Are 5-10% of players really winners or is it a myth?

[fundiver199]

I made a Day2 in a micro WCOOP on Sunday. In the final 25 players, less than 20% were losing players...

Sounds pretty normal to me. And the reason is, that in such a large field MTT the bad players typically run out of luck, before they reach the final 25. Which just goes to show, that despite the enormous variance skills do actually matter in MTTs. Its also worth mentioning, that Radia Nasraddine, who made the final table in EPT Monte Carlo main event earlier this year just did the same in EPT Barcelona. Which is quite an achievement, since these are 2.000 player events.

I'm not sure why you suggest the rooms are 'illegal'?

This statement is nonsense, since plenty on countries now have laws in place to regulate online gambling. And in those, who dont, its a grey zone, because sites operate from countries, where their activities are legal. The only thing, that can reasonably be called illegal, are poker clubs run on play money software, where monetary transfers are handled by agents like this bluff shove thing and similar entities. This is similar to live home games or underground poker clubs, which are also illegal in most countries.

Do you also eat at McDonalds every single day but then go and complain about how much they are charging you for a burger that isn't even healthy for you to eat? But then you go there and eat another burger right after complaining about it and then go there again the next day and the next? There are alternatives. McDonalds doesn't force you to go there.

You forgot the part about making unfounded accusations in forums or on social media, that the burgers at McDonalds contain meat from cats and dogs rather than cows

 

[sandy358]

Who can pinpoint it and can track every player.maybe there are no winning players at all and in the long run we are all losers playing poker just paying 10% fees to online bosses and casino owners Those big famous people with their millions in poker winnings are not telling us the whole truth who may know how much everyone is losing in illegal gambling casinos

poker existential crisis

 

[antonis32123]

I believe you already know the answer to your question ....

 

[luckyfish98]

I believe you already know the answer to your question ....

but I would like to hear your answer as well

 

[Pokerpoet2]

It's hard to put a correct figure on how many are profitable players, but from my own experience I would believe it is a small amount, Too many believe it is a Life of Luxury Hotels and Foreign Travel but from a Friend I have known for years, told me once, he wouldn't play if it wasn't for the rental properties he owns. Sure he has won some big money games, but he put those winnings into Property and started renting them out, and it is those that make him a living, Not Poker!
Poker only kicked off his business, but now it's his business that allows him to play, Many Professionals have other businesses that they make money from, How many big names in Poker have written books? Or opened Poker Schools On-line? Some are sleeping partners in other businesses like Pubs, Bars and Restaurants, They pay Managers to run them, but the idea is they make a living from other sources, not Poker.
Poker is a Game, and Games are meant to to be Fun! Lose that and there is no point in playing!

 

[Fushicho]

10% seems reasonable. 50% is technically possible since half the people could be losing to the other half. Actually if all the losers are really big spenders then 10% could be losing and making 90% profitable. So 10% profitable is easily possible.

 

[Amblo]

I think this rate is very close to the tournament payout structure, when it comes to tournaments it is obvious, those who reach the ITM the most times are the winners, the winners change but the space of victory remains the same...😁
if tournaments paid 100% of the players, what would be the winning rate?😏

 

[gustavofuentes2]

Well, I guess it's up to the person who is winning or losing if he or she wishes to keep doing it. By the way that you wrote your question, it seems to me that your bitter for some reason with gambling on-line or just gambling in general. I got a suggestion that might help. Don't Gamble!!!
And please stop making negative statements about people who enjoy doing it just to try and make them feel that they are doing something bad. We might not be up to your righteous standards but we enjoy or lives just the way it is. Please go and preach your gospel to people how will not be offended by it!!!

 

[Amblo]

Who can pinpoint it and can track every player.maybe there are no winning players at all and in the long run we are all losers playing poker just paying 10% fees to online bosses and casino owners Those big famous people with their millions in poker winnings are not telling us the whole truth who may know how much everyone is losing in illegal gambling casinos

Do not look for the truth in the things of the world, look for the truth within yourself.

 

[kdmeteor]

In my experience, whenever there's a widely cited number like the 5-10% one here, pretty often it has little basis in fact. So I wouldn't be surprised if the real number were different. Maybe it's <5%. Maybe it's >10%. Or maybe it just happens to be between 5 and 10% even though the person who came up with the number had no way of knowing that. Also depends on the context, of course.

But if your real question is whether the number is above 0% (i.e., there are any winning players), then the answer is an unequivocal yes.

 

[NSX_Amfe2nat]

I think 15% close to the truth

 

[Dimidrol2]

I think that 10% of the players play at least 0, and the rest lose not because they play poorly, but because they have high expectations. Poker loves the patient!

 

[dompoker]

I don't think it's such a low percentage, I think it should be higher.

 

[MishkaZL]

Who can pinpoint it and can track every player.maybe there are no winning players at all and in the long run we are all losers playing poker just paying 10% fees to online bosses and casino owners Those big famous people with their millions in poker winnings are not telling us the whole truth who may know how much everyone is losing in illegal gambling casinos

I don't know how things are going for others, but poker has been bringing me a monthly income for 4-5 years in a row. Sometimes it's 100 per month, sometimes 20. On average, I definitely have from $25 to $50 a month, if you look at my statistics for the last years.

 

[oriole]

I’m not sure, but I’d love to see the stats. A 10% win rate seems reasonable to me, but I do wonder what the numbers would look like without the rake involved

 

[RALF_AK]

Who can pinpoint it and can track every player.maybe there are no winning players at all and in the long run we are all losers playing poker just paying 10% fees to online bosses and casino owners Those big famous people with their millions in poker winnings are not telling us the whole truth who may know how much everyone is losing in illegal gambling casinos

We cannot compare casino games with poker, as the first only luck defines the winner, and the house will always have a better chance of winning, while the second, luck in the long term will have no importance in the result... just the technique and skills will be relevant.

 

[puzzlefish]

We cannot compare casino games with poker, as the first only luck defines the winner, and the house will always have a better chance of winning, while the second, luck in the long term will have no importance in the result... just the technique and skills will be relevant.

This is, of course, an illusion or mirage that poker players like to chase. With poker, the house is always winning through rake, taking a cut of the action. Also, luck absolutely does have importance, always. Yes, luck is more important in the short run, but if you look at simulations with models of variance in poker, luck is still going to determine where a particular player ends up in that envelope of variance after a year, two years, ten years, etc. Game selection, more than anything, is what's going to have the most impact on a player's experience.

 

[RALF_AK]

This is, of course, an illusion or mirage that poker players like to chase. With poker, the house is always winning through rake, taking a cut of the action. Also, luck absolutely does have importance, always. Yes, luck is more important in the short run, but if you look at simulations with models of variance in poker, luck is still going to determine where a particular player ends up in that envelope of variance after a year, two years, ten years, etc. Game selection, more than anything, is what's going to have the most impact on a player's experience.

I agree, especially if the comparison is in cash games... I believe that in relation to MTTs, long-term luck will not be very relevant... thanks for the opinion...

 

[Veralt]

I think you mixed up a lot of topics here.
One thing is illegal casinos, where who knows what happens, and another are regulated casinos.
I can’t speak for other poker players, but you can definitely track your progress and see how to improve it, or even determine if poker is profitable for you.
From the moment there are professional players, I assume that for more than one person, this is a viable way to make a living.

 

[Igor G]

I think that professionals earn steadily. There are probably no more than 5% of professionals among online players. Therefore, I think we can assume that at least 5% are players who receive income from the game.