Building from a baby bankroll

[Wilsh0]

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, STOP PLAYING MTTs!

Here's the bit where I'm going to contradict myself.

If I were to tell you I'd just made $10 from a freeroll and I was going to take it straight to a PLO cash game table to start trying to build a roll from it, how many people would think I was mad?

I think it might be more than a few. A select few of them will have prior knowledge of how much I suck at PLO. But others, even without that knowledge, would likely point out that the variance in PLO can be a killer and I'd be better off playing something with a more stable return. They'd probably be right too.

But here's the thing - a lot of those same people probably wouldn't bat an eyelid if I said I was going to take that $10 and play the Daily Dollar or something with it. Which is a funny thing, because as far as variance goes things don't really get much more swingy than multi-table tournaments. You certainly want a lot more than 20-30 buy ins to be rolled for them.

As discussed above, we already need to get very lucky to build a roll from nothing. We don't need to compound our problems by stacking variance against us - instead, we need to concentrate on games that offer us at least some chance of grinding a slow but steady path upwards. That usually means ring games or single-table SnGs and I'm recommending that, at least for the initial stages, you steer clear of MTTs and the horrible swings they bring. Even if you think they're your best game.

Best advice I have read all month, I constantly play MTT's to try and build my bankroll but constantly bust out after a couple regardless of cashing just after the bubble, I think I might stick to SnG's from now on

 

[nop9gok]

a big problem does not fall into tilt, the initial bankroll can be earned. A week, a month of hard work and tilt, in one, two days all merge

 

[Haze of Spade]

PICK A GAME AND STICK TO IT

Once you've settled on your best game, I'm recommending that you stick to it and play nothing else. A lot of people talk about how they played STTs for a little while and had some small wins, then they tried LHE for a while then lost the rest of their bankroll playing HU cash games.

There's a couple of reasons I think you should play just one game. The first is that we want to leverage our skill as best we can. It makes sense that our skill advantage will be biggest when we're playing our best game. The second reason is that we'll learn more when we concentrate on just one game. If we skip from game to game to game we won't be improving much at any of them because we won't be playing them for long enough. If we stick to one game not only are we maximising our skill edge, we're also maximising our chances to get better at the game, increase our skill edge and build our roll.

There'll be time for dabbling in mixed games and learning new things later, after we've built a stable roll.

YOU HAVE TO GET LUCKY

This is the bit that's going to hurt for some people. Even when we stick to just playing our best game, we're STILL going to need to get lucky in order to build our roll. By definition we've probably got less than good BRM dictates we should have to play in the lowest stakes games. If you're starting off with enough for just one buy in obviously you'll need to get very lucky - you'll need to win in the first game you play in and then keep winning in quite a number after that so that you've got some breathing room.

Even if you start off with, say, 10 or more buy ins though you'll still need a bit of luck to avoid a downswing that wipes out your roll. They happen all the time to players with full size rolls and there's nothing that says it can't happen to us either.

What I'm saying is remember that luck plays a part. Pick your best game and play your best. If you still wind up busto, don't dwell on it or let it get you down. Just pick yourself up, start over and hope for a little more luck next time.

Very true, i lost my bankroll several times before i started at a new side without a deposit where i got 15$ from free tickets. i almost lost it cause i wasnt sure what format i should play with this baby bankroll and i was also very unlucky.

but after i won a freeroll i was up to 5$ and i thought f*k it cash games is what i am best at and i will just take that shot!
and it worked, i did beat 2nl and 5nl and luck did play a huge roll. i was running about 10 BI above ev at 5nl. so with some luck its possible to start even with 2,5 BI lol

 

[ccmonrivah]

very nice post,i cant afford to deposit ,so i play freerolls all day,i think my problem is,im not aggressive,i play cautiously,but have these ppl that goes allin lol,so i fold alot,not that there a best hand,because i used to go allin on ak suited aa,and lose to 34 ect... lol,o well i will keep trying ,gl at tables all:fight::fight:

 

[mitk0one]

PICK A GAME AND STICK TO IT

Once you've settled on your best game, I'm recommending that you stick to it and play nothing else. A lot of people talk about how they played STTs for a little while and had some small wins, then they tried LHE for a while then lost the rest of their bankroll playing HU cash games.

There's a couple of reasons I think you should play just one game. The first is that we want to leverage our skill as best we can. It makes sense that our skill advantage will be biggest when we're playing our best game. The second reason is that we'll learn more when we concentrate on just one game. If we skip from game to game to game we won't be improving much at any of them because we won't be playing them for long enough. If we stick to one game not only are we maximising our skill edge, we're also maximising our chances to get better at the game, increase our skill edge and build our roll.

There'll be time for dabbling in mixed games and learning new things later, after we've built a stable roll.


FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, STOP PLAYING MTTs!

Here's the bit where I'm going to contradict myself.

If I were to tell you I'd just made $10 from a freeroll and I was going to take it straight to a PLO cash game table to start trying to build a roll from it, how many people would think I was mad?

I think it might be more than a few. A select few of them will have prior knowledge of how much I suck at PLO. But others, even without that knowledge, would likely point out that the variance in PLO can be a killer and I'd be better off playing something with a more stable return. They'd probably be right too.

But here's the thing - a lot of those same people probably wouldn't bat an eyelid if I said I was going to take that $10 and play the Daily Dollar or something with it. Which is a funny thing, because as far as variance goes things don't really get much more swingy than multi-table tournaments. You certainly want a lot more than 20-30 buy ins to be rolled for them.

As discussed above, we already need to get very lucky to build a roll from nothing. We don't need to compound our problems by stacking variance against us - instead, we need to concentrate on games that offer us at least some chance of grinding a slow but steady path upwards. That usually means ring games or single-table SnGs and I'm recommending that, at least for the initial stages, you steer clear of MTTs and the horrible swings they bring. Even if you think they're your best game.


DON'T GET HUNG UP ON BONUSES

Free money is a beautiful thing. We all love it, and it's especially attractive when you don't have very much of it to start with.

Free money in the form of bonuses, however, usually comes with strings attached and those strings are almost always having to grind out x amount of frequent player points in real money games. Unlocked right, bonuses can be a fantastic way to pad your earnings and move your bankroll along faster. But done wrong they can send you hurtling backwards.

Take the recent Rush Week promo at Full Tilt. Anybody could participate, and to unlock the bronze level $10 bonus you had to grind out 10 FTPs a day on the Rush tables for seven days straight. Pretty sweet deal, right? Maybe, maybe not. If you're not rolled for the minimum $5NL that you'd need to play to earn the points, or if you're not any good at Rush, then taking this bonus on would be a terrible idea - chances are you'll end up losing more than you stood to win in bonuses and you might jeopardise your whole bankroll in the process.

The same goes for other things people consider doing to unlock other bonuses, like adding more tables than they're comfortable with to run points up faster or playing at higher stakes than they're rolled for. It's a slippery slope, I'm suggesting you just avoid it altogether.

As long as there's competition between online poker sites there'll be bonuses, so there's always another one somewhere around the corner. Stick with the plan, work through the bonuses that you can get safely by just and just playing your normal game at your normal limits and ignore the ones you can't get.

STOP TALKING AND START DOING
(OR "NOBODY ACTUALLY READS YOUR BLOG ANYWAY SO WHY STRESS YOURSELF")

Sometimes I don't know whether to laugh or cry. We've all seen it - someone comes along on a board or starts a blog talking a whole lot about how they're going to build a roll from nothing or how they've got this freeroll cash and they're going to run it up and make loads of money. Some of the dedicated ones even give us day by day or game by game updates for a short period... until the inevitable post where they tell us they're busto either because they played bad, they didn't follow BRM, they had to withdraw all their money for some inane reason or, my personal favourite, the donks ate their bankroll.

Save yourself the time and embarassment by talking less and DOING more. Use the time to actually review your games, rather than telling the world about every single bad beat you ever get. Post actual problem hands for analysis and ask meaningful questions that might help you improve your game, rather than telling everyone about every tiny fluctuation in your bankroll.

You're also putting unnecessary pressure on yourself. Chances are somewhere in the back of your mind there's a though along the lines of "What will I be telling my readers after this session?" and that can have an adverse effect on your game. So stop talking and start doing instead.

That's it, for the moment at least. Run good y'all.

Hello from me! I find the post very useful and informative, especially (for me) in the quoted part of it! From my 1-2 years active experience I found out that building a bankroll from nothing can get you both really excited and frustrated. Excited because of the thought that you're building something from scratch and frustrated, because it's very difficult to do so.

I agree to some extend that you should choose a type of game and stick to it, especially if you are a beginner and haven't even learnt the fundamentals of the game yet, simply because it's really easy to lose yourself. Usually (not just in poker, but in life in general) if you have a clear direction and follow it steadily, success will eventually come!

Currently I am playing almost only MTTs which can be a huge mistake in terms of my personal development as a poker player, but I feel that they give me the opportunity to learn how to adapt and "catch" my opponents quicker when joining a new table.

My question to you guys is if you have the opportunity to play multiple online MTTs at the same time, would you participate in all of them, or focus on just one, and why?

 

[abzdolc]

The thread is good, but the point"YOU HAVE TO GET LUCKY" is not relevant on my opinion.
Here is what I mean - you need a "luck" to win with preflop AA in the main or important pots against just stealing blinds, or in pot with small amount of chips.
Because if you win 4/5 times and win 10 blinds with this hand in different tournaments - it looks very bad.
And if you lose 1/5 times with this hand in the tournament where you had giand amount of chips, you'll remember this one for a long time, and probably tilt.
The math explain where and why we have to play different hands, but "luck" decides, when we'll see and can use option to play our hands

 

[ccmonrivah]

k must say ,after reading post on here yesterday,i won 3 times on acr freerolls,plus also been playing so much ,learning how they play ,

 

[OzExorcist]

My question to you guys is if you have the opportunity to play multiple online MTTs at the same time, would you participate in all of them, or focus on just one, and why?

That depends entirely on you: if you're used to multitabling and you can do it confident that you'll still be playing your best game in all of them then sure, do it. If you're not used to it and you find yourself struggling to concentrate on multiple games at once, your decision making is going to suffer, and you should probably just stick to one.

 

[ccmonrivah]

k so since couple days ago since my post here,been so much better,the bad thing got to big for my briggets,lol,so back to freerolls,gl all:boring:

 

[ccmonrivah]

so time to build up again,was on a 2 day winning streak,then got a big head lol n lost,so to me even if i have ak suited not going allin,worked to hard ,to me its all about patience n seeing the flop,gl all

 

[vavilen_]

thank you very much! useful information!

 

[mitsuaha]

I think I need to read this today. I've been training for tournaments and avoiding cash games, but find myself getting a little frustrated at my own play.

My focus should probably be more on fundamental cash play at micro stakes from a development perspective, but I do enjoy a good MTT. The problem is, I AVOID cash games. So maybe that's the demon I need to slay first and this post inspires me to take it a little less serious and get busy.

May your felt be forever soft

 

[mrmb97]

I use Americas room to build my baby bankroll

 

[ccmonrivah]

im doing good on te msd on 3/4 wish me luck

 

[vaquinhaneva]

I started 0.25 so I got $12.00 now.

 

[muse713]

I think I need to read this today. I've been training for tournaments and avoiding cash games, but find myself getting a little frustrated at my own play.

My focus should probably be more on fundamental cash play at micro stakes from a development perspective, but I do enjoy a good MTT. The problem is, I AVOID cash games. So maybe that's the demon I need to slay first and this post inspires me to take it a little less serious and get busy.

May your felt be forever soft

MTT has very high variance compared to cash games which you know. I play mainly micro stakes cash games and 1 MTT daily. Mix it with as many freerolls as possible. BRM and patience and you will be good.

 

[bijan777]

Baby bank roll is hard
Just with one or tow bad bet or badlauky you ezely loss your bank roll
And the micro stake is happent alot

 

[Fantomas2000]

Bad friends for your bankroll is spin and go But im keep dreaming join to min buy in spin and get max multiplier.

 

[Alpejczyk]

Best advice I have read all month, I constantly play MTT's to try and build my bankroll but constantly bust out after a couple regardless of cashing just after the bubble, I think I might stick to SnG's from now on

Indeed it is the best advice I could get as well! I was also playing ONLY MTT's and it never occurred to me to try something else. I will definitely do that now!

 

[Distort99]

so ive been a cardschat member for a little while now and i have seen multiple threads on this subject, i do have to admit that you touched almost everything with this post. this is one of the best posts ive seen so far on this subject and i beleive you hit the nail on the head. you gave some good information to people on this thread and i think this should be one of the highlighted threads that everyone thats new to cardschat should real. ive never came into the learning poker thread for some reason and this is the first thing that caught my atttention. you made a good post and i beleive you answered alot of questions from others and even myself. thanks again for the good post and putting the effort into touching pretty much every angle. keep up the good work and again thank you for being helpful.

 

[Yanko57]

Best advice I have read all month, I constantly play MTT's to try and build my bankroll but constantly bust out after a couple regardless of cashing just after the bubble, I think I might stick to SnG's from now on

What I like to do with my very low bankroll is play roulette on 888. Black and red one time on thursday's (Eastern time). It gives me a ticket for the following saturday and I play a solid patient game.

3 hours later, I usually end up with 1.10$ or more. Last month, I even made the FT for 13.00$ Nice way to start a BR

 

[proud2Bwhack]

On the MTT debate:

before Black Friday, Full Tilt had Jesus Ferguson build a 10k bankroll from scratch starting with freerolls. (God I miss that era) He journaled the progress online and low and behold with not that much money acquired, he played a few MTTs!!
I had to go back and read it twice, I was like no way!! Now say what you want about Ferguson's playing style, money mgt. is not a problem with him. I think he has a masters degree in game theory from UCLA or something like that. but to this day, I dont know how he rationized the risk involved in playing MTTs knowing the variance you are facing for cashing out. but I know this, he took the whole thing as serious as a heart attack as HE AGREED TO PLAY NO OTHER POKER UNTIL HE GOT TO 10K FROM SCRATCH. So I think he knows something there about MTTs that isnt obvious.

 

[proud2Bwhack]

i misspelled rationalized sorry.

 

[collesut]

Nice post it gives you almost everything you need to know for starting with poker and building your Bankroll from scratch.
Thanks

 

[OzExorcist]

So I think he knows something there about MTTs that isnt obvious.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying never play MTTs ever - I'm just saying don't play them until you're properly rolled for them.

Ferguson ran his bankroll all the way up to $10k, so before long he was fully rolled to be playing whatever format of games he wanted.