After all, who believes that most poker sites are rigged?

[Captainine9]

Programmers I want to hear you the most.
Of course the official terms alegate that there is no manipulation of the cards dealt in online poker room tables. It actually says that (and this is only for the big poker sites) the dealing cards system is "as random as possible". Wait, is it totally random or not?
Folks, legal or not, I do believe our real experience more than "legal terms and conditions" drawn by the company lawyers. We are talking about multi milionare companies that has every resource available to circumvent the borders of legal burocarcy. Even though there is regulation, it doesn't mean they have no way of rigging and profiting by it in their softwares.
"They would loose all their players if it was rigged". No, because the players are dumb and the company too smart. "There are small poker sites that we have to worry about, but big ones like GG or PS would never do that". Really? Does that make any sense at all? Small companies get caught because they don't have the legal resources to back them up. As more money a company possess, more we have to worry, cause basically they can do whatever they want. You can say whatever you want, call me conspiratory, but in a capitalist system, this is a reality.
What grounds can we have to at least justify this allegations, if they say is not rigged? Math. Well, we are students of chance, probability, and I'm telling ya, with frequency I've seen with my own eyes some turnouts that math would disagree with.
But the insteresting thing would be to hear some software engineers, programmers, people that actually know how it is to manipulate, to PROGRAM this kind of system. Oh, the big letters are to make sure we're talking about something that can be pre-set, previously defined, architected, programmed. We are talking about something that is more than possible to be rigged within legal boundaries.
Tell us your opinion.
TY

 

[KrazyKoo]

I don't think the deck in any site is rigged but unibet hexapro multiplier is, try it after deposit vs withdrawal and you'll see the difference.

I assume all those lotto based raffles are rigged since there is no way of proving they are not

 

[Captainine9]

I don't think the deck in any site is rigged but Unibet hexapro multiplier is, try it after deposit vs withdrawal and you'll see the difference.

I assume all those lotto based raffles are rigged since there is no way of proving they are not

And which proof do we have about the randomness of dealing cards in online poker rooms?

 

[kanogott]

I think not all sites are rigged. It would be a very negative aspect for every site which has a rigged image. Only the rumours would be negative and players would change to other sites with a better image. The regulation will has open eyes on these theme. The sites itself also would control the players an would reduce the risk, that players are rigging. From time to time, the sites finding players which make some bad play and rigging.

 

[KrazyKoo]

And which proof do we have about the randomness of dealing cards in online poker rooms?

I think that lot of people have ran tests on dealing of cards / probability odds on sites that have local hand history files. There was even website about this I think.

 

[SpanRmonka]

Alright mate, I'll engage. Tell me WHY they do it?

 

[Captainine9]

I think that lot of people have ran tests on dealing of cards / probability odds on sites that have local hand history files. There was even website about this I think.

I think programming might open up possibilities that probably goes beyond most tests. Is a sutile manipulation, maybe not simply of the cards dealt, but the possible results in a tournament, for instance. Also, there is always an algorithm that can "direct" the kind of thing that appear to us in a random system, right? The random mode on spotify is not entiraly random.
But I'm only speculating about online poker rooms. After all, what does it mean to be "as random as possible"? Is it random or not?

 

[seiya1989]

Hello I hope you are well. I think that the endless debate about whether they are manipulated or not has lost its meaning. Everyone believes what they want to believe. until no one brings me concrete evidence from a reliable source. I will continue to play at least in ps.

 

[Captainine9]

Alright mate, I'll engage. Tell me WHY they do it?

That's a bit obvious question. Everything is about profiting. If they can somehow control, or something close to control their players, they can make people win enough to play again the next day, but not enough to cash out, for instance.
I'm saying that if software engineering allow them to rigg it without getting into regulatory issues... the companies would most likely do that.

 

[Captainine9]

Hello I hope you are well. I think that the endless debate about whether they are manipulated or not has lost its meaning. Everyone believes what they want to believe. until no one brings me concrete evidence from a reliable source. I will continue to play at least in ps.

Hello.
I also continue to play, but always questioning and searching logic and information.

 

[puzzlefish]

I don't think the sites rig their number generators. I think the random number generators are flawed, either by design from whoever programmed them, or through poor programming. I think that the cards that show up are random but somehow the players who receive the winning and losing hands are not so random.

 

[Suns of Beaches]

🥱🥱🥱

Cant wait for those programmers to chime in. Saw some posts of some of them here in the past.

As far as i can remember the only "real evidence" they had was that they are programmers and know what they are talking about 🥲

 

[Captainine9]

I don't think the sites rig their number generators. I think the random number generators are flawed, either by design from whoever programmed them, or through poor programming. I think that the cards that show up are random but somehow the players who receive the winning and losing hands are not so random.

That's a possibility as well.

 

[Captainine9]

🥱🥱🥱

Cant wait for those programmers to chime in. Saw some posts of some of them here in the past.

As far as i can remember the only "real evidence" they had was that they are programmers and know what they are talking about 🥲

Is important to at least question if it's possible in matters of software engineering, giving that there is no actual evidence comming from the sites, only terms and allegations.

 

[puzzlefish]

🥱🥱🥱

Cant wait for those programmers to chime in. Saw some posts of some of them here in the past.

As far as i can remember the only "real evidence" they had was that they are programmers and know what they are talking about 🥲

Cool, do you remember where these posts were? I like to read those kinds of posts.

 

[Colbefc]

If you think about it logically the poker sites make enough money running legit games. If i site was proved
to be rigged it would lose all its players immediately, it would just not be worth them doing. Having played
online as long as poker has been online I have NEVER seen any evidence of a poker site, big or small, being rigged.

 

[hilary antonik filho]

What would be the purpose of a poker site manipulating the plays, I don't believe that can happen

 

[SpanRmonka]

That's a bit obvious question. Everything is about profiting. If they can somehow control, or something close to control their players, they can make people win enough to play again the next day, but not enough to cash out, for instance.
I'm saying that if software engineering allow them to rigg it without getting into regulatory issues... the companies would most likely do that.

A bit obvious!!!

Right, so are you saying that they rig it to allow me, a microstakes winning player, not much but something, to win. I have cashed out on multiple sites multiple times, on pokerstars I haven't actually, although its my biggest BR, to win just enough, or are you saying the other players, win enough, but not enough to cash out?

Or are you saying they allow YOU to win enough but not cash cash out??

FYI, its you alone who only allows you to win enough, but not cash out

 

[SpanRmonka]

Is important to at least question if it's possible in matters of software engineering, giving that there is no actual evidence comming from the sites, only terms and allegations.

Why would the sites have evidence of them rigging themselves?

 

[Captainine9]

A bit obvious!!!

Right, so are you saying that they rig it to allow me, a microstakes winning player, not much but something, to win. I have cashed out on multiple sites multiple times, on pokerstars I haven't actually, although its my biggest BR, to win just enough, or are you saying the other players, win enough, but not enough to cash out?

Or are you saying they allow YOU to win enough but not cash cash out??

FYI, its you alone who only allows you to win enough, but not cash out

Dude I'm only raising questions due to lack of knowledge on software development. I'm not saying I believe that, but in our society and market logic, it is absolutely possible.
People think about a rigged game as something too specific, but it can be, for instance, a core algorithm on table matchmaking (example), or chips balancing in order to direct who gets which hand. The thing is WE DON'T KNOW. We know that everything is possible on computer programming.
I was educated to rationalize and ask questions, not blindly defend the things I like.
This is a discussion envoirment, right? I'm bringing to discussion some thoughts because there are too many patterns when you play daily on online poker rooms, and on live poker they simply DON'T happen, the probability sometimes is too short, and variance too high.
We gotta raise questions, that's all. Everyone has thought about it, why not argue?

 

[Poker Orifice]

Cool, do you remember where these posts were? I like to read those kinds of posts.

dmorris68 was a 'real' programmer and formally active member. Look for his posts earlier on in the MegaRigged thread. THere's some excellent stuff in there that should've been stickied (would've been great to just link threads like this one to it... although 'it' was a series of posts they made... as in dozens or more).

 

[Poker Orifice]

Everyone has thought about it, why not argue?

this is false imo

Personally I thought about it for a couple of weeks back in my first few months of playing online poker & never considered it even once in 15yrs since. I recall making a post about it & fortunately for me I had some members (different forum, not CC) not berate me & instead tried to educate me. I listened to sthem & then focused my attention on learning how to play the game instead. (back then as a micro stakes recreational player (I worked full-time) I profitted $1k+/mth. for 4years, playing in mostly private league games on Fulltilt, Stars, Titan, UB, Carbon, pokertime, williamhill, bodog and a couple dozen more).
There were players suggesting it was rigged back then too.... and I'm pretty sure that none of them were winning.

 

[SpanRmonka]

Dude I'm only raising questions due to lack of knowledge on software development. I'm not saying I believe that, but in our society and market logic, it is absolutely possible.
People think about a rigged game as something too specific, but it can be, for instance, a core algorithm on table matchmaking (example), or chips balancing in order to direct who gets which hand. The thing is WE DON'T KNOW. We know that everything is possible on computer programming.
I was educated to racionalize and ask questions, not blindly defend the things I like.
This is a discussion envoirment, right? I'm bringing to discussion some thoughts because there are too many patterns when you play daily on online poker rooms, and on live poker they simply DON'T happen, the probability sometimes is too short, and variance too high.
We gotta raise questions, that's all. Everyone has thought about it, why not argue?

I refer you back to my earlier point. Why? Why do you think they would rig the software?

I fully understand being educated to not just accept what the standard status quois. I am anti corporation, anti capitalist and anti government. BUT what I am asking is why? What has happened to you to make you question it? I play online and increasingly live. I've seen some crazy stuff happen live too,

How often have you played in a casino environment in the last year?

 

[Amblo]

Well, poker is a game that involves luck and if you've played a reasonable amount live you'll realize that it's very similar to online, you can go through long periods of bad luck, and even if you play decently things don't work out as they should. as expected. Not to mention that your mind becomes increasingly shaken and negative and this inevitably affects your results.
I've been losing for about a year now, and I've already lost about 20 thousand dollars, and previously I went through another big period of losing before landing a hit. The good news is that I have never invested large amounts of money and most of the money I earned for free, and I have no reason to be helped by websites, quite the opposite.
Poker doesn't work for some people, it has to be very important to you for it to work, and you have to have nerves of steel to survive the fluctuations.
I've already been through what you're going through, and if this is really what you want for yourself, I only advise you not to give up and try until your last drop of blood.
One issue you raised is really interesting, which is randomness, if it is real, in fact binary code systems imitate randomness, but don't worry because the systems on the most well-known sites are very well done and if you worry, with your game, and by improving and observing standards you will go much further than worrying about something that you cannot change or do better.

 

[Amblo]

Dude I'm only raising questions due to lack of knowledge on software development. I'm not saying I believe that, but in our society and market logic, it is absolutely possible.
People think about a rigged game as something too specific, but it can be, for instance, a core algorithm on table matchmaking (example), or chips balancing in order to direct who gets which hand. The thing is WE DON'T KNOW. We know that everything is possible on computer programming.
I was educated to rationalize and ask questions, not blindly defend the things I like.
This is a discussion envoirment, right? I'm bringing to discussion some thoughts because there are too many patterns when you play daily on online poker rooms, and on live poker they simply DON'T happen, the probability sometimes is too short, and variance too high.
We gotta raise questions, that's all. Everyone has thought about it, why not argue?

I think you don't play live enough, and what is your mental state when you play live? Are you happy by any chance? and without doubts or suspicions? relaxed doing what you like? and paying attention to the game I guarantee? and when you get a bad beat do you have someone to blame live?