Poker table banter and cross talk: Viable strategy, or unacceptable behavior?

[DS3]

Does Mr. Kassouf only pick on women?

No, equal opportunity offender!

Kassouf's shtick is to verbally harass any player and in the process delay the hand and therefore the game until people became exasperated. Anyone is fair game. Kassouf is still around and playing, still using the same tactics with what is actually a really limited vocabulary but, thank god, his notoriety peaked with a short span of days at the wsop. People know what's coming if they find themselves at at the same table he is not as 'effective' as he was initially.

Nonetheless, to those who run into him, it's still a grind to sit at the table and deal with his routines.

 

[Marshmalo1994]

Is this type of play a valid strategy in live poker, or was Kassouf's behavior just way out of line and bordering on cheating?

I may be missing something because of the language, but I didn't find his words offensive. He was being really annoying tho.

I wouldn't like to talk or anyone talking to me during a hand anyway.

If he had told her just once it would has been ok I think, but he crossed the line when he kept repeating it.

 

[Emily Trott]

No, equal opportunity offender!

Thank you. However, that isn't how you spell "jackass".

 

[LaNimmer]

This is a tactic, no doubt and he successfully used it to have his opponent fold. Was this borderline cheating or abuse? Yes as well, if his actions were considered acceptable, the dealer and tournament director would not have given him several warnings and finally a penalty. Personally I find this over the top non stop behavior creates a toxic environment. Poker is a thinking game and excessive loud and abusive talk is just unethical as it does not give a person the chance think clearly. Yesterday I was thrown off my CC platinum game as one of our own would not stop throwing things. I finally asked why? He replied that i had beaten him some time before in another game. It is plain and simple bullying. No poker skill about it!

 

[Dmitriy_rus7]

It certainly isn't cheating. But it's borderline harassing and super obnoxious. He seemed to get a penalty for taunting (don't know if that rule is new in WSOP) as he certainly meant to disturb her thinking process. But it seems like an arbitrary rule that is hard to define and implement.

Just like some tournaments have time bank cards maybe every player could get some "shut the fuxk up"-cards they can use on a player they want to silence while thinking. Like three cards to stop the talking that you can use on three different people/moments during a tournament.

Maybe he has Jamie Gold as an idol but just tries to take it one step further:

It obviously works for some people because they seem to lose concentration when the blabbermouths are doing their thing.

yes, it definitely works. This way you can take a person out, you can shoot him down.

 

[Goggelheimer]

Every talk and gesture at the poker table has an intention.
Some are friendly some are not.
Some players use them to get control or leadership at the table.
This even happens in online games with throwables (888, PS, Party) and other things like the “Du nervst!" (GGPoker).
It's a kind of strategy to take the player/s out of their flow or comfort zone where they make optimal decisions.
The same has been seen in chess world championship games.
The punishment was clear, but I have seen other vids of this guy, and he uses this strategy all the time.
Acceptable behavior would not have been punished.

 

[Gutshot Gus]

There are different styles for different people.

If you bust him out of the game you have not got to listen to him.

I think that narcistic people are the most enjoyable for me to deal with. There are ways to get them without them even realizing they have been had. It can actually be quite enjoyable. Most of them are so into their selves that they are not capable of thinking outside of their self-centered bubble.

Sometimes people forget that poker is war. You are sitting at a table and all of your opponents are there to destroy you and take your money.

 

[seiya1989]

There shouldn't be any problem with people talking at the poker tables, as long as I don't disrespect anyone I think it's valid in asboluto, if I don't want to listen to anyone I put on a pair of headphones and that's the end of the problem, cheers!!

 

[Gritz18]

What is your opinion - is this type of play a valid strategy in live poker, or was Kassouf's behavior just way out of line and bordering on cheating?

I believe it will depend a lot on the rules and vision of the tournament organizers, if the player is saying offensive things or trying to unbalance and often irritate his opponents with his behavior, then I don't think it's correct and the organization has to be informed and draw their attention.

On the other hand, I don't see a problem when the player talks too much but is not interfering in the other players' decision-making, like for example the incredible and unparalleled Daniel Negreanu, with his small talk and jokes during the game, he manages to capture a lot of information from his opponents. , without compromising the gameplay.

 

[okeedokalee]

verbal exchanges can lead to tells. Try reading Verbal poker tells, by Zachary Elwood.

 

[hilary antonik filho]

I don't agree with this kind of tactic, although it's very common, I always end up losing concentration, in my opinion it's like online throwables, in my opinion it's unethical

 

[GERSteven]

I wouldn't see it as cheating because you don't have to get involved in it - you have options to defend yourself against it.

Of course it's fun to talk to other people or even make a joke, but I don't think anything else that goes beyond that is very professional.

Personally, I don't like this player at all because of his style and if all or many of them were like that I wouldn't play live poker anymore.

 

[Kinalha]

William Kassouf rose to notoriety during the 2016 WSOP Main Event for his use of verbal tactics to throw his opponents off balance and constant pushing of rules and boundaries. What is your opinion - is this type of play a valid strategy in live poker, or was Kassouf's behavior just way out of line and bordering on cheating?

I have nothing against it, in fact, good players don't care much about it, maybe it affects those who don't feel at the same level as the player or the place where they are sitting. I don't believe you can gain any significant advantage from this. Whenever I see this type of question on the forum, I see how things are different depending on where they happen... here in brazil, I've seen people get punched for much less than what Kassou and Phil do at the tables .

 

[A kiravio]

William Kassouf rose to notoriety during the 2016 WSOP Main Event for his use of verbal tactics to throw his opponents off balance and constant pushing of rules and boundaries. What is your opinion - is this type of play a valid strategy in live poker, or was Kassouf's behavior just way out of line and bordering on cheating?

Talking a lot, starting discussions with the aim of irritating or distracting the opponent from what he actually has to do, I think it can be a (really vile) tactic to give the opponents another occupation time to take advantage. I wouldn't agree with this tactic being supported in a live game, but sometimes it happens.
😃😃😃 (funny, I really need a vip point too 😉)

 

[MK_]

Talking a lot, starting discussions with the aim of irritating or distracting the opponent from what he actually has to do, I think it can be a (really vile) tactic to give the opponents another occupation time to take advantage. I wouldn't agree with this tactic being supported in a live game, but sometimes it happens.
😃😃😃 (funny, I really need a vip point too 😉)

I'm not sure if this thread gives vip points... or maybe they just didn't like my answer lol

 

[Tammy]

I'm not sure if this thread gives vip points... or maybe they just didn't like my answer lol

Oh hmmm...yes, it is supposed to give chips, but it looks like the event isn't triggering properly. I will go through and award chips manually. Thanks for posting that!

 

[MK_]

Oh hmmm...yes, it is supposed to give chips, but it looks like the event isn't triggering properly. I will go through and award chips manually. Thanks for posting that!

Thanks Tammy👍

 

[Tammy]

Verbal tactics are and will always be a valid strategy at a live poker table. The best example I can think of is Daniel Negreanu's style, especially a few years back. That said, if we compare Kassouf's behavior to Negreanu's, the least we can clearly and easily notice is that one is pleasant and the other honestly annoying, hence the staff involvement.

I'm not sure if I can qualify Kassouf's acts as cheating, but he was definitely out of line, repeating the same "childish" rubbish over and over, not even funny, nor smart, just purposely depriving the lady of her focus. A harsher penalty would've been more adequate in my opinion.

I don't want to take too much of any reader's time, so I'll just leave you with this illustration of what I consider legit, funny, smart and acceptable verbal tactics.
What do you think of the last one (#1) ?

Negreanu is simply amazing. Say what you want about the guy, but I LOVE watching him play.

 

[smerald]

First off, I think he’s very annoying lol and would not want to play with him unless he’s a big enough fish!

Second, when someone needs to make a difficult decision you should not be allowed to constantly talk to them so they cannot think. So I do think it was over the line and he should be penalized.

Finally, it is ridiculous that they call the clock on her and they would enforce that when he finally was told to not talk. When is she supposed to think through the decision.. frustrating to watch. I’m sure more frustrating to be on the receiving end of it.

 

[Jedrey]

I think a relaxed conversation is cool and valid, because it's time at the table and poker is also a place to make friends. Between tournaments you always end up finding someone you've already found in other tournaments.

 

[zorro222_zorro222]

I think table talk like what William Kassouf did at the WSOP main event should be allowed and is part of the game if you so choose, it's not my style but he did nothing that warranted a penalty imo. Things like derogatory comments and racial slurs definitely should NOT be allowed but he didn't say or do anything wrong. I understand that it can be annoying for some people and it can get under some people's skin but it should still be part of the game.

 

[iwont20]

Anyone talking this fast in British accent as Kassouf does gets a green light from me. Because I won't be able to understand them either way . I will perceive their talkings as a background noise. So it's fine for me, I guess

 

[najisami]

Negreanu is simply amazing. Say what you want about the guy, but I LOVE watching him play.

At least, he's thousands of light years away from being as annoying as that Brit guy. Don't even wanna say his name .

But I'm actually replying to say that I thought you just started a normal thread, had no idea you were planning to reward our interactions.
But thank you, the topic and the chips are both very nice .

 

[Poker_Mike]

William Kassouf rose to notoriety during the 2016 WSOP Main Event for his use of verbal tactics to throw his opponents off balance and constant pushing of rules and boundaries. What is your opinion - is this type of play a valid strategy in live poker, or was Kassouf's behavior just way out of line and bordering on cheating?

Kassouf is a real expert at table talk.

Plus, he loves to hear his own voice.

I knew he was intentional and very good at table talk when I heard him exclaim, "Nine-high like a boss!"

I have not studied Kassouf enough to be able to discover his tells from his own table talk. But he was usually trying to get players to fold....so that is something I would try to use against a table talker.

 

[Tero]

Head games are fair play if such an opportunity arises. But be prepared for physical abuse if you don't know when to shut up.
That's what I like about online games - I can shut everyone up with just touch of a button.