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Sil3ntness

Sil3ntness

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N'yeah, except that the bit about the Conor needing the UFC more than they need Conor isn't actually true. Nobody cared what organisations Floyd Mayweather or Manny Pacquiao fought for or which organisation's titles they were putting on the line or whatever. They just tuned in to see those fighters. McGregor has the potential to do the same IMO.

Meanwhile he's one of just two legit million-plus selling draws the UFC has right now (Rousey being the other). More than that, McGregor can even can do those numbers without a title being on the line.

And you do realise what you're trying to say about the Fertittas is crazy, right?!? You're saying that just because they're already rich, they're happy to leave tens of millions of dollars lying on the table - they've got so much money they don't care about a few million more. LOL seriously?!? Rich people (especially ones in the casino business) don't get rich or stay rich by adopting that attitude. They maximise their investments and squeeze every last drop of value out of their assets. So believe me when I say they care about those numbers.

I seriously don't understand what people are trying to prove here. You can argue until you're blue in the face over whether McGregor has a ground game or who'd beat him in what way or whether he should be jumping weight classes, whatever. But it's nuts to argue with the stone cold fact that he's a money-making machine, easily the best the UFC has had on its roster since Brock Lesnar.



So he's made millions of dollars, and now they're gonna make him wait a few extra weeks to make a million more? Oh yeah, they done played him good. He's gonna be crying all the way to the bank :rolleyes:

True, but UFC 200 is more than just about the money. It's going to be a big event. I know Conor is all about money, but I know he's hating that he's not going to be on this epic UFC 200 card.
 
Mr Sandbag

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N'yeah, except that the bit about the Conor needing the UFC more than they need Conor isn't actually true.

Yes it is. If it wasn't, Conor could just go to Bellator and enjoy the same money/fame. That simply wouldn't happen. Other promotions don't have the huge fights or marketing power that the UFC has.

And sure the UFC would love to have him, but if Conor doesn't play ball they'll find someone else that will. It's a rapidly growing sport and Conor won't be the first or last superstar.
 
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The UFC couldn't care less about those numbers. Because like Gabriel Morency said the Fertitta brothers own 18 casinos. "Just because you are unhappy, Conor, that ain't gonna stop grandma playing the slot machines"

They can do whatever they want with the UFC. It doesn't matter if the fans and the media want that stupid rematch.


Conor needs the UFC more than the Ufc needs Conor.
You don't play poker against someone who owns casinos.

There is allot of truth to what you are saying. They own casinos and are billionaires.

Conor tried to gamble with Casino owners and lost.

N'yeah, except that the bit about the Conor needing the UFC more than they need Conor isn't actually true. Nobody cared what organisations Floyd Mayweather or Manny Pacquiao fought for or which organisation's titles they were putting on the line or whatever. They just tuned in to see those fighters. McGregor has the potential to do the same IMO.....

This isn't boxing. There is no-one in the UFC ( former or present ) that can go out and put on their own PPV and get the same numbers the UFC can get for them. There are tons of casual's that don't even call MMA by its name .. it's all UFC to them. I am not saying it can't be successfully done. I think it can but It would need more star power than just one fighter. And they might end up making less then fighting for UFC would pay them.

This isn't just about Conor. Sure the UFC owners might be out a few million from this one event but how much money do they gain by standing firm and sending a clear message to everyone. Do Media ( which garners interest and up PPV buys ) or you won't be fighting. They made it very clear they are in control. If they let Conor not do press then Ronda is next ... G.S.P. ( if he ever comes back ). They would never get any Diaz to show up to press related events again. This is a long term play that will pay them back what they lost ten fold in future events.
 
KUN_AGUERO_KROOS

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N'yeah, except that the bit about the Conor needing the UFC more than they need Conor isn't actually true. Nobody cared what organisations Floyd Mayweather or Manny Pacquiao fought for or which organisation's titles they were putting on the line or whatever. They just tuned in to see those fighters. McGregor has the potential to do the same IMO.

Meanwhile he's one of just two legit million-plus selling draws the UFC has right now (Rousey being the other). More than that, McGregor can even can do those numbers without a title being on the line.

And you do realise what you're trying to say about the Fertittas is crazy, right?!? You're saying that just because they're already rich, they're happy to leave tens of millions of dollars lying on the table - they've got so much money they don't care about a few million more. LOL seriously?!? Rich people (especially ones in the casino business) don't get rich or stay rich by adopting that attitude. They maximise their investments and squeeze every last drop of value out of their assets. So believe me when I say they care about those numbers.

I seriously don't understand what people are trying to prove here. You can argue until you're blue in the face over whether McGregor has a ground game or who'd beat him in what way or whether he should be jumping weight classes, whatever. But it's nuts to argue with the stone cold fact that he's a money-making machine, easily the best the UFC has had on its roster since Brock Lesnar.



So he's made millions of dollars, and now they're gonna make him wait a few extra weeks to make a million more? Oh yeah, they done played him good. He's gonna be crying all the way to the bank :rolleyes:

I don't know where to begin. Hmm. Comparing boxing organisations with the UFC is just stupid. There are so many and none of them is dominating the sport like the UFC is with MMA. So no one cares about boxing organisations because they don't have the influence that Ufc has in MMA. Some people think that ufc is the sport.

I didn't say the Fertittas don't want more money. They don't NEED it desperately like Conor does. They don't have to accept treats and ultimatums. It doesn't matter how many PPV packages Conor sells or how many dickriders worship him like a god. You don't want to shoot commercials? You are out. You don't play that game against powerful people who have nothing to lose.

The Ufc without Conor is still the biggest MMA organisation by far.

Is Conor going to have the same hype fighting for let's say Bellator when we all know the top competitors are in UFC? Don't think so.

On top of that, he's coming from a loss. So be a good monkey and keep dancing, Conor.
 
OzExorcist

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Yes it is. If it wasn't, Conor could just go to Bellator and enjoy the same money/fame. That simply wouldn't happen. Other promotions don't have the huge fights or marketing power that the UFC has.

And sure the UFC would love to have him, but if Conor doesn't play ball they'll find someone else that will. It's a rapidly growing sport and Conor won't be the first or last superstar.

OK a couple of things. First of all, there have been some pretty big fights that did big numbers outside of the UFC in recent times. Kimbo v Shamrock, Shamrock v Gracie, Fedor v Random Can. They weren't competitive. They weren't good - hell, they were f&*king terrible fights. But they were promoted and people watched in big numbers.

And I think you're making a couple of pretty big assumptions about the UFC's ability to replace someone like Conor. Seriously, they have exactly two stars of that size in the organisation right now. Conor is one, Rousey is the other. Rousey likely isn't going to hang around a lot longer.

If it was easy to build up stars of that calibre, don't you think the UFC would have done it already? I'm sure they've tried. But there's a couple of simple facts about it: it takes a hell of a lot of time and resources, and not everybody is cut out to be that big of a star. It took years for both McGregor and Rousey to get to this level, and the UFC doesn't exactly have any other ready-made stars with that kind of pull waiting in the wings to step in right this second.

This isn't boxing. There is no-one in the UFC ( former or present ) that can go out and put on their own PPV and get the same numbers the UFC can get for them. There are tons of casual's that don't even call MMA by its name .. it's all UFC to them. I am not saying it can't be successfully done. I think it can but It would need more star power than just one fighter. And they might end up making less then fighting for UFC would pay them.

This isn't just about Conor. Sure the UFC owners might be out a few million from this one event but how much money do they gain by standing firm and sending a clear message to everyone. Do Media ( which garners interest and up PPV buys ) or you won't be fighting. They made it very clear they are in control. If they let Conor not do press then Ronda is next ... G.S.P. ( if he ever comes back ). They would never get any Diaz to show up to press related events again. This is a long term play that will pay them back what they lost ten fold in future events.

I agree on your second point, 100%. For the UFC this is clearly not just about Conor, it's about keeping the rest of the roster in line. How well their approach works remains to be seen though, as there's been a hell of a lot of fighters taking Conor's side in this...

So yes turning down more Conor money now might be an investment in stopping other fighters doing the same in the future, but it seems a bit crazy to me. No other fighter except for Rousey has this kind of promotional power right now - if anyone else on the roster tried this, the UFC is already in a position to smack them back down. That wouldn't change if they let Conor get away with this and left him on the card (in real terms it wouldn't be billed as him "getting away with it" either - it'd be billed as them coming to a win-win agreement). And in the future if someone else does build up that kind of clout, that's what's known as a "good" problem, because it means you've got a bona fide star on your hands who's already made you millions and millions of dollars.

On the first point though, as I mentioned above it's been tried with some success pretty recently. If Bellator and Rizin can draw eyeballs with has-beens like Shamrock, Gracie, Kimbo and (I feel bad putting him in this category, but let's be real here) Fedor then imagine what they could do with someone young and relevant like a McGregor...

It's all too easy to forget too how organisations like Bellator were nipping at the UFC's heels just a few short years ago. The UFC's current period of dominance was built almost entirely on the back of McGregor and Rousey. But look back to say 2014, before those two stars fully came into their own, the UFC's numbers were down and Bellator was quickly gaining ground.

I don't know where to begin. Hmm. Comparing boxing organisations with the UFC is just stupid. There are so many and none of them is dominating the sport like the UFC is with MMA. So no one cares about boxing organisations because they don't have the influence that Ufc has in MMA. Some people think that ufc is the sport.

I didn't say the Fertittas don't want more money. They don't NEED it desperately like Conor does. They don't have to accept treats and ultimatums. It doesn't matter how many PPV packages Conor sells or how many dickriders worship him like a god. You don't want to shoot commercials? You are out. You don't play that game against powerful people who have nothing to lose.

*shrugs*

Sure the UFC is the dominant organisation in the sport right now. But if that were ever going to change, it'd take a fighter with a massive following, both with fans and the media, going out on his own. Conor has that capacity. And Conor clearly isn't "desperate for the money" either, otherwise he wouldn't have taken this risk to begin with.

Plus there's a flipside to your "powerful people with nothing to lose" argument because long term, they do have something to lose: fighters like McGregor, and the substantial investment they've made in him. The UFC would be stupid to let him hit free agency because you know Bellator would pay pretty much any price for him.

So maybe you don't play games with powerful people who have nothing to lose. But you also don't take stupid risks with your biggest asset when he could walk out the door and take his earning power to your competition, instantly legitimising them in the process.

Years like 2014 proved that even if most people think the UFC is the whole sport of MMA, those three letters alone only bring a small to medium number of viewers. The UFC needs its stars to achieve the kind of success it wants to achieve.
 
Mr Sandbag

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OK a couple of things. First of all, there have been some pretty big fights that did big numbers outside of the UFC in recent times. Kimbo v Shamrock, Shamrock v Gracie, Fedor v Random Can. They weren't competitive. They weren't good - hell, they were f&*king terrible fights. But they were promoted and people watched in big numbers.

And I think you're making a couple of pretty big assumptions about the UFC's ability to replace someone like Conor. Seriously, they have exactly two stars of that size in the organisation right now. Conor is one, Rousey is the other. Rousey likely isn't going to hang around a lot longer.

If it was easy to build up stars of that calibre, don't you think the UFC would have done it already? I'm sure they've tried. But there's a couple of simple facts about it: it takes a hell of a lot of time and resources, and not everybody is cut out to be that big of a star. It took years for both McGregor and Rousey to get to this level, and the UFC doesn't exactly have any other ready-made stars with that kind of pull waiting in the wings to step in right this second.

Bellator's biggest PPV sold 100k pay per views. They don't have big fights. If Conor went to Bellator, the PPV would need to be purchased over 1000% more than Bellator's best-selling PPV to match Conor's UFC PPV numbers. There just isn't close to enough talent on Bellator's roster to make that happen, and DEFINITELY not enough to make it happen consistently.

I also never said it was easy to replace Conor or produce stars. But the UFC isn't EliteXC where their one star lost and they folded instantly. UFC would obviously love to have him, but they don't depend on Conor for success. On the flip side, Conor won't even come close to the level he's at in the UFC anywhere else.

If the Conor-UFC relationship fails, both sides lose. But Conor loses MUCH more.
 
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I agree on your second point, 100%. For the UFC this is clearly not just about Conor, it's about keeping the rest of the roster in line. How well their approach works remains to be seen though, as there's been a hell of a lot of fighters taking Conor's side in this...

From what I been reading it looks like most fighters are taking UFC side. I Read articles of Conor being called a baby and the UFC needs to take away his binkie and blanket to fighters saying Conor fell for his own hype. I read far less articles that support Conor in this situation.

No other fighter except for Rousey has this kind of promotional power right now - if anyone else on the roster tried this, the UFC is already in a position to smack them back down. That wouldn't change if they let Conor get away with this and left him on the card (in real terms it wouldn't be billed as him "getting away with it" either - it'd be billed as them coming to a win-win agreement). And in the future if someone else does build up that kind of clout, that's what's known as a "good" problem, because it means you've got a bona fide star on your hands who's already made you millions and millions of dollars.

Not true .. it will be billed as a win for Conor. As things currently stand, UFC would 100% be viewed as giving in to Conor's demands if they allow him to fight without doing the media required of him.

Any Champion can and would make the same demands ( in regards to media ) if UFC let Conor get away with it.

Anyone holding a belt would also.

Somewhat popular fighters will do the same. Diaz brothers are a perfect example. 100% they would skip out on media at some point if UFC let Conor get away with it.

Fighters don't have to be as popular as Conor to make these media demands.

On the first point though, as I mentioned above it's been tried with some success pretty recently. If Bellator and Rizin can draw eyeballs with has-beens like Shamrock, Gracie, Kimbo and (I feel bad putting him in this category, but let's be real here) Fedor then imagine what they could do with someone young and relevant like a McGregor...

It's all too easy to forget too how organisations like Bellator were nipping at the UFC's heels just a few short years ago. The UFC's current period of dominance was built almost entirely on the back of McGregor and Rousey. But look back to say 2014, before those two stars fully came into their own, the UFC's numbers were down and Bellator was quickly gaining ground.

We can't compare PPV with Free TV. Bellator did one PPV event and it was reported they did 100K buys. I suspect that would increase with a person like Conor on the show but not by x 15 which is what I suspect UFC 200 would have got with him on the card.

There is a reason why Bellator hasn't done a second PPV yet. I wouldn't be surprised if the 100K that was reported was >100K.

Plus Bellator is a promotion. I was more referring to Conor doing his own promotion or a stand alone PPV.
 
martymart48

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Someone will Bet for Sunday ?

Good Bet or Underdog for Sunday ?

Thank :)

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OzExorcist

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Arlovski doesn't really feel bettable to me at current odds (I'm seeing $2.86 on Pinnacle). Overeem is just the far superior striker.

Both have substandard chins for the division so either could win, but I'm wondering whether the value could actually be in the "over 1.5 rounds" market at a touch over even money. Both are Jackson-Winkeljohn trained and Overeem in particular has fought at a much slower, more calculating pace since moving there. Overeem has gone over 1.5 in 5/10 most recent fights and it's 6/10 for Arlovski. Factor in that this is a five-rounder, while many of those fights in the sample were just three-rounders, and I think it's a pretty decent shot.

Now watch them go rock 'em sock 'em robots in the middle from the opening bell and prove me wrong :p
 
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I wouldn't bet on a AA and AO fight going over 1.5 rounds at even odds. Both these guys hit hard and both chins are suspect. I think AO will fight defensive protecting his chin waiting to land that shot that will eventually land and KO AA. I wouldn't be surprised if the KO happens during the first or 2nd round.

I never checked what the odds are for Overeem via KO but I suspect that is going to be the outcome unless AA can land a big shot while rushing in.

Might be some value in Stephen Struve vs Big Foot

Big foot is 2.8. Not sure the odds for via KO but It has to be at least +3. Six out of eight of Stephen Struve losses were via (T)KO.
 
OzExorcist

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Odds for either Overeem or Arlovski winning by KO are only marginally higher than the odds for them winning straight up - I'm seeing at least $9.00 for ANY other outcome for either fighter.

Much the same with Silva by KO - $2.70 straight up, $3.25 by KO ($1.45 straight up / $2.00 KO for Struve)

I haven't fired yet but I think Silva might be where the value is in that fight. Struve is just so incredibly bad so often...
 
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Odds for either Overeem or Arlovski winning by KO are only marginally higher than the odds for them winning straight up - I'm seeing at least $9.00 for ANY other outcome for either fighter.

Much the same with Silva by KO - $2.70 straight up, $3.25 by KO ($1.45 straight up / $2.00 KO for Struve)

I haven't fired yet but I think Silva might be where the value is in that fight. Struve is just so incredibly bad so often...


Silva is where I am seeing the value at as well.

I think if I was to bet on any of those +$9 it would just be a fun small bet in a multi way parlay. Overeem via decision fighting a defensive fight but not finding that big shot ?? Could be possible ??

Good luck with what ever you decide.
 
martymart48

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Thank Guys :)

I bet today 25$ Silva Straight up 2,60 on partypoker

and I Bet 5$ Silva + Overeem


Last Time Mc Gregor Vs Diaz ----------- Bet on Diaz :)
-----------Holm vs Tate ------------------ bet on Tate :)
-------------------------------------------- Bet on Nunes :)

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OzExorcist

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Overeem via decision fighting a defensive fight but not finding that big shot ?? Could be possible ??

Yeah it could be - both guys have the combination of huge power AND suspect chins by heavyweight standards, so the odds are almost certainly correct that someone going to sleep is the most likely outcome here.

There are a couple of wrinkles to consider though. This is an intra-gym fight with them both training at Jackson-Winklejohn. There are stories that apparently they've always been a bit at odds in the gym, even before this fight was announced, but they might not be going for the kill as much as they otherwise would.

Also Jackson and Winklejohn, and I believe the camp's head wrestling coach, will all be cornering Arlovski. The camp's head striking coach, Brandon Gibson, won't be cornering either fighter on the night. Overeem will have his own striking coaches in his corner.

(above info from the latest couple of episodes of http://heavyhandspodcast.com/ if anyone's interested - FWIW Gibson sat firmly on the fence when asked which way he thought this fight would go, as you'd probably expect him to)
 
martymart48

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Next Time I will Bet Big Foot Under 1,5 Round :D

Good fight for Overeem (He/it is powerful and smart)

Overeem deserves a title fight ?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Today UFC 198 :) Not the best One ?

I will watch 4-5 Fight :)

Miocic Can win the title Today ??

Thank All :)

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SMD Jabroni

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it is bad that i want cyborg to get KO'd or win in real shitty fashion and still piss dirty?
 
SMD Jabroni

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Is there a designated betting thread around here?
I'm thinking about making a couple bets for tonights UFC and wanted some tips from yall.
 
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Not sure about a designated betting thread .. but we discuss our UFC ( MMA ) bets in this thread also.
 
Mr Sandbag

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McGregor vs Mayweather looks like it's actually going to happen. Can't knock McGregor for chasing the money, but even as a casual MMA fan I've lost interest in him. Fighters like Silva, JBJ, and Rousey are/were fun to watch because of the possibility of years-long dominance. McGregor hasn't even made an effort to defend his title. He won't be around long - clearly his career goal is to get rich fast and retire, even if it means accepting a fight in another sport that he can't possibly win.
 
OzExorcist

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For me the potential that he'll do crazy stuff on a moment's notice or, y'know, potentially LOSE any given fight is what makes him the most interesting guy in the sport. There's a genuine excitement to not knowing WTF is going to happen whenever he steps in the cage.

You couldn't really say that about Rousey or Silva or Jones at the height of their powers. As much as I appreciate them as fighters (and I do, a lot), there wasn't necessarily a lot of doubt as to what was going to happen.

As to McGregor fighting Mayweather LOL take a chill pill and don't believe it until an actual bout agreement has been signed. Even if both fighters are serious about making this happen there's about a bajillion promotional and legal hurdles to jump through. Remember how long it took to make Mayweather-Pacquiao come together?
 
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Conor against that wife beater would the least interesting fight ever IMO. Conor was going to get KO'd by Nate if he didn't made that ridiculous take down attempt. So boxing match, boxer wins. MMA fight, mma fighter wins.

a grappling match, on the other hand, would be very interesting. They are pretty much at same level.
 
Mr Sandbag

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Tbh I'm not sure the UFC will get in the way of the Mayweather fight as long as they get their cut. IMO they're probably starting to realize McGregor isn't really a long term star. He got finished by Diaz, he wants a boxing match in which he'll undoubtedly get annihilated, and he's not even willing to defend his title. Not only that, but he basically demanded a rematch with Diaz but was unwilling to give one to Aldo. Sure Aldo got knocked out in 13 seconds, but McGregor got submitted in the 2nd round and didn't even look good in the fight.

The whole thing looks like such a get-rich-quick scheme to me. I can't knock him for it, but as a fan it's not interesting to watch.
 
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