Live Grind: How to Fall Asleep at the Table (Without Getting Caught)

[Matt Vaughan]

Oh, and as a quick brag... It was nice to go from this stack:

To this one:

 

[stately7]

Hello scourrge -

QQ – I wasn’t sure if it was better to flat pf or to raise and isolate the ‘fish’ on the button? WP from there. (Realise this was the “history” hand too)

AA – so effective stacks about $425? Hmmm, I think we take 2 pair hands and sets out of villain’s range as we’d hear from them on this wet board sooner.

This villain likes to gamble, so that heavily suggests his flop and turn calls are straight draws (9x hands, often with one pair as well) and flush draws (also maybe with a pair). I’m not sure how he’d treat TP / good kicker, he may just call down, though I’d expect him to check that behind OTR.

Which means imho his river bet is equal amount of busted flush draws and straight draws that got there (40% each?), with a little bit of badly played TP or something else weird (10% chance).

Your turn line is OK I think for pot control & keeping him in the hand, maybe $145 ends it there but lowers your value. River is offering us 2.4 to 1 so we need about 29% equity. I make a reluctant fold here.

EDIT - not sitting on the fence here (much), but my crude calculations above make this look like more of a call than a fold (could i be basing this on your very nice chip porn photos, lol?). Wow, or maybe i'm even learning something on CC ;-)

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Thanks for input stately. On QQ, he's a fish, so it's unlikely his 3b range is particularly wide. I'm not even sure I'm ahead preflop really. I figured it was pretty likely I was set-mining.

For AA, I agree with your analysis for the most part. We hold the A of spades, which leans it even more toward a fold imo. I think it's tough without a stronger read, and since we can give him basically every suited pair + OESD on flop and turn, he just has too many straight combos for me to call.

 

[stately7]

No worries mate. Of course on QQ pre flop, makes sense. Re AA, with the As in your hand, I see he has less of a busted flush then, and a whole lot of straight combos for sure. Glad my first instinct on the fold is close to the mark, if not my hesitant re-evaluation on our equity.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

So, I'm officially done with all my school work. I went in tonight to grind some 2/5, but the wait seemed to be taking a while. I ended up late-regging the $200 weekly bounty tournament. I folded for 3 orbits straight, then finally played a hand:

Preflop:
Folded to me in the CO, blinds are 50a/200/400, and I have a 7,200ish stack. I make it 1,050. (The fold equity in live tournaments is somewhat astounding, so it seemed okay to raise to this size.) The BTN and SB fold, and the BB stares me down, before calling.

Flop: (2,800) (2 players)
I flop a gutshot, which isn't too bad given how bad my equity likely is vs. villain's calling range preflop. Villain checks to me, and I bet 1,500. Villain stares me down again, and eventually calls.

Turn: (5,800) (2 players)
I turn a flush draw to go with my gutshot. Pretty much the best card in the deck, although the Ac might have been better as it would perhaps give my barrel more respect. With only 4,600 left in my stack, I feel I maximize my FE by going all in. I shove, and villain thinks for a few moments and calls.

I roll my hand, and after staring at it for about 5 seconds (we're both obligated to show before the cards come out in a tournament), the villain rolls K9o. I'm flabbergasted - so is the rest of the table. No pair, no draw, no nothing.

Villain fist-pumps as the board bricks out, and I'm knocked out of the tournament after just 3 short orbits. Villain also exclaimed something somewhat unsportsmanlike, and I got a mortified look of sympathy from the dealer.


The hand was particularly frustrating because villain seemed like he thought he was making a soul read or something, and in past experiences in these spots, villains have picked up nothing by reading me. On top of this, I folded 3 orbits straight, so villain had no reason to think I was out of line - more likely he was just terribad and wanted to be a hero. Or he thought he had a flush draw maybe. Who knows.

Anyway, I was out of the tournament, so I went to hang out with Sand for a while. He was playing 2/5, so I sat behind for a while and whined a bit about how only I could find the variety of bad player who is SO bad that he doesn't notice me fold for 3 orbits, and then decides on a whim to call down the turn with K-high, no draw when I only have 15 outs (lol).

After chatting with Sand for a while, I put my name on the 2/5 list. They started up a new must-move game pretty quickly. The game was very obviously soft. There were a few regs, but most of them weren't aggro regs, and I was probably actually the most active non-limping player at the table. I got into a few somewhat annoying spots early. I 3bet TT out of the blinds vs. a shorty, and he flatted, leaving an SPR of 0.5ish. A Q32r flop greeted us and I stuck the money in. He called it off with QJs and held. Then I isolated a reg's limp and went HU with QTdd to a 973 two tone board (I had a backdoor flush draw). The flop checked through, and the turn was a pretty beautiful Kd, giving me a gutshot and a flush draw. I bet the turn when villain checked to me, and he quickly called. The river brought an offsuit A, which I felt was pretty good for my range. When villain checked to me again I bet about 2/3 pot, and he x/r some gigantic amount and I snap-folded in disgust. Nothing was going right. Then I got into one more interesting spot:

Preflop:
EP fish limps in, and HJ loose-passive reg over-limps. I raise on the button to $25, and both call.

Flop: ($75) (3 players)
Checks to me and I bet $55. The fish in EP calls, and the HJ makes it $225 to go. I only had about $350 to start on the flop. Hero??

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Thread needs love

Short update here: I'm officially done with all classes, projects, and finals of my undergrad career, and am looking to get in some serious hours at 2/5 if I can. My second session at weekday 2/5 has suggested that it may actually be softer on average than weekend 2/5. Not as much potential for BIG fish, but most of the good regs don't play weeknights at 2/5 it seems. I wish I had known this sooner, since I'm only in Cleveland for another week or so... But oh well.

I'm in the midst of senior week, and my parents are getting here on Sunday, and I'll be doing a lot of running around: visiting grandparents, packing stuff up to ship back home, etc etc. So I likely won't get the volume in I want, but I'm still making an effort at it. I've played like 3 hours of 1/2 and about 17 hours of 2/5 so far this month, since I'm basically only sitting 1/2 when waiting for a 2/5 seat now. My BR is sitting at a pretty comfortable all-time peak of $9,900, after a +$995 session at 2/5 last night. Even though I wasn't thinking about it this way until now, I'm within flirting range of adding another decimal place to my BR. Something I haven't been able to say in QUITE some time

I actually got into a number of interesting spots at 2/5 last night, given it was only a 5-hour session or so. It wasn't so much that I was running hot (I didn't voluntarily put money into the pot for my first 3 orbits), as much as the fact that a lot of the players were fairly unknown to me. At 1/2 I know more of what this means in terms of "play of the population" tendencies, but it's trickier at 2/5. There were also a few players there who I have only ever seen at 1/2 before, so in terms of dynamics, I have a few thoughts on that.

Hoping to get a few new opinions on that A8 hand (already talked to Sand about it), but then I'll be shipping some new hands in - hopefully tonight. Until then, play well and run better.

 

[stately7]

Ah8h – with this hand, I so so want to re-shove our remaining $295 in response to his $225… but. The but is what does this loose passive reg c/r with on this flop? We only beat J8 here, and if he’s passive enough, his range includes AJ, 88 and JJ. I guess for me it’s a fold, a damn reluctant one. Again. Tell me I'm wrong, i'd actually love to hear it

 

[stately7]

Oh and congrats on the ever improving shape of your BR once again.

 

[micromachine]

A8 - I think we have to discount AA and JJ from his range due to the lack of PF raise. That leaves us with AJ (6 combos) and 88 (1 combo) that beats us, and we have a blocker for both of those. As for a range we beat I have no idea whether this guy would stack of will top pair or play aggressively with a draw so it's kind of hard but I think AK (8 combos) and J8 (6 combos) if we are being conservative or AK, J8 and T9 if we are being less conservative. Even being conservative we beat more combos that beat us, it's close but I think it would be fine to GII here.

Congrats on the nice BR growth, impressive! GL @ 2/5.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Thanks a lot for input guys. I can't say how much I appreciate it. Even when I agree straight up, it's helpful to have that reinforcement. And when I disagree, it's super helpful to have to think from a different perspective, or consider more information. So thank you again.

So, this is just my thought process, and keep in mind that it's slightly colored by what I was feeling in the moment (not the results, mind you). In the moment, when he raised, I instantly thought I was behind. Right off the bat, I think AK is never ever playing this way. It's POSSIBLE he over-limp/over-calls it pre (lol), but he's not x/r with it. He could lead, and he could x/c, but he's not going to x/r imo.

Also, I don't think villain has any J8o in his range, which suddenly means that with J8s, he can only have 1 combo (see the suits of the cards shown). And I doubt this passive villain is ever x/r T9s here (T9o isn't in his range) without a FD to go with it. Which means we only beat J8s (1 combo), and we lose to AJ (6 combos) and 88 (1 combo). I agree that we can entirely exclude AA and JJ here fwiw, but beating only 1 combos out of 8 combos, we have to fold imo. When I jammed I thought I was making a mistake, which made it all the more frustrating.

Anyway, result was that I jammed, EP limper folded, and HJ snap-called. Turn blank, river K, and villain actually seemed physically pained - he clearly thought I had AK. I thought this was funny in a sick kind of way, b/c tbh, with AK (no blockers to 88, and villain can have A8 more easily, which now beats us instead of chopping), this becomes a snap-fold. Like even in the state I was in - I was getting really attached to the idea of winning a big pot off the fish there - I wasn't gii with TPTK there. Anyway he showed AJ, which was of course good. I left rather than rebuying. I was tilted and already down $600, so it seemed a good point to stop.


Thanks again for support guys. Gonna leave this post off here and put my latest 2/5 hands in my next post, which I'll start writing in a minute.

 

[stately7]

Thanks a lot for input guys. I can't say how much I appreciate it. Even when I agree straight up, it's helpful to have that reinforcement. And when I disagree, it's super helpful to have to think from a different perspective, or consider more information. So thank you again.

Hey man - most welcome. I enjoy offering thoughts simply because it's a thrill and challenge for me to test my developing thinking with great players and analysts on this forum. Happy being wrong (still learning), happy enough being close to the mark too. Keep up the great work!

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Alright, so this is going to be less of a story post and more of a "lots of hands kind of post." I welcome input on any and all of these! The first 2 hands are from a session I played maybe a week ago. All the rest are from two nights ago or last night grinding it out at weeknight 2/5. I'm going to post results in spoilers, and only ask that you type out your thoughts before viewing. Well, let's get into it!!

Hand 1
I felt this was fairly close at the time, and I was unsure whether I could realistically fold the turn after I called the flop, given that I turn one of the best cards in the deck (blocks sets/turned quads).

Preflop:
I make a standard open to $20 in MP. A player who is pretty loose preflop calls in the SB, and we go HU.

Flop: ($45) (2 players)
SB checks, I bet $45, and he makes it $145 with ~$250 behind. I call.

Turn: ($335) (2 players)
Villain jams for ~$250 and I call.

Spoiler

Villain shows QJ and he can't spike a 2-outer. MHIG.

Hand 2
Not pleased with how I played this one. Pre is a fold. The rest of my thoughts will come after I give the hand details.

Preflop:
In the SB. A loose MP player opens to $15, the CO calls, I call, the BB calls. 4-way to flop.

Flop: ($60) (4 players)
Checks to the MP opener, who bets $30. CO folds, I call. I think this is very close but probably okay getting 3:1. BB x/min-r to $60. I expect the BB has two pair or a set a lot of the time. The CO tanks for a long time and eventually calls. I'm now getting 6:1, but based on CO's tank, I think I can almost always put him on a better diamond draw. But I call in-game.

Turn: ($240) (3 players)
I check, and the BB fairly quickly checks. The CO bets $175, I call, and BB tanks forever and folds. It seems blatantly obvious to me that he has a set and was trying to decide whether to draw to a boat. My call is just awful, as CO always has me drawing dead.

River: ($590) (2 players)
BB (folded turn) LEAPS back from the table. Very clearly folded a set. I check, CO bets $500, I fold. Villain literally always has a better flush here.


Hand 3
I have folded 2 orbits straight preflop in this game.

Preflop:
Folds to the HJ, who limps in for $5, and I iso raise to $25. BB cold-calls, and the limper folds. HU to the flop.

Flop: ($50) (2 players)
BB checks, and I bet $30. He calls without too much thought. I suspect he has a PP a lot of the time and will fold the turn to pressure on a lot of big cards.

Turn: ($110) (2 players)
He checks, I bet $65, and BB tanks for a while before calling. I'm unsure at this point if I will be able to bet him off a PP on the river.

River: ($240) ( players)
BB goes all in for about $175, and I snap-fold.

Spoiler

Villain claims he flopped trips: "I knew you wouldn't put me on a 4." Good for you, champ.

Hand 4
About an orbit after Hand 3.

Preflop:
Two limps to me, I overlimp in HJ, CO overlimps, BTN makes it $25. Folds to me and I call. CO also calls, 3-way to the flop.

Flop: ($85) (3 players)
Checks to BTN (same player from Hand 3), who bets $35. I suspect this is pretty weak sizing either from overs or a not particularly great overpair. I make it $85 to go, and CO x/3b's to $250. BTN goes all in for not much more, and I fold.

Spoiler

CO has A8ss and his hand is good. BTN doesn't show.

Hand 5
A couple hands after Hand 4.

Preflop:
Two limps to me again, and I overlimp MP. Blinds complete/check and we go 5-way to the flop.

Flop: ($25) (5 players)
SB checks, and BB bets $10. Folds to me, and I make it $30, since it looks like a blocking bet with a drawing hand. SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: ($85) (3 players)
Checks around. No point in betting when literally everything gets there.

River: ($85) (3 players)
SB leads without even looking at how many chips he's grabbing. The bet is $50. BB folds, I fold.

Spoiler

SB shows K3hh.

The rest of the hands are played as a 2/5 with a $10 bring-in. Instead of each player being able to fold, limp for $5, or raise to $10 or more, the limp option is eliminated, and any player can come in by making the bet $10. Any raise size greater than that is still allowed. Postflop remains the same.


Hand 6

Preflop:
UTG+2, a decent reg, opens to $20. I call in the SB, and the BB, a decentish 1/2 reg calls.

Flop: ($60) (3 players)
Checks to UTG+2, who continues for $35. I interpret this as weak sizing even though it's not much under 2/3 pot. I make a somewhat loose call. BB folds.

Turn: ($130) (2 players)
I check, and UTG+2 checks it back fairly quickly.

River: ($130) (2 players)
Pretty terrible card for me, as it absolutely smashes villain's flop air-cbetting range that checks back the turn. Both the turn and river together make it EXTREMELY likely that villain's hand is better than mine. Every broadway combo beats me. I decide to turn my hand into a bluff to get villain to fold 2nd or 3rd pair. I bet $60 and villain tanks for approximately 3 minutes before folding.



Hand 7

Preflop:
MP opens to $20, I make it $60 OTB. It is my first 3b of the night, but I've only been playing maybe 5-6 orbits with villain. Folds back to MP, who tanks for maybe 30 seconds and calls.

Flop: ($120) (2 players)
MP checks to me, and I bet $80. Villain tanks for a decent while, sizing me up, and x/r to $225. He has approximately $325 behind. I ask how much he has, he tells me, and I am pretty unsure in this spot, but I figure I pretty much have to gii. Most of the hands that he would raise and flat a 3b OOP with are PP's, probably 88+ or 99+ or so, and things like AQ/AK. I think he can definitely x/r a lot of his overpairs in this spot to protect against the equity I might have. I tank for a little while and go all in. Villain doesn't insta-call and I inwardly breathe a sigh of relief. No set. Villain eventually calls, the turn and river blank out and MHIG.


Hand 8
Only hand where the bring in actually matters.

Preflop:
3 "limps" in for $10, and I make it $45 on the BTN. (I should probably make it $55 or $60 here.) BB makes it $100 and it folds back around to me. $55 back to me, and we're about $2k deep. I think he has AA here an extremely high percentage of the time. It's POSSIBLE he has something like AKs and just has no clue what to do and therefore sizes weirdly. But I read it more as a "please call me" raise. I figure I can set-mine and probably make correct laydowns postflop. I flat and we go HU to the flop.

Flop: ($230) (2 players)
Villain pretty quickly bets $130. I still feel like villain mostly has AA here, but on the very off chance that he has JJ- or AK, I call so I can re-evaluate on the turn.

Turn: ($490) ( players)
Villain pretty quickly bets out $250. Here is where I get pretty confused. Reads on villain are that he's not a particularly strongly thinking player, but he's primarily betting with value hands. On one hand, the 5c is a scare card for his entire value 3b range, and I really don't think he's ever 3betting air preflop. Or at least not to that sizing. So his betting range could slow down, concerned about 6x. But on the other hand, any rudimentary hand-reading would suggest I don't have a 6 in my hand. But it still feels like most rec players get scared with AA here and check at least one street. Which makes me reconsider that he could have something like AKs with a flopped or turned flush draw.

But when it comes down to it, I have to expect a big bet coming on the river, and there are tons of bad river cards that could make decisions very difficult for me. I fold.

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

Matthew is awful, that is all

 

[Mr Sandbag]

Hand 1: I think this is pretty villain dependent. If he's capable of raising with TP or air, obviously a call. NH.

Hand 2: Fold pre. We are basically trying to flop a draw most of the time here, and it's kinda difficult to play postflop since most of the time we will just be calling bets OOP in hopes of hitting and holding up. If the game is super fishy/deep, I don't mind the call.

Hand 3: Well played. Lawl spoiler. That quote doesn't even make sense.

Hand 4: You know me, I always prefer a raise to a limp. As played, not sure I like the call preflop. I know there is dead money, but there is a good possibility you'll be HU OOP with 76s. Again, you'll be flopping draws most of the time you connect, and in this case, your range is pretty capped as compared to the 43s hand. It'll be hard to extract a ton of value even when you do smash the board.

Hand 5: Fold pre. I think our preflop strategies differ a bit haha. I just don't really see the point in limping a hand like K9s from MP. Raising it seems better than limping with it because we can maneuver the flop more.

Hand 6: Any particular reason why you think this bet is weak? I mean the flop is pretty dry, so he's not gonna bomb it or anything. I guess it's not bad to call though since I doubt villain is going to be betting the turn with air and will always be betting with Ax.

Hand 7: I really don't know. Can't be bad GII though since villain may be capable of c/r with draws or worse PP's. I'd be pretty nervous though haha. Even if we are ahead, villain probably has decent equity with any hand he calls with.

Hand 8: It seemed contradictory to call pre with intentions of set mining and then call a flop bet. Calling flop obviously isn't a mistake or anything, but if your read is strong, you can save some money. As played, gotta fold turn. And yeah, there's really no reason for him to believe you have any 6x hand at all.

 

[stately7]

HAND 1
KK – Of course on the flop I’m concerned about a set but let’s take a read. So he’s loose preflop. What about post? Will he do something like check raise TPTK? He may also do this with QQ – good for us. True, the 6 helps you on the turn, but I still don’t know if he has a set or is playing something like QQ, AJ or KJ this way. I feel we have to factor a flatted AA a few % points also simply because there was very little need for him to isolate PF given he was in the SB. He only risks the BB flatting so even that player’s tendencies must be taken into account to answer the AA question. I have folded more or less this exact spot in game before, but tbh most of the time I want to take a calculated risk and just GII on the turn as you did. I also want to consider what mental state this guy is in. If he’s been losing pots and seems frustrated etc, I’m beating him to middle. I just do not want to fold KK on too many flops.

Interesting hand, yeah I’ll read the spoilers after posting. Anyways…

HAND 2
43s – yeah agree with everything you are saying here. I guess 87s is your better min requirement here? I’ve been known to call here with 54s but that’s pretty awful.

HAND 3
Q10o – preflop I don’t mind it at all. Flop I cbet $35 (sometimes 40) but that’s negligible. Turn, explain to me how bluffing scare cards is supposed to work? I get the theory and you say he has a PP a lot of the time (ok that is fair), but if he’s drawing otf with two strong overs, doesn’t a K hit his range like a nail on the head? Or do unknowns just not flat bets on flops like this very often with two good broadway cards that haven’t hit yet? (Genuine question!)

What’s interesting with this hand is he tank calls the turn with something like 77-JJ (for argument’s sake) but by the river has enough of a read on you to shove because he’s determined your FOS (as bean would say) and have no K and no nothing. You’ve folded for two orbits, wtf really, how can he do this? Is it sizing? Perhaps 77-JJ folds the turn for $95. Gotta run, post more later.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Thanks for input guys. Really appreciate the in-depth thought processes!

Hand 1: So the problem is that this is DEFINITELY a spot that is more player dependent... I just didn't have much of a read except that he wasn't a reg (means a fair bit on weekends). The main thing that was coloring my decision on the flop was that I had a spot where I bet-folded AA on a very similar texture and was shown complete air. It seems people just make more moves on dry boards. In a different spot, someone chose to raise with just TP. These aren't examples that can be exactly correlated to this spot, but it also goes to show some of the differences from 1/2. So I just felt that he would have enough air alone to make up for 9 combos of sets. And if he ever has TP hands then that's just a bonus really. I think AA is virtually never in his range fwiw. People just don't trap that much with their big pairs in this game - maybe flat a 3b, but not just flat an open raise very often.

Hand 2: Cool, glad we're all on the same page

Hand 3: @stately: I think on such a dry board that misses most of both our ranges, we can get away with smaller most of the time. Most of his flop continuing range is going to be PP's. Some A high (in particular A high with gutshots). Some open-ended hands like 65s, maybe gutshots like 76s. But most of the time, recreational players aren't looking at a hand like K high on this flop and going "he doesn't have much here... I'm gonna float and take it away later!!" Most decent regs aren't even bothering with that against each other. (Although the really good ones are.) So the K really doesn't hit his range at all. He can have AK sometimes but that's basically the only Kx hand in his range that calls the flop imo. On the other hand, it hits my range pretty well, and now my value range (which just got bigger) beats his entire range.

He may literally never have air when he jams here. He does not "have a read on me," that's for sure. 65 gets there, and all random 64, 54, 43, A4 hands could jam as well. And if he DOES call the turn with JJ-77, AND somehow has this magical read (he doesn't), then why in the world would he jam? He could just x/c any bet. He's literally making the worst bet ever if he has 77-JJ here and thinks I have air. Even betting like $20 here and hoping I spazz out and raise would be better.


Will reply for the rest of the hands later.

 

[stately7]

Hand 1, KK – thanks for these thoughts, also realized a set (should) rarely raise on that dry flop, it’s just so safe to c/r turn instead. (Spoiler – yeah that’s perfect)

Hand 3, Q10 – cool, really helpful on the floating, will they / won’t they analysis. Yeah his jam is never air that’s for sure. (Spoiler – haha on the well done “champ”)

Post on others now.

 

[stately7]

Hand 4
76s – I like to over limp in these spots too (with the occasional raise), but tend to throw away $2 (well in 1/2 anyways) to the raise. But you can hit a flop hard, and if you flop a draw or even just a pair, he can make it obvious he’s fairly weak – as per this hand. Yeah decent c/raise I think and obv good fold after that. (Spoiler – guess he could have been on a diamond draw, but BTN is rather awful, lol)

* Relevant PF tell – I’ve noticed players with medium to big PPs rarely if ever recheck their holdings when you call their PF raise, but often recheck, say, 2 high cards (guessing for suits) before the flop after you’ve called. Anyone else noticed this? Often helps my post flop decisions.

Hand 5
K9s – don’t totally hate the overlimp but it’s a trouble hand (fold or raise better?) Flop is OK, turn and river played like an pro

Hand 6
99 – PF seems good, flop is a fold most likely for me. Any A is safe on that board so UTG+2 doesn’t need to bomb it too hard. Turn, I now think villain has broadway cards or a PP from 1010 to QQ or thereabouts. See the river exactly as you do. Very nice bluff imo. I may try to convince more than is necessary with slightly higher sizing, but can see how that works against you.

Hand 7
AA – PF great, on the flop I think there are many hands he does this with and JJ is the only one you’re in big trouble against. I think QQ and KK is likely along with heart draws, and I feel we can discount 66 because of your 3b and very often 88 too. A little anxiety here, but NHWP!

Hand 8
QQ – agree with everything PF, and set mining is good 2k deep. I think we can fold this flop, but the price is reasonable I guess. Yeah turn is a fold. Sand is right - villain doesn't think you have 6x in your range.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Hand 4: @ Sand mostly: I understand the sentiment. I just don't think 76s plays that well as a raise when there are already a couple limpers who I don't think will limp/fold that often. I prefer having big cards that will make decent TP sometimes to iso with.

Hand 5: Should def be a raise or fold pre, ainec. Agree with you guys. I think postflop is actually pretty standard (flop included, since villain's block-ish bet looks so draw-y).

Hand 6: I agree that flop is a fold. At the time I was thinking that if I'm folding 99 I'm folding every non-Ax hand, which kind of sucks for playing turns and rivers, but I think that's okay tbh. Was also just getting a bit stubborn too, if I'm being honest. Not an A-game moment. But I did think turn would play itself, just kind of sucks when 1/3 of the deck is overcards to my pair.

Hand 7: I feel pretty much exactly the same as you guys here. I was a little nervous 3bet jamming the flop in a 3bet pot with 1 pair, but range considerations really suggest we are pretty far ahead. The only question in mind is whether we want to flat the raise IP or just put it in. I think both have merit, but I lean toward jamming simply because there are some action-killers and scare cards (for both me and him) that can complicate things.

Hand 8: Def contradictory between pre thoughts and flop, but it's a lot harder to fold a 6-high board than say a J-high or K-high board in this spot, because it's just so hard for him to cbet like TT on a J high board. But he can easily cbet like 99 on a 7-high board, if that makes sense. But I really felt like he had AA and I was making a crying call OTF. Another non-A-game spot.

Thanks so much again for your input guys. It reeeaaallyyy helps to have input on the 2/5 spots in particular. Will have some more hands incoming soon!

 

[xdeucesx]

moar hands plz

 

[Matt Vaughan]

moar hands plz

Says the guy who didn't comment on a single hand from the last 2 rounds

But as you wish - I'll try to post not as many this time so it's not too overwhelming and we can maybe get more discussion on the more interesting spots:

Hand 1

Preflop:
Folds to me on the button, 7-handed, and I decide to make a loose open (for me) to $15 with two tight-ish non-reggy players in the blinds. SB folds, and the BB calls.

Flop: ($30) (2 players)
Obviously I flop complete gin given that the plan was to take down the blinds a high percentage of the time preflop. Villain checks to me, and I bet $20. Villain doesn't take too long to x/r to $75. I'm pretty confused, and my first, 1/2-driven instinct is to fold since I don't see what he can x/r other than 2-pair. But then I think that maybe villain could be over-valuing something like pocket 9's or pocket T's. He might think I'm always calling with bare 8x and not consider that he's overplaying his hand. I decide to call.

Turn: ($180) (2 players)
Villain doesn't think too long before betting $90. With his sizing I'm feeling even better about my hand being good, but I still had thought that villain might shut down sometimes so I am not confident on his hand range at all. I call.

River: ($360) ( players)
Villain cuts 4 chips off a 20-stack of reds, and moves a 20-stack of reds away from the rest of his chips, lining up a $120 bet. Then he pauses, and looks unsure of himself. He appears somewhat uncomfortable, and announces all in. The count is about $250. His line shouldn't really represent worse for value, but he appears physically uncomfortable, shifting in his chair, and not really wanting to look me in the face. I call.

Spoiler

Villain turns over red aces, and MHIG. Pretty interesting line by villain. Not 3betting is obviously going to be a mistake almost 100% of the time, even though in this case I of course fold pre. No idea what he's thinking my range might be from the flop onward. I think on the river he just had no idea where he was at, and thus the discomfort from shoving.

Hand 2
Yeah, fold pre, I know Looking for input on whether flop line is too optimistic, and the sizing.

Preflop:
One limper in EP, and a tight, good reg raises MP to $20. CO calls. I call in the SB. Limper also calls and we go 4-way to the flop.

Flop: ($80) (4 players)
I check, EP limper checks, and MP PFR tight reg cbets $55 after some thought. The time he takes with it and his somewhat small sizing (for a wet board) made the bet seem a little weak to me. Folds to me. I decide to semi-bluff x/r, and make it $140. Folds to PFR, who tanks a while and folds.



Hand 3
Thoughts on river line and sizing?

Preflop:
Folds to me in the CO, and I open to $20. A new, clearly non-reg player (non-hoodie wearing, throws chips in haphazardly) calls OTB and we go HU to the flop.

Flop: ($40) (2 players)
I cbet $25, and villain calls immediately. Looks like Jx, PP's, draws, and maybe some "floats" with just overs.

Turn: ($90) (2 players)
I make 2nd pair on the turn to go with my OESD. I actually think a bet now is definitely a semibluff, but I may actually get some small value from flush draws. I bet $45 and villain calls almost immediately again. The speed of his two calls suggests Jx or a flush draw - something he doesn't even consider raising or folding.

River: ($180) ( players)
A pretty interesting river. I make two pair, but there's 4 to a straight on the board. I feel like I crush nearly villain's entire range. There aren't many 8x in his range. It would be a gutshot (or J8 or a worse pair with an 8) at best on the flop. I think a made straight almost always raises the turn, so 86 isn't possible imo, and 85s and 84s are a bit of a stretch imo. Same with virtually any 3x - just doesn't seem likely.

He will fold draws no matter what I size, so I need to figure out what to size to get him to call with Jx. I opt to bet $60.

Spoiler

Villain almost snap-calls, and MHIG. He doesn't show.

 

[DunningKruger]

Haven't poked into this topic in a bit.

Hand 1 nh. I'm probably raising that at some point (turn I guess) unless I missed something when I skimmed the post. Don't mind your line tho and it certainly worked out given the run out and the result and all that.

Hand 2 has a lot to do with the unmentioned effective stack size, as well as obv things like how much of his range do we expect him to cbet here. Some 2/5 players will assume a draw (or a bluff) in villains shoes and jam over with over pairs or whatever. I can't do any maths without stack depth but if you can actually fold out like a QQ/JJ (that sizing likely will not) this c/r is a slam dunk of course. I rather like it just because despite being tightish he might iso pre with all kinds of interesting hole cards.

Hand 3 looks like you owned villain pretty good here (you are probably getting raised otr if you're beat). Again can't say much without approximate stack depth but what you did here is something a lot of players have a habit of doing - that is, bet a rather small amount on a scary looking board with a hand that can't beat the apparent straight or w/e out there but is trying to get some value from most other hands. Next time you're in villain's spot here and you don't see too many 8s among the aggressor's potential holdings, just raise or jam it. It works remarkably well. Live players generally don't do that here without the goods.

So I take it you're up quite a bit at 2/5 so far?

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Hey, DK, thanks for poking as always Always solid input from you that makes me actually take a step back and think. I often don't post ESS pre, and I should start doing this. I sometimes think, "we're deep enough it doesn't matter," but realistically unless we're like 300bb deep it often could matter in terms of picking lines.

Hand 1, yeah I mean tbh I just got a little lost on the turn, so I opted to call rather than raise when I wasn't sure if it was realistically for value. Makes sense though.

Hand 2, ESS were approximately $800-900 pre. Early in the session, but I've won a few pots including the 83ss (chronological from same session). It felt like an okay spot because I actually thought he'd cbet a pretty wide range with his relative position, and I also felt I could probably barrel, but sizing might get a little awkward now that I think about it. Though I could def barrel turn and make decisions from there I guess. (Pot would be $360 if he called and we'd have about $600 behind effective).

Also felt like I could rep some other stuff that comes in on turns but that might be overly optimistic. Might actually be better to x/r like an OESD and then rep FD's that come in, but that's a range consideration more than a vacuum-spot kind of thing.


Hand 3, love the advice about picking up on this type of spot and raising the crap out of them on the river. River raises are something I've not gotten much chance to experiment with yet at 2/5, but I'm implementing a lot more bluff-raising vs. weak ranges with trash both there and at 1/2. Always feels good to evaluate a weak range and just raise vs. someone who can't ever call.

And fwiw, ESS pre was between $250 and $350. It was hard for me to tell, because I was in seat 9, and he was in seat 1. Not a good excuse - I need to get better at checking these things ahead of time so I don't get to the river and then say "shit, I shouldn't have done X." On the river I didn't want to jam since I just felt like it's hard for him to call. I also didn't want to put him in for "most" of his remaining stack, if that makes sense.

I'm up $1,370 in about 35 hours. Nothing special, and not much of a sample, but feels good to not be uber-owned or anything yet.

 

[Mr Sandbag]

83: All good. Not sure what he can raise there either, so I wouldn't get crazy with it. Physical read on the river makes it even better. Also, I got a kick out of "loose open (for me)." I think 83s is a loose play for anyone...

53: Now THAT'S a loose call haha. Anyway, idk if I'm a fan of post flop. I'd much prefer if you had at least two over cards also. If you get called, you're in a pretty terrible spot on the turn, and you can't check back for a free card if you miss because you're OOP. I think the paired board makes it even more marginal too.

76: Played well. You could probably bet larger on the river. If he's at all capable of hand reading/thinking, it'll be pretty tough for him to put you on any straight.

 

[xdeucesx]

hand 1: looks good

Hand 2: As mentioned, dependent on stack sizes but seems fine

Hand 3: Good thinking the whole way, I play it exactly the same