JOEBOB69
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Last edited:
JOEBOB69
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
PS is allowing U.S. players to convert there FPP,and there VIP status to money and allow another cash out.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...er-vip-program-benefits-us-residents-1033556/
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...er-vip-program-benefits-us-residents-1033556/
NineLions
Advanced beginner
Silver Level
Bye bye UB/AP US players monies?
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=26457251&postcount=2363
This coming after the raid of their offices in Costa Rica.
btw, Stars Costa Rican office had a visit too but Steve D says employees have returned to work.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=26457251&postcount=2363
This coming after the raid of their offices in Costa Rica.
btw, Stars Costa Rican office had a visit too but Steve D says employees have returned to work.
roundcat
Creature of leisure
Silver Level
Charade You Are
you can call me Frost
Silver Level
Ugh. Wake me up when it's over.
That's kind of how I'm feeling. It's like I fell asleep on April 14th and woke up in some communist country.
Oh wait, I didn't fall asleep on April 14th because I kept FTP open til after midnight to finish my Take 2 bonus.
dmorris68
Legend
Loyaler
Not at all. I think most of us predicted it (I know I did). It's actually uncanny how it's going almost exactly according to some nefarious plan that we semi-joked about them having...
rowhousepd
Rock Star
Silver Level
Any idea if Full Tilt is allowing points to be convereted? This is definitely the right thing to do, and I hope FT will follow in Stars' path.
That's kind of how I'm feeling. It's like I fell asleep on April 14th and woke up in some communist country.
Oh wait, I didn't fall asleep on April 14th because I kept FTP open til after midnight to finish my Take 2 bonus.
I was one of those folks who just kept it on to avoid the software update that ended it all. Sadly, I didn't complete the Take 2 bonus, but apparently they are dispersing them pro-rated to players who didn't finish but were on target to clear it.
alaskabill
Legend
Silver Level
The hits just keep on coming. The feds are seizing real estate connected to the founder of Full Tilt.
http://blogs.forbes.com/nathanvardi...-playboy-playmate-in-online-poker-forfeiture/
http://blogs.forbes.com/nathanvardi...-playboy-playmate-in-online-poker-forfeiture/
rowhousepd
Rock Star
Silver Level
Next step: US sends in Navy Seals Team 6 to extract poker execs from locations abroad.
News alert.... Donald Trump to the Stars, Full Tilt, & Cereus: "You're fired!" He reports to be "very proud" for the "major role" he had in bringing down the big 3.
News alert.... Donald Trump to the Stars, Full Tilt, & Cereus: "You're fired!" He reports to be "very proud" for the "major role" he had in bringing down the big 3.
pokerchris
Legend
Silver Level
This is ridiculous! It's guilty until proven innocent.
the lab man
CardsChat Irregular
Silver Level
Tilt actually paid me mine even though I was in the states the last day and could not play there.
S
stooopid
Rising Star
Silver Level
One day you get arrested and charged with conspiracy. The next day you marry a Playboy Playmate. Ain't America great?!
S
stooopid
Rising Star
Silver Level
Please bear with me through this longer-than-average post....
I am “Stooopid” for several reasons:
1) The more I try to find the answer to a question the more confused I become.
2) Unlike most on this forum, I LOST money playing online.
I have posted these questions on this forum before but either my question was not answered or I am too Stooopid to figure out where it was. (I *am* signed up for auto-email replies, aren’t I? I have yet to receive any.)
I made numerous deposits, dating back to November 2010 and totaling in excess of $3000, to FT. While all were immediately credited to my FT account none have been processed though my bank.
While most on this forum seem to be concerned with the if/when they will receive funds in their FT account question, I wonder when -- if ever -- I can expect my FT deposits to be processed through/deducted from my bank account.
I *suspect* no one knows the answer ... and that FT has a plethora of lawyers looking into the question. Yet, while I am not one to shirk either a legal or moral obligation, it seems to me that if these transactions were illegal at the time they were conducted (were they?) then I have no expectation -- legally or morally -- for them to ever be processed. Is that a fair assumption?
Yesterday (May 6) I emailed FT the following:
“Your recently emailed "Update for U.S. Players" addressed withdrawal questions but did not address questions regarding unprocessed deposits.
May I correctly assume that since such transactions were deemed "illegal" none of my ten deposits totaling in excess of $3,000 will ever be processed?”
Much to my surprise, I received a reply today (May 7) (albeit an “auto-response” one):
“At this point in time it has not been determined what will happen with these transactions. As soon as we have more information we will contact the affected players outlining what actions will be taken.”
So, while it is nice to know FT is answering emails, my question remains unanswered: do I need to keep an extra $3000 in my bank account -- for, potentially, the rest of my life --in the event that, if and when this legal issue is resolved, FT processes these withdrawals?
Sorry for the rambling. I’m frustrated. :fight:
I am “Stooopid” for several reasons:
1) The more I try to find the answer to a question the more confused I become.
2) Unlike most on this forum, I LOST money playing online.
I have posted these questions on this forum before but either my question was not answered or I am too Stooopid to figure out where it was. (I *am* signed up for auto-email replies, aren’t I? I have yet to receive any.)
I made numerous deposits, dating back to November 2010 and totaling in excess of $3000, to FT. While all were immediately credited to my FT account none have been processed though my bank.
While most on this forum seem to be concerned with the if/when they will receive funds in their FT account question, I wonder when -- if ever -- I can expect my FT deposits to be processed through/deducted from my bank account.
I *suspect* no one knows the answer ... and that FT has a plethora of lawyers looking into the question. Yet, while I am not one to shirk either a legal or moral obligation, it seems to me that if these transactions were illegal at the time they were conducted (were they?) then I have no expectation -- legally or morally -- for them to ever be processed. Is that a fair assumption?
Yesterday (May 6) I emailed FT the following:
“Your recently emailed "Update for U.S. Players" addressed withdrawal questions but did not address questions regarding unprocessed deposits.
May I correctly assume that since such transactions were deemed "illegal" none of my ten deposits totaling in excess of $3,000 will ever be processed?”
Much to my surprise, I received a reply today (May 7) (albeit an “auto-response” one):
“At this point in time it has not been determined what will happen with these transactions. As soon as we have more information we will contact the affected players outlining what actions will be taken.”
So, while it is nice to know FT is answering emails, my question remains unanswered: do I need to keep an extra $3000 in my bank account -- for, potentially, the rest of my life --in the event that, if and when this legal issue is resolved, FT processes these withdrawals?
Sorry for the rambling. I’m frustrated. :fight:
Debi
Forum Admin
Administrator
I wouldn't keep it in there for the rest of your life - but would leave it in there for now. All you can do is wait and see how this all gets resolved. Just pretend the money is not there - cause it shouldn't be.
At some point in the future if they have not taken it I would consider it their loss. However I would close that account and move the funds to a new account when I felt I had waited long enough.
At some point in the future if they have not taken it I would consider it their loss. However I would close that account and move the funds to a new account when I felt I had waited long enough.
dj11
Legend
Silver Level
There will be statute of limitations probably similar to what you see on many checks. "Not valid after 180 days".
In effect Full Tilt was extending credit. Review your T&C's to determine what they said about it when you signed up, and print a copy of it. All T&C's have a disclaimer saying they (the sites) can change the T&C's at any time without notifying you. So you may get lucky if they haven't covered this issue with a recent change.
C
cAPSLOCK
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Not so sure the first half of that statement is true.
Nonetheless I wish you the best with your situation.
gefishy
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Good work, U.S. Government...
Several pro poker players are moving out of the U.S. and countless more are hitting the unemployment line. Yet another consequence of shutting down the 3 largest worldwide online poker sites:
After Poker Websites Shut Down, U.S. Pros Mull Move Abroad - TIME
In an economic climate where every tax dollar is sacred, it is good to know that our government continues to push out its wealthy tax-payers. Also, with a potential decline from 10,000,000 online poker players down to roughly 2,000,000 who regularly play, it seems to me that there is a significant increase in unemployment in a country so badly in need of jobs.
Maybe this witch hunt could have waited or, better yet, not have happened at all thanks to a successful and profitable legislation and taxation of these poker behemoths...
But what do I know. I am just a dude on a poker site. I would strongly suggest writing your politicians if you agree this is a waste of government time and resources. They should be getting employers in to the states, not pushing them out!
gefishy
Several pro poker players are moving out of the U.S. and countless more are hitting the unemployment line. Yet another consequence of shutting down the 3 largest worldwide online poker sites:
After Poker Websites Shut Down, U.S. Pros Mull Move Abroad - TIME
In an economic climate where every tax dollar is sacred, it is good to know that our government continues to push out its wealthy tax-payers. Also, with a potential decline from 10,000,000 online poker players down to roughly 2,000,000 who regularly play, it seems to me that there is a significant increase in unemployment in a country so badly in need of jobs.
Maybe this witch hunt could have waited or, better yet, not have happened at all thanks to a successful and profitable legislation and taxation of these poker behemoths...
But what do I know. I am just a dude on a poker site. I would strongly suggest writing your politicians if you agree this is a waste of government time and resources. They should be getting employers in to the states, not pushing them out!
gefishy
P
PlayedYou73
Visionary
Silver Level
I think you are kinda missing the point though...that the most serious charges against the poker sites are related to bank/wire fraud and money laundering. Each count of which carries a 20-25 year sentence. Those charges have nothing to do with poker.
The 'government' didn't force the poker sites to break those laws. If the sites had stayed out of the American market, it could be argued that legalization would be further ahead then it is, but they couldn't resist trying to get a piece of the pie after seeing other sites enter the market thru possible illegal business practices.
I'm not happy about the situation, as a Canadian i'm still able to play. But I certainly do not see this situation as being completely the fault of the government.
The 'government' didn't force the poker sites to break those laws. If the sites had stayed out of the American market, it could be argued that legalization would be further ahead then it is, but they couldn't resist trying to get a piece of the pie after seeing other sites enter the market thru possible illegal business practices.
I'm not happy about the situation, as a Canadian i'm still able to play. But I certainly do not see this situation as being completely the fault of the government.
Daniel72
Legend
Bronze Level
gefishy
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Playedyou73:
The charges have everything to do with poker, if for no other reason than that they are shutting down poker sites!
However, to respond to your points directly:
"The government didn't force the poker sites to break those laws..."
You're right, they didn't. However, if you dig into the charges a bit further, they are directed at their 3rd party payment processors. Should Full Tilt et al. have made sure that their processors were following the rules? Maybe. I know personally, when I deposited at Full Tilt, it showed up as FTP Payments. If they were trying to get one past Uncle Sam, they weren't trying very hard.
"If the sites had stayed out of the American market, it could be argued that legalization would be further ahead then it is..."
How? Firstly, in order to convince anybody to "buy" anything, for example a customer to buy the service, the most effective way to build value is to let them try it first. In this instance, by poker sites being in the U.S. (Not a crime, important note, nor the main subject of these allegations), they allowed U.S. economists and other statistics analysts to see exactly how much U.S. taxpayer money was flowing through the system. It would stand to reason that legislators would see roughly 10 million users spending boatloads of money and think "Boy, taxing this revenue from the sites would be a great way to bolster our domestic coffers in a terrible economic climate!" The fact that they haven't is more a commentary on politics than any sort of legislative or business discussion.
"...I certainly do not see this situation as being completely the fault of the government...."
You have a point there. Blame lies in an American consumer base which simply thinks its ok to "leave well enough alone" and not raise a stink about legislation. The fact that now thousands if not millions of Americans are without their livelihood means that a sleeping giant has awakened. I firmly believe that this action by the DOJ will only serve to bring light to the benefits of regulation and taxation as well as the skill inherent in a game of poker.
Thanks for your feedback.
The charges have everything to do with poker, if for no other reason than that they are shutting down poker sites!
However, to respond to your points directly:
"The government didn't force the poker sites to break those laws..."
You're right, they didn't. However, if you dig into the charges a bit further, they are directed at their 3rd party payment processors. Should Full Tilt et al. have made sure that their processors were following the rules? Maybe. I know personally, when I deposited at Full Tilt, it showed up as FTP Payments. If they were trying to get one past Uncle Sam, they weren't trying very hard.
"If the sites had stayed out of the American market, it could be argued that legalization would be further ahead then it is..."
How? Firstly, in order to convince anybody to "buy" anything, for example a customer to buy the service, the most effective way to build value is to let them try it first. In this instance, by poker sites being in the U.S. (Not a crime, important note, nor the main subject of these allegations), they allowed U.S. economists and other statistics analysts to see exactly how much U.S. taxpayer money was flowing through the system. It would stand to reason that legislators would see roughly 10 million users spending boatloads of money and think "Boy, taxing this revenue from the sites would be a great way to bolster our domestic coffers in a terrible economic climate!" The fact that they haven't is more a commentary on politics than any sort of legislative or business discussion.
"...I certainly do not see this situation as being completely the fault of the government...."
You have a point there. Blame lies in an American consumer base which simply thinks its ok to "leave well enough alone" and not raise a stink about legislation. The fact that now thousands if not millions of Americans are without their livelihood means that a sleeping giant has awakened. I firmly believe that this action by the DOJ will only serve to bring light to the benefits of regulation and taxation as well as the skill inherent in a game of poker.
Thanks for your feedback.
smd173
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
The PPA claims that 10 million US players played online and that it has dropped to 2 million. That doesn't mean there were 10 million players who made their living off of online poker.
There was a group who did, and another group who supplemented their income through online play. There were only 60,000 people who contacted Congressmen after Black Friday according to the PPA. I would imagine that most of those 60,000 were the ones who "lost their job".
60,000 is not that much when it comes to unemployment. Typically the unemployment numbers are around 400,000+ a week. And no poker players will ever show up in those numbers because they are not eligible for unemployment.
So there will not be a significant increase in unemployment because of it.
gefishy
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Ok, first things first, I specifically avoided putting an exact number of people who would be hitting the unemployment line precisely because those numbers are A) bloated and B) not indicative of the number of poker players displaced by this action.
Second, those unemployment numbers mark "new jobless claims" not necessarily "people going on unemployment". For example (from: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/05/us-usa-economy-instant-idUSTRE74437V20110505) last week, jobless claims were around 474,000 (quite high, and the highest since last November) however, read a little farther and you see the truth in the numbers: 4-week average of unemployment claims. Moreover, those numbers are across all sectors for all domestic employers.
Yes, 60,000 people is a drop in the bucket compared to the over 225 million Americans in this country, but is larger than the entire population in thecity of Janesville, WI (roughly 58,000) who were devastated when GM pulled their SUV production plant. Though the whole city didn't work there but approximately 2,400 lost jobs due to the closing between GM and its local suplier Lear. (source:http://www.pbs.org/nbr/site/onair/transcripts/081223c/) This dramatically affected the entire economic climate of southern WI, and GM's total 3,400 lay-off at that time had a devastating blow on the U.S. economy, a fact which can not be denied.
(more importantly read this if you sincerely want to start dropping specific numbers to look like you know what you are talking about: http://www.forexfraud.com/forex-articles/weekly-jobless-claims.html)
One more bit on that "Typically the unemployment numbers are around 400,000+ a week.": 60,000* lost in one day is a 15% jump in your "new jobless claims". That number is not insignificant.
*that 60,000 that you feel represents the total of those affected financially due to "Black Friday", and this is you saying this, are also the people who contacted congress and complained... Do you seriously mean to suggest that everybody who was affected contacted Congress? If you didn't you were clearly not out of a job? That is kind of like saying "America spoke" during the 2008 presidential election in which roughly 58.2% turned out to vote. An election which, by the way, had the highest number of voters EVER. (Source: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/socdemo/voting/publications/p20/2008/tables.html)
Anybody can twist numbers to look the way they want them to. Know your numbers, site your sources, and be prepared to be put in your place.
The fact of the matter is that ANY increase in unemployment directly attributable to government action is counterproductive in a society where the government teeters on the brink of shut-down. They need revenue not unnecessary expenditures on a hyped up "money laundering" charge that steals headlines.
I hope you enjoyed that wall-o-fact (I mean wall-o-text... my bad)
Thanks for your feedback.