'Black Friday' and associated fallout megathread

[OzExorcist]

At least it seems like I'll be able to get my stars money which is enough to buy me in to a local live game. I just hope FTP comes through since then I will be ROLLED for the live game.

FWIW, what I'm reading is that neither site actually knows how they're going to get their money to you at this point because neither of them has worked that out with the DoJ yet.

I'd be pretty confident both sites will pay, at least amounts that are in player accounts - amounts in limbo with payment processors is likely another matter for both sites.

Absolutely Stars is using a much calmer and more conciliatory tone in its communications right now but so far I haven't read anything that says they have a solution that Full Tilt doesn't.

For those talking about the PPA response, by the way, this is worth a look:

http://wickedchopspoker.com/the-ppa...eshaping-the-online-poker-regulation-message/

Wicked Chops (who I don't think get enough credit for being some of the smartest poker bloggers around) have put up an alternative message that people can send to their elected representatives instead of the standard PPA one.

 

[smd173]

Kind of disappointed that there were only 65,000. If 15 million americans have poker accounts, and the PPA has a million members, that's a pretty poor showing.

Yeah, no kidding. That's not even enough to fill most football stadiums.

If a tv show got that kind of number, it'd be canceled.

 

[cardriverx]

ugh. good thing I had 93% of my roll on FullTilt . I just want to withdraw it !

 

[juice561]

3 checks from tilt = BOUNCED

now if i understand correctly, only players with money in the FTP account will be able to withdrawal.....so what about me ive had 3 checks bounced and bank accounts closed because they said i am HIGH RISK. wtf does that mean? and how do i get my money? grrrrrrrrrrrrr grrrrrrrrrrrr grrrrrrrrr

 

[alaskabill]

FWIW, what I'm reading is that neither site actually knows how they're going to get their money to you at this point because neither of them has worked that out with the DoJ yet.

I'd be pretty confident both sites will pay, at least amounts that are in player accounts - amounts in limbo with payment processors is likely another matter for both sites.

Absolutely Stars is using a much calmer and more conciliatory tone in its communications right now but so far I haven't read anything that says they have a solution that Full Tilt doesn't.

For those talking about the PPA response, by the way, this is worth a look:

http://wickedchopspoker.com/the-ppa...eshaping-the-online-poker-regulation-message/

Wicked Chops (who I don't think get enough credit for being some of the smartest poker bloggers around) have put up an alternative message that people can send to their elected representatives instead of the standard PPA one.

Oz,


Awesome link. Wicked Chops message is exactly the type of thing that actually gets politicians attention. Thanks for sharing this.

 

[pokerman27]

FWIW, what I'm reading is that neither site actually knows how they're going to get their money to you at this point because neither of them has worked that out with the DoJ yet.

I'd be pretty confident both sites will pay, at least amounts that are in player accounts - amounts in limbo with payment processors is likely another matter for both sites.

Absolutely Stars is using a much calmer and more conciliatory tone in its communications right now but so far I haven't read anything that says they have a solution that Full Tilt doesn't.

For those talking about the PPA response, by the way, this is worth a look:

http://wickedchopspoker.com/the-ppa...eshaping-the-online-poker-regulation-message/

Wicked Chops (who I don't think get enough credit for being some of the smartest poker bloggers around) have put up an alternative message that people can send to their elected representatives instead of the standard PPA one.

Oz,


Awesome link. Wicked Chops message is exactly the type of thing that actually gets politicians attention. Thanks for sharing this.

Agreed - good link. The PPA have really handled this situation terribly. Let's not forget that online poker really isn't the major problem here, it's how Stars and Tilt circumvented the law and have found themselves in a total fraud/money laundering shit storm. As much as everyone is pissed off with what happened can you really expect the US government to turn a blind eye to this? This isn't about the right and wrongs of Internet poker.

 

[Poker Orifice]

A bit off-topic but this evening in the FTOPS#10 I'm seeing ALOT of players in this who 'were' from US but are now playing from other countries (canada, mexico, austria, UK). I'll often rail the bigger MTT's online & follow a handful of the better players. Lots of them in tonight's game!!! Cool!!

THings lookin' good now for US players to be getting their funds back. Also very cool. Recent updates on PokerNews & others... lookin' good.

For anyone wanting to get caught up (errr.. caught up at least til a few days ago), they might wanna give the Podcast a listen to... really good episode this week.

 

[the Styb]

The PPA have really handled this situation terribly.

No kidding. i got the PPA "action" link, wrote my congressman and senator, wrote the DOJ and their Facebook page, then 24 hours later I get another e-mail from the PPA telling me I didn't do anything!

PPA opening statement:

On Monday April 18th I sent you an email “Now is the Time We Fight Back!” and you opened this important message but didn’t take any of the actions I requested. I want to make sure that you didn’t have any difficulty with our action page or if it was unclear on how to take anyone of the 8 actions that were presented to you on the action page.

Upshot of the letter? Al D'Amato wants more effing money! Guess who really didn't do anything Al? What assholes!

From Poker Orifice:

...I'm seeing ALOT of players in this who 'were' from US but are now playing from other countries (Canada, Mexico, Austria, UK). I'll often rail the bigger MTT's online & follow a handful of the better players. Lots of them in tonight's game!!! Cool!!

Yeah, nothing says "responsible gaming" more than a bunch of idiots faking their IP addresses under their regular names. That'll sure show the government how law abiding and trustworthy US players are…


The UIGEA Board by M Styborski, on Flickr

 

[Poker Orifice]

No kidding. i got the PPA "action" link, wrote my congressman and senator, wrote the DOJ and their Facebook page, then 24 hours later I get another e-mail from the PPA telling me I didn't do anything!

PPA opening statement:


Upshot of the letter? Al D'Amato wants more effing money! Guess who really didn't do anything Al? What assholes!

From Poker Orifice:


Yeah, nothing says "responsible gaming" more than a bunch of idiots faking their IP addresses under their regular names. That'll sure show the government how law abiding and trustworthy US players are…


The UIGEA Board by M Styborski, on Flickr

So I'm hearing> you're assuming these guys are 'idiots' & that they are 'faking' their IP addresses. Is that correct?
Cuz I'd have to differ on this one. Have heard a few of their stories (from hopping on the plane to Europe, to owning rental properites outside of US, etc.). I'm also referring to some who are ranked in Top100 online MTT players... some of whom have profits in excess of $1mil.
It's really not that difficult to set up residence in Canada, open a bank account & get back playing online (on FTP at least)/

 

[the Styb]

So I'm hearing> you're assuming these guys are 'idiots' & that they are 'faking' their IP addresses. Is that correct?
Cuz I'd have to differ on this one. Have heard a few of their stories (from hopping on the plane to Europe, to owning rental properites outside of US, etc.). I'm also referring to some who are ranked in Top100 online MTT players... some of whom have profits in excess of $1mil.
It's really not that difficult to set up residence in Canada, open a bank account & get back playing online (on FTP at least)/

Fair enough. So far the only US players I've heard of getting back in are those that have been bragging about masking their locations. My bad, sir!

 

[BelgoSuisse]

Meh, if you're balla enough, you have residences in multiple countries, so changing location is no big deal.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

KAAHK,

FTP blatantly broke the law, but not only did they break the law they kept players funds in accounts that could be easily seized by the DoJ. They have also entered into an agreement with the state that essentially stops them from providing a service to US customers (yes that's right they entered into THE EXACT SAME AGREEMENT AS STARS) but with no means of actually facilitating the cashouts that form the entire point of the agreement from their perspective and you're trying to argue they did and are doing the right thing? Seriously?

I'm pretty confident FT players will get their money back, but expect them to take a hell of a lot longer about it than Stars - not because they're forming some kind of internet poker resistance but because they're ****ing incompetent.

 

[Poker Orifice]

I wish I could be incompetent & set up a multi-billion dollar enterprise. I consider myself competent & can barely maintain a 4-figure online bankroll (I'm prolly in denial).

 

[the Styb]

I wish I could be incompetent & set up a multi-billion dollar enterprise. I consider myself competent & can barely maintain a 4-figure online bankroll (I'm prolly in denial).

4-figures is easy for me. Especially since one of them is a decimal!

 

[DetroitJimmy]

My check I confirmed was good before I cashed it on Friday was finally returned. It's kinda funny how I call to confirm, cash check, then come home and 2 hours later this thread starts. Oh well. Just hope $'s go back to my FTP account so it can be returned to me one day.

BTW I will go north to Canada if I have to. The more stupid shit my government does, the less I want to live and pay taxes here. Also planning on taking all my friends with me. All two of them .

 

[BelgoSuisse]

New FTP answers thread: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/ftp-answers-4-21-a-1024944/

 

[juice561]

doubt the money will go back to my ftp acct im so mad idk what to do anymore. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr why did i request payments in checks ggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[DetroitJimmy]

doubt the money will go back to my ftp acct im so mad idk what to do anymore. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr why did i request payments in checks ggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Just make sure to get copies of returned checks. Don't see any reason it wouldn't get returned to your FTP account although it may take a VERY LONG time. This is if everything goes as planned and DOJ and FTP find method we can withdraw legally with. I highly doubt it will be anytime soon.

 

[Logan2]

So, basically Stars is going to return $ to players and in the other side Fulltilt is going to "keep fighting" (that is what understand to TheKAAHK) but keep our money until they want? and both sign the same agreement?.

Not sure why you see better the Fulltilt aproach?.

Im NOT US Player and still can´t withdraw because this crap, so i don´t see why that fulltilt keep fighting is going to help in anyway to anyone.

They can fight all they want, but that not mean pay the lawyers with our money, release the money then can fight.

I can play in Fulltilt and now not even want to, don´t see the point to continue giving more money.

Really disapointed from them to be true.

 

[Charade You Are]

For those talking about the PPA response, by the way, this is worth a look:

http://wickedchopspoker.com/the-ppa...eshaping-the-online-poker-regulation-message/

Wicked Chops (who I don't think get enough credit for being some of the smartest poker bloggers around) have put up an alternative message that people can send to their elected representatives instead of the standard PPA one.

I changed the PPA message before I sent them. While I don't totally disagree with the wickedchopspoker message, I have other issues.

While we might have to eat the fact that poker and casinos are inexoribly intertwined, my fight is to have online poker legalized. I could care less about casinos since they are so obviously behind this action.

It's also ridiculous that the Commerce Department takes the following view which is so at odds with the current situation:

"While we work to ensure that the Internet remains an open marketplace for ideas and beliefs, it must also remain an open marketplace for business. In recent years, however, we have seen a significant up-tick in threats to the free flow of information on the Internet," Locke said.

At the Commerce Department, we feel strongly that the Internet must remain, as much as possible, a worldwide open market, one where vigorous competition is allowed to thrive and where trade barriers are negligible." http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/120543-locke-says-threats-to-internet-freedom-are-growing

It's not like these sites are operating out of someone's garage. They are licensed to operate by various gaming commissions around the world.

In my world, the ideal solution would be to add online poker to the list of exempt activities from the UIGEA (which is a joke of a law). And without getting into the definition of gambling, IMO throwing money at a slot machine all day long is world's apart from playing poker. And I do think that online casinos will increase the number of gambling addicts much more so than online poker, since little effort or thought is involved.

But I also don't think that's it the Governments job to protect adults from themselves. Although I wouldn't be totally against some kind of depositing limits. You can see this even in investing, for example, where, unless you have a net worth above x, you can't invest in certain instruments.

 

[DetroitJimmy]

So, basically Stars is going to return $ to players and in the other side Fulltilt is going to "keep fighting" (that is what understand to TheKAAHK) but keep our money until they want? and both sign the same agreement?.

Not sure why you see better the Fulltilt aproach?.

Im NOT US Player and still can´t withdraw because this crap, so i don´t see why that fulltilt keep fighting is going to help in anyway to anyone.

They can fight all they want, but that not mean pay the lawyers with our money, release the money then can fight.

I can play in Fulltilt and now not even want to, don´t see the point to continue giving more money.


really disapointed from them to be true.

That's the way I see it. I don't want them to have my money in their hands while they fight a fight they can't win. I am truly pissed off at the way FTP is handling our BR, but hey, WTF are we gonna do about it?(Besides all the PPA shit that everyone should do!)

 

[NineLions]

KAAHK,

FTP blatantly broke the law, but not only did they break the law they kept players funds in accounts that could be easily seized by the DoJ. They have also entered into an agreement with the state that essentially stops them from providing a service to US customers (yes that's right they entered into THE EXACT SAME AGREEMENT AS STARS) but with no means of actually facilitating the cashouts that form the entire point of the agreement from their perspective and you're trying to argue they did and are doing the right thing? Seriously?

I'm pretty confident FT players will get their money back, but expect them to take a hell of a lot longer about it than Stars - not because they're forming some kind of internet poker resistance but because they're ****ing incompetent.

The one good thing coming out of the seizure: Issues like this bring Dorkus out of hiding.

 

[FereZ]

Fml..
Wasted my fulltilt points & bucks on panic..
Shouldn't have done that, and im from Europe so i didn't even have any reason to panic.

I'm sorry about US players

 

[dj11]

HOW are the funds going to be sent?

For sometime now, the banks have been increasing scrutiny about monies being moved, and that is via software. It could easily be months before anything can clear.

I feel OK with letting my funds sit until I can be sure of the method.

 

[TheKAAHK]

Easy guys! I'm aware they both broke the same law. I'm aware they both entered into the same agreement with the DoJ. The thing that irks me is Stars says "we're gonna give you your money back, we're just not sure when or how" and you all think "Horray! we gettin; paid!". Unfrtunately there is no timeline on all this at this point. FTP just is not saying anything except they are continuing to pursue options to keep the US market and to just be patient for a little bit.

I have done a fair bit of reading on where FTP keeps player's funds, and to my understanding it is also kept in a trust account just like Stars, not in normal operational accounts. So they're not keeping anything, they just are not getting hopes up at this time.

Everyone's going to get their money back eventually. And for those complaining about withdrawals (non-American), relax, it hasn't even been a week.