4Aces
is watching you
Silver Level
Another program for me to not waste my time on 8)
I doubt any real pro wastes their time with these type of programs
I think that 99% of pros would use these programs, and 100% of online pros do use them. Why wouldn't they? All these programs do is improve your game.
I really don't understand how people can have a problem with these programs. Your simply losing out (and losing money) if you don't use things like this and pokerstove.
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Liveone1
Rock Star
Silver Level
Hmmm, looks good. But to be honest, can't you just pretty much tell the odds/percentages in your head? Sort of common sense. Don't really see the point of knowing that your opponent has exactly 11.4% chance of drawing whatever.
If your playing poker, I think your mind should click on/off so to speak telling you weather or not the odds are in your favor after the bets are made, and the flop has come. Should be able to feel it (not the same as temptation), and bet accordingly.
But, back on topic, the program does look pretty damn good, and it appears to do what its made to do very well. Maybe even too well, and I think it'll lead to reliance.
If your playing poker, I think your mind should click on/off so to speak telling you weather or not the odds are in your favor after the bets are made, and the flop has come. Should be able to feel it (not the same as temptation), and bet accordingly.
But, back on topic, the program does look pretty damn good, and it appears to do what its made to do very well. Maybe even too well, and I think it'll lead to reliance.
ChuckTs
Legend
Silver Level
We raise pf with TT from the CO and get called only by the player on the button who will call with a range of medium suited connectors, pairs up to TT, KQo type hands, and some medium suited aces.
Flop comes K92 with a flush draw.
We bet, he calls.
Assuming he's calling with top pairs, sets, unimproved pairs down to 3s (as a float/for value, whatever), and floats us with the rest of his range because he knows we c-bet that flop with our whole range.
Now do any of the 'old school' players want to tell me how often we're up against each group of hands without going through 45 minutes of combinatory calculations? Just "feel it out" right?
..?????
Well that's because most pros are also mathematical geniuses who have incredible memory and have made these calculations thousands and thousands of times in their heads and it's second nature to them.
You're probably playing low to micro stakes like the rest of us. Pros would never waste their time with low stakes, so by your logic, why should we? right?
Please stop with the silly comments, it's all getting a little ridiculous. This is a hand analysis tool. It's not something you use in-game to roboticize your actions. The computer doesn't say "beep beep beep, this is a raise %100 of the time". It's an analytical tool meant to aid poker players with their game by improving their knowledge.
If you want to discuss the difference between online play and live play, or how much better pros are than players like us, do it somewhere else.
Flop comes K92 with a flush draw.
We bet, he calls.
Assuming he's calling with top pairs, sets, unimproved pairs down to 3s (as a float/for value, whatever), and floats us with the rest of his range because he knows we c-bet that flop with our whole range.
Now do any of the 'old school' players want to tell me how often we're up against each group of hands without going through 45 minutes of combinatory calculations? Just "feel it out" right?
..?????
I doubt any real pro wastes their time with these type of programs
Well that's because most pros are also mathematical geniuses who have incredible memory and have made these calculations thousands and thousands of times in their heads and it's second nature to them.
You're probably playing low to micro stakes like the rest of us. Pros would never waste their time with low stakes, so by your logic, why should we? right?
Please stop with the silly comments, it's all getting a little ridiculous. This is a hand analysis tool. It's not something you use in-game to roboticize your actions. The computer doesn't say "beep beep beep, this is a raise %100 of the time". It's an analytical tool meant to aid poker players with their game by improving their knowledge.
If you want to discuss the difference between online play and live play, or how much better pros are than players like us, do it somewhere else.
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ChuckTs
Legend
Silver Level
zachvac
Legend
Bronze Level
"Originally Posted by ChuckTs
Oh, so you can calculate the combinations of sets and compare them mathematically the combos of flushes/overpairs/top pair hands respectively on the fly?"
After playing for the last 35 years i'd say yes i can,maybe not like your new fangled program.....but I can hold my own with anyone.
Bubba24
lol at not answering the question. Holding your own with anyone has nothing to do with calculating combinations. And as for people comparing this to online play, this is not used in-game, so can be used for live play just as with online play. You don't understand the program, you don't want to understand the program, and since you can't understand it just seem to think you're too good for it. But that's fine, go ahead and stay where you're at skill-wise while all the other players are getting better. You're good enough and can hold your own with anyone, so you don't need to work on your game at all. It's sort of how all the major league baseball players are good enough and thus never hit off a tee or a pitching machine since they can hit off of anyone.
SeanyJ
Legend
Silver Level
God, how can you take advice from someone that bad? I mean look at that, his graph actually goes down in a couple spots that just isn't acceptable. Personally I am going to uninstall this program because this guy clearly has no idea what he is talking about.
ChuckTs
Legend
Silver Level
UM ITS CALLED VERIENSE
SeanyJ
Legend
Silver Level
Variance is a myth! Where have you been man!?
Emperor IX
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
I know a game. Real fat. A bunch of municipal workers :smile:
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Liveone1
Rock Star
Silver Level
I hope you don't need a computer to tell you to fold that. But, depends on your play style. I play tight. All the guy needs is one K in his hand, and you lose with your pocket 10's unless you try to draw a 10 (wouldn't be very smart). Why would you continue to bet (well, you can make tiny calls) if you don't even have top pair? You said he plays mid to top cards right? Don't see the need for a program. With as many unknowns as you just described, and playing against someone like that, fold, find another table. Yup, I feel it.
Plus, the flop didn't do jack for you and your pocket 10's. If you wanted If you wanted to bet that, I'd say your style is too aggressive/risky (for my taste anyway). Wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too many unknowns. Unless your style is aggressive OR (not "and" because there is a difference between aggression and well timed aggression) risky (fishy), if you can't feel that hand should be folded, then poker might not be for you. Even if you do have an aggressive style...this type of situation puts you at risk. So, what the hell would you even need to think about? Just because you nailed a pocket pair doesnt mean JACK until you see that flop. It is then you should know, based on your playing style, your hand, the flop and your borderline maniac opponents style (that you are able to plug into the program) what action to take. For me, its fold, BUT what do I know, I only play freerolls
Also, just because you get the numbers from the program (11%, 5%, 1% chance, etc that they will have whatever)...its POKER. The numbers actually mean NOTHING. Usually, when you slow play someone or end up in a big pot, its because you have cards that a program would say are next to impossible (5%, 2% chance)...same for your opponents. If you bet/play according to this bull, then you'll probably be sorry. You need to pay attention to the players, not these damn programs. They are useless and aiding in crippling your poker game.
How about this, play/watch free/cash money games 5 hours a day for 5 days. While your playing, play tight. For every flop you see (even the ones you folded pf) think of all the possibilities for that flop. Continue with the turn/river. Then, when you realize your doing it subconsciously, start doing that AND pay attention to the way players at your table bet their hands. Though some are harder to figure out than others, you'll find their game. You'll become your own program, and won't lead yourself wrong based on percentages...You'll feel it. My 10 cents.
Jagsti
I'm sweet enough!
Silver Level
This has got to be a level, right?
zachvac
Legend
Bronze Level
I hope you don't need a computer to tell you to fold that. But, depends on your play style. I play tight. All the guy needs is one K in his hand, and you lose with your pocket 10's unless you try to draw a 10 (wouldn't be very smart). Why would you continue to bet (well, you can make tiny calls) if you don't even have top pair? You said he plays mid to top cards right? Don't see the need for a program. With as many unknowns as you just described, and playing against someone like that, fold, find another table. Yup, I feel it.
Plus, the flop didn't do jack for you and your pocket 10's. If you wanted If you wanted to bet that, I'd say your style is too aggressive/risky (for my taste anyway). Wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too many unknowns. Unless your style is aggressive OR (not "and" because there is a difference between aggression and well timed aggression) risky (fishy), if you can't feel that hand should be folded, then poker might not be for you. Even if you do have an aggressive style...this type of situation puts you at risk. So, what the hell would you even need to think about? Just because you nailed a pocket pair doesnt mean JACK until you see that flop. It is then you should know, based on your playing style, your hand, the flop and your borderline maniac opponents style (that you are able to plug into the program) what action to take. For me, its fold, BUT what do I know, I only play freerolls
Also, just because you get the numbers from the program (11%, 5%, 1% chance, etc that they will have whatever)...its POKER. The numbers actually mean NOTHING. Usually, when you slow play someone or end up in a big pot, its because you have cards that a program would say are next to impossible (5%, 2% chance)...same for your opponents. If you bet/play according to this bull, then you'll probably be sorry. You need to pay attention to the players, not these damn programs. They are useless and aiding in crippling your poker game.
How about this, play/watch free/cash money games 5 hours a day for 5 days. While your playing, play tight. For every flop you see (even the ones you folded pf) think of all the possibilities for that flop. Continue with the turn/river. Then, when you realize your doing it subconsciously, start doing that AND pay attention to the way players at your table bet their hands. Though some are harder to figure out than others, you'll find their game. You'll become your own program, and won't lead yourself wrong based on percentages...You'll feel it. My 10 cents.
God I love playing against players like you. Or is floating one of these new age concepts you haven't bothered to learn as well?
As for your comment at the good hands the program saying they're unlikely, you obviously don't get the point of it. YOU PUT THEM ON A RANGE just as you do in real life, only in real life you sort of estimate it knowing that pairs are less likely than suited cards are less likely than offsuit. This program does that for you. People who criticize programs like these don't understand a bit what they actually do and then try to sound smart when dismissing them. No program tells you what people have, or even puts opponents on ranges. You have to do that. That's the poker skill that you're talking about having and that everyone has to have even if they want to use the program. The point is you can figure out how often an opponent has certain hands if you think you have a good range nailed down for the villain.
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Liveone1
Rock Star
Silver Level
^ I love players like you more.
I play very very tight, but I switch it up when the time is right. Say what you want about how I play, but it works...very well. Especially against looser/aggressive players who try to push me out of my "comfort zone". I love it. It makes me money. Sharks and Pros are my favorites to play because their experience is sort of their downfall.
Also, thanks for saying I sound intelligent. Much appreciated. I thought I'd let you know though that I fully understand what the program is supposed to do FOR YOU and I do know exactly what I am saying. I also know what your supposed to take into consideration when using these horrible programs. But apparently, you thought you found a loop hole or something in my statement, and you don't understand what I was saying. This sentence is all you need. If your any type of real player, you shouldn't need a program. Simple as that. You can try to defend these pieces of crap all you'd like. I have no problem that you need assistance with your game. FYI most people don't know how to use these things properly, and wonder why they are losing.
BTW I'm not hating. Use this crap if you'd like. Whatever sinks your boat.
Also, I do play freerolls, so what? When I took my little $2.00 (some of what I won in a freeroll) to a table, I left with $10. I must be doing something right. Jeez talk about haters...
I play very very tight, but I switch it up when the time is right. Say what you want about how I play, but it works...very well. Especially against looser/aggressive players who try to push me out of my "comfort zone". I love it. It makes me money. Sharks and Pros are my favorites to play because their experience is sort of their downfall.
Also, thanks for saying I sound intelligent. Much appreciated. I thought I'd let you know though that I fully understand what the program is supposed to do FOR YOU and I do know exactly what I am saying. I also know what your supposed to take into consideration when using these horrible programs. But apparently, you thought you found a loop hole or something in my statement, and you don't understand what I was saying. This sentence is all you need. If your any type of real player, you shouldn't need a program. Simple as that. You can try to defend these pieces of crap all you'd like. I have no problem that you need assistance with your game. FYI most people don't know how to use these things properly, and wonder why they are losing.
BTW I'm not hating. Use this crap if you'd like
. Whatever sinks your boat.Also, I do play freerolls, so what? When I took my little $2.00 (some of what I won in a freeroll) to a table, I left with $10. I must be doing something right. Jeez talk about haters...
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zachvac
Legend
Bronze Level
^ I love players like you more.
I play very very tight, but I switch it up when the time is right. Say what you want about how I play, but it works...very well. Especially against looser/aggressive players who try to push me out of my "comfort zone". I love it. It makes me money. Sharks and Pros are my favorites to play because their experience is sort of their downfall.
So your style works well against all the sharks and pros you find at the penny tables? Lots of sharks and pros there, they could be making sums as large as like an entire dollar an hour.
Agreed 100% with that last sentence. It doesn't play the game for you and you have to already be knowledgable of poker to use it effectively. You give this to a total fish and they won't understand it, they'll act as you said: "there's only a 2% chance, obvious call" when they're assigning a K high as a hand that would stack.
But the bold part is just ignorant. It's not to use while you play, but it will help you learn just as odds/outs charts do. I don't use one but I no longer need to. This tool is to be used when analyzing a previous hand, and seeing in certain situations whether a move is profitable. This is again equivalent to the pro baseball player saying "if you're any type of real player you don't need to hit off a tee every day".
BTW I'm not hating. Use this crap if you'd like
Neither am I, I still don't think you understand what the program does and if you do don't understand how it would be used, but if you don't want to know that's fine. You can continue to use your feel while others are passing you by.
