Running down the clock on every hand: "timebank trolling" or meaningful strategy?

[Propane Goat]

It is definitely not a good idea to use max time for every decision to avoid giving away timing tells. As I stated already, timing tells are only relevant, when there is more action to follow, so they dont matter, when we fold. Ok maybe we can pretend to be thinking about it for a few seconds before folding, if we were bluffing and get raised, to not make it completely obvious how weak our hand was. But in other situations, like when its a 4-way flop, and someone bet half pot, we are not giving away any information by snap folding, since we obviously will have hands, that missed completely.

And more importantly we can standardize our pace without taking the max time for every decision. As an experienced player most decisions can be made in a few seconds, so we only need to avoid acting instantly, when the decision is particularly easy. The times, where it might be beneficial to run down the clock, will often coincide with situations, where we close the action, because we face a river bet, or we face a bet for all our chips on an earlier street. And here it also does not matter, that its obvious, our hand is somewhat weak, because after we make our decision, the hand is over. And if we call, people will see our hand anyway, so we can not keep them guessing.

Finally if we believe, we have an edge on the field, this edge will show more, the more hands we get to play. There are exceptions to this like being a mid or short stack on an MTT bubble or maybe being on a particular tough table. But in general we should be happy to see as many hands per hour as possible, and this is of course also true, if we play for fun. So acting excessively slow might not only be annoying for other players, but it also tends to ruin our own game, and therefore it is a pretty dumb thing to do.

Strongly agree with the point about folding immediately when you were never going to play the hand anyway. Is there really a reason to go in the tank when you have 92o in the BB and there is 3-betting and 4-betting pre-flop before it's your turn to act?

I sometimes wonder if players that take max time on every single hand without exception think they're trying to exercise some kind of empty authority or power play over the table, the same way toxic companies tell you to come to their office at 9AM for a job interview but make you wait outside for two hours on purpose before calling you in, just because they can. This is a well-known tactic of people who like to control others: I am more important than you, so I will make you wait for me.

I've never played that league but that would be the first and last time for me,... How bad is their game they think that helps?.... but forget that what a way to treat fellow players in a private league. Is the whole table really supposed to sit and twiddle their thumbs waiting on one player for the max time every single orbit?, no thanks lol

It was a definite turn-off and IMO accomplished nothing at all. If you weren't ever going to play the hand anyway, just fold already.

 

[fundiver199]

Strongly agree with the point about folding immediately when you were never going to play the hand anyway. Is there really a reason to go in the tank when you have 92o in the BB and there is 3-betting and 4-betting pre-flop before it's your turn to act?

Exactly. With the 92o example there does not even need to be 3-betting and 4-betting, since we are probably never going to play such a junky hand, unless we get a freeplay. So as soon as someone has put in at least a min-raise, or if we are in any other seat than BB, we can check the "fold" box already ahead of our turn. This speeds up action to the benefit of everyone, and it also makes it easier to multitable, because the table will not require our attention, when perhaps we have more difficult decisions to make on other tables.

I also check the "call" box ahead of my turn, if my call will close the action, and its clear, I am going to call, regardless what anyone does in between. Like for instance if I have opened pocket aces under the gun, and someone, who has me covered, has moved all-in. In that situation there is no reason to slowroll him and potentially other players, who might have entered the pot after him. Just beat them into the pot and hope to not get sucked out on

 

[maronza1]

Using maximum time on everyhand is a viable strategy only for 2 reasons,
1- if you have a decision to make, to play your hand or fold. Some hands are very tricky, such as JJ in mid pos. with a lot of bets and raises before you, it may take extra time for you to decide on whether to continue or not.
2- when approaching the bubble, action all over the tables slows down, and hence you have to also slow down when you are at risk of busting, it may even take you to using your full time bank to fold a hand that you could have folded automaticaly, so as to stand a chance of getting in the prizes.

Other than that, its disruptive, its disturbing the flow of the game, it makes the game not enjoyable.

 

[Claudiunm]

I think it is perfectly acceptable to use the entire timebank in each hand. It's within the rules of the game. And it is a game strategy for many. Destabilize other players to buy time to try to reach the cash. Think calmly, especially for multi-table players. all of this is involved.
If this bothers me, it means I'm giving way to anxiety in the game.
And that path to the dark side of the force is.

 

[infonazar]

I never get nervous if my opponent deliberately drags out the time. It definitely doesn't create any additional inconvenience or problems for me. On the contrary, it even looks quite funny and sometimes, if there are two of us at the table, I can also start to deliberately delay the time in response. In general, I believe that everyone can spend their timebank as they want, so in general, I don't consider even deliberate time drag to be a violation of the rules. Maybe it's a violation of etiquette, but it's not a violation of the rules.

 

[Suns of Beaches]

Last night's Cardschat freeroll winner was tanking every single hand without fail while I was at the table. Every single hand, whether he played or folded he ran the time bar right down every time. Can't say whether he continued his actions after I had gone. I chucked my chips in after an hour. Better things to do, like word puzzles and sleep.

When I'd seen that he'd won overall, I presumed he'd bored everyone to death and they'd just given up or fallen asleep.

If I was operating a poker site, I'd be clamping down on that type of behaviour hard. Very hard. Ruins the game for everyone, especially when others start doing it too, probably in retaliation.

Over the years i saw many players doing that stuff in private cardschat tournaments and its honestly disgusting since those tournaments do also exist to bring new players into the game.

I just quick fold and play super fast myself if i see this type of behaviour and if they loose a big pot and get shortstacked/suddenly start to play quick with their shortstack, i start to play slower.

Unfortunately everyone can do whatever he wants with their timebank.

 

[Luvepoker]

There is really no good reason to just tank every single hand. This said I tend to be one of the players who do take their time to make a decision. Now it's fundiver said there are many hands like 9/2o that there is no decision those are hands I do click the auto fold. But if it's a hand that is playable in the position I'm at I tend to think over the situation before I make a play and that does include folding. No I rarely ever go to use the full clock but when I do it is because I'm trying to determine what's the best course of action.

One thing that was said in the first post was after a bad beat the player time out the next hand. This is something I've actually done as well but it's usually only that hand. It's not because I'm trying to be a jerk about it it's usually I've got my eyes closed and I'm just trying to calm down doing them real quick meditation or something. But to those who do it every single hand it's really not classy.

 

[juliannorei]

I personally use the time bank only on extremely difficult hands and in the bubble.

I think it's delaying the game for no reason.

 

[odonob]

Time banks are too long on almost all poker sites. This creates dead time which doubles the running times of MTTs. There should be a maximum 15 seconds per hand. You are either playing the hand or not. It’s not the final table of the world series of poker. Another factor is players timing out because they are not present at the table.

 

[Lena M]

Hi
Just like there are different people in life, there are different players in poker. Of course, it's unpleasant when a situation arises and an opponent deliberately drags out the time, but I don't consider it a gross violation of the rules. I think it's more of a violation of ethical standards. The timebank is designed for a player to use it at his own discretion, and of course it's sad when players use it with malicious intent, but it can't be considered a rule violation. I think such behaviour simply characterises such players as not quite decent people and nothing more.

 

[pavel1111111]

Yeah , i really dont understand myself this kind of playing , maybe to do this when you are near to the buble or very close to get in some money prize or to letter up some stages of the money jump , but to play like i dont agree with this type of play ..

 

[john_entony]

I use timebanking when I realize that I will definitely be in the prize zone. At the same time, I rarely use the timebanking after getting into the prize zone. Timebanking is like a guarantee of money for me. So when I slow down the pace of the game, it doesn't mean I'm trolling someone.

 

[Johnny9Nine]

Using maximum time on everyhand is a viable strategy only for 2 reasons,
1- if you have a decision to make, to play your hand or fold. Some hands are very tricky, such as JJ in mid pos. with a lot of bets and raises before you, it may take extra time for you to decide on whether to continue or not.
2- when approaching the bubble, action all over the tables slows down, and hence you have to also slow down when you are at risk of busting, it may even take you to using your full time bank to fold a hand that you could have folded automaticaly, so as to stand a chance of getting in the prizes.

Other than that, its disruptive, its disturbing the flow of the game, it makes the game not enjoyable.

I just finished employing #2, while not putting chips in the pot for perhaps the last hour. The cutoff was 45 payouts of $11 tournament tickets, so there was literally no value for finishing higher or lower, as long as in the money. I started the stall in position #4 and ended up in #38, so had I played faster I might have seen another 10-15 flops, which likely would've necessitated me risking my stack.

Sometimes it is simply a percentage play.

 

[maronza1]

I just finished employing #2, while not putting chips in the pot for perhaps the last hour. The cutoff was 45 payouts of $11 tournament tickets, so there was literally no value for finishing higher or lower, as long as in the money. I started the stall in position #4 and ended up in #38, so had I played faster I might have seen another 10-15 flops, which likely would've necessitated me risking my stack.

Sometimes it is simply a percentage play.

Yes you see, im glad you got my point

 

[Rijckenborg]

I waste time when player get all-in each and every hand.

 

[Newzooozooo]

Hi
I don't care if my opponent deliberately drags out the time. If I play poker, I'm never in a hurry. If my opponent believes that such a game will somehow help him achieve a better result, then perhaps this is his right. And although it is not ethical or correct, I cannot consider the use of a timebank to be a gross violation, even if the timebank is used to delay the time.

 

[Johnny9Nine]

Hi
I don't care if my opponent deliberately drags out the time. If I play poker, I'm never in a hurry. If my opponent believes that such a game will somehow help him achieve a better result, then perhaps this is his right. And although it is not ethical or correct, I cannot consider the use of a timebank to be a gross violation, even if the timebank is used to delay the time.

I do not understand the basis for this claim. Isn't playing entirely within the rules, by definition, both "ethical" and "correct"?

 

[userX]

It's unpleasant when an opponent deliberately delays the time, but I already calmly accept such situations. Everyone decides for themselves how to use their timebank, and if a player decides to stall in such a way to annoy others, then perhaps it's their right. I just don't pay attention to it.

 

[G0930]

I suppose it can be strategic when for example you're short stacked and you want to make the next money jump.

In general think it's not trolling but a result of multi-tabling mostly.

 

[Rachidao]

People uses time bank form many reasons, multi table, no time tell, to think etc. I think if there is a time for people to use, why not? Don't bother me at all.

 

[bablovod]

I see this all the time: addictive players want to put their opponents out of patience and make the wrong moves, but they can also be annoyed by playing fast on our part, forcing them to make the wrong moves. And vice versa, everyone knows this. Whatever you do in terms of time, you're doing the right thing, and the future will show how right you are.
However, I would like to note that replay poker did not give temporary trolls the opportunity to troll

 

[rachelle2291]

Probably most of the time in freerolls in particular players just aren't paying attention. They are surfing the internet or some kind of multitasking. I plead guilty to this myself sometimes (actually lots of times).

 

[Rost]

The timebank is there to give us a chance to think about our next move in a tough hand, but we've seen players who take a bad beat then immediately start running down their timebanks on every single hand to intentionally impede the flow of the game and "take revenge" on the other players at the table.

At the same time, some players argue that they want to make sure that they don't give off tells based on how long it takes them to act. Therefore, they want to make sure that they take the same amount of time on each hand and since they might need more time on some hands, they will take maximum time every single time it's their turn to act so that their actions are consistent.

I've seen both scenarios play out at times in games where there is no reason to slow down play and hope someone else busts on the bubble, so what do you think? Is intentionally using maximum time on every hand a viable strategy to avoid giving off tells, or is it just "timebank trolling" to be disruptive and try to get others at the table to go on tilt? Do you think that this behavior should be considered bad conduct to the same level as angle shooting?

Such behaviour can rightly be considered bad, but I definitely do not consider delaying to be a violation of the rules, even if it is done on purpose. We are all human beings and there are different situations in our lives, and we cannot be sure of the reason why a player is delaying the game, maybe he is just mentally retarded, or he has some other psychological problem. It's wrong to be categorical in such cases

 

[LUKADONCICMVP]

I hate slow players it's more annoying than the bad beats.

 

[black and]

I don't mind if my opponents use their timebank, even if they use it to stall. I usually play 4 tables, so my opponents' stalling is only to my advantage