Who is a "professional poker player"?

finaltable1

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Poker players "who spends 8+ hours a day playing cards" named "grinders" or not?
Is grinders=pro?
On my mind pro must not play every day all his life, but he must be able to choose the best tournament for yourself and play it as efficiently as possible.

I will ignore obvious mistake and will concentrate on this phrase of your post " he must be able to choose the best tournament"

Tell me, from my point of view, which I have described in my post above... will this "best tournament" do something useful for the society, maybe something new to participants? For participants even football is better from such point of view, because humans are running = physical activity=good for the body. While poker pro is just sitting and starring at the cards/table/opponents. Terrible time spending. Whole horde of poker players, so called pros or grinders or whatever are nothing but parasites for the society in general. These human beings create no useful product for society and also do psychological damage to themselves. You can try to say something in defence, but before you do that - think objectively, just try to think as independent observer, not as poker player and cardschat user.:ciao::wavey:
 
Pokerstudy

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I will ignore obvious mistake and will concentrate on this phrase of your post " he must be able to choose the best tournament"

Tell me, from my point of view, which I have described in my post above... will this "best tournament" do something useful for the society, maybe something new to participants? For participants even football is better from such point of view, because humans are running = physical activity=good for the body. While poker pro is just sitting and starring at the cards/table/opponents. Terrible time spending. Whole horde of poker players, so called pros or grinders or whatever are nothing but parasites for the society in general. These human beings create no useful product for society and also do psychological damage to themselves. You can try to say something in defence, but before you do that - think objectively, just try to think as independent observer, not as poker player and cardschat user.:ciao::wavey:

Trying to understand this logic..playing football per down and being tackled is about as equivalent as getting into a car accident physically, and you do it over and over and over..yet... Poker is bad for your body?
Poker stimulates your mind.
I personally think football is one of the most insane things anyone can do to their body, just ask Bo Jackson that was actually a superstar at the game what his opinion of the game is lol

I can understand your logic on being obsessed with the game, there should definitely be a work/life balance, just like everything in life.
 
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Bnobob

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I will ignore obvious mistake and will concentrate on this phrase of your post " he must be able to choose the best tournament"

Tell me, from my point of view, which I have described in my post above... will this "best tournament" do something useful for the society, maybe something new to participants? For participants even football is better from such point of view, because humans are running = physical activity=good for the body. While poker pro is just sitting and starring at the cards/table/opponents. Terrible time spending. Whole horde of poker players, so called pros or grinders or whatever are nothing but parasites for the society in general. These human beings create no useful product for society and also do psychological damage to themselves. You can try to say something in defence, but before you do that - think objectively, just try to think as independent observer, not as poker player and cardschat user.:ciao::wavey:


i love Sports.
I was a Nato Brazilian football professional!
I had an injury very early at the age of 20; I had to retire from any sport I want to run! today with Poker we Rings game! I can feel like I'm free again:bandit::icon_shak:icon_boun:jd4:
 
Pokerstudy

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Oh never mind you are talking about Soccer:)

Well, irregardless - to call poker players parasites and consider soccer players special just because they run and kick a ball is pretty damn ridiculous from my point of view lol
 
qWald0

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A professional player is a person who has poker as their main income.

Profit of the average poker player A player with a consistently positive result, 2-7BB / 100h at low limits - from 0.50 to 6 dollars. If you play 60 minutes at two tables, you can play 110-150 hands. This means that at the minimum limit, the player is able to earn up to $ 10.50 per hour.
 
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1sunchin

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I will ignore obvious mistake and will concentrate on this phrase of your post " he must be able to choose the best tournament"

Tell me, from my point of view, which I have described in my post above... will this "best tournament" do something useful for the society, maybe something new to participants? For participants even football is better from such point of view, because humans are running = physical activity=good for the body. While poker pro is just sitting and starring at the cards/table/opponents. Terrible time spending. Whole horde of poker players, so called pros or grinders or whatever are nothing but parasites for the society in general. These human beings create no useful product for society and also do psychological damage to themselves. You can try to say something in defence, but before you do that - think objectively, just try to think as independent observer, not as poker player and cardschat user.:ciao::wavey:
I agree with you, but I'm said about pro not from point of view useful for mankind his play or not. I'm said only about how pro earn money for his life. Although we can say that any sport does not bring much benefit to humanity, whether it is chess, snooker, golf or football. And these types of activities can also include movies, drawing pictures, music, and all art in general. As I understand it, the purpose of these types of human activities is to help people relax from their daily work.
 
1sunchin

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Why can't it be both?
Cause playing serious tournament is serious work, that can last few days in a row. And as every serious work, it need serious preparation. If you can work daily on your main job and prepare to serious tournament at same time - nice, But do it regularly and constantly is very hard on my mind.
 
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caracaski220

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To me a professional poker player is someone who makes a living palying poker. I am not talking only about tourneys. I learned in Vegas and saw several player who made at it. They
were disciplined and left after certain parameters of profits or loss were met. They expected to make a big blind per hour .Some at 2/5 others at 100/200, but htat was their mnimum goal.
 
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They are playing and earn . It is they are work and they have tournaments in many countries.
 
Zorba

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Cause of this is you live in Australia but infonazar in Ukraine - and $250/week enough for him, but not for you:p.
It would also depend if a pro is online only or live or a mix of both, if playing live professionally you would have to add transport and away from home costs, like airfares and accommodation and meals.

I left out something important earlier that a pro must also have, tournament buy ins.

;)
 
finaltable1

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Trying to understand this logic..playing football per down and being tackled is about as equivalent as getting into a car accident physically, and you do it over and over and over..yet... Poker is bad for your body?
Poker stimulates your mind.
I personally think football is one of the most insane things anyone can do to their body, just ask Bo Jackson that was actually a superstar at the game what his opinion of the game is lol

I can understand your logic on being obsessed with the game, there should definitely be a work/life balance, just like everything in life.


Well, first of all I would like to remind you that football was invented in England(United Kingdom of Great Britain). It's the game (originally) played by gentlemen, and the main rules say that the the foot kicks the ball, and no hands involved. This is the objective truth. If you live in the country where football is the *rugby style* game where players are using their hands to carry the ball and use muscles instead of ball control and technique then i believe that something is wrong with logic that says that this game is "FOOTBALL" :ahhhhh: It's kind of logic that is being used when someone is bombing for peace and trying to bring democracy from the place where it has never existed in reality but always exists as a paper myth. That's I believe objective logic(opinion of a independent observer if you wish). Other types of logic also have the right to exist, subjective opinions can't be cancelled or ignored, just because they represent some point of view. However such points of view might have little or no weight, being far away from the truth.

In my post I've compared two not really good things = football and poker. Football is better because you're using your body, you're running, sweating and so on. When we're playing poker we're just sitting = worst type of activity ever. IF we'll think about so called "mind stimulation". Well, poker arithmetic is good for 13-15 y.o. kids, and more to that - you can easily remember main things so you won't even have to calculate odds/outs. After first couple of months playing poker you will quit thinking thoughts like "hey i have 2 spades, 2 more on the flop, 13 in total, so what are my chances to hit the flush on turn or river" - this process will be automated. Rest of the information and signals - it will also be automated during some period of time. SO what kind of progress we're talking about when we're discussing poker pro? THe only thing we can talk about is his bankroll and maybe rank, that's all. Is it useful for society?

Some person compared the poker table with a one seat bicycle, 6 clowns are riding it and during their ride they're playing pick-pocketing tournament with each other, there is a referee in their tourney and they have to pay him a fee. Each clown is trying to look smart and nice so that the referee will give him more points. But the truth is that the referee always wins, and clowns have red noses, such is truth of this game for all participants. ANd for the independent observer who isn't involved in the game it all looks like some stupid circus where 7 clowns are wasting their life time doing nothing useful for society in general and for themselves as a group.

Bicycle owner = poker site or casino = the one who always makes money. It's nice for such business owner to have several such referees, tens of bikes and hundreds of clowns willing to participate. Owner can launch this and enjoy the rake without taking part in the circus. He's a winner. While all other participants are pure losers, doesn't matter if they're winning players, losing players, pros, grinders - it all doesn't matter, they're just different types of losers.

It's a bit sad that such word as propaganda is being replaced today with different words like brand, PR, advertisement and so on. Propaganda explains why poker is cool, it explained years ago why smoking cigarettes is cool, why throwing another $1000 on new smartphone each year is cool.

If something makes you feel cool and you're paying money/time for this, and suddenly you behave like a fan (short of fanatic) maybe it's better to stop and think about real positive and negative sides of what you're doing? I mean some real objective thinking basing on facts, without playing football with hands.
 
finaltable1

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I agree with you, but I'm said about pro not from point of view useful for mankind his play or not. I'm said only about how pro earn money for his life. Although we can say that any sport does not bring much benefit to humanity, whether it is chess, snooker, golf or football. And these types of activities can also include movies, drawing pictures, music, and all art in general. As I understand it, the purpose of these types of human activities is to help people relax from their daily work.



Please pay attention to the post that I've typed above.
Majority of well advertised sport activities are designed to help people stay in shape, burn fat, gain muscles and have positive feelings, chess and snooker also add to strategical thinking. While if you're a poker pro then it's better to keep your feelings deep inside during many hours while you're sitting at the table = low physical activity+bad mental state.
 
saha2000

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A professional player is one who shows the right skills and makes a profit every month.
 
1sunchin

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So how much must be bankroll for begin play as pro?

It would also depend if a pro is online only or live or a mix of both, if playing live professionally you would have to add transport and away from home costs, like airfares and accommodation and meals.

I left out something important earlier that a pro must also have, tournament buy ins.

;)
See my quote post above yours and try to ask;)
 
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I think the only true meaning to professional is that you can live from that. Whatever that means. It can be different fot people in different situations. It can take more hours or less. It can be luxury or just paying your bills. You do it for a living, whatever that means in your situation. I think it s tough to win mire than you spend though. Especially when you got no other earnings and rely on that. How many bad weeks can you actually take? What does it do to you if your finances are based on that? I don t even know if i would like to go full pro here, even if i d have the skills. And defintly I don t think i would have the mindset.
 
BigCountryAA

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I'd think it would be someone who makes a living wage playing only poker. (definitely not me).
 
horscht22

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I think a pro is somebody who is able to live from earning money by playing poker. But also not only playing for the money but also for the love for the game ;)
 
Geyomobama

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Someone who solely relies their poker earnings as their source od income. Those that want to make money part time seriously I would call semi pros. The latter, is the category I fall under.
 
1sunchin

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Well, first of all I would like to remind you that football was invented in England(United Kingdom of Great Britain). It's the game (originally) played by gentlemen, and the main rules say that the the foot kicks the ball, and no hands involved. This is the objective truth. If you live in the country where football is the *rugby style* game where players are using their hands to carry the ball and use muscles instead of ball control and technique then i believe that something is wrong with logic that says that this game is "FOOTBALL" :ahhhhh: It's kind of logic that is being used when someone is bombing for peace and trying to bring democracy from the place where it has never existed in reality but always exists as a paper myth. That's I believe objective logic(opinion of a independent observer if you wish). Other types of logic also have the right to exist, subjective opinions can't be cancelled or ignored, just because they represent some point of view. However such points of view might have little or no weight, being far away from the truth.

In my post I've compared two not really good things = football and poker. Football is better because you're using your body, you're running, sweating and so on. When we're playing poker we're just sitting = worst type of activity ever. IF we'll think about so called "mind stimulation". Well, poker arithmetic is good for 13-15 y.o. kids, and more to that - you can easily remember main things so you won't even have to calculate odds/outs. After first couple of months playing poker you will quit thinking thoughts like "hey i have 2 spades, 2 more on the flop, 13 in total, so what are my chances to hit the flush on turn or river" - this process will be automated. Rest of the information and signals - it will also be automated during some period of time. SO what kind of progress we're talking about when we're discussing poker pro? THe only thing we can talk about is his bankroll and maybe rank, that's all. Is it useful for society?

Some person compared the poker table with a one seat bicycle, 6 clowns are riding it and during their ride they're playing pick-pocketing tournament with each other, there is a referee in their tourney and they have to pay him a fee. Each clown is trying to look smart and nice so that the referee will give him more points. But the truth is that the referee always wins, and clowns have red noses, such is truth of this game for all participants. ANd for the independent observer who isn't involved in the game it all looks like some stupid circus where 7 clowns are wasting their life time doing nothing useful for society in general and for themselves as a group.

Bicycle owner = poker site or casino = the one who always makes money. It's nice for such business owner to have several such referees, tens of bikes and hundreds of clowns willing to participate. Owner can launch this and enjoy the rake without taking part in the circus. He's a winner. While all other participants are pure losers, doesn't matter if they're winning players, losing players, pros, grinders - it all doesn't matter, they're just different types of losers.

It's a bit sad that such word as propaganda is being replaced today with different words like brand, PR, advertisement and so on. Propaganda explains why poker is cool, it explained years ago why smoking cigarettes is cool, why throwing another $1000 on new smartphone each year is cool.

If something makes you feel cool and you're paying money/time for this, and suddenly you behave like a fan (short of fanatic) maybe it's better to stop and think about real positive and negative sides of what you're doing? I mean some real objective thinking basing on facts, without playing football with hands.

Please pay attention to the post that I've typed above.
Majority of well advertised sport activities are designed to help people stay in shape, burn fat, gain muscles and have positive feelings, chess and snooker also add to strategical thinking. While if you're a poker pro then it's better to keep your feelings deep inside during many hours while you're sitting at the table = low physical activity+bad mental state.
I'm understand what means "foot_ball", but I'm d't know why "american football" not named "american rugby".
I'm understand that casino get rake anyway and main part of participants finished without prizes and loose own BI and rake money.
I'm understand that all PR about poker directed to growth nuber of game participants and casino rakes.
But I'm not agree that poker not useful for people. First of all player must be healthy to play during hours and few days in a row and every hand make the right decisions. Second - pro player must know GTO, ICM, etc and remember many info like note on villains etc. And I'm not see in chess many phisycal activity also.
 
finaltable1

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I'm understand what means "foot_ball", but I'm d't know why "american football" not named "american rugby".
I'm understand that casino get rake anyway and main part of participants finished without prizes and loose own BI and rake money.
I'm understand that all PR about poker directed to growth nuber of game participants and casino rakes.
But I'm not agree that poker not useful for people. First of all player must be healthy to play during hours and few days in a row and every hand make the right decisions. Second - pro player must know GTO, ICM, etc and remember many info like note on villains etc. And I'm not see in chess many phisycal activity also.

If you're comparing poker and chess then keep in mind that there is no luck factor in chess, it's pure battle of brains and strategy. Chess games usually have timer. 30 minutes or less, sometimes more. Because there is no luck factor then some fool can't beat top ranked players, that's why this game isn't as popular as poker, where luck can decide that some bluffing fool with pocket 78os can beat the pro holding a set with pocket aces on K6A flop, hitting runner-runner 4 and 5 = straight. You can't do that in chess.

Also average game in chess is like 30 minutes, and it's you vs your opponent playing, while in average poker game you'll be waiting = wasting a lot of your lifetime just folding and waiting (if we're talking about live poker).

Chess is not giving any advantage for the fool, smarter beats dumber, that's it. In poker luck can change everything, and stupid one has a chance. That's what attracts millions to poker

All calculations in poker are good enough for 13-15 year old kids. Post flop, pre flop, tourney position, observations = you don't have to be a rocket scientist, don't have to be a genius to calculate such things, all you need is high school diploma to calculate such simple things.

It's hard for the 3rd party like casino or some site to extract profit from smart people who play 1x1 game without any luck factor(chess). But it's easy to extract profit from the horde of fortune seekers.

Like I said before - there is no difference for poker site servers when they host a freeroll for 1000 players or when they're hosting a $55 buy-in game for 1000 players, in both games PC server will consumer several kilowatts of electricity and some internet traffic. People are playing the same game at the same secure servers. But since people are greedy, both players and poker site owners are greedy - they agree to pay the rake. Poker site owners think that it's ok, since they provide the service so they set the rules, and since players accept it - then poker site will go on with it. Poker players don't care about the rake in general, because minimal winnings guarantee ROI+profit, BUT THEY ARE NOT LOOKING FOR MINIMAL WINNINGS DURING REGISTRATION, THEY ALWAYS HOPE TO HIT THE FINAL TABLE.

LOL

First poker site who will start subscription based program instead of rake system will receive tens of millions registrations during first weeks.

1$ per day or 15$ per month subscription and you can play any tournament without rake + open source RNG = such poker site will explode the gambling market and will instantly dethrone pokerstars, partypoker and so on.
 
1sunchin

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If you're comparing poker and chess then keep in mind that there is no luck factor in chess, it's pure battle of brains and strategy. Chess games usually have timer. 30 minutes or less, sometimes more. Because there is no luck factor then some fool can't beat top ranked players, that's why this game isn't as popular as poker, where luck can decide that some bluffing fool with pocket 78os can beat the pro holding a set with pocket aces on K6A flop, hitting runner-runner 4 and 5 = straight. You can't do that in chess.

Also average game in chess is like 30 minutes, and it's you vs your opponent playing, while in average poker game you'll be waiting = wasting a lot of your lifetime just folding and waiting (if we're talking about live poker).

Chess is not giving any advantage for the fool, smarter beats dumber, that's it. In poker luck can change everything, and stupid one has a chance. That's what attracts millions to poker

All calculations in poker are good enough for 13-15 year old kids. Post flop, pre flop, tourney position, observations = you don't have to be a rocket scientist, don't have to be a genius to calculate such things, all you need is high school diploma to calculate such simple things.

It's hard for the 3rd party like casino or some site to extract profit from smart people who play 1x1 game without any luck factor(chess). But it's easy to extract profit from the horde of fortune seekers.

Like I said before - there is no difference for poker site servers when they host a freeroll for 1000 players or when they're hosting a $55 buy-in game for 1000 players, in both games PC server will consumer several kilowatts of electricity and some internet traffic. People are playing the same game at the same secure servers. But since people are greedy, both players and poker site owners are greedy - they agree to pay the rake. Poker site owners think that it's ok, since they provide the service so they set the rules, and since players accept it - then poker site will go on with it. Poker players don't care about the rake in general, because minimal winnings guarantee ROI+profit, BUT THEY ARE NOT LOOKING FOR MINIMAL WINNINGS DURING REGISTRATION, THEY ALWAYS HOPE TO HIT THE FINAL TABLE.

LOL

First poker site who will start subscription based program instead of rake system will receive tens of millions registrations during first weeks.

1$ per day or 15$ per month subscription and you can play any tournament without rake + open source RNG = such poker site will explode the gambling market and will instantly dethrone PokerStars, PartyPoker and so on.
When I post in thread "Is poker Lottery or not?", I wrote "Poker is game like lottery with more ability to influence the result than in usual one."
As your post not about pro poker, you can create new thread about or offer to CC management your business idea about new kind of pokerroom. Also can add subscription for difference levels of buy-in( more BI level - more payment).
GL!
 
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To me, a professional poker player is a player who plays poker like a card, not all butts who play all the cards just to see which cards enter the table.
 
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It's really not difficult.
A pro poker player is someone who makes their living from playing poker

Like any activity that a tiny percentage of people make s living from doing what most dobas a hobby (including pro sportspeople, pro acting (though it's not called that) and being a professional musician, you usually have to be very dedicated and very disciplined to be successful.

Most of the most successful pro cash game players won't be welll known cos they'll likely not want to flaunt how good they are.
 
uri73796

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In my opinion, a professional player is one who has reached the top of poker and has mastered all the basics of poker mastery, is able to correctly assess the situation at the table, calmly relate to tilt and moving.
 
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