Running down the clock on every hand: "timebank trolling" or meaningful strategy?

[Propane Goat]

The timebank is there to give us a chance to think about our next move in a tough hand, but we've seen players who take a bad beat then immediately start running down their timebanks on every single hand to intentionally impede the flow of the game and "take revenge" on the other players at the table.

At the same time, some players argue that they want to make sure that they don't give off tells based on how long it takes them to act. Therefore, they want to make sure that they take the same amount of time on each hand and since they might need more time on some hands, they will take maximum time every single time it's their turn to act so that their actions are consistent.

I've seen both scenarios play out at times in games where there is no reason to slow down play and hope someone else busts on the bubble, so what do you think? Is intentionally using maximum time on every hand a viable strategy to avoid giving off tells, or is it just "timebank trolling" to be disruptive and try to get others at the table to go on tilt? Do you think that this behavior should be considered bad conduct to the same level as angle shooting?

 

[seiya1989]

Under strict rules, they have the right to spend all their time on every hand that the players want. Personally, it can be a little annoying, but right here there are players who spend all their time on each hand and we're barely playing free tournaments so I'm no longer surprised at all.

 

[MK_]

The time bank is there to think ... when a player needs time to think, if you need the max amount of time every hand something is very wrong with your game. I'm not buying the hiding tells excuse.... you could take a short amount of time and it would still be the same thing, really think that's a stupid idea anyway if you can't mix up your game better than that timing tells aren't going to help you..

I think painting a target on your back by aggravating the entire table and causing them to miss hands while other tables are playing and accumulating chips is not a great idea but trolls are gonna troll lol

 

[Vallet]

A poker hand is not only who has the best cards, but also the thinking process. If a chipleader constantly raises and annoys others, this is considered a normal strategy. Using a timebank will help calm him down.

 

[luckyfish98]

The timebank is there to give us a chance to think about our next move in a tough hand, but we've seen players who take a bad beat then immediately start running down their timebanks on every single hand to intentionally impede the flow of the game and "take revenge" on the other players at the table.

At the same time, some players argue that they want to make sure that they don't give off tells based on how long it takes them to act. Therefore, they want to make sure that they take the same amount of time on each hand and since they might need more time on some hands, they will take maximum time every single time it's their turn to act so that their actions are consistent.

I've seen both scenarios play out at times in games where there is no reason to slow down play and hope someone else busts on the bubble, so what do you think? Is intentionally using maximum time on every hand a viable strategy to avoid giving off tells, or is it just "timebank trolling" to be disruptive and try to get others at the table to go on tilt? Do you think that this behavior should be considered bad conduct to the same level as angle shooting?

All means are good if they can affect other players, psychologically or otherwise
I have seen live poker games where one person talks a lot, the other takes time and the other plays aggressively
I believe any way is fine as long as it doesn't break the rules

The time bank is there to think ... when a player needs time to think, if you need the max amount of time every hand something is very wrong with your game. I'm not buying the hiding tells excuse.... you could take a short amount of time and it would still be the same thing, really think that's a stupid idea anyway if you can't mix up your game better than that timing tells aren't going to help you..

I think painting a target on your back by aggravating the entire table and causing them to miss hands while other tables are playing and accumulating chips is not a great idea but trolls are gonna troll lol

it is the time reserve used by the players and everyone has the right to use it as they wish

Under strict rules, they have the right to spend all their time on every hand that the players want. Personally, it can be a little annoying, but right here there are players who spend all their time on each hand and we're barely playing free tournaments so I'm no longer surprised at all.

here our thoughts are the same my friend

 

[pentazepam]

Get rid of the time banks and throw people off the tables if they time out too many times in a row.

People who take a long time to decide are often multi-tabling over their capacity.

It wouldn't surprise me if some also use some RTA.

(I can have some sympathy for slow play if someone is mentally or physically handicapped or a beginner.)

People who play for fun often hate it when the games slow down. So unless it's a high-stakes game: speed it up!

 

[MK_]

it is the time reserve used by the players and everyone has the right to use it as they wish

You can absolutely use it as you wish.... but just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do something, ....especially slowing the entire table to a crawl every single hand for no reason?, try doing that live and see how that works out for you

 

[fundiver199]

Personally I always act as fast as possible, unless I have a decision to make, or I continue in the hand and want to not give away timing tells. But if for instance I know, I am going to fold preflop, there is no reason for me to do anything other than click the "fold" button, so that no time is wasted. Except of course, if its on the bubble, and its beneficial for me to let players bust on other tables. However I also dont notice it much, if other people are slow to act, since I usually play 4-5 tables at a time. So if action is slow on one table, this just mean, that more of my attention will go to the other tables.

 

[luckyfish98]

Personally I always act as fast as possible, unless I have a decision to make, or I continue in the hand and want to not give away timing tells. But if for instance I know, I am going to fold preflop, there is no reason for me to do anything other than click the "fold" button, so that no time is wasted. Except of course, if its on the bubble, and its beneficial for me to let players bust on other tables. However I also dont notice it much, if other people are slow to act, since I usually play 4-5 tables at a time. So if action is slow on one table, this just mean, that more of my attention will go to the other tables.

I only take time when it's good for me and I never try to screw someone up with the time bank (if, for example, there are two players to the money, then my time bank is needed )

 

[Mauricio Perrotta]

In live poker I imagine that it is done to not give clues to your hand, to show calm, in online poker I think it's unnecessary, your rivals don't see your face or your gestures when you play. I sometimes do it in online poker so that the big blind always falls after my turn

 

[steve01991]

you are given the time, it's up to you how to use it. i have no problem with someone taking their time and figuring things out.

 

[BetterThanAvgButNotByMuch]

So they do it to tilt ppl, ok and not to give away timed tells, ok that's two reasons to do it.

I'm pretty sure there is at least one more good reason to take a certain amount of time on every hand.

Actually I know of at least two more.

Before assuming they're trying to annoy ppl or something, go look them up on sharkscope and see if they're a decent player.

If they're a member of this community then see what they're posting about and see if they might have a clue.

Or like the OP said, maybe they are just sick and tired of donk plays from losing players and they're trying to influence the game without typing a single nasty word in the chat.

They're trying to tell ppl at the table to actually play with half a care about the game and try.

So communicating is one reason without getting nasty.

There are other reasons and I'm not going to list them.

But there is also trade offs with taking a few seconds so they have to figure out what they are and weigh if its worth it.

And when opponents actually understand the trade offs then they might not care either.

Slowing down the game when those clocks online are in seconds and it bothers ppl doesn't make sense to me anyway.

But I know for a fact if someone taking a few seconds a hand bothers someone else then that says something about the person getting irritated as well.

I mean, If you ever watch holdem players attempt to play low limit or freeroll Omaha variants?

You need a few seconds to laugh at what they're potting and repotting with.

Easiest examples are the big pairs: AA69 KK38 especially multiway deepstacked, lol or their post flop play of nasty wet boards when there are straights, flushes or the board pairs and they're potting thinking one pair is good with no draws or anything like they're playing holdem.

I mean silly.

And you don't have to understand anything about any of the Omaha variants besides basic ABC holdem basics to realize what is going on.

A368 in omaha 8, lol. they're playing for a low but how many low cards are in their hand??? lolol but you need the those for the board, lol. makes no sense and they're potting it.

Basic ABC basic outs poker there. Not hard. Even if you don't understand outs, I'm playing for a low and i have a lot of low cards but i need low cards for the board, lol not hard or complex.

And guess what happens when someone has A2xx, lolol.

Or you get into a hand and someone else also has A2xx and they get quartered, whatever.

If someone wants to use the few seconds to laugh, watch tv, or not pay attention to the game or to annoy someone or try some edge then. . . whatever.

I'm sure there are hypers or some tourn on poker sites that force players to act faster to someone's standards and if thats not fast enough then multi table some hypers.

What would somoene say in a hyper? they're taking the full 2-3 seconds or whatever time, lolol. ugh, lol.

 

[Ogma]

Some prime suspects in the Cardschat freerolls.

 

[Gritz18]

Do you think that this behavior should be considered bad conduct to the same level as angle shooting?

I tend to use my time if I'm involved in the hand, or I'm in the BB, but I don't usually use the time bank.

I've been having problems with Replay Poker, so sometimes it can give the impression that it takes me a while to make a decision, but I believe it's a problem with the site, this doesn't always happen, sometimes the game flows normally.

 

[Propane Goat]

Great discussion, thanks everyone.

Reminds me of some turmoil in CardsChat League quite a few years ago where someone was using max time on every hand "to avoid giving tells" as they stated, and the arguments even spilled over into the League threads.

I generally don't multi-table because I don't have the skill level to do it effectively, so I definitely notice slow players more.

 

[ebazynski]

Or you get into a hand and someone else also has A2xx and they get quartered, whatever.

That is one of the most infuriating aspects of the hi/lo game for me, but still the game I enjoy most.

 

[iceheart888]

most of the time players use a lot of time to act due to the fact that they have many open tables and they need time to think about several hands at the same time. But there are also players who have a strategy in using the timebank.

 

[skaterick]

use your time as you wish.

 

[fundiver199]

Reminds me of some turmoil in CardsChat League quite a few years ago where someone was using max time on every hand "to avoid giving tells" as they stated, and the arguments even spilled over into the League threads.

It is definitely not a good idea to use max time for every decision to avoid giving away timing tells. As I stated already, timing tells are only relevant, when there is more action to follow, so they dont matter, when we fold. Ok maybe we can pretend to be thinking about it for a few seconds before folding, if we were bluffing and get raised, to not make it completely obvious how weak our hand was. But in other situations, like when its a 4-way flop, and someone bet half pot, we are not giving away any information by snap folding, since we obviously will have hands, that missed completely.

And more importantly we can standardize our pace without taking the max time for every decision. As an experienced player most decisions can be made in a few seconds, so we only need to avoid acting instantly, when the decision is particularly easy. The times, where it might be beneficial to run down the clock, will often coincide with situations, where we close the action, because we face a river bet, or we face a bet for all our chips on an earlier street. And here it also does not matter, that its obvious, our hand is somewhat weak, because after we make our decision, the hand is over. And if we call, people will see our hand anyway, so we can not keep them guessing.

Finally if we believe, we have an edge on the field, this edge will show more, the more hands we get to play. There are exceptions to this like being a mid or short stack on an MTT bubble or maybe being on a particular tough table. But in general we should be happy to see as many hands per hour as possible, and this is of course also true, if we play for fun. So acting excessively slow might not only be annoying for other players, but it also tends to ruin our own game, and therefore it is a pretty dumb thing to do.

 

[MK_]

Great discussion, thanks everyone.

Reminds me of some turmoil in CardsChat League quite a few years ago where someone was using max time on every hand "to avoid giving tells" as they stated, and the arguments even spilled over into the League threads.

I generally don't multi-table because I don't have the skill level to do it effectively, so I definitely notice slow players more.

I've never played that league but that would be the first and last time for me,... How bad is their game they think that helps?.... but forget that what a way to treat fellow players in a private league. Is the whole table really supposed to sit and twiddle their thumbs waiting on one player for the max time every single orbit?, no thanks lol

 

[MishkaZL]

The timebank is there to give us a chance to think about our next move in a tough hand, but we've seen players who take a bad beat then immediately start running down their timebanks on every single hand to intentionally impede the flow of the game and "take revenge" on the other players at the table.

At the same time, some players argue that they want to make sure that they don't give off tells based on how long it takes them to act. Therefore, they want to make sure that they take the same amount of time on each hand and since they might need more time on some hands, they will take maximum time every single time it's their turn to act so that their actions are consistent.

I've seen both scenarios play out at times in games where there is no reason to slow down play and hope someone else busts on the bubble, so what do you think? Is intentionally using maximum time on every hand a viable strategy to avoid giving off tells, or is it just "timebank trolling" to be disruptive and try to get others at the table to go on tilt? Do you think that this behavior should be considered bad conduct to the same level as angle shooting?

I believe that everyone has the right to play as they see fit. The time bank is intended for the player to use it. It's up to the player to decide how they use their time bank. If a player uses the time bank deliberately to annoy his opponents, it is certainly meanness, but I cannot consider it a violation of the rules. This can be compared to soccer, where in the last minutes of a match, players, depending on the situation or the score, can start to deliberately play a slow game. Is this a good thing? Probably not. Is it a violation of the rules? Definitely not.

 

[Ogma]

Last night's Cardschat freeroll winner was tanking every single hand without fail while I was at the table. Every single hand, whether he played or folded he ran the time bar right down every time. Can't say whether he continued his actions after I had gone. I chucked my chips in after an hour. Better things to do, like word puzzles and sleep.

When I'd seen that he'd won overall, I presumed he'd bored everyone to death and they'd just given up or fallen asleep.

If I was operating a poker site, I'd be clamping down on that type of behaviour hard. Very hard. Ruins the game for everyone, especially when others start doing it too, probably in retaliation.

 

[Igor G]

I don't mind at all if my opponents use the time bank the way they prefer. It's everyone's choice how to use their time within the rules. Of course, it's not ethical to delay the game, but nowadays, especially when it comes to online play, it's not so important. For example, I never get angry if my opponent deliberately delays the game, it doesn't bother me, primarily because I usually play 3-4 tables at a time and always have something to do.

 

[hardongear]

It's trash, terrible for the game and chases the avg rec/fish away. Which certainly very much hurts growing the game. Anyone that loves poker and wants it to grow should be disgusted by and loathe this type of behavior.

Cheers!!!

 

[Flyer35]

I think it should be up to the poker site to establish a fair and 'flexible' time limit policy and to implement that using AI software. There is absolutely no reason with the software tools available today to have fixed and unwavering time limits.

The software should adjust each player's time limit and reserve time bank according to real-time circumstances. Those who need more time for a particular hand (e.g., final table with big payouts) should get it. Those who are regularly taking all their available time for no good reason should have their limit and reserve time bank cut. If someone is physically or mentally challenged to the point where they actually do need the extra time every hand then the poker site should provide a means for them to apply for special consideration.

There should be no need for players to get involved attempting to police something that the poker site software should be handing automatically. These sites make a LOT of money. They should reinvest some of that back into useful software functionality rather than just glitzy bells and whistles.