Just how random ARE the random card generators in poker?

[MauroMMMM]

Hi. I don't think they are random. It is easy to see if you play many hands, you can already anticipate that the probability percentages are not real. Both in the cards you receive, as in the flop, and more in the turn and the river. That is why I believe that online poker should be taken only as a hobby. It's okay that good players surely have a better chance of winning ... But the algorithms of the programs play against them.

 

[BigCountryAA]

ACR feels more random than Global Poker by a mile. I see multiple 4 of a kind every day on global. I go weeks without seeing 4 of a kind on ACR. It's just so weird to see 4 of a kind show up so much..or str8 flushes show up so much.

 

[VBB112]

I have no concerns about the randomness of hands. It's so easy to accomplish and ensuring only specific people benefit from it would be hard to keep from getting out eventually. The fallout far outweighs the risk/benefits, but then I'm not a big conspiracy theory subscriber, either.

 

[chippmonk]

Manmade algorithm can never be random.

 

[sergey3]

If you are not tired of reading then yes I could write a program that specifically deals the cards one way and favors certain players or manipulates the cards according to a flop or players hold cards. But that would not be a random deal and that would not pass any certification criteria.

I would like to believe it

 

[fletchdad]

Back when I played seriously, I had about 1.5 million hands saved in my HEM data, and I ran some tests, such as how many times did I win with AA, but I ran a number of tests. This is all years ago now, but I remember the numbers being close enough to where they should be that I felt fine about everything. A majority of the hands were from poker stars, but also 888 and Carbon.

 

[Allyte]

What do we know about the random card generators?

a) it's a program.
b) every program has front end and back end.
c) programs are made by humans.
d) humans lie.
e) the end.

Great answer

 

[ludinj]

i would belived it is random if i would not always loose when i got an 70% chanse of winning

 

[swerdnase]

A computer generated game will be more random than most live dealers.

This ^.

The whole poker is rigged argument has been around since the early years of online poker, and a full two decades later, people are still blaming RNG for their losses. The simple fact is that many players have been successful both live and online. How come they have not fallen victims to RNG?

 

[emanuelorteg]

What do we know about the random card generators?

a) it's a program.
b) every program has front end and back end.
c) programs are made by humans.
d) humans lie.
e) the end.

I never saw so much truth together in a post :icon_thum:icon_thum

 

[fletchdad]

What do we know about the random card generators?

a) it's a program.
b) every program has front end and back end.
c) programs are made by humans.
d) humans lie.
e) the end.

So, using this "logic", just do not use computer programs.

Great advice.

The end.

 

[Joe]

So, using this "logic", just do not use computer programs.

Great advice.

The end.

The percentile of Earth humans who directly use or are indirectly assisted by no computer programs whatsoever on a day-to-day basis... :laugh:


Lodden thinks anyone?



:sheep:

 

[finaltable1]

So, using this "logic", just do not use computer programs.

Great advice.

The end.

You're so clever, I bet that Einstein was your student. Using your "deductive methods" one day you will realize that Chlorine(Cl) is a poisonous gas, and Sodium(NA) is a dangerous metal. Salt in your kitchen has following chemical formula = NaCl, SO? You're poisoning yourself - right?

Let's have a look at 2 simple examples.

Example 1:
a) Program "Adobe Photoshop" is sold as it is, it's a great tool for designers. But one day creators have decided to extract some additional profit. And they came up with a simple idea - why don't we sell some add-ons for the Photoshop to designers who have some specific needs.From the other side, designers are using Photoshop as a tool to extract profit from their customers. Everything is simple and obvious. We can clearly see how creators and users of the program are getting their profits. We can clearly see front end and we can see back end - the source code and how it used.

b) Program "Ancient slots" is designed for casinos and is sold to casino owners as a program for electronic slot machines. Casinos are extracting profit from their "customers". These victims have no access to back end of the program they're using. They can't see the code, all they can see is some sort of game mechanics bullsht on the screen. It's not a secret that such programs are designed to generate profit and "admins" = those who have access to back end of such programs are able to manipulate with such numbers like "payback %" and "chance to win". In such games you may be a victim of "never win" mode.

Example 2:
a) Program "World of Tanks" is a popular online game, it's free, but if you want to be better than others - you can buy some virtual trash like tanks/ammo/weapons/armor and so on... It's just pixels on the screen, but some humanoids falsely believe that it's something that they really need, that's why they're purchasing these pixels with real money. Nothing can stop administration from creation of fake accounts with much much more dominating tanks and use these virtual players to hit down those who pay money, just to spend their ammo, so they will buy it again soon.
Do you have access to game code, game mechanics or back end(admin panel), can you prove that administration is not doing it? Can they do it? Yes they can. Are they honest? I don't know any of them, and i'm not sure if any of them can control it, it can be actually controlled by a single person - general owner.

b) Program online poker - What can you prove here? NO TH ING! All that people prefer to do is to act like a blind sheep and keep trusting their shepherd(their favorite poker site) Because their shepherd is giving them a daily doze of adrenaline in their safe home environment. That's all.

From these examples we can clearly see that programs are different. Some are based on "take it or leave it" system. Some are based on pay per view or pay per touch or pay per imbecile. Is online poker rigged? I don't know for sure, I do know that this planet is full of idiots, and wise guys prefer to extract juices from that horde of idiots.
In general, poker is a very simple game, you always have just 2 decisions, I mean 2 questions to answer. 1) Am I an idiot? 2) Am I not an idiot? Answers to these questions are not related to cards/position/buy-ins and such, answers are based on if you're playing poker or not. You could save lives being a surgeon, you could do something really useful for the society and for yourself instead of sitting in a chair and trying to prove to yourself that you're "professzioblablbla playa"
LOL so funny:help:

 

[johnnylawford]

you always have just 2 decisions, I mean 2 questions to answer. 1) Am I an idiot? 2) Am I not an idiot?

 

[jleon_zat]

we will never know xD

 

[finaltable1]

LOL, such jokes are not designed for people with low iQ level. After some time an imbecile will
understand that obvious part. The sad part of it is that majority will never even think that there is a hidden part of the joke. In addition they will never even think about something like "3d-dimensional thinking" Who cares about your subjective point of view, opponents subjective point of view and objective point of view of independent observer named "The Truth". Why they will never think about such things? because in their universe alphabet starts with letter "I" and the most important argument is "I say so"
I do respect those who can think like an idiot... when it's necessary.

 

[bozo77]

everything is an electronic sistem, and everything is based on an electronic sistem means that can be modified anytime u want...

 

[Rob Hobson]

I feel (but this may be my particular impression) that there are more aces falling on the boards (from flop to river) than normal.

 

[Comboss599]

That's what makes me confused all the time. How this system works? If flop, turn and river are known before bidding or that is randomly live through the game. Anyone knows?

 

[Joe]

You're so clever, I bet that Einstein was your student. Using your "deductive methods" one day you will realize that Chlorine(Cl) is a poisonous gas, and Sodium(NA) is a dangerous metal. Salt in your kitchen has following chemical formula = NaCl, SO? You're poisoning yourself - right?

Let's have a look at 2 simple examples.

Example 1:
a) Program "Adobe Photoshop" is sold as it is, it's a great tool for designers. But one day creators have decided to extract some additional profit. And they came up with a simple idea - why don't we sell some add-ons for the Photoshop to designers who have some specific needs.From the other side, designers are using Photoshop as a tool to extract profit from their customers. Everything is simple and obvious. We can clearly see how creators and users of the program are getting their profits. We can clearly see front end and we can see back end - the source code and how it used.

b) Program "Ancient Slots" is designed for casinos and is sold to casino owners as a program for electronic slot machines. Casinos are extracting profit from their "customers". These victims have no access to back end of the program they're using. They can't see the code, all they can see is some sort of game mechanics bullsht on the screen. It's not a secret that such programs are designed to generate profit and "admins" = those who have access to back end of such programs are able to manipulate with such numbers like "payback %" and "chance to win". In such games you may be a victim of "never win" mode.

Example 2:
a) Program "World of Tanks" is a popular online game, it's free, but if you want to be better than others - you can buy some virtual trash like tanks/ammo/weapons/armor and so on... It's just pixels on the screen, but some humanoids falsely believe that it's something that they really need, that's why they're purchasing these pixels with real money. Nothing can stop administration from creation of fake accounts with much much more dominating tanks and use these virtual players to hit down those who pay money, just to spend their ammo, so they will buy it again soon.
Do you have access to game code, game mechanics or back end(admin panel), can you prove that administration is not doing it? Can they do it? Yes they can. Are they honest? I don't know any of them, and i'm not sure if any of them can control it, it can be actually controlled by a single person - general owner.

b) Program online poker - What can you prove here? NO TH ING! All that people prefer to do is to act like a blind sheep and keep trusting their shepherd(their favorite poker site) Because their shepherd is giving them a daily doze of adrenaline in their safe home environment. That's all.

From these examples we can clearly see that programs are different. Some are based on "take it or leave it" system. Some are based on pay per view or pay per touch or pay per imbecile. Is online poker rigged? I don't know for sure, I do know that this planet is full of idiots, and wise guys prefer to extract juices from that horde of idiots.
In general, poker is a very simple game, you always have just 2 decisions, I mean 2 questions to answer. 1) Am I an idiot? 2) Am I not an idiot? Answers to these questions are not related to cards/position/buy-ins and such, answers are based on if you're playing poker or not. You could save lives being a surgeon, you could do something really useful for the society and for yourself instead of sitting in a chair and trying to prove to yourself that you're "professzioblablbla playa"
LOL so funny:help:

It is my understanding that elements such as chlorine and sodium (and their properties) are subject to change when they react or are formed into chemical compounds with other elements so whilst they might be poisonous individually, that doesn't necessarily mean table salt is lethal...

... although we do eat & drink a great deal of poison for one reason or other...

As you know, I've always admired your posts... Pray tell, what would be your top five alternate suggestions for one pursuing the pro poker dream?

Regards,


~EDiT:- Did you pick up my latest PM?

 

[fletchdad]

Wow........ I obviously offended you......

I'm sorry.......

You're so clever, I bet that Einstein was your student. Using your "deductive methods" one day you will realize that Chlorine(Cl) is a poisonous gas, and Sodium(NA) is a dangerous metal. Salt in your kitchen has following chemical formula = NaCl, SO? You're poisoning yourself - right?

Let's have a look at 2 simple examples.

Example 1:
a) Program "Adobe Photoshop" is sold as it is, it's a great tool for designers. But one day creators have decided to extract some additional profit. And they came up with a simple idea - why don't we sell some add-ons for the Photoshop to designers who have some specific needs.From the other side, designers are using Photoshop as a tool to extract profit from their customers. Everything is simple and obvious. We can clearly see how creators and users of the program are getting their profits. We can clearly see front end and we can see back end - the source code and how it used.

b) Program "Ancient Slots" is designed for casinos and is sold to casino owners as a program for electronic slot machines. Casinos are extracting profit from their "customers". These victims have no access to back end of the program they're using. They can't see the code, all they can see is some sort of game mechanics bullsht on the screen. It's not a secret that such programs are designed to generate profit and "admins" = those who have access to back end of such programs are able to manipulate with such numbers like "payback %" and "chance to win". In such games you may be a victim of "never win" mode.

Example 2:
a) Program "World of Tanks" is a popular online game, it's free, but if you want to be better than others - you can buy some virtual trash like tanks/ammo/weapons/armor and so on... It's just pixels on the screen, but some humanoids falsely believe that it's something that they really need, that's why they're purchasing these pixels with real money. Nothing can stop administration from creation of fake accounts with much much more dominating tanks and use these virtual players to hit down those who pay money, just to spend their ammo, so they will buy it again soon.
Do you have access to game code, game mechanics or back end(admin panel), can you prove that administration is not doing it? Can they do it? Yes they can. Are they honest? I don't know any of them, and i'm not sure if any of them can control it, it can be actually controlled by a single person - general owner.

b) Program online poker - What can you prove here? NO TH ING! All that people prefer to do is to act like a blind sheep and keep trusting their shepherd(their favorite poker site) Because their shepherd is giving them a daily doze of adrenaline in their safe home environment. That's all.

From these examples we can clearly see that programs are different. Some are based on "take it or leave it" system. Some are based on pay per view or pay per touch or pay per imbecile. Is online poker rigged? I don't know for sure, I do know that this planet is full of idiots, and wise guys prefer to extract juices from that horde of idiots.
In general, poker is a very simple game, you always have just 2 decisions, I mean 2 questions to answer. 1) Am I an idiot? 2) Am I not an idiot? Answers to these questions are not related to cards/position/buy-ins and such, answers are based on if you're playing poker or not. You could save lives being a surgeon, you could do something really useful for the society and for yourself instead of sitting in a chair and trying to prove to yourself that you're "professzioblablbla playa"
LOL so funny:help:

 

[Serjo600]

it is not present, if you analyze with 10K hands, it becomes clear that everything is fair enough

 

[finaltable1]

It is my understanding that elements such as chlorine and sodium (and their properties) are subject to change when they react or are formed into chemical compounds with other elements so whilst they might be poisonous individually, that doesn't necessarily mean table salt is lethal...

... although we do eat & drink a great deal of poison for one reason or other...

As you know, I've always admired your posts... Pray tell, what would be your top five alternate suggestions for one pursuing the pro poker dream?

Regards,


~EDiT:- Did you pick up my latest PM?

What PM? I haven't received anything.

You're admiring my posts? Oh it can't be, cause i'm such a ....... well, you know, cause since you know what I know, then you must also know that I know what I wanted to type there .

I believe that example with the salt was nice one, It was an answer to some sort of "we shouldn't use programs at all" message. It's like "Use it but don't over use it, or you'll do damage to yourself". 1kilogramm of salt during a day is a deadly doze for almost any human. No salt at all will lead to diseases and death. So there must be a balance - right? What is the correct balance? In case of poker - both online poker rooms and live casinos want to ruin balance of each individual player to obtain manipulative control. It's not like there is a team sitting and observing you to find out your weaknesses(well, maybe in live casinos such teams exist), but in case of online poker rooms - it's just their game of trends and psychological tricks written in code and represented to you in forms of interface, bonuses, promotions and such trash. It's a virtual manipulation, the deeper you fall in it the more promising it looks, you can almost touch the cards, you can almost feel the perfume and sweat of your opponents.But everything is just a gigantic con.

Why it's a con? Any good and prospering relationship in human society is based on "win-win" scheme. Person must realize that his only and single chance to win is if he accepts the fact that he's paying money and time and some energy for the feelings he will be getting. At this point it doesn't matter if individual is a winning or losing player. That's a single subjective point of view where individual can feel that "win-win" works for him. From all other objective points of view 100% of poker players are losers, they lose time, they lose money, they work for a program, they're not doing anything useful for the society in general and for themselves too, statistically online poker leads to real life debts, divorces, problems with law, alcohol, drugs and so on. SO Casino wins, players lose. If you accept the fact that you're a loser - go ahead and catch your quads on the river, that's what subjectively your mind is looking for to give you a fake feelings like "I'm a winner"... Ok Ok, You're a Winner of the pot? no problem, WINNER of the tourney? no problem, WINNER OF THE YEAR? Great, but still You're a loser. If someone is not getting it still then let's have a look at two drug users, both of them are using heroine, one is richer, the other one is homeless, one can have his doze of perfect clean heroine several times per day, the other one is getting some trash portions mixed with replacements. Both of them are feeling like they're winners, but what do you feel when you're looking at them from apart? Do they look like winners? That's what majority of the society objectively thinks about card players. The first step to solve the problem is to understand the problem and describe it as deep as possible, to find the roots and see where this problem is coming from. Whole poker media world is screaming loud "It's not a problem" So LOL, why would some poker fan will ever read my posts, while there is a post written by Daniel or whatever Phil, where they say how shocking iot was to see Nine at the river... Some say that it's entertainment, but once again - where is the balance with this salt? It's a nice entertainment when you're watching a movie once every two months, it's a nice entertainment when you're playing some live poker with friends once a month or three. It's nice to reward yourself with a cigar and glass of some nice strong stuff once during couple of months, but if you're addicted - you must realize that you're not rewarding yourself anymore, you're sick and it's a road of self destruction of your character. It's hard for a human to be his own psychologist... too hard, I guess that i'm analyzing myself through posts of some other people at this forum and lol for past 3+ years it worked for me like if cardschat is some sort of "Alcoholics anonymous" but in the field of gambling.

Pray tell, what would be your top five alternate suggestions for one pursuing the pro poker dream?

Can you explain what exactly do you mean by saying "alternate suggestions" ? Can you find these suggestions in what I've typed above, or you had something else in mind?

 

[finaltable1]

Wow........ I obviously offended you......

I'm sorry.......

Really? Why? I always though that there is no need and no place for such tolerance here at CC!
I'm very positive in my life and keep trying to put some joke or sarcasm in my posts here, or even trying to chew things up like if i'm talking to some child That's why i actually was thinking that my post may insult you BUT i haven't stopped and posted it, and I don't feel sorry about it. Cause if this tolerance will go on, then next year we'll be bringing "heavy apologies" for not saying "sorry" before saying "hi". I hope that you're also not having any hard feelings, and why don't we just throw some liquid sh!t to the propeller of this thread's theme? It's much more fun, isn't it?

 

[fletchdad]

Really? Why? I always though that there is no need and no place for such tolerance here at CC!
I'm very positive in my life and keep trying to put some joke or sarcasm in my posts here, or even trying to chew things up like if i'm talking to some child That's why i actually was thinking that my post may insult you BUT i haven't stopped and posted it, and I don't feel sorry about it. Cause if this tolerance will go on, then next year we'll be bringing "heavy apologies" for not saying "sorry" before saying "hi". I hope that you're also not having any hard feelings, and why don't we just throw some liquid sh!t to the propeller of this thread's theme? It's much more fun, isn't it?

Wow, ok. I get it......

Have fun. Be safe..............