Daniel72
Legend
Bronze Level
Very inspiring article and also great written, thanks ! It´s always a great and fascinating challenge to make $$$ out of nothing (or a few bucks) like Chris "Jesus" Ferguson once did. $0 ---> $10k I try it too (since yesterday) and after 5 freerolls i´m a proud owner of a $1.70 bankroll. My goal is 1k at the end of the year.
I believe, that anybody can do it and way faster than Ferguson..
:hello:
I believe, that anybody can do it and way faster than Ferguson..
:hello:
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Poker Orifice
And Still...
Platinum Level
Not meant to derail here.. but.. umm.. I think the guy above was referring to satellite MTT's.. not the step sng's.
Stack load of Step3 tickets.. NICE!!!
I had accumulated 10 of them & got zero cashes from them, lol.. last one I used I actually went out in 190th & it paid top189.. lol. (mtt's can be a bytch).
gd artical OZ!
salim271
Legend
Silver Level
Easy, you get a frush against Phil Hellmuth.
BTW, great post, everyone's always like OMG play DD, its nice to see someone coming up with legitimate reasons not to... even though I dont think the variance in DD is as high as many other MTTs, but a BR of ten BIs such as in your example is no where near enough to even think about playing DD.
TheKAAHK
Bubble Punter
Loyaler
The only reason I would suggest playing the DD to a beginner is because it is cheap, only $1, and there is no rake to slowly darain off your BR. Of course, most newer players see these big MTT's on tv and want to jump straight into them and be the next Moneymaker, so I figure if they're already playing MTT's right off the bat, they should at least play a 'soft' tourney with no rake. Also, newer players want action and waiting and grinding out a small BR on .01/.02 is really boring for them. (I say them, but I once was "them" so I know by experience)
And to Poker Orifice: Yeah, after re-reading I noticed that he was referring to MTT satty's. So I guess just take my post as a gloat
. BTW, I'm 0 for 4 with those Step 3 Tickets so far....
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
This might be true. But what's the other thing we know about these newer players? That's right: they go broke a lot.
If all they want to do is splash around, have some fun and pretend they're Chris Moneymaker then gawd knows I don't want to discourage them. After all, we need their dead money to make the poker world go round and the OP isn't really aimed at them. The OP is aimed at people who want to stop going broke and turn whatever small amount they have left into a respectable roll.
Like I discussed above, the Daily Dollar is kind of a thing unto itself given that the field is so soft and it's rake-free. Is it as high variance as a standard tournament? Maybe not. Is it still a MTT and therefore still relatively high variance though? Yes, it is.
And while not everyone will care about this, we have to think about time and $/hr as well. Is it relatively easy to grind out a mincash in the Daily Dollar? Maybe. But how long will that take you? Several hours. How many STTs or ring game hands could have gotten in during the same period? Lots. Which one has the better $/hr return? You'll almost certainly find it's the SnG / ring game.
madtom1337
Rock Star
Silver Level
Cardschat freerolls are probably pretty good for building a BR too, right? And then once you've cashed some dough from those, the real money tourneys with added $$$ to the pool seem pretty +EV? Can't remember if anyone's already said this... Maybe we should keep 'em a secret? Lol... Oh well, too late
Can't remember if anyone's already said this... Maybe we should keep 'em a secret? Lol... Oh well, too late
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Cardschat freerolls are probably pretty good for building a BR too, right? And then once you've cashed some dough from those, the real money tourneys with added $$$ to the pool seem pretty +EV?
Absolutely, things like the Cardschat are fantastic when you're starting out.
As for money added tournaments, just remember that there's a difference between +EV and variance.
B
bigbigbucs
Rock Star
Silver Level
Well I just reread the tread and all the replys.
Like I said in an earlier post i would need to reread this a few times before it sinks in. After reading it a second time with all replys, I took the time to reflect apon my recent games. And yes I do have one game I have become ok at. Although I have also added a second to my practice list when nothing of value is avail. I have scourred the tourny lists looking for my best bang for my buc. And sometimes I just don't see a return worth invest in. As a begginner or noob, even i know enough to watch for a late reg small field in a game i am good at. I am oh so the guy who goes from zereo to hero in about 0 to 60 seconds and reverse all the time. The other day with no br i managed to cash itm a trny buc. Rolled it in a hu won 1.90 went to a couple ring games managed to build it for a bigger hu. then finaly played a 5.25 hu game and won ten bucs. That was this weekend needless to say it's all gone now. Reinvested it right back to the tables. Sound familliuar. So back to grinding some more freerolls till I get another chance. And maybe by then I will have reread this thread again. Thanks.
xdeucesx
Bar Master
Silver Level
im a huge fan of the daily dollar as its not the hardest cash in the world, but just pay attention, ftp does a freeroll into the daily dollar every single day around 5p.m? somewhere between then and 7, id say this freeroll is key to a bankroll bc once your satty'ed in, then who knows what could happen lol
trucker103
Legend
Silver Level
think u need to rethink ur process of br management is all sounds like u can win[ bird] just have to slow down that thought process of hitting the big one it will come in time usually.
i have turned 0 dollars into 100 $ on multiple sites it just dont happen in days seems more u push faster it goes . key is play the games limits ur comfortable in heck been over 2yrs i very rarely step out of my 5/10 cent ring and 2.20 buy ins could be just me im very cautious .
and theres a ton of oppurtunity out there to get ur bankroll at a decent size for free!!
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
LOL - I really hit a nerve with the MTT thing, huh...
It's like I've said above a few times now: if y'all want to play MTTs then go ahead and play MTTs. There's absolutely nothing stopping you. If you've got a full-sized bankroll then the advice not to play MTTs wasn't intended you anyway.
If you don't have a full-size bankroll though then there's simply no way of getting around the fact that MTTs are about as high-variance as poker gets: you're a lot more likely to go busto playing them than you are pretty much any other game.
And if you're winning your seats in them in freeroll satellites then great, and good luck to you - you're also a much more patient person than I, but that's a quality that'll serve you well
It's like I've said above a few times now: if y'all want to play MTTs then go ahead and play MTTs. There's absolutely nothing stopping you. If you've got a full-sized bankroll then the advice not to play MTTs wasn't intended you anyway.
If you don't have a full-size bankroll though then there's simply no way of getting around the fact that MTTs are about as high-variance as poker gets: you're a lot more likely to go busto playing them than you are pretty much any other game.
And if you're winning your seats in them in freeroll satellites then great, and good luck to you - you're also a much more patient person than I, but that's a quality that'll serve you well
madtom1337
Rock Star
Silver Level
Well a lot of new players choose MTTs to be their main game. Probably because they see all the big MTTs on TV, and at the casinos the MTT is usually the main poker thing and the cash games usually start after people donk out of the MTT that's running on that particular night. So it's understandable really, and it's gonna be hard to get people to accept that MTTs are basically like a lottery. I feel like this is a good time to add this particular Harrington quote to the thread:
“Tournaments are basically a lottery,” he said. “Some players are so poor, they’re in the lottery but don’t have a ticket. Maybe the average player has one ticket. A really good player has two or three tickets, and a great one has five or six. But you’re still in a lottery.”
So yeah, playing loads and loads of lotteries when you have more tickets than everyone else can be profitable, particularly if you run good for a few stretches. However, I think it relevant to point out that most of these pros that you see winning the big tournaments all play cash games on a daily basis, and that's where most of their reliable, solid income comes from, and since they're so rich off poker and whatever else, they can afford to enter all the big tournaments and do so and end up winning some because they're great players. These big wins must come as a nice cash injection for the pros, but the pros that are solely MTT players are few and far between. Well, maybe not so much these days, with the amount that are available online. There's certainly a new breed of online players that play solely tournament format. But most of the big names you hear in poker are poker players that play cash day in day out and will enter the big tournaments on top of that.
“Tournaments are basically a lottery,” he said. “Some players are so poor, they’re in the lottery but don’t have a ticket. Maybe the average player has one ticket. A really good player has two or three tickets, and a great one has five or six. But you’re still in a lottery.”
So yeah, playing loads and loads of lotteries when you have more tickets than everyone else can be profitable, particularly if you run good for a few stretches. However, I think it relevant to point out that most of these pros that you see winning the big tournaments all play cash games on a daily basis, and that's where most of their reliable, solid income comes from, and since they're so rich off poker and whatever else, they can afford to enter all the big tournaments and do so and end up winning some because they're great players. These big wins must come as a nice cash injection for the pros, but the pros that are solely MTT players are few and far between. Well, maybe not so much these days, with the amount that are available online. There's certainly a new breed of online players that play solely tournament format. But most of the big names you hear in poker are poker players that play cash day in day out and will enter the big tournaments on top of that.
eberetta1
Legend
Loyaler
Nice post. It is tough nursing that bankroll to start making money for you instead of just making money for the sites. Just as in life each person has to try things that work for them. Again, thanks for relaying the info of your experiences. The don't chase bonuses really hit home. I cashed out at a site while 3 percent away from a bonus. It was not worth losing the hands I was chasing just to meet the bonus with a time constraint.
Elie_Yammine
Visionary
Silver Level
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Glad you guys found it useful
tonyp: unfortunately they're not games I know a whole lot about - though I know I've gotten terminally bored waiting for razz SnGs to fill on Full Tilt. People who've played more on Stars or the Euro networks may be able to give a better answer.
tonyp: unfortunately they're not games I know a whole lot about - though I know I've gotten terminally bored waiting for razz SnGs to fill on Full Tilt. People who've played more on Stars or the Euro networks may be able to give a better answer.