All UFC Thread

[Rincewind]

This can only be a joke or you are Bisping's relative

-27 fights in the UFC. 27!!!
-Most wins in the UFC.
-Most Significant strikes landed.
-TUF winner.
-Has beaten 2 former Strikeforce champions.
-Beat Anderson Silva.
-First UK UFC title winner.
-Middleweight champion of the world.

The list of records he has set goes on and on and on.

If that is not the making of a legend within the sport then I dont know what is. He is an absolute guaranteed future hall of famer.

 

[underdog140]

I don't think anyone ( many ? ) thought Robbie was just about gntd to lose the belt his first ( legit ) defense. Robbie is one of the hardest hitters in the Division if not the hardest. On the other had .... Bisping will be a decent sized underdog regardless of who his next opponent will be.

While Bisping being the champ is great for him and I would say he would be a perfect example of Hard work pays off / anything can happen in MMA. I think with everything else going on ( FW / LW Belt situation ) it makes the belts seem less significant. Since no-one actually believes he is the best in the division. And he didn't prove anyone wrong by having his first defense against a retired 46 year old fighter who is 3-7 in his last 10 fights.

I'm not hating on the guy. He had his reasons for wanting to fight Hendo. It was smart of him to do so. But he still has a big hill to climb if he wants fans to see him as the best in his division.

 

[Rincewind]

Hard to believe but Bispings face looks almost worse now!! LOL

https://www.instagram.com/p/BLVm_nYhrMD/

I can see at least 6 stitches under that left eye.

 

[FastOne]

Hard to believe but Bispings face looks almost worse now!! LOL

https://www.instagram.com/p/BLVm_nYhrMD/

I can see at least 6 stitches under that left eye.

Yeah, his face is a mess.

I had the fight tied after the 4th round. That 5th round, Henderson dominated at first, then Bisping, and to me it was all going to be determined in the last 1:30 minutes of the round. And even though I wanted Henderson to win, Bisping did the better job at the end, and deserved it more.

Henderson could and should have won the fight in the first round.

 

[KUN_AGUERO_KROOS]

*shrugs*

Royce Gracie's record is underwhelming if you look back over it but he gets to be a legend of the sport...

Royce is a ****ing scumbag, but you can't deny that UFC 1 changed martial arts. A skinny guy beating all those guys in one night was mind blowing and he deserves a lot of credit for where BJJ and MMA are now.

I don't know if I can say the same thing about Bisping. I respect him as a fighter, but his skills and accomplishments are not enough to put him on the hall of fame. To be honest, his most memorable moments were being a Hendo's punchbag.

 

[Rincewind]

To be honest, his most memorable moments were being a Hendo's punchbag.

LOL you are joking right? So beating Anderson Silva counts for nothing? Winning TUF? Winning the Middleweight championship of the world by knocking out Luke Rockhold? All these outstanding achievements in the sport and you think suffering a highlight reel knockout over 7 years ago is his most memorable moment?

Yes, quite the fan you must be.

I don't know if I can say the same thing about Bisping. I respect him as a fighter, but his skills and accomplishments are not enough to put him on the hall of fame.

This is laughably idiotic. He has achieved more in the sport than the majority of fighters that are already in the HOF.

Mark my words, he WILL be inducted into the Hall of Fame in due course and entirely on merit.

 

[underdog140]

He gets put in the HOF for sure. TUF winner and capturing the belt solidified that.

But lol_donkaments isn't completely wrong imo. There is a reason why Bisping wanted the Hendo rematch. That gif / picture of him being KO'd by Hendo is almost legendary in itself and is plastered everywhere. He wanted to try and erase some of that. Up until this point and perhaps onward ( time will tell ) that KO is something that will always be remembered on par with anything else he has done.

Edit:

Almost forgot to post what I came here for....

So Conor has been fined for the water bottle throwing .... 5 % of his disclosed purse was his punishment ( $ 150,000 )... His reaction ...

https://twitter.com/TheNotoriousMMA/status/785565434103947264

I get fined more than these bums get paid

 

[KUN_AGUERO_KROOS]

LOL you are joking right? So beating Anderson Silva counts for nothing? Winning TUF? Winning the Middleweight championship of the world by knocking out Luke Rockhold? All these outstanding achievements in the sport and you think suffering a highlight reel knockout over 7 years ago is his most memorable moment?

Alright. Let me see.

Did he KO the legendary Anderson Silva or did he find a 48-47 decision over a fighter way out of his prime coming from a injury that nearly ended his career and a suspension ?

Does winning a reality show/side championship count as accomplishment worth the HOF? There is a bunch of TUF winners nobody cares about.

Beating Rockhold was very impressive, but everybody that knows something about MMA knows that Luke destroys Bisping in 9 out of 10 fights. Good for him that he took advantage of Luke's disattention.

Yes, quite the fan you must be.

Lol. You made me spit my coffee.

That comment coming from an irish MMA bandwagoner/Conor nuthugger fanboy is like being called misogynist by Donald Trump himself.

Mark my words, he WILL be inducted into the Hall of Fame in due course and entirely on merit.

He probably will. not "entirely on merit" but because the UK lacks UFC legit idols. Being the best from the UK can be more than enough. If he were american or brazilian, he would've been a very forgettable fighter.

Look what a retiring fighter did to his face.

The only way Bisping maintains his belt is if he fights somebody like Vitor Belfort.

 

[Rincewind]

Alright. Let me see.

Did he KO the legendary Anderson Silva or did he find a 48-47 decision over a fighter way out of his prime coming from a injury that nearly ended his career and a suspension ?

Always an excuse from the Brazilians, especially now that their best fighters can't rely on drugs as easily anymore. When Silva and Bisping had to compete on a level playing field, Silva was found wanting. Bisping beat him fair and square.

Every fighter has career threatening injuries. You don't hear Bisping hitching about the fact that he has greatly compromised vision in one eye. He just gets on with it.

Does winning a reality show/side championship count as accomplishment worth the HOF? There is a bunch of TUF winners nobody cares about.

Not on its own obviously, but it will be a contributing factor when he is inducted.

Beating Rockhold was very impressive, but everybody that knows something about MMA knows that Luke destroys Bisping in 9 out of 10 fights. Good for him that he took advantage of Luke's disattention.

More excuses. He won the fight. Get over it.

He probably will. not "entirely on merit" but because the UK lacks UFC legit idols. Being the best from the UK can be more than enough. If he were american or brazilian, he would've been a very forgettable fighter.

Besides those listed above he had more fights and more wins in the UFC than anyone else in the history of the promotion. At one point and for a very long time he was also the highest paid fighter in the UFC. That doesn't sound like a forgettable fighter to me.

Look what a retiring fighter did to his face.

I understand that you are new to the sport but try to remember that damage inflicted is only a very small consideration when we score fights.

The only way Bisping maintains his belt is if he fights somebody like Vitor Belfort.

He will probably lose his next fight, no doubt about it. But that will not tarnish his legacy as far as true fans of the sport are concerned. He will be able to walk away from the sport with his head held high.

 

[Rincewind]

Ariel Helwani hinting on twitter that Rousey will be returning on Dec 30.

Straight into a title fight against Nunes.

 

[andyt5303]

Ariel Helwani hinting on twitter that Rousey will be returning on Dec 30.

Straight into a title fight against Nunes.

Guess you guys know it's official now for Dec 30 UFC 207.

I'd be interested to see how rousey handles the pressure mentally building up to this. After saying she 'considered suicide' after the loss to Holm she's clearly not the strongest mentally. Yes it was a devastating loss but that was way over the top. Sure she's probably over it now but there's lots of question marks over a fighter after such a long time out and even more for ronda if you ask me.

Also I saw Dana mention that if she does win the title back there's a strong likelihood of ronda vs cyborg in the future... I'm assuming that would be at 140 and obviously not for a belt but that's a fight I can get behind!

 

[OzExorcist]

The only way Bisping maintains his belt is if he fights somebody like Vitor Belfort.

For what it's worth, I probably agree that's the only way Bisping starts another title fight as the favourite. I don't think that's the only way he retains the belt though.

I mean he obviously wouldn't be drawing dead against Rockhold, he beat him once and he could do it again (or, more likely, it goes like their first fight - but we're talking about him being live, not favourite).

I also kind of like his chances as a live dog if he were to fight Romero - he'd obviously have to avoid the early KO but after that Romero gases quickly and Bisping could definitely win the later rounds after weathering an early storm.

Jacare is probably the worst fight for him IMO - I think Jacare would be more committed than anyone else to getting the fight to the ground, and he'd just own Bisping's soul once it happened.

Outside the top four there are other winnable fights for him too, I just don't see any of them getting made. Anyone can beat Uriah Hall on any given night, for example. I think a fight with Gegard Mousassi could actually be pretty close. Obviously I think he'd be a huge favourite against Belfort if they made that fight for whatever reason.

TLR - no he won't start as favourite in many title fights, but there are many where he'd at least be a live dog

 

[underdog140]

It's MMA just about everyone is a live dog outside complete miss-matches.

Ronda never fights Cyborg at catch weight so she likely never fights her at all since it is highly unlikely Cyborg can get to 135lbs and be healthy doing it.

I don't see why anyone isn't advising Ronda to go after the fight at 145lbs. All she would have to do is publicly say she will fight Cyborg for the 145lb title in the UFC if Dana/UFC will make the division and at the same time also state she is willing to fight Cyborg if she makes 135lbs ( which she won't ). She will have a chance to become among the few to hold titles in two divisions. It's a win / win situation for her other than the Ass Kicking she might get.

 

[WVHillbilly]

It's MMA just about everyone is a live dog outside complete miss-matches.

Ronda never fights Cyborg at catch weight so she likely never fights her at all since it is highly unlikely Cyborg can get to 135lbs and be healthy doing it.

I don't see why anyone isn't advising Ronda to go after the fight at 145lbs. All she would have to do is publicly say she will fight Cyborg for the 145lb title in the UFC if Dana/UFC will make the division and at the same time also state she is willing to fight Cyborg if she makes 135lbs ( which she won't ). She will have a chance to become among the few to hold titles in two divisions. It's a win / win situation for her other than the Ass Kicking she might get.

At 145 I'm afraid she may never recover from a Cyborg beating.

 

[OzExorcist]

I don't see why anyone isn't advising Ronda to go after the fight at 145lbs. All she would have to do is publicly say she will fight Cyborg for the 145lb title in the UFC if Dana/UFC will make the division and at the same time also state she is willing to fight Cyborg if she makes 135lbs ( which she won't ). She will have a chance to become among the few to hold titles in two divisions. It's a win / win situation for her other than the Ass Kicking she might get.

I honestly can't see any upside for Rousey in fighting Cyborg - at any weight.

The argument for it way back in the day was that Rousey was destroying all these lesser fighters, she'd cleaned out her division and nobody was going to be interested in her fights unless she fought Cyborg. Then Rousey sold about a million PPVs fighting Bethe Correia of all people, confirming that she can make bank regardless of who she's fighting.

...then she lost to Holly Holm, and Miesha Tate has held the belt in the interim as well. Pena has come up as a credible title challenger in the meantime, as has Valentina Shevchenko.

Put simply there's now probably half a dozen interesting matchups for Rousey at 135, all of which will sell big because she's involved, and all of which are much more winnable than a fight with Cyborg at 140 or 145.

The UFC adding a women's 145 division would be a joke BTW. I wouldn't be against them doing it just to put a belt on Cyborg and keep her busy I guess, but it'd be pretty transparent that would be the only reason for them doing it. It'd be a division that'd barely have 10 fights a year.

I mean just look at this power ranking of women's "featherweights": http://www.fightmatrix.com/mma-ranks/womens-featheweight/

First of all, they have to classify "featherweights" as fighters at 140 or above just to have enough warm bodies to make the list. So, for example, it includes Gabi Garcia, who weighed in at 245 for her most recent bout. The #2 fighter on the list is Alexis Dufresne, who washed out of the UFC in comprehensive fashion, looking like she had no business being in a cage with any legit professional: Cyborg will murder her. There are 2-0, 2-1 and 4-4 fighters on that list. Women's featherweight just isn't a competitive division.

So Rousey-Cyborg would be a fight that has huge upside for Cyborg - it'd be easily the biggest payday of Cyborg's career. But it's not a fight Rousey has any reason to take.

 

[FastOne]

It's MMA just about everyone is a live dog outside complete miss-matches.

Ronda never fights Cyborg at catch weight so she likely never fights her at all since it is highly unlikely Cyborg can get to 135lbs and be healthy doing it.

I don't see why anyone isn't advising Ronda to go after the fight at 145lbs. All she would have to do is publicly say she will fight Cyborg for the 145lb title in the UFC if Dana/UFC will make the division and at the same time also state she is willing to fight Cyborg if she makes 135lbs ( which she won't ). She will have a chance to become among the few to hold titles in two divisions. It's a win / win situation for her other than the Ass Kicking she might get.

She has to beat Amanda Nunes first, and honestly, I don't think she will.

 

[underdog140]

I honestly can't see any upside for Rousey in fighting Cyborg - at any weight.

The argument for it way back in the day was that Rousey was destroying all these lesser fighters, she'd cleaned out her division and nobody was going to be interested in her fights unless she fought Cyborg. Then Rousey sold about a million PPVs fighting Bethe Correia of all people, confirming that she can make bank regardless of who she's fighting.

...then she lost to Holly Holm, and Miesha Tate has held the belt in the interim as well. Pena has come up as a credible title challenger in the meantime, as has Valentina Shevchenko.

Put simply there's now probably half a dozen interesting matchups for Rousey at 135, all of which will sell big because she's involved, and all of which are much more winnable than a fight with Cyborg at 140 or 145.

The UFC adding a women's 145 division would be a joke BTW. I wouldn't be against them doing it just to put a belt on Cyborg and keep her busy I guess, but it'd be pretty transparent that would be the only reason for them doing it. It'd be a division that'd barely have 10 fights a year.

I mean just look at this power ranking of women's "featherweights": http://www.fightmatrix.com/mma-ranks/womens-featheweight/

First of all, they have to classify "featherweights" as fighters at 140 or above just to have enough warm bodies to make the list. So, for example, it includes Gabi Garcia, who weighed in at 245 for her most recent bout. The #2 fighter on the list is Alexis Dufresne, who washed out of the UFC in comprehensive fashion, looking like she had no business being in a cage with any legit professional: Cyborg will murder her. There are 2-0, 2-1 and 4-4 fighters on that list. Women's featherweight just isn't a competitive division.

So Rousey-Cyborg would be a fight that has huge upside for Cyborg - it'd be easily the biggest payday of Cyborg's career. But it's not a fight Rousey has any reason to take.

She will get to be the one of few to hold two belts and the very first woman to ever do it. It will add to her legacy greatly. It will put an end to the hardcore fans debating who is better. Casuals see Ronda as the best but not all the hardcore fans do and history will always look back at and question could she beat Cyborg. Ronda did fight at 145lbs before.

She has already lost at 135lbs. Her aura of invincibility is gone. The only thing she has to lose is another loss and that can be marketed as Ronda losing to the bigger fighter if it were to happen. Another loss at 135lbs does allot more damage to her then losing a title fight at 145lbs.

As for there being no fighters for the division. That is because there isn't a 145lb class in the UFC yet. Why would someone choose a path ( fighting at 145lbs ) were the pay is as low as $1000 in the top org Invicta. IF the UFC put the division in it will grow.

She has to beat Amanda Nunes first, and honestly, I don't think she will.

She could lose to Nunes and Dana would still create the 145lb division if Ronda wanted it.

 

[OzExorcist]

She will get to be the one of few to hold two belts and the very first woman to ever do it. It will add to her legacy greatly. It will put an end to the hardcore fans debating who is better. Casuals see Ronda as the best but not all the hardcore fans do and history will always look back at and question could she beat Cyborg. Ronda did fight at 145lbs before.

She has already lost at 135lbs. Her aura of invincibility is gone. The only thing she has to lose is another loss and that can be marketed as Ronda losing to the bigger fighter if it were to happen. Another loss at 135lbs does allot more damage to her then losing a title fight at 145lbs.

As for there being no fighters for the division. That is because there isn't a 145lb class in the UFC yet. Why would someone choose a path ( fighting at 145lbs ) were the pay is as low as $1000 in the top org Invicta. IF the UFC put the division in it will grow.

I think once again we're on completely different pages but legacy schmegacy - Rousey is in the making lots of money game, and a fight against Cyborg doesn't make her any more than a whole bunch of other fights she could take at her normal weight class. Plus if she is concerned about her legacy, then I think regaining the 135 title and defending it a few more times will be a hell of a lot more important than fighting Cyborg and (almost certainly) getting destroyed.

As for the 145 division growing if the UFC creates one... sure, maybe that could happen. It would take years though, and there's no guarantees. Again, Alexis Dufresne is apparently the #2 fighter at the weight class (Cyborg has been saying recently that she's one of the "legit fights" she could be taking back in Invicta). Alexis Dufresne is, objectively, awful. She got destroyed by a bunch of lower-tier UFC bantamweights.

Aside from that, I don't necessarily think it's the case that there's no competitive 145 division just because the UFC doesn't have one. There was plenty of depth at 115 before the UFC started that division, for example. And while the UFC may pay a little more than Invicta, it doesn't pay a lot more, especially for prospects. Certainly not leave your day job money (just ask a much bigger-named fighter like Joanne Calderwood).

 

[underdog140]

The UFC min pay rate is $20,000 ( for a win ). Two / three fights a year, with at least one of them being a win ,and your are making at least $40,000 - $60,000 a year from fighting. Then you get sponsor money + what ever else you can make from calling yourself a UFC fighter. Get a couple wins and your pay likely increases.

That is just the base pay. So a person would have to climb to the top of Invicta to make that. In one company it's the very least you would make ... in the other it's close to the very most you can make. This is why you don't see allot of talented fighters at 145lbs. There are more profitable areas to pursue in life then getting punched in the face for $1000.

Sure gaining her title back will add to her legacy. I am not saying it won't. What could be greater ..... Being the first woman to hold two belts certainly would. Just seems like an obvious thing for her to want to me. She talked loads of crap about Cyborg / says she wants to fight her. So talk to Dana and make it happen. All she would have to do is ask and Dana being all about Ronda ... will give her what she wants.

 

[OzExorcist]

The whole $20K doesn't go to the fighter though, even after tax: there's trainer's fees, management's cut, and the opportunities for sponsorships (especially for the minimum-wage type fighers) in the UFC are pretty minimal since the Reebok deal came along.

Again, until the UFC took pity on her and gave her some extra, Joanne Calderwood was going to have to go back to working a day job in Scotland so that she could afford to do another training camp and then another fight. She's relatively well known, experienced and is definitely a UFC-calibre talent. And she was on a bit more than the UFC minimum at that stage ($25k/$25k for her most recent fight, though her very first fight in the UFC was for the company minimum).

So yeah, there are going to be a few people more willing to get punched in the face for a guaranteed $10k than there are willing to do it for $1k or less, but they're not necessarily going to be attracting world-class athletes with that kind of money, and the amounts are small enough that they probably won't be training full time so their development will be slower too.

And again, there were other women's divisions that were in a much healthier state before the UFC came along. The UFC signed up a heap of talent at 115 when it started that division, and there's still been more than enough fighters left to carry that division in Invicta and elsewhere too. Women's 145 just doesn't have that.

I don't claim to know why that is*, but I do know it's a real problem right now, and even the UFC creating a 145 division would draw additional talent it would seriously take years for that to show results. People don't become UFC-calibre fighters overnight just because there's a little bit of money on offer.

* I suspect one reason is because at 145 you're getting into body sizes that make them more viable in other better paying sports like soccer or basketball, which don't involve being punched in the face.

 

[Bodomovac]

I think McGregor will get his ass wooped by Alvarez.

 

[FastOne]

She could lose to Nunes and Dana would still create the 145lb division if Ronda wanted it.

For sure, now more than ever.

 

[underdog140]

The whole $20K doesn't go to the fighter though, even after tax: there's trainer's fees, management's cut, and the opportunities for sponsorships (especially for the minimum-wage type fighers) in the UFC are pretty minimal since the Reebok deal came along.

Again, until the UFC took pity on her and gave her some extra, Joanne Calderwood was going to have to go back to working a day job in Scotland so that she could afford to do another training camp and then another fight. She's relatively well known, experienced and is definitely a UFC-calibre talent. And she was on a bit more than the UFC minimum at that stage ($25k/$25k for her most recent fight, though her very first fight in the UFC was for the company minimum).

So yeah, there are going to be a few people more willing to get punched in the face for a guaranteed $10k than there are willing to do it for $1k or less, but they're not necessarily going to be attracting world-class athletes with that kind of money, and the amounts are small enough that they probably won't be training full time so their development will be slower too.

And again, there were other women's divisions that were in a much healthier state before the UFC came along. The UFC signed up a heap of talent at 115 when it started that division, and there's still been more than enough fighters left to carry that division in Invicta and elsewhere too. Women's 145 just doesn't have that.

I don't claim to know why that is*, but I do know it's a real problem right now, and even the UFC creating a 145 division would draw additional talent it would seriously take years for that to show results. People don't become UFC-calibre fighters overnight just because there's a little bit of money on offer.

* I suspect one reason is because at 145 you're getting into body sizes that make them more viable in other better paying sports like soccer or basketball, which don't involve being punched in the face.

I suspect fighters using the excuse of paying for training camps are greatly exaggerating that claim. I think it is more likely some of these fighters are just poor at money management and/or just want more money ( a raise ) just like 99 % of the rest of the population wants at their job. Myself included.

As for taxes .. we all pay them. Regardless if we get punched in our face to make $50 K or push papers. The median individual income in canada is just $27,600 ( Currently worth > $21000 US ) A person making $50,000 ( Currently worth > $66000 CAD ) is doing just fine.

It is also likely what they pay out for training ect. is based on a percentage of their purse. And in some cases just based on show money alone. I am sure there are different variants of how these things are done. But I am also sure that no gym is charging anymore than a fighter can afford. They are not going to charge a fighter $10 000 to train at their gym if they only make $20 000.

In any case the sponsor money they get most likely covers most of the training cost. Rebook gives these new fighters $2500 each fight so that is an extra $7500 right there if they fight three times a year.

It is likely hard for new fighters to find sponsors but I have a hard time believing that they wouldn't at least find another $1000 outside of the gntd reebok money. Which gives them another $3000 extra a year.


One of the contributing factors to lack of 145lb fighters before and after UFC added WMMA could be Cyborg herself. Fighters aren't lining up to face her. That is her division. If Ronda still fought at 145lbs then that is the division UFC would have added and all the good fighters at 135lbs would be at 145lbs. Add the division and some of the 135lb fighters move up and new talent will come. It will take a couple years like you said but that isn't something new. It usually takes that for any division to develop. The men's 145lb and 155lb divisions were the same.

I think that is the most I have ever typed about fighter pay. I should add I do believe they deserve more and I don't worry about what they are making since I doubt they worry about what I am making.

 

[SMD Jabroni]

can't believe ronda is only -200 for this fight.

 

[Sil3ntness]

I can't believe Ronda is fighting in year 2016. I could of swore she wasn't going to return until 2017. (Well I mean Dec 30 is basically 2017 >,< )