thank you for answering! Enjoyed your snippet of history in poker, too!

 

[whiskers77]

Hi Dara,

I am very sceptic about satellites, maybe similiar like Debi, or even more.
Well, I have to admit, that I played already some and really got lucky about some.
But I am not a big fan of them. Often I think, better buy- in these, that you can afford.
But please just tell me why I should play them at all and to what percentage would you play them of your games. Maybe you also could give us some tips about playing them accordingly to some brm.
I look forward to your answers.

 

[hugh blair]

Awesome Dara nice thread satellites are easy in comparison its the 5000 to 60000 player fields that cause problems any plans on writing a new book about main events?
Wow you play a lot of them!
Wish you continued success and saying you started in your forties has given hope to a 39 year old here maybe still time when felt passed the prime.
What will your book do for me that a huge online free library like CardsChat can not do for me would be my question?
Asking this question in a positive way not being begrudging or mean spirited great to see you here really impressive poker results you have.

 

[Tammy]

I just wanted to take a moment and say hello and welcome, Dara! Really enjoying reading your responses so far, great stuff!

This gave me a good chuckle:

After his initial sprint, he found it a long hard grind to make it to the finish, getting passed by grannies on the way. As he lapped him for the second time, a runner I was friendly with gave him an ironic thumbs up and "encouraging" words:

"Just think of it as a series of 400m races, mates. 104 of them"

 

[daveshoelace]

Hi all, Barry Carter here, Dara's co-author.

As promised we are picking out some winners for an iBooks copy of the book. I've picked this one at random so well done BigRivers I'll DM you.

Dara has just been at the Irish Open but will be back to answer more questions and I'll do another draw next week based on questions asked this week onwards

What do you think the most important considerations for mid to late game strategy are when there is only 1 or 2 seats to win and a lot of players remaining?

You can be general, I really appreciate it

 

[Dara OKearney]

Welcome to our community, Dara!

At what age did you decide to take poker satellites seriously?
How did you get into poker?
Who was your biggest influence regarding satellites or did you have any influences?

First of all: massive apology to everyone for the radio silence last few days. I was flat out at the Irish Open. I promise to do better over the next few days.

I was 44 when I switched to satellites as my main game (I learnt poker late at 42)

I got into poker because I wanted to do something competitively where age wasn't a major obstacle. I'd played chess, bridge and backgammon competitively at a high level already and when I was 42 I was a top class international ultra distance runner but I knew the clock was ticking down on that. I saw poker on TV and thought it looked like something I could try my hand at.

Biggest influences on satellites are Colin Moshman (his seminal book on ZSit N Go strategy started my obsession with ICM which is the crucial strategic concept to understand when it comes to satellites) and Tom Hall, the best satty player I've personally faced.

Thanks for your questions!

 

[Shells]

First of all: massive apology to everyone for the radio silence last few days. I was flat out at the Irish Open. I promise to do better over the next few days.

I was 44 when I switched to satellites as my main game (I learnt poker late at 42)

I got into poker because I wanted to do something competitively where age wasn't a major obstacle. I'd played chess, bridge and backgammon competitively at a high level already and when I was 42 I was a top class international ultra distance runner but I knew the clock was ticking down on that. I saw poker on TV and thought it looked like something I could try my hand at.

Biggest influences on satellites are Colin Moshman (his seminal book on ZSit N Go strategy started my obsession with ICM which is the crucial strategic concept to understand when it comes to satellites) and Tom Hall, the best satty player I've personally faced.

Thanks for your questions!

Thank you for taking the time to answer, Dara!

 

[Dara OKearney]

what is your tips for making the final table more than once. because i think most people make it by luck of good hands being dealt.

I think you're right that it's mostly luck in the short term (and any one tournament is the short term), but in the long term if you make the right decisions you giver yourself more opportunities. So main tip is just keep working at improving, and focus on making the correct decisions rather than worrying about outcomes.

Thank you for your question!

 

[Dara OKearney]

Congratulations on your done !!
As for satellites, which is the most suitable for beginners, turbos, super turbos or regulars?

That's a really interesting question. For beginners, I guess the answer is super turbos. As a general rule the better the structure is, the bigger the edge of the winning players, so assuming beginners start off (initially at least) as losing players, then the faster the structure the better. The other advantage of this is you'll get to the push/fold stage quicker, which is the one of the easiest skills to acquire as a beginner.

Tourney structures are funny because almost everyone thinks the better the structure the better for them but this obviously can't be true (there's still the same number of winners and losers).

Thank you for your question!

 

[Dara OKearney]

Hi and welcome to CardsChat :top:

I have a question, if someone managed to advance from 0,02$ satty to 100$ prize in main mtt, what would be your recommendations about the acquired BR to be invested further on?

I'm not a massive expert in BRM but I would say whatever rules applied before still apply, by which I mean if you think you needed a $50 bankroll at your previous level, then when you add the $100 won you have tripled your bankroll. In theory this would mean you could move up to stake level three times your previous one, but in practise that's probably a little too aggressive. Variance is a factor of edge, so that the lower your edge the more bankroll (in buyins) you need, and usually your edge shrinks a you go up in levels).

Thank you for your question!

 

[Debi]

Hi all, Barry Carter here, Dara's co-author.

As promised we are picking out some winners for an iBooks copy of the book. I've picked this one at random so well done BigRivers I'll DM you.

Dara has just been at the Irish Open but will be back to answer more questions and I'll do another draw next week based on questions asked this week onwards

That is awesome - thanks!

First of all: massive apology to everyone for the radio silence last few days. I was flat out at the Irish Open. I promise to do better over the next few days.

I was 44 when I switched to satellites as my main game (I learnt poker late at 42)

I got into poker because I wanted to do something competitively where age wasn't a major obstacle. I'd played chess, bridge and backgammon competitively at a high level already and when I was 42 I was a top class international ultra distance runner but I knew the clock was ticking down on that. I saw poker on TV and thought it looked like something I could try my hand at.

Biggest influences on satellites are Colin Moshman (his seminal book on ZSit N Go strategy started my obsession with ICM which is the crucial strategic concept to understand when it comes to satellites) and Tom Hall, the best satty player I've personally faced.

Thanks for your questions!

No apologies needed when you miss a few days!

Collin is a friend of mine and his book is amazing. We will be doing an awesome collaboration with him and Katie starting very soon.

 

[Dara OKearney]

Hello Dara! Nice to have you with us here at CardsChat!

I put your book on my Amazon list. I will read it soon!

Congrats on the results! Well done!

What would you say to me if I said I wanted to follow you in your footsteps?

Thank you for your kinds comments!

What would I say to you if you said you wanted to follow in my footsteps? Don't!

Joking aside, I would say that it's both easier and harder now than it was when I started. Harder because people are generally better, so you have to reach a much higher standard to be a winning player (let alone winning enough to make a decent living), but easier because there's far more good content and information out there on how to improve (including resources like CardsChat).

 

[Dara OKearney]

Hello Dara,

I like Debi's question, but to add to it, what's the biggest differences in strategy between early stage satellites and and early stage MTTs?

Also what satellites do you think are the best value?, or easiest to win?

Thank you

Hi, thanks for the questions.

Biggest difference theoretically between early stages mtts and satellites is we should be following a lower variance strategy in a mega satellite where the first 10 or 20 or whatever prizes are the same (whereas in an mtt we are aiming for the top spot).

To that, I'd add that in practice you often find much weaker players in satellites, so you should be looking to play more exploitatively if that is the case.

The easiest satellite for any event is almost always the last mega sat before the event itself. By then, many of the best players will already have their seat and be out of the satellite pool as a result, and the weakest players who only want to take one shot are most likely to play that one.

 

[Dara OKearney]

Thank you for joining CardsChat and doing this Q & A!

My question: Late in an online satellite, let's say about 60 people left and 50 qualify for a ticket to the next tournament; you're sitting in the Top 3 chip stacks and nearly guaranteed a ticket...

Do you sit out or just fold until you qualify, or do you play as you normally would and try to knock some people out?

That's a really interesting question. We sometimes say "there's no right or wrong answer" in poker, but this is more of a "There are two right answers" most of the time. When you're totally locked up it often doesn't matter which option you choose, you'll get a seat either way, so it depends on other factors which one I'll choose. If it's online and I have lots of other tables where my decisions are important, I might just click the sit out button and let that one play itself out. On the other hand, if it's live and I want to get home, or the last game on my screen and I want to end my session, I'm more likely to try to knock players out to get it over with.

It obviously depends heavily on just how locked up you are and the other stacks at the table and how they're playing. There's a big difference being a Top 3 stack at a table where everyone has 20% of our chips and they're all hanging on, from being at a table with a few stacks near your size who don't know aces is a fold if you shove. You should obviously err on the side of caution in the second case.

 

[Mortis]

Thank you for answering my question!

Sent from my LGMS210 using CardsChat mobile app

 

[Dara OKearney]

Do you have like an EV mode to see if the satellite will be profitable or no, making an analyze of cost benefit between the cost per entry, number of the spots of the satellite vs field, facing the amount of the prizepool of the main event?
Tks for the interest at our comunity and welcome.

Interesting question and yeah there are a number of factors I take into account when evaluating a satellite:
(1) Number of strong players/pro to weaker players.
(2) Reg fee/hidden costs
(3) Desirablity/likely softness of target event
(4) Likely overlay

Thank you for your question!

 

[Dara OKearney]

When fold everything becomes call everything

What do you think the most important considerations for mid to late game strategy are when there is only 1 or 2 seats to win and a lot of players remaining?

You can be general, I really appreciate it

Interesting question, because these are two of the situations we talk the least about in the book.

What warps the strategy of satellites, particularly in the endgame, is the fact that there is a number of prizes of equal value. The bigger that number, the bigger the warp factor. For example, in a satellite with 20 seats and 21 left, if you have average stack in the big blind, and the small blind who covers you exposes his hand as 32o and shoves, and you look down at aces, calling is a mistake.

The corollary to this is that as the number gets smaller, the less effect ICM has, and the closer we should play to normal mtt strategy. In a satellite with two seats we should call a bit tighter than normal, but not insanely so. With 3 left in this scenario, aces would be a call usually (unless the third player is significantly shorter).

With only one seat, ICM disappears completely, and we should play pure cash game strategy (anything that makes us chips long term is correct). In this case if the small blind shoves any amount at any point and shows 32o, every hand is a call, let alone aces.

Thanks for your question!

 

[Dara OKearney]

Mixing it up

Hi Dara.

I am a regular satey player, with the intention on qualifying for tournaments which would normally be above my range, according to my BR.

However, my question involves variance in these satey's. I find that at one given time, on Pokerstars, playing a series of satey's I come accross the same players again and again. (Much of who atre polite). However, while playing these players, it is as if, their ranges vary so much, is it because, they hit a variance button? Or would you, or they, just change the way you play, to increase your winning potential, or is it because you play the same players so much, that you feel the need to change, to keep your opponents guessing?

Hopefully you get my drift, but as is known on here, I tend to use 1000 words when one will do?

Cheers for the help. :top:

Marc

Fascinating question! If I understand it correctly, you are asking if we should vary our ranges when we are playing against the same opponents over and over.

I used to think we shouldn't: that we should always just take the most profitable line in a vacuum. I changed my thinking when I started playing the same regs over and over every night in online satellites. Because I was a reg they could recognize spots where I had to fold 100% if they shoved, so they were shoving 100%. So I started throwing in some loose calls which were incorrect but close so they didn't cost me much in a vacuum. Once I started doing this, other regs suddenly realized they could no longer shove 100% as I'd sometimes make a loose call that was catastrophic for them, so the equity I lost making slightly losing calls was more than made up for in future equity. So yeah, we need to play differently against people we play over and over.

We talk about this a lot more in a section of our "Poker Satellite Strategy" book called "Adjusting for Imperfection".

Thank you for your question, hope this answered it.

 

[Dara OKearney]

Thanks! I've had some success with megasats but never been able to quantify what I did right when I won and what I did wrong when I didn't. Some of them are in my mind the most lucrative tourneys I'll ever be able to afford. I have noticed the feeling that you describe at the end of your comments above. It may be a little easier for me to make those big folds (when I take the time to think about it) because I have such a terrible track record when holding AA & KK.

I'ver started reading your book but as recommended branched off to learn a bit more about ICM before going further. Thanks to Debi for hosting you here. Had you not come to Cardschat I probably would not have come across your very interesting book.

Thank you for buying the book, and your kind comments! I'm hoping the book helps you with your satellite game

 

[Ryan Laplante]

Hi Cardschat,

I am Dara O’Kearney, known as Doke online. I am an Irish poker professional tournament player, with over $1 million in live earnings and more than $3 million in online MTTs, not to mention 8 PocketFives Triple Crowns.

I am perhaps best known for being a satellite specialist. I have won over $1 million in online satellites alone and have just written a new book on this subject called Poker Satellite Strategy:

Away from the tables I am the co-host of the Global Poker Award winning Chip Race Podcast and sponsored by Unibet Poker. Prior to poker I was an ultra marathon runner

Cardschat have kindly agreed to let me do an Ask Me Anything thread where you can ask me anything at all about satellites and tournament strategy. This will be on an ongoing basis, I’ll be checking in most weeks starting this one to answer your questions and to begin with I will be around tomorrow to answer the first batch.

Also this month I will give a free copy of my book on Apple iBooks to my favourite question, once a week for the next four weeks.

AMA


Dara

Welcome!