F1 Racing Thread

[SPCotter]

I don't know if this will gather any interest, but as one of my keen interest outside poker, thought I'd start this myself, any fans here? I think tomorrow is the deadline where the entry list is published, and we find out if F1 really is going to go the same way and split like IndyCar/CART in the 90s!

I think personally they'll come to some sort of agreement, but I won't be surprised to see the likes of Toyota, Renault and BMW pull out at the end of this year.

 

[S93]

A split race format would be the end of F1 as the worlds premier racing series imo.
Im just praying the idiots at FIA start listening to FOTA, the drivers and the fans and stop trying to fix some thing that aint broken...

 

[MaxiRodriguez]

I'm a massive formula one fan and have watched it for years.

It's nice to finally see Jenson get his chance to shine, He's obvioulsy always had the ablility, but never really the chance to show it. Apart from maybe that win a Hungary a few seasons ago which was awesome. However him winning every race is a bit annyoing, would like to see a close season but doesn't look like that is going to be the trend.

As for the current situation over the future of F1, I fully agree with sindri and I pray that the FIA wake up and listen to FOTA. The last F1 season was the best for years, why are they trying to chop and change such as successful format. I understand the need to cut costs, but going about it in a way which is almost like a baby throwing the toys out of the pram is good not going to benefit the sport.

 

[CAPT. ZIGZAG]

I'm a massive formula one fan and have watched it for years.

It's nice to finally see Jenson get his chance to shine, He's obvioulsy always had the ablility, but never really the chance to show it. Apart from maybe that win a Hungary a few seasons ago which was awesome. However him winning every race is a bit annyoing, would like to see a close season but doesn't look like that is going to be the trend.

As for the current situation over the future of F1, I fully agree with sindri and I pray that the FIA wake up and listen to FOTA. The last F1 season was the best for years, why are they trying to chop and change such as successful format. I understand the need to cut costs, but going about it in a way which is almost like a baby throwing the toys out of the pram is good not going to benefit the sport.

It hasn't been successful for years. It's been sliding for years. They're loosing viewership by the droves to NASCAR and now they're loosing manufacturers to the economy.

The split format is only a departure as far as the "anything goes" nature of F1. Though, I love that aspect of F1 as well, right now the sport can't support that.

They don't want to penalize, or cripple that aspect of the sport. But if they leave it alone. they'll be down to a just few teams in two years.

The rule change, if you read it closely, tries to give the monster spenders their head. But it tries to give the lower budget teams a chance to compete.

If they don't have full fields, they won't fill the seats.

Remember the goober cool Can Am series? Man I miss those powerful, full bodied cars. Two abreast around turn 11 at the old Riverside Raceway. Popping out on the straight and listening to each of them pounding down 700 HP through open exhaust in a drag race up to turn 1. Lord, I do miss that. But they didn't change with their (empty seats) times and got dusted by Indy cars. Before they (Indy car powers that were) screwed that up and split the field into two camps. I haven't enjoyed an Indy 500 since. Nor have I held it in the same esteem as I used to. Just another race now. A race where a young boy is likely to get killed.

It's all about survival in auto racing right now. They're all loosing thier factory suppot. But I think, if you guys give it a chance, you'll like it. There are other things that are being changed in F1 as well. Such as, no more refueling. Full load, beginning to end. They can have full control of their front wings, and there's the KERS, RPM had been pulled back to 18K, they've gone back to slicks.

And..... They all have to carry four on board cameras next year.

All this is supposed to help the viewer see actual racing, and passing in the future. Something that has been lacking as of late (Re: boring). I know that three extra cameras per car will make my viewing pleasure much more exciting.

Give it a shot. I can't wait.


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[Pothole]

Latest News just in.

Three new names - and conditions - on 2010 entry list


The FIA published the entry list for the 2010 championship on Friday, with three new names - Campos Grand Prix, Team US F1 and Manor Grand Prix - joining the existing 10 Formula One teams.

However, the inclusion of McLaren, BMW Sauber, Renault, Toyota and Brawn is subject to those teams lifting the conditions they placed on their entries, with discussions on the matter to be concluded by next Friday, June 19. The FIA will continue to assess other possible new entries in the meantime.

The three new teams are all expected to run under the FIA’s voluntary budget cap and all have three-year engine contracts in place with Cosworth, who will return to Formula One racing for the first time since 2006. Of the existing teams, Toro Rosso and Brawn do not have an engine supplier confirmed on the FIA’s entry list.

Team US F1 is led by Formula One veterans Peter Windsor and Ken Anderson, whose US-based concern hopes to prove ‘that American technology, American drivers and the American competitive spirit can compete and win on the F1 global stage’. British-born Windsor is a former Williams team manager, while American engineer Anderson is an ex-F1 technical director. They are based in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Campos Grand Prix is headed by former Formula One driver Adrian Campos, whose Spanish Campos Racing team currently compete in Formula Three, having previously enjoyed success in GP2, winning the 2008 team championship. Campos Grand Prix will have headquarters in Madrid, plus a technical centre at Campos Racing's current base in Valencia. Its car will be built by renowned Italian chassis builders Dallara.

The surprise name on the FIA’s list is Manor Grand Prix. British team Manor Motorsport was founded in 1990 by former single-seater champion John Booth and over the years has fielded drivers such as Kimi Raikkonen and Lewis Hamilton in the likes of Formula Renault and Formula Three.

Manor Motorsport currently race in the Formula Three Euroseries and their F1 entry sees Booth link up with former Simtek F1 team owner Nick Wirth, whose company Wirth Research Limited will build the new team's cars.

The FIA statement in full:
2010 FIA Formula One World Championship Entry List

Following the completion of the applications process for teams to compete in the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship, the following teams have been confirmed.

TEAM / CONSTRUCTOR
SCUDERIA FERRARI MARLBORO / FERRARI
SCUDERIA TORO ROSSO / STR TBA
RED BULL RACING / RBR RENAULT
AT&T WILLIAMS / WILLIAMS TOYOTA
FORCE india F1 TEAM / FORCE INDIA MERCEDES
CAMPOS GRAND PRIX / CAMPOS COSWORTH
MANOR GRAND PRIX / MANOR COSWORTH
TEAM US F1 / TEAM US F1 COSWORTH
VODAFONE McLAREN MERCEDES* / McLAREN MERCEDES
BMW SAUBER F1 TEAM* / BMW SAUBER
RENAULT F1 TEAM* / RENAULT
PANASONIC TOYOTA RACING* / TOYOTA
BRAWN GP FORMULA ONE TEAM* / BRAWN TBA

*These five teams have submitted conditional entries.The FIA has invited them to lift those conditions following further discussions to be concluded not later than close of business on Friday 19 June.

The maximum number of cars permitted to enter the 2010 Championship has been increased to 26, two being entered by each competitor. Pending completion of the discussions referred to above, further due diligence is currently taking place on other potential entries.

 

[SPCotter]

There's a way to go in this yet, the FIA have Ferrari's entry as unconditional, as they believe they are contractually bound to compete in F1 regardless, can't wait for Silverstone, and really wish I was going this year!

 

[Charzr]

The Fia is playing with fire here!!!

 

[Egon Towst]

It hasn't been successful for years. It's been sliding for years. They're loosing viewership by the droves to NASCAR -

I don`t mean to be argumentative, but do you have any evidence for that, or did you just make it up ?

Published worldwide viewing figures show F1`s TV audience rose to 600 million in 2008. Nascar is surely a domestic American affair, of little consequence in global terms.

 

[Pothole]

I don`t mean to be argumentative, but do you have any evidence for that, or did you just make it up ?

Published worldwide viewing figures show F1`s TV audience rose to 600 million in 2008. Nascar is surely a domestic American affair, of little consequence in global terms.

It's oval racing fer gawds sake, shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as F1.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

lmao - hardly anyone outside america gives a toss about nascar and hardly anyone inside america gives a toss about f1. made up statistics ftw.

 

[Wolfe]

Every year the FIA make changes to the regs for the following year and there are always teams that threaten to quit if the proposed regs are arent scrapped. Push comes to shove and the teams keep competing. The positive exosure of F1 is something Ferrari, McLaren and the like do not want to give up.

Rules changes are what keep F1 strong. The aero changes werent made this year, Braun would not be where they are and Force India wouldnt be threatening to finally capture some points.

The budget limits are bringing in new blood which is always good.

 

[MaxiRodriguez]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...te-In-F1-In-2010/Article/200906315312027?f=vg

uh oh....

 

[SPCotter]

Jesus! and you're quick, I checked f1-live about an hour ago and no news at all! I really hope this isn't the end of the saga

 

[dAArrick]

Hey! its good to see others with similar interests besides poker.

Silverstone on Friday! I am sure that Button will be well supported, by the fans.

I like to see things being turned on their head in the sport. But it is hard for me to decide whether I like the idea of more budget caps for more teams. It would be great if there could truly be an unlimited development racing series.
On the other hand the more teams & fans the sport draws the more likely that the technology will grow quickly.

 

[Wolfe]

F1 will not survive without FOTA teams involved. 5 teams is not going to be enough to keep F1 in the position it is in today. This is hardball negotiation by FOTA.

Mosely and Ecclestone will have to bring some of the FOTA teams back to make a go of it. The big sponsorship money is with the FOTA teams and in this economy they cannot justify sponsoring teams in 2 leagues at this level. While F1 has the history, the teams were chosen because of their following and that following will remain in a new league. Fans will watch both leagues if they can but, sponsors will likely stick with the team rather than F1.

There is plenty of time and I am hopeful they can still come to terms and present a full field in the 2010 F1 series.

 

[Pothole]

None of the FOTA teams can afford to break away from FOTA ! the penalty? Pay each remaining FOTA member $50m compensation. Adolf Ecclestone has finally bitten off more than he can chew. Although Sky Sports has as usual jumped the gun by stating it's a done deal that the FOTA members have broken away, there is still plenty of time for negotiations to prevent it. It really is time for Bernie to go, his blase attitude towards ordering teams to do his bidding without any consultation is ridiculous when you consider the amount of money the teams spend to produce a competetive car. Consider this, you win the lotto and deposit $5m in your bank account, the manager 2 weeks later informs you that as your account is so large, they are reducing the amount of interest they pay you as opposed to smaller account holders. Methinks you would move to another bank pretty damn quick.

 

[CAPT. ZIGZAG]

According to an interview I heard during this mornings practice. It seems it's a done deal.

Goodbye F1.

Same thing they did to Indy Car Racing. It'll never be the same now.

Oh well, I still have my memories. The old Nueburgring. The six wheeled Elf car, the amazing Giles Villeneuve, etc.

​

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[CAPT. ZIGZAG]

A little tidbit.

F1: FOTA Had No Alternative Says Horner
Written by: Adam Cooper http://www.speedtv.com
06/19/2009 - 07:19 AM
Silverstone (GBR)

Red Bull Racing boss Christian Horner says that the FOTA teams had no alternative but to pursue plans for a breakaway championship.

Red Bull Racing boss Christian Horner insists that there was nowhere left for negotiations to go prior to today’s deadline.Horner insists that there was nowhere left for negotiations to go prior to today’s deadline.

"The teams feel they’ve gone as far as they can, the FIA obviously feels it’s gone as far as it can, and we’ve ended up in a situation where a solution hasn’t been found,’ he said. ‘Unfortunately, we have no alternative, because if we can’t race in F1 under the current rules, if you want to keep competing, then you’ve got to look at doing something else."

Along with Ferrari Red Bull and Toro Rosso are in the unusual position of being on the FIA’s official entry list, thanks to agreements signed several years ago but which the teams believe are not invalid.

"The agreements are obviously private and confidential between the parties, but we do have an agreement similar to Ferrari’s that also relies on rules being introduced in a certain way, which hasn’t been the case.

"I think the bottom line is that Red Bull wants to race against the best teams in the world, and the thought of not being in a championship where Ferrari, McLaren and Renault are – the big major teams – it’s unattractive for Red Bull to be in a championship with due respect with teams we’ve never heard of before."

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[dAArrick]

It certainly does to be a stalemate. Neither party will back down and will likely end up in a major legal battle for hundreds of millions (or Bernie billions).

As I said it would be great to get more teams involved, but if it is at a cost of the pure idea behind F1 to be the most exclusive & highly developed form of racing it seems to me that if you have the $$$,$$$,$$$'s than you should be able do what you like with it. No team should be forced into doing anything that they do not want to do. If the teams have the ability to form their own series than so be it, but I would rather just see FOTA buy out Bernie, fire Mosley, help out the new entrants and get on with it. I wonder if anyone invloved has given much thought about those that pay for it all, the sponsors or the fans. It would be good to see some sort of poll taken by the fans to see what it is that they want.

 

[Pothole]

Now that FOTA have finally lost patience with the FIA there is going to be a whole host of consequences. Andrew Davies ponders the things that immediately spring to mind...

* Max Mosley's bid to get teams to run on £40m a year (+ drivers + marketing) has always seemed out of touch with big money worldwide sports models. Spanish football club Real Madrid have a revenue of £290m and that's without a major showing in the Champions League. With a lot more sponsorship and global exposure, F1 has a far greater earning potential.

* What seemed like a too-early bid to abandon ship by Lola cars - when they announced that they were withdrawing their F1 application midweek - seems quite a good move now. Because they can join the FOTA grid, which (providing it has all current eight teams) will be the series people will want to watch next year.

* Will David Richards' ProDrive and Epsilon follow suit? And can any of the new teams raise enough money based on the fact that the series will not have the charismatic names associated with F1?

* Vijay Mallya looks like he might be shipwrecked in a sub-GP2 series, stranded like a beached whale now that the tide has gone out. Frank Williams was stuck whatever the case. He was already heavily involved with the FIA by manufacturing the chassis for their F2 series and sounded like he had already been advanced cash by Bernie for running in 2010. Mallya, who was thought to be funding his F1 dream from his industrial fortune, gave the excuse that he had various banking covenants that obliged him to sign up. How much is his team worth this morning...?

* In any divorce case there are bitter arguments over possessions. The biggest question of all will be: Who gets Monaco? F1 will have it for the foreseeable future, but can FOTA sneak a race in at the track the week after or the week before the race?

* Porsche were said to be looking at a bid to join F1 in its new revamped form. The makers of the world's favourite sportscar and the world's most pointless 4x4 were quick to distance themselves from the European Car Manufacturer's Association condemnation of the FIA last weekend. So it looks like the suck-ups have backed the wrong horse.

* Bernie's lawyers will have cancelled all holiday.

* Max Mosley's assertion that F1 could survive without Ferrari will now be put to the test. Presumably if the FIA chief believes this, then they won't be too fussed about FOTA forming their own series.

* FOTA's statement includes the reassuring phrase: "The major drivers, stars, brands, sponsors, promoters and companies historically associated with the highest level of motorsport will all feature in this new series." The thing they can't say is that they will be able to race at all the same circuits. Actually, there is one promoter they might not get along with - the guy responsible for Turkey and Hungary - short guy, getting on a bit, very tall ex-wife, lovely daughters...

* Donington's loss is Silverstone's gain. There must be real doubts over Donington's future if this series goes ahead. Who is going to invest in a £100m debenture scheme when the prestige event, the F1 British Grand Prix, will be a combination of two of the weakest F1 teams, some GP2 teams, some F3 teams and some Touring Car teams?

* Bernie Ecclestone's deliberate sidelining of Silverstone has provided the new FOTA series with a world-class historic race venue that is not contractually tied up with F1.

* Nico Rosberg will almost certainly have his wish to become F1 World Champion come true if he stays with Williams.

* CVC Capital Partners, the venture capital firm that owns the commercial rights to F1, won't enjoy reading the papers this morning. They will presumably want to know why FOTA made a reference to money owed to the teams which has further exacerbated the dispute. FOTA said: "Furthermore, tens of millions of dollars have been withheld from many teams by the commercial rights holder, going back as far as 2006." Presumably CVC know the reasons for Bernie withholding this money...?

* Pepsi Max brands itself on giving the maximum taste. Conversely Max F1 will have minimum driver personalities. Pity the organisers of the European GP in Valencia. They have paid a ton of money for a grand prix that will not feature Fernando Alonso for the foreseeable future.

* If this series goes ahead, Max Mosley will at least have shed his image as the man who likes to be flayed in cellars. He will be known very simply as the man who killed F1.

:deal:

 

[Wolfe]

FOTA Championship Series: What are the Races?

I am curious what events will show up in the FOTA Championship Series should it actually come to pass next year. As a fledgling series I would expect only 8 to 10 races in the inagural season.

Here are the locations I think are most likely:

Magny-Cous france
Nurberg germany
Jerez de la Frontera Spain
Indianapolis United States
Montreal canada
Imola Italy
Fuji Japan
Kyalami South Africa
mexico City Mexico
Silverstone United Kingdom

Imola is an unconfirmed race for the F1 2010 season and Ferrari's home track so even if the event does appear on the 2010 schedule, I expect them to insist on dispensation to host a FOTA race. I F1 refuses, I expect them to support Ferrari rather than Mosley and Ecclestone.

I would also like to see Monoco show up on the the FOTA schedule the week after F1. All the rubber that would have been laid down would make for an extremely grippy track and an outstanding race. It is probably an extreme long shot as the evil duo will do everything in their power to prevent FOTA from gaining access to the most presigous venue in F1.

I see North American venues coming back as they left because Bernie demanded such a big cut of the gate it was no longer profitable to host an F1 race. FOTA will be much more reasonable with the money distribution. This would be a huge opportunity for South Africa to be reassociated with a premier racing series and they will jump at the chance to host a FOTA race.

Where do you think the FOTA Championship Series would take place?

 

[SPCotter]

I think your list seems reasonable, I think James Allen (F1 inside expert and former UK commentator) said that FOTA would infact have the monaco race, I guess the monaco contract must differ from those of the other tracks.

I think FOTA would be better distributing the money, but one would have to think that they would still need to employ someone to organise TV deals etc. who will still take a cut, and with a breakaway, and bernie's own links and hard driven deals, the income that they actually earn to share in a breakaway series would undoubtedly be lower, so it's all swings and roundabouts.

Anyway, half an hour to the British Grand Prix! Shame for Jenson, and for Mark Webber, I like Seb Vettel, but I'd love to have Mark, win his first race at silverstone! He got held up badly by Raikkonen yesterday and is lighter on fuel than Vettel. So barring a miracle start from Barrichello or problems from Vettel, should be Seb's race! Regardless Silverstone always produces great racing!

 

[MaxiRodriguez]

So what did everyone think of the Race? Hats off to Vettel, he was in a class of his own.
Jenson struggled on that middle stint on the harder tires, maybe that was a bad move by Brawn.
I was Impressed by Massa, he had a solid race and moved up 7 places from his start.
The first few laps were intense! great racing throughout the pack, I did enjoy that Hamilton/Heidfeld battle, Poor lewis, at least he's trying lol.
It was a shame Nakajima couldn't capitalise on his career best quali, I was routing for him to get a solid points finish.

Well I thought it was a good British Grand Prix, and I hope all this political nonsense can be sorted out so we get back to enjoying the sport we all love.

 

[GeoffLacey]

Was there today Those cars are, frankly, epic. Phenomenally fast and the sound is just unbelievable. Good just to forget about the politics and enjoy the race. First time I've been down and I really enjoyed it. Have no idea what happened in the race itself though lol

 

[SPCotter]

It was a good race, lots of action at the back end of the field, glad the tv director chose to stick with that rather than watch Vettel circe the track a second a lap quicker than anyone else! Geoff I am so jealous, I tried to get tickets but they wouldn't accept different payment and delivery addresses (had only just moved) and by the time I got it sorted all the general admission tickets were sold out! Looks like it's not the last race at Silverstone anyhow, if donington falters (which looks likely) or FOTA set up and Donigton have their 'F1' race, Silverstone would surely appear on the FOTA calendar.

Brawn reckon that the cooler temps hurt them more than everyone else, but if todays result is biased more to the other teams updates than it appears, if Red Bull can win races and the likes of Toyota, Ferrari and Williams can trouble and take points off Brawn, the championship is far from over! And it's this phase of the season that's gonna hurt them most, the car was designed in 08 in the Honda days, but the pullout would have interrupted development significantly, hence everyone catching up. Also, they've been waiting it seems in a 'highest bidder wins' scenario regards title sponsorship, they've had a deal from Branson on the table for over a month at least, with all this FIA / FOTA squabble, in particular their financial situation doesn't look as good as it did now. The only thing keeping them racing this year is Honda giving them the cash equivalent of what it would have cost them to shut the team down.