*Don't Touch* Oreo's Cash Game Grind

[vinylspiros]

and sorry to hijack ur thread with this hand but i snap folded Aces on this flop. didnt even get to turn cause i know im beat here.

 

[or3o1990]

and sorry to hijack ur thread with this hand but i snap folded Aces on this flop. didnt even get to turn cause i know im beat here.

You're good buddy, that's what it's here for.

That is very similar. This guy seems like a spewmonkey though and it's 6max but even with his current stats how wide can we really assume him to be flatting 4bets pre, right? That's how I felt about the utg raiser calling my 3bet. He might be aggressive but I don't expect he's calling my 3bet very wide from his position.

 

[vinylspiros]

You're good buddy, that's what it's here for.

That is very similar. This guy seems like a spewmonkey though and it's 6max but even with his current stats how wide can we really assume him to be flatting 4bets pre, right? That's how I felt about the utg raiser calling my 3bet. He might be aggressive but I don't expect he's calling my 3bet very wide from his position.

your hand is even worse because the king pops up on the turn , and he can have a ton of boats. yea for the most part, he has something good on this particular flop and IMO if he has a medium pp hes not betting 3streets with it.hes mostly trying to get free cards and see a cheap showdown.


Its pretty obvious that you have something strong and when he choses to GII on river it looks like a clear fold since there not much we beat at this point even against aggrotards. sure your good some of the time in this spot but these calls are losing calls in the long run given the action.

 

[Figaroo2]

I don't know why you're so optimistic. A guy with his stats after only 40 hands is just a guy. We don't know a whole lot at this point and if you include the 100% FCb and 3bet how does this affect your read? I'm not giving him Q10 or k10 and QJ and KJ are a serious stretch imo. Why don't you give him any pp but you give him Q10s?

Lets give him the range I perceived and lets just assume that it goes brick, brick. If the big aces and big pairs cancel each other out as you said then we're left with the KQ's and 99-JJ. So is that 16 combo's of KQ even though there are cards on the board? Against the 18 combo's of pairs that we beat it's a very close race at this point. Now of the hands that we beat we get how many bets on average? The only hand that we beat that can even consider calling 3streets is AK and that is unlikely given the preflop action. I think that most of the hands we beat we get one street from.

However, he will bet all of his hands that beat us and all of his second best hands we beat as well as his bluffs all three streets because he's a LAG, right? Then letting him bet is more profitable than betting. And if we don't give him J10 or AJ then there's really no draws to worry about. Also, I think it's easier to get two streets from AQ's if we back-load rather than bet, bet. Why does a flop check seem so bad at this point?

Aces are just that, one pair of aces. I don't think it's bad not to bet given my reasoning. But please correct me if I'm wrong. If I thought he could have all of those other broadway hands then I would agree that it's a mistake but I don't think he has those in his range. As I'm continuing to look it over I'm more so wondering if folding the river was the mistake.

he was 32/27 in 40 hands at FR I suggest to you this guy is going to be calling you with a much wider range than you appear to be giving him.
I'm only concerned about the flop play not once the 2nd King drops on the turn. You just handed over initiative/ control of the hand and didn't bet an obvious value situation giving a free card that hurt your chances. I don't like giving free cards on a double broadway flop it's asking for trouble. I know we have to check these sometimes but I'd rather check boards I'm more likely to have whiffed like single broadway and low raggedy boards.
Ask John about the hand I'd like to resolve the best flop action here.

 

[MinhANguyen]

I don't see what is wrong with handing over initiative/control of the hand to our opponent. I check one pair hands some decent % amount in 3-bet pots depending on board textures, if the board smashes their range, etc. Handing over control is not always true anyway, since they probably check behind their SDV hands and most of their air since this board smashes our range. Even if we do, we let them bluff at it if they are ambitious enough to do so. We are always calling 2 barrels, and Villains usually don't have the guts to fire the last bullet once we check-call twice.

I also don't mind giving a free card. If he has a pair of K/Q, he's drawing dead to two outs. And there aren't too many combos of J10s in his range. And the board is super dry. There isn't even a flush draw. If you don't check AA here, you basically have complete air and weak hands that you're going to get barreled off in your checking range.

 

[or3o1990]

he was 32/27 in 40 hands at FR I suggest to you this guy is going to be calling you with a much wider range than you appear to be giving him.
I'm only concerned about the flop play not once the 2nd King drops on the turn. You just handed over initiative/ control of the hand and didn't bet an obvious value situation giving a free card that hurt your chances. I don't like giving free cards on a double broadway flop it's asking for trouble. I know we have to check these sometimes but I'd rather check boards I'm more likely to have whiffed like single broadway and low raggedy boards.
Ask John about the hand I'd like to resolve the best flop action here.

I asked you three questions that you ignored.. Also, I just outlined why there is imo more value in letting the LAG bet all the way down and you're just stuck on the flop still..

But fine I'll throw it up in PP.

 

[or3o1990]

I don't see what is wrong with handing over initiative/control of the hand to our opponent. I check one pair hands some decent % amount in 3-bet pots depending on board textures, if the board smashes their range, etc. Handing over control is not always true anyway, since they probably check behind their SDV hands and most of their air since this board smashes our range. Even if we do, we let them bluff at it if they are ambitious enough to do so. We are always calling 2 barrels, and Villains usually don't have the guts to fire the last bullet once we check-call twice.

I also don't mind giving a free card. If he has a pair of K/Q, he's drawing dead to two outs. And there aren't too many combos of J10s in his range. And the board is super dry. There isn't even a flush draw. If you don't check AA here, you basically have complete air and weak hands that you're going to get barreled off in your checking range.

Yeah I think it's fine. Villian was 100% fold to 3bet and cbet but a capable bettor so I don't think it's bad. It's almost like letting a pp draw imo, they rarely hit but they always have an opportunity to bluff multiple streets when they would have only called one otherwise.

 

[or3o1990]

Slight mistake here. In the moment I figured one had the straight or FD and thought the other maybe had 66. So i went ahead and let it go. Against just the straight it's a fold but against the both of them it's a call by 2%


iPoker - $1 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (CO): 182.4 BB
BTN: 230.3 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
SB: 127.03 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 8.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
BB: 111.65 BB (VPIP: 41.67, PFR: 8.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
UTG: 136.45 BB (VPIP: 8.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
UTG+1: 97 BB (VPIP: 9.09, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
MP: 28 BB (VPIP: 77.78, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
MP+1: 75.28 BB (VPIP: 41.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 4:spade: 4:club:

fold, fold, MP calls 1 BB, fold, Hero calls 1 BB, BTN calls 1 BB, SB calls 0.5 BB, BB checks

Flop: (5 BB, 5 players) 4:heart: 3:heart: 6:spade:
SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets 4 BB, BTN calls 4 BB, SB raises to 16.09 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 12.09 BB, BTN raises to 229.3 BB, SB calls 109.94 BB, fold

Turn: (273.15 BB, 2 players) 6:diamond:

River: (273.15 BB, 2 players) 7:heart:

BTN shows A:heart: 5:heart: (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 72%, Flop 40%, Turn 23%)
SB shows 5:spade: 7:club: (Straight, Seven High)
(Pre 28%, Flop 60%, Turn 77%)
BTN wins 373.42 BB

 

[Figaroo2]

I asked you three questions that you ignored.. Also, I just outlined why there is imo more value in letting the LAG bet all the way down and you're just stuck on the flop still..
But fine I'll throw it up in PP.

Srry at work all weekend bud, aint got time to give it much thought. I can see there isn't much chance of getting outdrawn here, it probably doesn't matter either way.

 

[or3o1990]

Srry at work all weekend bud, aint got time to give it much thought. I can see there isn't much chance of getting outdrawn here, it probably doesn't matter either way.

Lol it's all good. I threw it up in the thread but it looks like John doesn't want to touch it haha.

 

[Aces2w1n]

Wow rare draw. Double nut chase

I guess the only thing worse is 66 lol
But even if u get quads the str flush still wins haha

 

[or3o1990]

I've let a few sets go over the past couple of days.. The math is close but it's a slight mistake to fold. These were kind of weird spots that I haven't encountered a lot of. Not really knowing what to do and trying to crunch the numbers in these 3 way spots kind of sucked..


iPoker - $1 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 96.5 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
BB: 35.9 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 7.14, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 43)
Hero (UTG): 151.1 BB
UTG+1: 195.4 BB (VPIP: 21.54, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 65)
MP: 94.9 BB (VPIP: 13.04, PFR: 8.70, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)
MP+1: 107.55 BB (VPIP: 44.44, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
MP+2: 200 BB (VPIP: 19.05, PFR: 19.05, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 21)
CO: 96 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
BTN: 66.45 BB (VPIP: 43.75, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K♥ K♠

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, CO calls 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, SB calls 2.5 BB, fold

Flop: (13 BB, 4 players) T♦ K♦ Q♦
SB checks, Hero bets 9 BB, fold, BTN raises to 40 BB, SB raises to 93.5 BB, fold, BTN calls 23.45 BB

Turn: (148.9 BB, 2 players) 4♥

River: (148.9 BB, 2 players) 3♥

SB shows J♥ J♦ (One Pair, Jacks)
(Pre 80%, Flop 32%, Turn 16%)
BTN shows 3♦ 5♦ (Flush, King High)
(Pre 20%, Flop 68%, Turn 84%)
SB wins 30.05 BB
BTN wins 145.9 BB

 

[Aces2w1n]

Arent u 30% so good fold cuz villains werent deep enough

I personally not good enough to fold that but i like to gamble

Short stacker i wouldnt count for risking for flush normally tho

 

[MinhANguyen]

I think in both hands I'm checking.

44 it's 5-way to the flop, and you cannot profitably bet/GII. If it were 3-way or HU I might consider betting out. It sucks to get raised off your equity and implied odds of boating up.

KK also checking just because we are crushed by not only diamonds but AJ, and because it's multiway.

It's not likely we're going to get a lot of action unless we are beat in these hands. And if we are, boating up is great for us because we can stack them. It sucks to really get blown off a set, as they have potential to boat up. And despite the board pairing, I don't think a lot of players can get away from a flush/straight.

 

[TimovieMan]

lol you might be right.. I put this guy on 68. He never folded so I guess I could have thought maybe 44 but it's nbd.

Why did he not raise the river???

 

[or3o1990]

Arent u 30% so good fold cuz villains werent deep enough

I personally not good enough to fold that but i like to gamble

Short stacker i wouldnt count for risking for flush normally tho

I think it gave me 33% and with the other players money behind I'm pretty sure I should be getting it in but it was very close.

I think in both hands I'm checking.

44 it's 5-way to the flop, and you cannot profitably bet/GII. If it were 3-way or HU I might consider betting out. It sucks to get raised off your equity and implied odds of boating up.

KK also checking just because we are crushed by not only diamonds but AJ, and because it's multiway.

It's not likely we're going to get a lot of action unless we are beat in these hands. And if we are, boating up is great for us because we can stack them. It sucks to really get blown off a set, as they have potential to boat up. And despite the board pairing, I don't think a lot of players can get away from a flush/straight.

I think we get action from a lot of draws on these boards. In both hands one person did have us but the other just had a big draw. I especially don't like slow playing bottom sets but I can see your point. In multiway pots on coordinated flops I don't want to get blown off of my hand like with the 44. I'm not sure which line is better though. Because won't the villians be more likely to have draws than to have the nuts, even multi way?

 

[or3o1990]

A couple of fun spots this morning.

iPoker - $1 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 100.3 BB (VPIP: 16.00, PFR: 10.67, 3Bet Preflop: 3.33, Hands: 75)
UTG: 94 BB (VPIP: 7.97, PFR: 5.07, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 138)
UTG+1: 107 BB (VPIP: 13.83, PFR: 10.64, 3Bet Preflop: 6.06, Hands: 95)
Hero (MP): 117.2 BB
MP+1: 38.5 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
CO: 65.45 BB (VPIP: 18.03, PFR: 11.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 61)
BTN: 103.25 BB (VPIP: 20.34, PFR: 18.64, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 60)
SB: 58.25 BB (VPIP: 19.08, PFR: 10.53, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 155)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8♠ 8♣

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (6.5 BB, 2 players) 5♥ 7♥ 2♣
BB checks, Hero bets 4 BB, BB raises to 11.5 BB, Hero calls 7.5 BB

Turn: (29.5 BB, 2 players) 6♥
BB bets 18 BB, Hero calls 18 BB

River: (65.5 BB, 2 players) 4♠
BB bets 38 BB, Hero ?




I wanted to make this look bluffy and it paid off. He used his whole time bank and then called.

iPoker - $1 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: 100 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
MP: 47 BB (VPIP: 27.78, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)
MP+1: 71.05 BB (VPIP: 19.64, PFR: 10.71, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 57)
MP+2: 123.5 BB (VPIP: 22.73, PFR: 4.55, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 22)
CO: 123.7 BB (VPIP: 21.28, PFR: 19.15, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 47)
Hero (BTN): 105.5 BB
SB: 97.15 BB (VPIP: 7.25, PFR: 2.90, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 70)
BB: 81.05 BB (VPIP: 26.00, PFR: 12.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 50)
UTG: 124.15 BB (VPIP: 12.16, PFR: 8.78, 3Bet Preflop: 1.67, Hands: 149)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q♦ Q♣

fold, fold, fold, MP+1 raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 3 BB, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (9.5 BB, 3 players) 6♥ 8♠ Q♠
BB checks, MP+1 checks, Hero bets 5 BB, BB calls 5 BB, fold

Turn: (19.5 BB, 2 players) T♦
BB checks, Hero bets 13 BB, BB calls 13 BB

River: (45.5 BB, 2 players) 5♦
BB checks, Hero bets 84.5 BB, BB calls 60.05 BB

Hero shows Q♦ Q♣ (Three of a Kind, Queens)

Hero wins 187.05 BB


Off to the float spa then sushi lunch. Back on my grizzy by 730.

 

[or3o1990]

I'm having a pretty good week so far. I won over 5bi yesterday which is always nice. I've been on a bit of a heater. Making my 35h a week is seeming easier and easier so I'll have to raise the bar sometime but I've been slacking on my other goals. I give myself a c- at best in those departments and I've been putting off finishing The Theory of Poker. So I need to find the motivation to tidy up in those areas.

In other news I've started a new diet that is similar to the atkins diet. Pretty much I'm not eating grains and carbs at the moment. I picked up another book called Brain Maker. In the book Dr. David Perlmutter suggests that grains are not good for your brain health due to the affect that they have on your gut biome. So I figured if it could enhance my cognitive function it's work a shot! No noticeable affects yet but I'm only like 10 days in.

 

[xdeucesx]

I'm having a pretty good week so far. I won over 5bi yesterday which is always nice. I've been on a bit of a heater. Making my 35h a week is seeming easier and easier so I'll have to raise the bar sometime but I've been slacking on my other goals. I give myself a c- at best in those departments and I've been putting off finishing The Theory of Poker. So I need to find the motivation to tidy up in those areas.

In other news I've started a new diet that is similar to the atkins diet. Pretty much I'm not eating grains and carbs at the moment. I picked up another book called Brain Maker. In the book Dr. David Perlmutter suggests that grains are not good for your brain health due to the affect that they have on your gut biome. So I figured if it could enhance my cognitive function it's work a shot! No noticeable affects yet but I'm only like 10 days in.

Just start lifting heavy and the world will be your oyster.

 

[or3o1990]

No doubt. I have a kettle bell and I use it everyday but I miss heavy lifting. I need to pick up an Anytime or Snap fitness membership.

 

[or3o1990]

I don't usually get tilted but I've been camping the lobby for 40 minutes and can't get 4 FR tables going.. Sooo annoying.

 

[or3o1990]

This was a weird spot. I couldn't be sure if the re raiser was messing around because it was his first hand. So I didn't really want to GII pre but when he checks the turn I'm confident I'm ahead of him. The second caller can be pretty wide at this point and I don't want him to check behind. So I went ahead and put it in. I'm not sure what else I could have done.


iPoker - $1 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 175.95 BB (VPIP: 52.17, PFR: 39.13, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)
BTN: 96.1 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
SB: 99 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 1)
BB: 71.7 BB (VPIP: 23.53, PFR: 5.88, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)
UTG: 54.7 BB (VPIP: 37.50, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)
Hero (UTG+1): 103.35 BB
MP: 98.5 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
MP+1: 160.23 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 3.70, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 27)
MP+2: 95.5 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q:club: Q:diamond:

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, MP+1 calls 3 BB, MP+2 calls 3 BB, fold, fold, SB raises to 9 BB, fold, Hero calls 6 BB, fold, MP+2 calls 6 BB

Flop: (31 BB, 3 players) 8:spade: 3:diamond: 9:club:
SB bets 15 BB, Hero calls 15 BB, MP+2 calls 15 BB

Turn: (76 BB, 3 players) 2:diamond:
SB checks, Hero bets 79.35 BB, MP+2 calls 71.5 BB, fold

River: (219 BB, 2 players) J:heart:

Hero shows Q:club: Q:diamond: (One Pair, Queens)
(Pre 81%, Flop 10%, Turn 5%)
MP+2 shows 9:heart: 9:spade: (Three of a Kind, Nines)
(Pre 19%, Flop 90%, Turn 95%)
Hero wins 7.85 BB
MP+2 wins 216 BB

 

[Figaroo2]

MP2 initially just called so that brings all the sets into play but more especially 88 & 99. Difficult to see what else you could have done here other than check calling the turn.
You were ahead of the SB but seemed to have MP2 too wide, I suppose he could stick around with JT but not a lot else fits the play well.
We lacked information because of flatting the 3bet and then flatting the flop.
As played I'm just check calling the turn.
But we are still going to lose a fair amount running into a set here.

 

[or3o1990]

He's kind of a fish so I figure he's sticking around with most of his original flatting range because he'll assume he's getting good odds after I've just called. I think he can have some single 9's as well as 10 10 and jj and J10 that I beat. I'm not surprised that he had a set but I was most likely calling if he jammed. If he checked I still end up calling most rivers. And if he bet 1/2 pot I could call but then I'm committed.

 

[xdeucesx]

Move to 6m ldo. I don't want to live in a world where we are sigh shoving turn bc everyone is so nitty that they have sets here like all the time.

For real, looks fine. Can't really x/c turn since we have <PSB left and much rather jam than just x/call off. I guess we can fold, but like, if were folding here, whats the point of flatting flop? Might as well set-mine and fold QQ then.