Live Grind: How to Fall Asleep at the Table (Without Getting Caught)

xdeucesx

xdeucesx

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jam ainec. No room to b/f and c/c is even worse lol.

WP scourrge
 
Matt Vaughan

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jam ainec. No room to b/f and c/c is even worse lol.

WP scourrge

<3


$0.25/$0.50 Zoom No Limit Holdem
pokerstars
6 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
scourrge (UTG) ($197.80) 396bb
UTG+1 ($17.14) 34bb
CO ($47.75) 96bb
BTN ($55.91) 112bb
SB ($48.25) 97bb
BB ($30.54) 61bb

Pre-Flop: ($0.75, 6 players) scourrge is UTG :qs4: :qc4:
scourrge raises to $1.50, UTG+1 calls $1.50, 1 fold, BTN calls $1.50, 2 folds

Flop: :6h4: :5c4: :3s4: ($5.25, 3 players)
scourrge bets $3.75, UTG+1 calls $3.75, BTN folds

Turn: :2d4: ($12.75, 2 players)
scourrge bets $12.75, UTG+1 goes all-in $11.89

River: :3c4: ($36.53, 2 players, 1 all-in)
 
Logan2

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Looks standard vs a 34bb

Not much 4x that he could have, 44 & A4s, random 45?, still we beat 77-JJ, if spike a set meh, don't see what could change (or that want), well played.
 
vinylspiros

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Not the best run out for our hand obviously but on the other hand there are a ton of hands that are going to call us such as lower PP and maybe a6 or a7 sometimes.

My question is: if you believe you are ahead, why is your turn sizing so big? Are you betting for value or as a bluff? Obviously your looking to get value so it feels like maybe turn sizing is too big. I wouldn't mind bet folding turn if he jams. Like if u were to bet 7-8 and he jammed, I would personally consider folding since I don't see anything worse than 2 pair calling it.


Overall I am not a fan of your sizing on the turn since it will make worse fold a lot of the time and at the same time it commits us.
 
vinylspiros

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Just noticed he's 34 bb short. If he was 100 by deep then my post above applies as to how I would play it and my thought process.
 
micromachine

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I like the QQ hand, not much point betting any smaller on the turn as he can't call anything then fold the river anyway. Nh
 
Matt Vaughan

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@vin: Yeah those are important considerations when deeper ofc. But at this stack depth it felt like I didn't have much choice in my line.

Thanks for input, everyone :) Parents in town so haven't been playing much at all (a few mobile hands to try to get this week's promo), and haven't been focused on hand review, but will try to post at least 1 hand every couple days until I'm playing more again.

Here's another:

$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Holdem
PokerStars
5 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($22.75) 46bb
CO ($93.47) 187bb
BTN ($79.99) 160bb
scourrge (SB) ($50.95) 102bb
BB ($79.24) 158bb

Pre-Flop: ($0.75, 5 players) scourrge is SB :kd4: :9d4:
2 folds, BTN calls $0.50, scourrge raises to $2, 1 fold, BTN calls $1.50

Flop: :qs4: :9s4: :7d4: ($4.50, 2 players)
scourrge checks, BTN bets $2.25, scourrge calls $2.25

Turn: :3d4: ($9, 2 players)
scourrge checks, BTN checks

River: :4h4: ($9, 2 players)
scourrge checks, BTN bets $4.50, scourrge calls $4.50
 
youregoodmate

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@vin: Yeah those are important considerations when deeper ofc. But at this stack depth it felt like I didn't have much choice in my line.

Thanks for input, everyone :) Parents in town so haven't been playing much at all (a few mobile hands to try to get this week's promo), and haven't been focused on hand review, but will try to post at least 1 hand every couple days until I'm playing more again.

Here's another:

$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Holdem
PokerStars
5 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($22.75) 46bb
CO ($93.47) 187bb
BTN ($79.99) 160bb
scourrge (SB) ($50.95) 102bb
BB ($79.24) 158bb

Pre-Flop: ($0.75, 5 players) scourrge is SB :kd4: :9d4:
2 folds, BTN calls $0.50, scourrge raises to $2, 1 fold, BTN calls $1.50

Flop: :qs4: :9s4: :7d4: ($4.50, 2 players)
scourrge checks, BTN bets $2.25, scourrge calls $2.25

Turn: :3d4: ($9, 2 players)
scourrge checks, BTN checks

River: :4h4: ($9, 2 players)
scourrge checks, BTN bets $4.50, scourrge calls $4.50

If we are iso'ing because he's a fish then for sure we should be betting the flop there. He will call with worse very often. As played I call.
 
vinylspiros

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k9 hand looks totally solid to me. wp.
 
777BODYA777

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eep your head up, man. Take a break and clear your head if you need it. At 1/2, tighten up and believe everyone. Their actions are rarely deceiving.

As far as your bankroll, obviously it's not an optimal situation, but you still have 7 buy ins. I was down to 4 at one point. You can build it up. Don't even think about it during your next session. You're not going to lose it all during that session.
 
BenjiHustle

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eep your head up, man. Take a break and clear your head if you need it. At 1/2, tighten up and believe everyone. Their actions are rarely deceiving.

As far as your bankroll, obviously it's not an optimal situation, but you still have 7 buy ins. I was down to 4 at one point. You can build it up. Don't even think about it during your next session. You're not going to lose it all during that session.
Welcome to page 28.
 
Logan2

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K9 Looks good.
YGM has a point , although cb 2nd pair + backdoor flush will be ok-ish vs limping pre villain, looks kind of thin and our line looks better as not only get value from worst 9x/FD but also induce bluffs.

 
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youregoodmate

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K9 Looks good.
YGM has a point , 2nd pair + backdoor flush will make ok-ish to cb vs limping pre villain, although looks kind of thin and our line looks better as not only get value from worst 9x/FD but also induce bluffs.


It's not thin against a fish like that. There are numerous straight draws as well that will call. I'm at least double barrelling this for value.

Also our line 'looks better' when we know how the board will play out and there are no more scare cards for us.
 
Logan2

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Agree that if we cb we can 2nd barrel as we can peek more equity on turn, although at that point (turn) not sure will be for value or making our hand a semi-bluff, also even if is a fish he can have AQ/KQ/JQ/QT (rest of Qx) /A9/97/sets/TT/JJ on flop, and on turn we going to pick up equity with a diamond which happen less than 20% but also we are not fist pumping if turn is T/J/A or spade, or if diamond is T/J/A, they are scare cards as are on villain range and beat our 2nd pair, so our outs not even clean, and are outs to get a draw that still need to hit on river if we are already behind, and our hand still is fragile on river vs same cards if no diamond (T/J/A/spade), yes our king help a little too but also could complete a s8 if have TJ, so when maybe we could get value on flop vs draws still think cb is thin as there is also a ton of hands that beat us.


 
youregoodmate

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There aren't that many hands that beat us but there are tons of draws that will call. When we ISO a player like this we can't not go for value just cos we didn't hit TP. He will call with worse often so I would rather get the value now than two streets down the line when a bet or call could be far thinner value.

If we know the turn and river cards in advance (just imagine), then yes the way the hand was played could be a good way to extract value. Sadly we don't know that and we don't like a huge amount of turn cards, so giving a fish a free card if he wants one is a mistake.

He has limp called from the button, we can assume he's quite the drooler, I think you're over estimating his potential to fold gut shots and smaller pairs.

As always just my opinion.
 
Logan2

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I mostly agree, the issue here is that we have no stats on villain and is fullstacked, yes limping villains are bad, but how bad without stats i dont know, i know people in this forum that limp pre and still will not call that wide on flop (which i guess then still ok to fire because higher FE).

umm, actually you almost convince me is a better line, Matt play on bovada = lame fishys most likely, and aggresive lines will help that give a extra way to win the hand as could get a fold at some point vs passive line that need to be good on river to can win.

Some one else agree?.
 
Matt Vaughan

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There aren't that many hands that beat us but there are tons of draws that will call. When we ISO a player like this we can't not go for value just cos we didn't hit TP. He will call with worse often so I would rather get the value now than two streets down the line when a bet or call could be far thinner value.

If we know the turn and river cards in advance (just imagine), then yes the way the hand was played could be a good way to extract value. Sadly we don't know that and we don't like a huge amount of turn cards, so giving a fish a free card if he wants one is a mistake.

He has limp called from the button, we can assume he's quite the drooler, I think you're over estimating his potential to fold gut shots and smaller pairs.

As always just my opinion.

This is probably the key point to the hand that I didn't think all the way through. But I still don't think that a cbet, barrel line for value is definitively better than x/c flop and eval turns and rivers. Like, yeah what YGM is saying makes tons of sense. But also keep in mind how disgusting this board is going to get for us (OOP) a lot of the time.

Sorry that I don't have stats and don't remember off the top of my head. I want to say he was on the loose-passive fishy side, but not a big sample.

It's really tough to pick optimal lines without better reads :(
 
zEric7x

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It's really tough to pick optimal lines without better reads :(

"Um, excuse me player 5 but I need to know what kind of fish you are. Its for the reads and notes you see. Thanks" :D
 
Matt Vaughan

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Blah blah blah poker is dumb blah blah. :)

Haven't bumped here in a while cause not been much to say really. Been swinging hard playing 25nl/50nl/25plo, just trying to mix it up enough to stay interested but not so much that I forget how to play hold'em.

Haven't been profiting really but haven't been losing either, just swinging around breakeven these past few weeks. Nice change of pace from having like only 2 winning sessions per month. :D And I'm enjoying PLO a lot. I purchased the omaha version of the bovada hand converter I have, and am probably going to get the small stakes omaha add-on for PT4. It only goes up to 50plo, but if I get serious enough with PLO to where I'm playing 100plo+, it wouldn't be too much of a pain to shell out another $50 to upgrade to the full omaha PT4 version.

Not tons been going on hands-wise, and my converter isn't working yet, but once it is I'll try to post a mix of PLO and NL hands, though I don't think many people itt play much PLO if any. I've actually run relatively bad at PLO - I think. But it's still a lot easier to handle because I can look up the numbers and some of the time I had less equity than I expected, etc. Plus the swings are more expected kind of?

But one truism for this post: Getting 3-outered hurts a lot more in PLO than it does in Hold'em. :D
 
Logan2

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It looks you are serious then on PLO as buying hand converter and planning PT4 omaha addon he.

Guessing the hand review is going to be the harder part as not much PLO grinders on the forum that could help you.

I've actually run relatively bad at PLO - I think
This make me lol, stop running bad on everything yo:)
---

On other things still not sure why can't you win on 25/50, i mean sure bad runs but 4 months losing and BE now sounds like too much, did you try cuting number of tables

Are you sure is not better move down to 10/25?, your edge should be so big on 10 than even running bad maybe still win no?

Do you have rakeback or good bonus system on bovada to be like a BE rakeback pro to want to stay there if losing for so long?

Do you beat 50nl for more than 5 months before to have the idea this is just bad run?

Not tryng to be an ass here just genuinely intrigued. (and thread slow so rolling on).


 
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J

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So he called off ~30% of his chips pre with 76. Talk friendly and politely to him, and ask when he plans on coming back.

he he, and then he donkshoves, and better than that he got a seven but not any seven but a one without the spade, i ve seen a lot of this guys playing micros, i didnt know they play live poker too and indeed they are always welcome
 
youregoodmate

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he he, and then he donkshoves, and better than that he got a seven but not any seven but a one without the spade, i ve seen a lot of this guys playing micros, i didnt know they play live poker too and indeed they are always welcome

Glad you could join us at page 28
 
Matt Vaughan

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It looks you are serious then on PLO as buying hand converter and planning PT4 omaha addon he.

Guessing the hand review is going to be the harder part as not much PLO grinders on the forum that could help you.

This make me lol, stop running bad on everything yo:)
---

On other things still not sure why can't you win on 25/50, i mean sure bad runs but 4 months losing and BE now sounds like too much, did you try cuting number of tables

Are you sure is not better move down to 10/25?, your edge should be so big on 10 than even running bad maybe still win no?

Do you have rakeback or good bonus system on bovada to be like a BE rakeback pro to want to stay there if losing for so long?

Do you beat 50nl for more than 5 months before to have the idea this is just bad run?

Not tryng to be an ass here just genuinely intrigued. (and thread slow so rolling on).



4-table maximum, remember? :) The only time I ever feel overwhelmed is when 4-tabling zone. And that's not because of the hands/hour, it's more because there's no time banks. AND the timer is shorter for zone tables. So if you ever get into tricky spots, it's pretty rough.

I don't think you're being an ass. I think asking whether I'm actually beating the game is pretty reasonable, given I've been asking that of myself for months now.

But realistically you can just look at the HH's I post to get an idea of how bad people are really playing up to 50nl - at least at regular tables, but really both regular and zone. When I was on Bovada before putting my focus more on live, I effectively skipped 50nl. I was playing 50nl and doing alright but then won a tournament for like 1k, so I was shotting 100nl. Then won live tourney etc so more of my roll was offline, so when online downer hit I didn't move down that aggressively. I probably only had about 20k hands at 50nl total, and was roughly breakeven iirc.

There's no rakeback on Bovada. I effectively get 1% rb through the player points system.

And fwiw I haven't updated at all because I was on a work trip until about an hour ago. :)

I think most people judge downswings by their own personal experience. Which is kind of absurd, but it's the reality. So I don't know how to explain to you that I've been running bad this long, but I have. Keep in mind it's not like I've put in loads of volume, so that's a factor. But also even for when I was grinding, tons of that was live, ie 10% the volume or so. Pros have losing stretches like this over much larger samples. Do you have to run worse than the average grinder to have a run this bad? Yeah, probably.

Glad you could join us at page 28

Deja vu all over again.
 
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