All UFC Thread

[underdog140]

That piece you quoted was from when George was an active fighter though. What is his current position with Under-Armour?? That's all that's really relevant here, not his situation 7 years ago.

And if that's his biggest sponsor then his argument for keeping them doesn't hold much water, considering a return to the UFC would be worth 5 million plus without ANY outside endorsements.

You assume incorrectly re: contracts.

Most fighters contracts made very little mention of sponsors in the pre Reebok days. Have not seen anything to suggest that GSP's was any different. It was deliberately done that way to allow for something like the Reebok deal, giving fighters no legal recourse. This was all widely discussed during the transition to Reebok.

The article came out late 2013. GSP last fight was early 2013. I am not sure on what date he officially retired but the article may have been released afterwards. This info is at least based on 3 years ago not 7.

As noted in the article he has a muti-year deal with his sponsors. Looks like UA are honoring the contract since he is still affiliated with them. A quick search will show that UA is one of the main sticking points for his return.

His contract is $1 million plus A Year with them .. GNTD... who knows what that plus is. On the surface dropping a $1 million + sponsor might look like the right move for a $5 million plus payday but if you look at it closer it may not be. Short term gain vs. long term profit. UA is the main sticking point but there are likely other sponsors he stands to lose because of the Reebok deal that add to that lost money.

There are reports awhile back stating GSP made $12-$15 million in sponsors a year. Not sure I believe that but that is a ton of money if true. Money I doubt he even gets close to in sponsors with the Reebok deal in place.

https://twitter.com/arielhelwani/status/273058237400637440

Contracts:

I never followed the Reebok deal too closely but there has to have been something in the contracts about sponsors if the fighters had to re-sign deals because of it. GSP doesn't have much of an argument for being a free agent if there isn't.

 

[Rincewind]

The article came out late 2013. GSP last fight was early 2013. I am not sure on what date he officially retired but the article may have been released afterwards. This info is at least based on 3 years ago not 7.

Clearly makes reference to 2009 signing.

His contract is $1 million plus A Year with them .. GNTD... who knows what that plus is. On the surface dropping a $1 million + sponsor might look like the right move for a $5 million plus payday but if you look at it closer it may not be. Short term gain vs. long term profit. UA is the main sticking point but there are likely other sponsors he stands to lose because of the Reebok deal that add to that lost money.

Wait, where do you get the information that he will have to DROP/LOSE Under Armour or anyone else as a sponsor?? This is blatantly untrue.

In very broad terms the Reebok deal merely stipulates that a fighter can not promote another company while officially engaged by the UFC. The specifics of this relate primarily to fight week and the fight itself with one or two exceptions. There is nothing to stop GSP or any athlete from carrying on a relationship with any other sponsor. UFC fighters are essentially contractors contracted by the UFC so what they do outside of company time is their own business entirely.

There are reports awhile back stating GSP made $12-$15 million in sponsors a year. Not sure I believe that but that is a ton of money if true. Money I doubt he even gets close to in sponsors with the Reebok deal in place.

Again, the Reebok deal does not stop him from having sponsors or earning sponsorship money. For someone with the exposure that GSP has, I would be very surprised if Reebok affected his other interests at all. If for example, in the very unlikely circumstance, Under Armour were to cut him loose, there would be a string of others (Reebok included) queueing up for his signature.

The Reebok deal really only had adverse affects for fighters that are less well known. For tier 1 fighters (in terms of sponsorship) like Rousey, Jones, McGregor, the Reebok deal hasn't affected their earning ability at all. GSP easily falls into this category if he returns.

All this huffing and puffing about sponsors and free agency by GSP is all just smoke on the water from him to secure a better deal for his return to competition. His sponsors (what liitle they are worth to him anyway after being out for so long) are safe and he knows it.

Contracts:

I never followed the Reebok deal too closely but there has to have been something in the contracts about sponsors if the fighters had to re-sign deals because of it. GSP doesn't have much of an argument for being a free agent if there isn't.

The fighters had to re-sign to avoid conflicts of interests in the future, Prior to that there was very little in standard contracts referring to sponsors. Haven't seen anything to suggest that GSP's contract was any different. Pre-Reebok, the UFC was pretty much happy to allow fighters have almost any sponsorship they could get for themselves as long as those sponsors didn't adversely affect the reputation of the promotion.

 

[underdog140]

Clearly makes reference to 2009 signing.

It mentions 2009 as the date UA signed GSP. It doesn't state the info they provide is based on 2009 stats. The article is from late 2013 so as of late 2013 GSP was still getting $1 million plus from AU and locked in a multi year deal with them.

Wait, where do you get the information that he will have to DROP/LOSE Under Armour or anyone else as a sponsor?? This is blatantly untrue.

In very broad terms the Reebok deal merely stipulates that a fighter can not promote another company while officially engaged by the UFC. The specifics of this relate primarily to fight week and the fight itself with one or two exceptions. There is nothing to stop GSP or any athlete from carrying on a relationship with any other sponsor. UFC fighters are essentially contractors contracted by the UFC so what they do outside of company time is their own business entirely.

Obviously his UA deal is going to be affected. If it wasn't going to be then there would be no issue. But there is an issue. If he will be dropped / leave on his own or they reworked the deal I don't know. But clearly there is something negative that will come from it.

Do you think UA will be ok to have a sponsor they pay $1 Million + a year to wear Reebok gear in front of a Million plus live viewers ( + replay value ) ?

Again, the Reebok deal does not stop him from having sponsors or earning sponsorship money. For someone with the exposure that GSP has, I would be very surprised if Reebok affected his other interests at all. If for example, in the very unlikely circumstance, Under Armour were to cut him loose, there would be a string of others (Reebok included) queueing up for his signature.

I never said it did but it will stop him from getting the most he can from sponsors. Sponsors want their logos seen. The most eyes are on GSP when he fights.

BTW Lots of fighters have spoke against the Reebok deal and how much money they are losing.

The Reebok deal really only had adverse affects for fighters that are less well known. For tier 1 fighters (in terms of sponsorship) like Rousey, Jones, McGregor, the Reebok deal hasn't affected their earning ability at all. GSP easily falls into this category if he returns.

You are completely wrong.

Another article from Forbes.

Belfort claims the Reebok sponsorship is akin to living in slavery, and cost him “millions” because the deal granted Reebok dominance over fight week sponsorships, in an effort to structure athletes’ income outside of fights.

Here is one with multiple fighters opinions.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/5/6...-deal-reactions-twitter-tenure-tiers-mma-news

I can find tons more but I will just leave it at that.

All this huffing and puffing about sponsors and free agency by GSP is all just smoke on the water from him to secure a better deal for his return to competition. His sponsors (what liitle they are worth to him anyway after being out for so long) are safe and he knows it.

No doubt he is trying to use it to get a better deal. I am not saying other wise. But to say his sponsor money or sponsors isn't affected by the Reebok deal is completely false.

The fighters had to re-sign to avoid conflicts of interests in the future, Prior to that there was very little in standard contracts referring to sponsors. Haven't seen anything to suggest that GSP's contract was any different. Pre-Reebok, the UFC was pretty much happy to allow fighters have almost any sponsorship they could get for themselves as long as those sponsors didn't adversely affect the reputation of the promotion.

Of course it was to avoid future problems. They needed the fighters to sign deals saying they will fall in line with the Reebok deal. Obviously that wouldn't be in any older contract like GSP has. UFC needed the fighters to re-sign because UFC could no longer live up to the conditions of the old contracts due to the deal they made with Reebok.

GSP happens to have one of those old contracts. He is able to fulfill his conditions in it but UFC can not.

 

[ridicul0us riv3r]

i use to love the ufc of old. it has def taken a turn for the worst in the last couple of years. i loved bj penn, coutiere, lidell and even victor ortiz; i wish we could go back to that era of mma!

 

[Rincewind]

Obviously his UA deal is going to be affected. If it wasn't going to be then there would be no issue. But there is an issue. If he will be dropped / leave on his own or they reworked the deal I don't know. But clearly there is something negative that will come from it.

Do you think UA will be ok to have a sponsor they pay $1 Million + a year to wear Reebok gear in front of a Million plus live viewers ( + replay value ) ?

Wait do you seriously think/believe for 1 second that Under Armour have been and are still paying him 1m+ a year now that he is inactive for 3 years, with no reason to believe until now that he will ever return?? Not a hope.

I never said it did but it will stop him from getting the most he can from sponsors. Sponsors want their logos seen. The most eyes are on GSP when he fights.

BTW Lots of fighters have spoke against the Reebok deal and how much money they are losing.

How much money do you think he can possibly earn from sponsorship that would make it reasonable for him to turn down the kind of money he will get from the UFC for a comeback??

You will get it eventually!! He is just trying to force their hand. He's bluffing!!

You are completely wrong.

No. I'm right. I clearly said:

For tier 1 fighters (in terms of sponsorship) like Rousey, Jones, McGregor, the Reebok deal hasn't affected their earning ability at all. GSP easily falls into this category if he returns.

GSP, McGregor, Rousey, Jones and to a lesser extent Silva, JDS, Bisping are on a different level to 99% of the UFC roster in terms of marketability

And you try to compare GSP to Vitor?? They are not even in the same league, in terms of endorsements.

Another article from Forbes.



Here is one with multiple fighters opinions.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/5/6...-deal-reactions-twitter-tenure-tiers-mma-news

I can find tons more but I will just leave it at that.

Again more middle of the road fighters. Are you seriously comparing these people to GSP? I already acknowledged that this class of fighter suffered greatly from the Reebok deal where as high profile fighters have not suffered on a comparative level at all.

And for fighters starting out in the UFC, the Reebok deal gives them a lot more money than they would be getting from sponsors normally.

Point being, dont compare TIER 1 fighters to people like Schaub and Mitrione.

Of course it was to avoid future problems. They needed the fighters to sign deals saying they will fall in line with the Reebok deal. Obviously that wouldn't be in any older contract like GSP has. UFC needed the fighters to re-sign because UFC could no longer live up to the conditions of the old contracts due to the deal they made with Reebok.

GSP happens to have one of those old contracts. He is able to fulfill his conditions in it but UFC can not.

What conditions are these exactly? Because you seem to know more about it than anyone else. Does GSP actually have a clause in his contract that protects his right to use any sponsors he wants to, whenever he wants? If he does then he is the only one I have ever heard of.

I personally believe that the UFC kept this aspect of fighters contracts deliberately vague to ensure they could do something like this (Reebok deal) if they wanted to.

 

[OzExorcist]

Wow this is a strangely in-depth argument on something that we don't have a lot of concrete info on...

A few brief thoughts:

- If there's a conflict between the contracts, it's likely with GSP's Under Armour contract. It'll almost certainly have a clause in it saying he's not allowed to appear at public events wearing another brand of sportswear. So while the UFC wouldn't force him to drop his Under Armour contract, they would force him to wear Reebok gear. And once he was forced to wear Reebok, Under Armour would very likely be forced to drop GSP.

- I suspect if Reebok were willing to give GSP a contract equal in value to his Under Armour one then this problem would go away. That, as an aside, is the main reason Rincewind is right in saying other stars like Rousey and McGregor haven't been affected by the Reebok deal: it's because their endorsements were already with Reebok. GSP right now is in a very different place, because his major sponsorship is with a direct competitor to Reebok.

Also (and I don't want to go down this rabbit hole again, but it bears repeating) Rousey and McGregor have much, much greater appeal to mainstream audiences across the globe than GSP does. They've got lots more options for non-sportswear sponsorship than GSP. He needs a sportswear sponsorship like Under Armour because it'd be harder for him to replace it with another one of similar value than it would be for Rousey or McGregor.

- Underdog is right about the fighters losing money on their sponsorships under the Reebok deal. There have been countless examples of fighters confirming this since the deal came into effect. Pretty much the only ones that haven't lost money on it are the ones that either already had, or got, their own private deals with Reebok.

 

[underdog140]

Wait do you seriously think/believe for 1 second that Under Armour have been and are still paying him 1m+ a year now that he is inactive for 3 years, with no reason to believe until now that he will ever return?? Not a hope.

They very well may have been. It is not a question either one of us can answer. I can only go by what is published in the media. And what we know from that is GSP is inked to a multi year deal with UA worth at least $1 million a year.

How much money do you think he can possibly earn from sponsorship that would make it reasonable for him to turn down the kind of money he will get from the UFC for a comeback??

You will get it eventually!! He is just trying to force their hand. He's bluffing!!

I already posted you something that said he made $12 million a year from sponsors. I don't pretend to know what he gets. But you are being Naive if you think he will make the same with the current Reebok deal as he did when he had more options for sponsors.

And again, I never said he wasn't trying to use it as leverage for a better deal. You need to move on from points we agree on. Of course he wants a better deal. He needs to be compensated for the loss of sponsor money the Reebok deal is going to cause him to lose.

No. I'm right. I clearly said:



GSP, McGregor, Rousey, Jones and to a lesser extent Silva, JDS, Bisping are on a different level to 99% of the UFC roster in terms of marketability

And you try to compare GSP to Vitor?? They are not even in the same league, in terms of endorsements.

You also said, fighters that are far less well known.... Victor is well known. Not as popular at the someone like GSP or Conor but still he is well known.

I wasn't comparing anyone to anyone. GSP said himself UA is a sticking point at negotiations. Obviously he will be out money, why else would he push so hard for the UFC to allow him to use them on fight night as a sponsor. How you can't connect those dots is beyond me.

You laugh at me for mentioning Victor and you add Bisping to your list lol. When we were talking about top level I didn't think we were only including the very top draws. Which obviously GSP is and can't reach a deal ... Jones manager also spoke out against the Reebok deal.

Jones Manager:
"There can't be a fighter that's had any type of real representation that's happy with this deal,"

Here are some anonymous fighters on the Reebok deal:

http://themmacommunity.com/threads/survey-on-reebok-deal-what-fighters-really-think.3809/

UFC Top Contender: I made around $80,000 per fight before the Reebok announcement. That dropped to $35,000 for the last fight after the deal was announced.
Will lose $50,000-$57,500 per fight.

UFC Former Title Contender: I make $50,000-$60,000 per fight.
Will lose $65,000-$70,000 per fight.

Allot more similar articles / quotes can be found.

Again more middle of the road fighters. Are you seriously comparing these people to GSP? I already acknowledged that this class of fighter suffered greatly from the Reebok deal where as high profile fighters have not suffered on a comparative level at all.

And for fighters starting out in the UFC, the Reebok deal gives them a lot more money than they would be getting from sponsors normally.

Point being, dont compare TIER 1 fighters to people like Schaub and Mitrione.

Again I am not comparing anyone. Just giving evidence of my claims that the Rebook deal takes money out of fighters pockets. GSP included. Why is it so hard for you to grasp that.

Yeah new fighters make so much more .... $2500 a fight.

What conditions are these exactly? Because you seem to know more about it than anyone else. Does GSP actually have a clause in his contract that protects his right to use any sponsors he wants to, whenever he wants? If he does then he is the only one I have ever heard of.

I personally believe that the UFC kept this aspect of fighters contracts deliberately vague to ensure they could do something like this (Reebok deal) if they wanted to.

If they kept the contracts vague they would have lost one of the contract disputes they had in the past. If they kept the contracts vague they wouldn't need to get the fighters who already had contracts to sign new ones once a deal was made with Reebok. You don't win legal wars with vague contracts.

 

[OzExorcist]

They very well may have been. It is not a question either one of us can answer. I can only go by what is published in the media. And what we know from that is GSP is inked to a multi year deal with UA worth at least $1 million a year.

^ this.

We can't know what his contract is or isn't worth, and if they pay him more or less based on whether he's actively fighting or not, because we haven't seen the actual contract.

One thing I will point out though is they sponsor people from sports with much lower profiles than MMA (the "professional bow hunter" jumps right out, for example), and other people who have never been professional athletes to begin with (Gisele Bunchden).

I don't know what Under Armour's strategy is for using GSP. I don't live in that market so I don't see any of the advertising or anything else. Is it a common sense assumption that he's worth more to them when he's fighting than when he isn't? Yep, sure. But he's potentially still very valuable to them when he's not active. Whether that's $1m a year valuable or not though we just can't know.

 

[underdog140]

- I suspect if Reebok were willing to give GSP a contract equal in value to his Under Armour one then this problem would go away.

And we have a winner. I suspect that is all it would take as well. There were reports that GSP and the former owners came to agreement before the sale but the new owners didn't like the deal.

That, as an aside, is the main reason Rincewind is right in saying other stars like Rousey and McGregor haven't been affected by the Reebok deal: it's because their endorsements were already with Reebok. GSP right now is in a very different place, because his major sponsorship is with a direct competitor to Reebok.

- Underdog is right about the fighters losing money on their sponsorships under the Reebok deal. There have been countless examples of fighters confirming this since the deal came into effect. Pretty much the only ones that haven't lost money on it are the ones that either already had, or got, their own private deals with Reebok.

And there lies the problem and a point I was going to bring up as well. Most fighters that aren't complaining about the deal are ones already signed by Reebok or have been signed. Maby it is just me but it seems a little unfair to point to a group of fighters and say .. he these guys are happy with the deal... when that group is sponsored by Reebok.

 

[underdog140]

Rumor -- Nick Diaz offered UFC 206 title fight with Michael Bisping -- Rumor

Nick Diaz has been offered the fight with Bisping. According to the report, the only hold-up for the bout is that Diaz has yet to pay his $70,000 fine from the NSAC following his failed drug test for marijuana back in January of 2015.

..... how can they justify this match ? This is a level of foolishness on par with Conor keeping the 145lb belt after having three fights out of the division.

 

[Carl Trooper]

Rousey is SCARED to fight Cyborg... always has been. Rousey said she would fight her, then ducked her the second Cyborg offered a catch weight fight.

The problem with Rousey for me is the agenda push from UFC and other media making her "the most dominant athlete ever" which is just the most tilting thing ever. The girl fought soccer moms, in an under developed sport where she was cherry picked opponents. Now that womens MMA is getting better, she will be irrelevant.

I hope she gets her face smashed and goes back under her rock. I mean look at any other real champion. They lose, they train.. they come back.

Rousey? Loses... dodges the interview after the fight... covers her face with a pillow in airports... and eats ice cream and gains 50 pounds. Pathetic.


Ok that aside... SUPER pumped for my man Stephen Thompson.... hope he kicks the crap out of Tyron. There isn't a more deserving MMA champ than him IMO.

Also like above with Rousey... McGreggor. While is certainly is more skilled than Ronda.... the dude also gets some sweet / cherry picked fights.

Beats aldo with 1 punch... ok great. Where the hell is the rematch? Fighting Diaz was just a side thing and an execuse if he lost that he was "up weight" when in reality the dude should be fighting 155 minimum.
Pretty sure he gets wrestled F'd next fight.

 

[OzExorcist]

OK you're massively, massively underestimating both Rousey and McGregor there.

As for whether Rousey is scared to fight Cyborg or not... meh? Who cares? There are, bluntly, zero good reasons for Rousey to fight Cyborg now.

Rousey v Cyborg was a thing a few years back because of a number of conditions that no longer exist. People back then thought that Rousey needed to fight someone like Cyborg in order to get a really big payday. They also thought there were absolutely no compelling fights for her to take at 135. And they though Cyborg was a chance of making 135 if she absolutely had to.

Compare that to what we know now:

- Rousey is likely to sell a million PPVs regardless of who she fights. She got close to that fighting Bethe Correia on one of the worst cards ever, for crying out loud. Her opponent is, largely, irrelevant to her earnings

- There are a whole heap of compelling fights for her at 135 now. Start with the title fight against Nunes. Win or lose in that one, there's a rematch with Holly Holm to be had. Maybe a third fight with Miesha Tate. Then there's also new names like Julianna Pena and Valentina Shevchenko in the top 5 of the division.

- Cyborg will clearly never make 135, and even making 140 almost kills her. They could both make 140 if they had to, but it's not like it'd magically become a fair size matchup just because they did that. 135 is the right place for Rousey. 145 (or higher, if such a division existed) is the right place for Cyborg. And to be fair, when you say Rousey "ducked her the second Cyborg offered a catch weight fight": at that time Cyborg didn't have a UFC contract, and hadn't proved that she could even make 140. It's not like there was a bout agreement waiting to be signed, it was all just talk with nothing real to back it up, no proof it was even possible.

Long story short there's simply no good reason for Rousey to fight Cyborg. And I don't think it'd even be a particularly interesting fight if it did happen (Cyborg wins by face rearrangement LDO). You can call it "fear" or "dodging" I guess, but at the end of the day it's just smart for her not to take that fight. There's literally no upside for her.

Cyborg's view is, of course, completely different. She wants a big payday, and Rousey is the only one she has any hope of getting in this lifetime. A Rousey fight would be all upside for her (even if she somehow lost, which seems unlikely). So I can't fault her for keeping pushing for it, but I don't like her chances of making it happen.

Back to Invicta to destroy Alexis Dufrense I guess...

 

[SMD Jabroni]

gawd i love
Mackenzie Dern

 

[underdog140]

You over estimate Ronda. Her return fight will do big numbers. If she loses you will see a drastic drop in her PPV buys or possibly the end of her career. Ronda was never the top draw in the UFC. She was the top WMMA draw.

UFC 157 Rousey vs Carmouche did 450,000 PPV Sales - The two events directly after beat it. One over doubled it.
UFC 158 ( 950,000 ) And UFC 159 ( 530,000 )

UFC 170 Rousey vs McMann did 350,000 PPV Sales - This is just the average PPV buys.

UFC 184 Rousey vs Zingano did 600,000 PPV Sales - A good turn out but the two events prior outsold it.
UFC 183 ( 650,000 ) UFC 182 ( 800,000 )

UFC 190 Rousey vs Correia 900,000 - The only event that doesn't have other PPV directly before or after that outsold it.

UFC 193 Rousey vs Holm 1,100,000 - Again great numbers but the event directly afterwards ( UFC 194 ) did 1,200,000 in PPVS. Three events later ( UFC 196 ) did 1,600,000 PPV Sales.

Dana says she is .. the media reports it and people buy into it but it simply isn't true. She has never been the top draw.

And as mentioned before there is plenty of reason for her to fight Cyborg. The main one is being the first ever woman to be a two division champion. There are plenty of reasons for her to not to as well but I believe a loss to Cyborg at 145lbs isn't as bad as another loss at 135lbs is going to be. The UFC and her fans can spin it as the smaller person moving up for a challenge.

Of course there are allot of interesting fights for her at 135lbs atm so she doesn't "need" the fight but it is certainly one she should take before ending her career.

They have allot of history together. Each one calling the other out insulting each other ect. Lets not forget were Ronda started her career. It was in the 145lb division. Ronda also publicly stated she would fight Gina at 145lbs in the UFC if Gina wanted the fight.

 

[underdog140]

Rumor -- Nick Diaz offered UFC 206 title fight with Michael Bisping -- Rumor



..... how can they justify this match ? This is a level of foolishness on par with Conor keeping the 145lb belt after having three fights out of the division.

To follow up the above:

Diaz wants 20 Million ( Yes, you read that right ) to fight Bisping.

“Unless [the UFC is] coming with $20 Million guaranteed up front, I can promise you that Nick Diaz is not thinking about a short notice fight with an unproven middleweight [Bisping]. KO’d by Silva and ass-whooped by Hendo. Get Real. Because everyone knows Luke [Rockhold] was beating his ass until a lucky one landed too. Pay up or shut up!”

http://entimports.com/2016/10/diaz-...lion-to-fight-bisping-silvahendo-beat-his-ss/


What is this guy ( His Team ) thinking. Someone better talk some sense into him. His last win was vs B.J. Penn. He should jump at the chance to fight Bisping for the title for a fraction of the price he is asking.

 

[we will rock you]

got ufc tickets at msg at cost from a friend also got weigh in tickets cant wait til the event

 

[VizziVizo]

Connor won again, haha, it was awesome!!!

 

[VizziVizo]

But Diaz was really strong too, respect to this man

 

[OzExorcist]

You over estimate Ronda. Her return fight will do big numbers. If she loses you will see a drastic drop in her PPV buys or possibly the end of her career. Ronda was never the top draw in the UFC. She was the top WMMA draw.

Considering she pretty much single-handed built the market for WMMA that's not too shabby of an achievement. And even if she's not the biggest draw in MMA she's easily one of the top two currently active with the UFC. Nobody aside from her and Conor have a snowball in hell's chance of doing a million PPVs without some other crazy extenuating circumstances.

Anyway, we're clearly not going to agree on the Rousey fighting Cyborg issue. Though I continue to be confused when you talk about Rousey potentially becoming a two-division champion as a reason for doing it since there is no 145 pound championship belt in the UFC. I mean are you expecting Cyborg to put the Invicta belt on the line in a UFC fight? Or expecting the UFC to create a 145 belt just for Cyborg?

If they create a belt they're kind of obliged to populate a division to go with it. And as we've discussed, there's not going to be a women's 145 pound division in the UFC any time soon, because there literally aren't enough UFC-calibre 145 pound female fighters to populate it. It's even more of a talent wasteland than men's heavyweight.

Plus we're in the WME-IMG era now where the UFC is actively looking to run less events, not more. They can barely get fights from the good women's division (115, obv) onto cards. Can you imagine how few featherweight fights would get made?

 

[underdog140]

I wouldn't say she built WMMA. Ronda was a big part of it yes but I think Gina deserves allot of credit also. I think Gina would be allot more popular than Ronda is if WMMA was brought into the UFC when she was champion.

I'm not downplaying her past / current achievements. I was pointing out there is plenty of reason for her to accept a fight with Cyborg. I was also pointing out she was NEVER the TOP draw. She is among the top. But never the TOP. She has done exactly one event that reached 1 million PPV buys. What makes you think she can deliver them so easily ? Her past PPV's say other wise. Outside of her return fight ( if she loses ) back to 600 000 PPV buys for her, unless it is a stacked card.

People only believe she is the top draw because Dana and Media keep repeating it and it is drilled into the heads of the masses. But numbers don't lie and they tell a different story.


We already discussed how she could become a two division champion. If Ronda went public and said she is willing to fight Cyborg at 145lbs for a UFC belt than that is what will happen. Dana loves Ronda and will give her what she wants.

I already pointed out my thoughts on the lack of 145lb fighters. You have a different opinion and that is fine.

At least we can agree on the WME-UFC. I wouldn't be surprised if they axed some divisions.

 

[OzExorcist]

It's hard to say with Carrano - one of her biggest problems was probably fighting at 145 as well, where 1: she was never going to get to be a dominant champion because of Cyborg and 2: as discussed, 145 isn't a UFC-viable division.

Anywho this could all be a moot point: Rousey is talking about retiring sooner rather than later, and is pushing the Nunes fight as one of her last: http://www.mmafighting.com/2016/11/...turn-this-is-definitely-one-of-my-last-fights

I guess if you're gonna do this then have one last fight then eh, you could fight Cyborg, but if I were Rousey and I was gonna fight one more time after this, I'd probably take the Holm rematch instead.

 

[underdog140]

I suspect the retirement talk goes away with a win. If she loses it will resurface.

If she really does plan on retiring .... winning the belt back and then beating the only woman to defeat her in her retirement match is a way to go.

Gina Carano

I don't see 145lbs as being a problem at all. If a division can be built around Ronda .... one can be built around Gina Carano. UFC would of just needed to protect her for a little while and not put her against Cyborg. I think both Gina and Cyborg would have been big stars if UFC decided years ago to add 145. But that is all just speculation

 

[OzExorcist]

This is all pie in the sky speculation obviously, but apparently I enjoy this kind of stuff

Yeah I suppose if they had started a 145 division instead of a 135 division then the Miesha Tates and Sarah Kaufmanns of the world who were active at that time probably would have fought undersized at 145 just to get a shot in the UFC, and they could have made it viable (though they'd probably have had contract issues, which I'll come back to in a minute).

As for whether they really could have built a division around Carano, I think it all depends on when they'd done it - and there are big challenges with all the options. Remember Carano lost to Cyborg all the way back in 2009, and the UFC didn't buy Strikeforce until 2011. Plus Carano was never actually a champion in any organisation, as far as I'm aware.

Who knows what her contract looked like at the time she walked away from Strikeforce, maybe it's possible the UFC could have signed her away if she wanted to fight again. And if they did, while leaving Cyborg in Strikeforce, then there's your ready made excuse for why they're not fighting each other. But it would've been pretty hard for them to credibly build a division around her after the Cyborg loss. It would've made the UFC look like they had the second-best women's division (because "our champ beat your champ"). Plus they would've had to compete with Strikeforce for talent to build the division.

Maybe they would have had a better chance if they signed her before the Cyborg loss. There's still contract difficulties though because before Strikeforce she was with EliteXC, and Strikeforce inherited her EliteXC contract when they bought it out. Same goes for a lot of other fighters in the weight class at that time. So while the UFC would be getting a theoretically big-name WMMA fighter, untainted by losses, she wasn't actually a champion anywhere, and they'd still have had to compete with Strikeforce to sign away the fighters needed to build the division.

Dunno about you, but that sounds like a whole lot of hard work to me for a project that might or might not have ever paid dividends.

Building the 135 division around Rousey, on the other hand, worked because a whole heap of other factors fell into place:

- She was a legit undefeated champion, with an Olympic medalist back story to boot... but I think these next two are actually far more important:
- They were able to import an entire ready-made division from Strikeforce, no need to build one from scratch or compete for talent
- They had pretty much zero competition at the time in the WMMA space (Invicta didn't start until 2012, Bellator didn't officially have women's divisions... and still doesn't, I just learned). But if they didn't start the division themselves, Bellator or another competitor almost certainly would have taken it from them

 

[Michel_11]

Rockhold injured, out of fight with Jacare at UFC Fight Night.

Disapointed. I was pretty eager for this second fight between them

 

[OzExorcist]

Rockhold injured, out of fight with Jacare at UFC Fight Night.

Disapointed. I was pretty eager for this second fight between them

I'm super, super glad I didn't spend money on tickets to that show. Pretty much the entire rest of the card is padded with underwhelming locals.