Full Tilt Poker Sold to French Investors

[Mentor]

There is NO clarification in that statement. The number stated is still 311 million, but perhaps the time frame is significantly different.

I summed this up in post #96. S put the number at $159 million.The AGCC did not corroborate that number; they simply conceded that the $331 million number was inaccurate.

 

[dmorris68]

There is NO clarification in that statement. The number stated is still 311 million, but perhaps the time frame is significantly different.

The key word is 'seized" DJ. I think it's clear that nowhere near $331m was seized by the DOJ. As the Subjectoker article states in this quote:

This number ($331m) is much higher than the $115 million that Full Tilt reported was seized in the two years before Black Friday combined with the $60 million that the DOJ reported was in Full Tilt’s bank accounts on March 31st (about $10 million of which went to April 1st distribution payments to shareholders).

The actual total amount of money seized by the DOJ as recorded by FTP in its internal accounting for that four year period amounted to $158,793,000, much less than the $331 million that the AGCC tribunal reported. Assuming that this number and Full Tilt’s estimate of $115 million for the pre-Black Friday total are both correct, this leaves about $35-45 million seized on Black Friday itself.2 This range agrees with numbers quoted by many different Subject: Poker sources, and we believe it to be correct.

The AGCC tribunal stated that the false $331 million figure came from “Document JS21(I),” one of many referenced attachments that were not actually included in the publicly available documents. Subject: Poker and other sources familiar with this document have confirmed that JS21(I) contains blatantly false information. In fact, it labels legal disputes with previous processors as seizures, including the $42 million that Full Tilt says was stolen by Daniel Tzvetkoff.3 In addition, the document labels the $128 million e-check shortfall as a DOJ seizure, which of course is also not true, although in this document it is listed $131 million.4 The $331 million “seized” figure could also be otherwise inflated, as the document does indeed include many other errors that we were able to identify.

Right off the bat you can discount more than 1/3 of the $331m just from the shortfall numbers. Pretty disingenuous for them to claim all of these were losses due to "seizures."

 

[alaskabill]

There is NO clarification in that statement. The number stated is still 311 million, but perhaps the time frame is significantly different.

Here is the statement. I have bolded the relevant part.

1.*Correction.
AGCC*wishes*to*correct*and*clarify*an*erroneous*statement*contained*in*the*Commission*tribunal’s*
published*determination*notice*of*the*hearing*into*Full*Tilt,*which*includes*the*statement:‐*“the*
individual*seizures*made*by*the*Department*of*Justice*during*the*period*28th*June*2007*to*20th*June*
2011,*which*amount*to*a*cumulative*total*of*approximately*$331*million*US*Dollars.”*The*underlying*
evidence*in*the*hearing*clearly*demonstrated*that*$331*million*was*the*total*of*funds*unavailable*to
Full*Tilt,*of*which*DOJ*seizures*formed*only*a*part.*The*mis‐statement*is*thus*not*of significance*in*
the*Commission’s*assessment*of*the*matter.

The DOJ did not seize over 300 million. The 330 million was FTP's total shortfall which included crediting deposits that they could not collect and siphoning off the majority of funds in the form of dividends.

I don't mean to be rude at all. I certainly respect and share your frustration at the situation but how can you not see that DOJ seizurew were not nearly what FTP claimed?

Also here is the latest from Subject poker on the same issue.

http://www.subjectpoker.com/2011/10/agcc-331m-wrong-159m/

Edit: I'm a slow pony. Dmorris beat me to it.

 

[OzExorcist]

Bunch of people beat me to posting the latest S link and data

Plus seriously, did nobody see there being a problem with the entire amount of missing funds being accounted for by US seizures? I know the numbers lined up conveniently, but Full Tilt had substantial rest-of-world business, so even if every last cent of US player money was seized they should still have had something like half of their operating funds available. The only way to explain those other missing funds is some other form of mismanagement...

 

[PurgatoryD]

I'd be happy to let them keep my money if they would just let me use it to play on their new site!

What? They're most likely not going to let me play on their new site? And they're going to keep my money anyhow? Dang it!

 

[absoluthamm]

I'd be happy to let them keep my money if they would just let me use it to play on their new site!

Let me guess, like $5 you had on there? I would never play on Tilt again if I didn't get my money back, I don't give a shit how the software is.

If they belong to new people, will they allow us again do you think? well they would have to pay up big time

You post doesn't make any sense.

 

[PurgatoryD]

Let me guess, like $5 you had on there?

I had about $75 in freeroll winnings. It took a long time to build that up from nothing.

But seriously, if the site were to come back to life, I'd rather leave the money there and play rather than cash out and try to figure out some way to get funds deposited. This online prohibition stuff here in the US is really, really lame.

For those who have serious money on there, I completely understand their desire to cash out. And I do hope they are successful.

 

[cheaptrix]

dmorris I agree with you. my main point was that the poster above was making a strong statement about the legality of their action that has yet to be clearly decided yet. I hope it is determined that the seizures were wrong and all of the money can be returned but stating at this time that they were "clearly illegal" is wrong imo.

sry, forgot to add imo as i did in the post before that one.

 

[okeedokalee]

This is on http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...mployees-answer-questions-1116371/index3.html from a former employee

Quote:
Originally Posted by beepokerking
What do you think the chances are of the Tapie deal going through?

If this deal falls through do you think it is certain bankruptancy for FTP?

"IMO, the deal will not go through. If it doesn't I can't see the company lasting past January."

The " former employee" answers other questions as well, it is enlightening if genuine.

 

[OzExorcist]

FWIW, that former employee readily admits he doesn't have much more information than the rest of us so it really is just his opinion...

 

[DennisC98]

Full Tilt Fires 180 Employees...

A full tilt poker subsidiary with offices in Dublin, ireland, laid off 180 employees last week, pounding yet another nail in the coffin of the shuttered poker site.

 

[Debi]

I am surprised that was not done already. What have the employees been doing with no site to run?

 

[WVHillbilly]

"Tidying" up the books would be my guess. Well that and turning off the rigging lest any nosey auditors get in there and start mucking around.

 

[F4STFORW4RD]

I thought that the majority of their staff in Dublin were computer programmers.

 

[dj11]

I thought that the majority of their staff in Dublin were computer programmers.

I got the impression somewhere that the programming is done in California. By a firm not called FT.

 

[F4STFORW4RD]

I got the impression somewhere that the programming is done in California. By a firm not called FT.

It was in California originally:

http://www.gamma-gaming.com/profile/Pocket-Kings-Jobs

 

[alaskabill]

According to the ex employee (confirmed by Noah from subject poker) they literally were doing nothing. The reason they were kept on I guess is that if they had gotten the green light to reopen from AGCC they could not have reopened without the staff so it would have further delayed a reopen.

Literally, they went to work every day and read 2+2 for updates and did personal stuff like take online courses. Good work if you can get it and according to him they were well payed.

 

[Samango]

"Tidying" up the books would be my guess. Well that and turning off the rigging lest any nosey auditors get in there and start mucking around.

lmao

 

[OzExorcist]

I thought that the majority of their staff in Dublin were computer programmers.

Pretty much everything was in Dublin - management, security, programming, customer service, marketing, admin, etc.

FWIW, a consistent story from the employees that were made redundant is that their redundancy payouts came from the Irish government (not what tiny amount remains of player funds) and that they've been told they could be re-hired if the company gets back on its feet.

 

[beardyian]

FWIW, a consistent story from the employees that were made redundant is that their redundancy payouts came from the Irish government (not what tiny amount remains of player funds) and that they've been told they could be re-hired if the company gets back on its feet.

But the government is broke as well

 

[tenbob]

Pretty much everything was in Dublin - management, security, programming, customer service, marketing, admin, etc.

FWIW, a consistent story from the employees that were made redundant is that their redundancy payouts came from the Irish government (not what tiny amount remains of player funds) and that they've been told they could be re-hired if the company gets back on its feet.

The goverment pays 2/3rds of the redundancy, if there is no other company funds available. There is obv funds available from somewhere, because these people have been getting paid for months.

 

[OzExorcist]

Good point - I'm just quoting what the ex-employees have been saying on that other forum.

 

[alaskabill]

FWIW the ex employee has been shut down. He requested the thread to be deleted after he was threatened with legal action by FTP. The funny thing is that he was by and large positive about the company. Until Black Friday he loved his job. He spoke well of his colleagues and, given the circumstances, was not as harsh about Lederer and the gang as he could have been.

However, apparently PK employees sign a NDA and he was obviously violating it.

Oh well, it was interesting while it lasted.

 

[OzExorcist]

Ah - I thought it looked like it had gone missing... there really wasn't anything earth-shattering in it but there were a few interesting tidbits and like you said, it was by and large positive, which I found a little surprising.

 

[coolnout]

I was hoping we'd get paid by Christmas. ONE TIME.